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| vkmc | \o) | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| vkmc | (o/ | 15:00 |
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| flaper87 | gungts gungts | 15:01 |
| flaper87 | ok people, lets get this meeting started | 15:01 |
| flaper87 | #startmeeting Zaqar | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 17 15:01:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zaqar' | 15:01 |
| * flaper87 still remembers how this thing works | 15:01 | |
| flaper87 | #topic Roll Call | 15:01 |
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| flaper87 | vkmc: cpallares dynarro_ zhiyan ? | 15:01 |
| flaper87 | around ? | 15:01 |
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| cpallares | o/ | 15:01 |
| vkmc | o/ | 15:02 |
| * cpallares is not here | 15:02 | |
| flaper87 | ok, looks like it's just us | 15:02 |
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| flaper87 | #topic Agenda | 15:02 |
| flaper87 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zaqar#Weekly_Zaqar_.28queuing.29_Team_Meeting | 15:02 |
| vkmc | kgriffs? | 15:02 |
| flaper87 | short list, straight items, easy to go through but long | 15:02 |
| flaper87 | we'll start with some of those specs and then continue next week | 15:03 |
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| kgriffs | o/ | 15:03 |
| * flaper87 wanted to say something else but he forgot | 15:03 | |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: hey :D | 15:03 |
| flaper87 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Zaqar#Weekly_Zaqar_.28queuing.29_Team_Meeting | 15:03 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: ^ agenda | 15:03 |
| flaper87 | #topic Persistent Transport https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134567/ | 15:04 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: want to say something ? | 15:04 |
| vkmc | flaper87, of course | 15:04 |
| vkmc | so we have discussed about this addition during the design sessions | 15:04 |
| vkmc | there are several uses cases that we are not covering right now with the WSGI transport | 15:04 |
| vkmc | so having a persistent transport alternative aims to cover those | 15:05 |
| vkmc | I was worried about how coupled is Zaqar's transport with WSGI | 15:05 |
| vkmc | but according flaper87's comments on the spec that shouldn't be a problem | 15:05 |
| vkmc | flaper87, could you explain more how you are expecting that to work? | 15:05 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: sure | 15:05 |
| vkmc | precisely, using WSGI transport as a reference for other transports | 15:06 |
| flaper87 | at the very beginning, many moons ago, we wanted to have a common API layer for *everything* - including the wsgi transport - but that resulted in way too much duplication | 15:06 |
| flaper87 | the idea now is to keep the wsgi transport as-is and implement that common API layer (this is something cpallares worked on) just for persistent transports | 15:07 |
| flaper87 | or well, "message based transports", if you will | 15:07 |
| flaper87 | the wsgi transport is the reference in terms of documentation, implementation, supported endpoints etc | 15:07 |
| flaper87 | and it'll, at least for now, be our recommended transport | 15:07 |
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| vkmc | +1 for that | 15:08 |
| flaper87 | Zaqar offers a RESTful API as its main way of communication | 15:08 |
| flaper87 | I reviewed the spec, it looks good to me. I dropped some comments there | 15:08 |
| flaper87 | the milestone proposed sounds reasonable and I'm happy you're willing to be the primary contact on it | 15:08 |
| vkmc | so this transport addition will depend on the creation of the common API layer | 15:08 |
| flaper87 | does anyone want to jump in as a secondary contact? | 15:08 |
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| flaper87 | vkmc: yes. Oh, btw, you'll have to complete that :P | 15:09 |
| flaper87 | jokes apart, cpallares worked on it | 15:09 |
| vkmc | flaper87, that's what I wanted to know | 15:09 |
| vkmc | :D | 15:09 |
| flaper87 | if she's got time to help completing it, it'd be amazing | 15:09 |
| cpallares | I do want to help | 15:09 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: otherwise, you'll have to | 15:09 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: could you add cpallares as a secondary contact? | 15:09 |
| cpallares | I don't remember exactly what is needed. | 15:09 |
| flaper87 | before she changes her mind | 15:10 |
| vkmc | cpallares told me that she found a dead end on that, or I misunderstood that? | 15:10 |
| flaper87 | :P | 15:10 |
| cpallares | lol | 15:10 |
| flaper87 | probably related to the wsgi thing? | 15:10 |
| * vkmc rush to add cpallares name to the spec | 15:10 | |
| vkmc | probably yes | 15:10 |
| flaper87 | we wanted to change that when cpallares was working on that cross-api thingy | 15:10 |
| flaper87 | #action vkmc to add cpallares as a secondary contact | 15:10 |
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| flaper87 | #action cpallares and vkmc to coordinate on the things to do on that spec | 15:11 |
| flaper87 | #action kgriffs to say something ;) | 15:11 |
| flaper87 | #undo | 15:11 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x20ea210> | 15:11 |
| flaper87 | #action kgriffs to say something related to that spec ;) | 15:11 |
| kgriffs | so, I don't see any mention of data encoding in the spec | 15:11 |
| * kgriffs does that | 15:11 | |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: good point | 15:11 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: ^ | 15:11 |
| kgriffs | i would like to have that decided before approving | 15:11 |
| vkmc | good point | 15:12 |
| kgriffs | btw, I looked at apache avro | 15:12 |
| flaper87 | We talked about msgpack, protobuf and I've heard capnprot is good | 15:12 |
| kgriffs | https://avro.apache.org/docs/current/#compare | 15:12 |
| vkmc | we were considering apache avro, protobuf and msgpack | 15:12 |
| flaper87 | http://kentonv.github.io/capnproto/ | 15:12 |
| flaper87 | it's like protobuf with steroids | 15:12 |
| * kgriffs clicks | 15:12 | |
| flaper87 | not sure | 15:12 |
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| vkmc | ok, the website already gained my attention | 15:12 |
| vkmc | cerealization protocol lol | 15:13 |
| vkmc | doge approves | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: mind doing a small research and adding it to the spec ? | 15:13 |
| vkmc | flaper87, sure thing | 15:13 |
| flaper87 | ok | 15:13 |
| cpallares | vkmc: Who can resist that infinitely faster sticker? | 15:13 |
| kgriffs | #link http://jparyani.github.io/pycapnp/ | 15:13 |
| vkmc | cpallares, someone without feelings | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | fwiw, avro i don't think will work for us | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | unless we do multipart mime or something | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | since you have to have a spec defined in advance, and we want to treat the message body as "spec-less" or "we don't care" | 15:14 |
| kgriffs | i could be wrong, but that is my first impression | 15:15 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +2 | 15:15 |
| flaper87 | ok, lets wait for vkmc feedback on that | 15:15 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: it'd be great to have one proposed and the others as alternatives | 15:15 |
| vkmc | flaper87, sounds good to me | 15:15 |
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| flaper87 | coolio | 15:15 |
| flaper87 | lets move on | 15:15 |
| kgriffs | what are the evaluation criteria? | 15:15 |
| kgriffs | I'd like to see each option scored by criteria | 15:16 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: dude, you're giving me more work, I was offloading everything on vkmc | 15:16 |
| flaper87 | :P | 15:16 |
| kgriffs | :) | 15:16 |
| flaper87 | Lets put some critirias on an etherpad | 15:16 |
| flaper87 | right after the meeting so that vkmc can work based on that | 15:16 |
| kgriffs | i think it will actually make things easier to eval and communicate the decision | 15:16 |
| vkmc | let's do that yeah | 15:16 |
| vkmc | flaper87, woooooork! | 15:17 |
| flaper87 | Roughly I think dynamicity, performance and adoption | 15:17 |
| kgriffs | cool, that was the only thing I had to add re that spec | 15:17 |
| flaper87 | As in support in the different languages and whatnot | 15:17 |
| vkmc | perf on serializing/deserializing | 15:17 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: can you create the etherpad? | 15:17 |
| flaper87 | drop it here when you do, we'll all contribute to it | 15:17 |
| kgriffs | right. also keep in mind that javascript in the browser would be really nice to support | 15:17 |
| vkmc | sure | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: I kinda think that's a must | 15:18 |
| kgriffs | since horizon wants push notifications | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | since browsers are one of the things driving this websocket work | 15:18 |
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| vkmc | we could complete the etherpad during the open discussion | 15:18 |
| vkmc | or later | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | #action vkmc to evaluate serialization protocols for the websocket transport | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | roger | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | lets move on | 15:18 |
| flaper87 | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129192/ Notifications | 15:19 |
| flaper87 | As far as new features go, our priorities for this cycle are Notifications and persistent transport | 15:19 |
| flaper87 | everything blocking those 2 blueprints should be re-schedule after k-1 | 15:19 |
| flaper87 | flwang: and vkmc wrote some comments in that spec | 15:20 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129192/ | 15:20 |
| flaper87 | I think the most critical one is what the endpoint should look like | 15:20 |
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| vkmc | IMO notifications should be done after queue/topics migration | 15:21 |
| flaper87 | The currently proposed endpoint is `/v2/subscribe/ | 15:21 |
| vkmc | I don't like that idea but... | 15:21 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: we might make it work in parallel | 15:21 |
| vkmc | flaper87, yeah, that would work too | 15:21 |
| flaper87 | bet lets give the s/queue/topic/ thing a week to gather feedback | 15:21 |
| zhiyan | sorry, i'm late! | 15:21 |
| flaper87 | zhiyan: np | 15:21 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: should we think more in terms of resources when designing the URLs? | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | I have to update that spec and add an subscription request example to it | 15:22 |
| kgriffs | i.e., subscribe --> subscriptions | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: wait, we just found a typo in the spec | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | :P | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | /v2/subscritions/{subscription}/ | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | then below | 15:22 |
| kgriffs | kewl | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | /v2/subscribe | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: comment ? :D | 15:23 |
| flaper87 | otherwise I'll forget | 15:23 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: in other words, I totally agree with you | 15:23 |
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| kgriffs | kk | 15:24 |
| kgriffs | I can comment | 15:24 |
| flaper87 | Any comments on the milestone ? | 15:24 |
| flaper87 | It's K-2 because k-1 seems to be too close to have something working | 15:25 |
| flaper87 | I'd like to give this thing enough time for discussion and it should definitely have more iterations | 15:25 |
| * flaper87 watches a butterfly passing by | 15:26 | |
| * flaper87 starts following that butterfly | 15:26 | |
| * flaper87 starts singing barney's songs | 15:26 | |
| * flaper87 is jumping around | 15:26 | |
| kgriffs | no, wait, stop! | 15:26 |
| * kgriffs can't stand the barney | 15:26 | |
| * flaper87 stops and slaps himself 4 times | 15:26 | |
| * kgriffs would rather go see a dentist | 15:27 | |
| * flaper87 knew that would get kgriffs attention | 15:27 | |
| flaper87 | LOOOL | 15:27 |
| kgriffs | so... | 15:27 |
| kgriffs | seems like the big thing to figure out on this is how to push the notifications | 15:27 |
| kgriffs | because we need some sort of worker pool that is out-of-band from the web server, right? | 15:27 |
| flaper87 | mmh, actually, I thought that was clear | 15:27 |
| flaper87 | :/ | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | ah wait | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | ok yeah | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | sorry, I read publishing | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | (facepalm) | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: correct | 15:28 |
| *** superdan is now known as dansmith | 15:28 | |
| kgriffs | i don't see mention of worker pool in the spec | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | because I wanted to avoid workers | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | :/ | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | I took a look at how ceilo does it | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | they use eventlet + calls to the many webhooks | 15:28 |
| flaper87 | I'm also doing some research on what the best way to do this is | 15:29 |
| kgriffs | oh, so they have eventlet worker pool that lives inside the web server? | 15:29 |
| flaper87 | thing is, we need to communicate with the workers and using a message broker is a no-go her | 15:29 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yup | 15:29 |
| kgriffs | (conceptually) | 15:29 |
| flaper87 | AFAICT | 15:29 |
| flaper87 | s/her/here/ | 15:29 |
| kgriffs | hey, I know, let's use celery | 15:29 |
| * kgriffs runs and hides | 15:29 | |
| flaper87 | OMG, (plop) | 15:30 |
| vkmc | lol | 15:30 |
| kgriffs | aaanyway, yeah, I think we should sort that out and add talk about it in the spec | 15:30 |
| flaper87 | I don't think each backend should have a specific implementation to communicate with the workers | 15:30 |
| flaper87 | ok | 15:30 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: I feel like we should define the "worker" model, whatever that is | 15:31 |
| flaper87 | #action to clarify how notifications will be pushed to clients | 15:31 |
| kgriffs | but then you can load drivers for different targets | 15:31 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: wait, now that you mention that, I think I did say taskflow there | 15:31 |
| kgriffs | (webhook, email, sms, etc.) | 15:31 |
| flaper87 | oh I didn't | 15:31 |
| flaper87 | anyway, taskflow has this worker model based on eventelt that we could probably use | 15:31 |
| kgriffs | oh. | 15:32 |
| kgriffs | would it be overkill? | 15:32 |
| kgriffs | the workflow is like 1 step long | 15:32 |
| flaper87 | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/taskflow/engines.html#parallel | 15:32 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: you could create 1 task and just execute | 15:32 |
| flaper87 | execute it* | 15:32 |
| flaper87 | I'm still doing some research there | 15:32 |
| flaper87 | #undo | 15:32 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x184ad90> | 15:32 |
| flaper87 | #action flaper87 to clarify how notifications will be pushed to clients | 15:32 |
| flaper87 | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/taskflow/engines.html#parallel | 15:33 |
| flaper87 | damnit | 15:33 |
| kgriffs | ok | 15:33 |
| flaper87 | anyway | 15:33 |
| kgriffs | I just don't see what taskflow provides over just using a simple python queue and eventlet/gevent/tulip pool | 15:33 |
| * flaper87 thinks every bot command should've an id | 15:33 | |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: exactly that, it has support for gevent, eventlet and tulip (?) already | 15:34 |
| flaper87 | we don't have to write it | 15:34 |
| kgriffs | oic | 15:34 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: does it handle retries? | 15:34 |
| flaper87 | yup | 15:34 |
| kgriffs | ok, gtk | 15:34 |
| flaper87 | it's basically celery^W | 15:35 |
| kgriffs | lol | 15:35 |
| flaper87 | ;) | 15:35 |
| flaper87 | ok, I'll update the spec | 15:35 |
| kgriffs | in-process celery, anyway | 15:35 |
| flaper87 | one thing before we move on, I'd really like to get both specs merged this week (persistent transport and notifications) so, lets keep an eye on those | 15:35 |
| flaper87 | I don't like to chase people | 15:36 |
| vkmc | before we wrap out this notifications discussion | 15:36 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: I'd like to see a little info on the pros/cons of doing it in-process (ceilometer way) vs. a dedicated worker pool. | 15:36 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: sure thing | 15:36 |
| vkmc | kgriffs, any suggestions on how we can manage the subscriptions? | 15:36 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: 'sup ? | 15:36 |
| vkmc | considering the fact that queues/topics will be removed | 15:36 |
| vkmc | does it make sense to have another endpoint for those? | 15:36 |
| flaper87 | after putting some extra thoughts on this, I'd probablt just go with what's proposed because it works with both queues and topics | 15:38 |
| vkmc | ok, sounds good | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | and it separates messaging and notifications | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | at least logically | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: kgriffs thoughts? | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | cpallares: ^ everyone ^ | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | someone up there? ^ | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | someone down there? ^ | 15:38 |
| flaper87 | Gandalf ^ ? | 15:39 |
| flaper87 | Sauron ^ ? | 15:39 |
| vkmc | yeah, considering the fact that we are not relying in containers anymore | 15:39 |
| vkmc | I think that is the best approach | 15:39 |
| flaper87 | coolio | 15:39 |
| vkmc | I'm a bit concened on how we are going to keep it updated thoguh | 15:39 |
| vkmc | though* | 15:39 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: what do you mean? | 15:39 |
| flaper87 | what do we have to keep updated ? | 15:39 |
| vkmc | I mean, the mappings queue/topic - subscriber | 15:39 |
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| flaper87 | vkmc: ah well, mmh, I think that's the user's responsibility | 15:41 |
| vkmc | k k | 15:41 |
| jeffrey4l | Should we consider the service crash when notification is working? May part of the subscriber get the message and others not. | 15:41 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: you mean, if a queue is deleted we should delete the subscription? | 15:41 |
| flaper87 | am I following you ? | 15:41 |
| vkmc | yup | 15:41 |
| vkmc | you are | 15:41 |
| vkmc | if a client dies, the subscription should be removed as well | 15:41 |
| vkmc | and that kind of scenarios | 15:41 |
| flaper87 | jeffrey4l: totally, that will have to consider but I prefered to leave that part out of the spec and make it part of the review | 15:41 |
| jeffrey4l | ok. | 15:42 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: yeah, for the permanent ones we'll leave that to the user | 15:42 |
| vkmc | k | 15:42 |
| vkmc | :) | 15:42 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: for the client ones, I think it'll be easier. Once the push to the client fails, we can remove it | 15:42 |
| flaper87 | :D | 15:42 |
| vkmc | sounds great | 15:42 |
| vkmc | thanks for clearing up | 15:43 |
| kgriffs | wait | 15:43 |
| flaper87 | np, my pleasure | 15:43 |
| flaper87 | OMG, kgriffs WHAT ? | 15:43 |
| flaper87 | :P | 15:43 |
| vkmc | lol | 15:43 |
| kgriffs | I think jeffrey4l's question has bearing on whether we use an in-process task queue for notifications | 15:43 |
| jeffrey4l | are we talking some thing like `auto_delete` in rabbitmq? | 15:43 |
| kgriffs | or does taskflow store the "task" in a DB? | 15:43 |
| kgriffs | so it can survive a process crash | 15:43 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: I think it does, in a sqlite db | 15:44 |
| flaper87 | I'm not sure, though | 15:44 |
| kgriffs | ok, that is definitely something to verify | 15:44 |
| flaper87 | but even though, I think that's something we can keep track of | 15:44 |
| zhiyan | iirc, it could use a dedicated db | 15:44 |
| flaper87 | that's why I said we should keep it in mind for reviews | 15:44 |
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| kgriffs | flaper87: well, I just don't want to pick something that we know off the bat can't handle a process crash. | 15:45 |
| flaper87 | if it can use a sqlite db to keep track of things, I'd rather have 1 for each worker than a centralized one | 15:45 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: totally, +@ | 15:45 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: totally, +2 | 15:45 |
| flaper87 | I'll dig more and make it explicit in the spec | 15:45 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: also, performance/scaling is going to be an important evaluation criteria | 15:45 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: right, but that also depends a lot on the task itself | 15:46 |
| flaper87 | I mean, the things the task does | 15:46 |
| flaper87 | anyway, we basically ate our time | 15:46 |
| flaper87 | we've like 14 mins left | 15:46 |
| kgriffs | sure, it depends on a lot of things. :p | 15:46 |
| flaper87 | at least we know whom to blame | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | :P | 15:47 |
| vkmc | we always know whom to blame | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | anything else on this topic? | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | I'll update the spec and get back to you tomorrow looking for more feedback | 15:47 |
| jeffrey4l | just saw taskflow has a persistence backend. including impl_dir impl_sqlalchemy impl_zookeeper | 15:47 |
| flaper87 | jeffrey4l: +2 | 15:47 |
| * flaper87 remembers reading something | 15:47 | |
| flaper87 | we also need to dig into how difficult it'll make deploying zaqar | 15:48 |
| zhiyan | agreed, and operation | 15:48 |
| flaper87 | We're already splitting management/data layers | 15:48 |
| flaper87 | which in most cases will require 2 different DB instances | 15:49 |
| exploreshaifali_ | yes ;) | 15:49 |
| flaper87 | There are several more specs to review so I'll probably ping you all throughout the week to get your feedback on those | 15:50 |
| flaper87 | No spec, no patches, no reviews, no progress | 15:50 |
| flaper87 | the sooner we agree/merge those, the better | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | kk. I have to write some specs too | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | I'll get that done ASAP | 15:50 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: yup, please, ping me (and everyone) as soon as they're up | 15:50 |
| kgriffs | fwiw, they are: | 15:50 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: thanks a lot | 15:50 |
| * flaper87 reads carefully | 15:51 | |
| kgriffs | redis pool, large-scale load testing/locust, and TempURL thingy | 15:51 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: ahhh, many important things there. Are you going to be the main contact for all of them ? | 15:51 |
| kgriffs | yes, but I will need some help getting them implemented | 15:52 |
| flaper87 | if not, lets find someone interested in helping you out | 15:52 |
| flaper87 | awesome | 15:52 |
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| flaper87 | I'm sure jeffrey4l wants too | 15:52 |
| * flaper87 just volunteered jeffrey4l | 15:52 | |
| flaper87 | ah and kragniz too | 15:52 |
| flaper87 | I'm sure of that | 15:52 |
| flaper87 | anyway, lets have some open discussion | 15:52 |
| jeffrey4l | my pleasure ;p | 15:52 |
| flaper87 | #topic Open Discussion | 15:53 |
| flaper87 | I just have 1 thing to say... actually 2 | 15:53 |
| flaper87 | The first one is that besides the specs and things we have to work on, I'd like us to focus *a lot* on tackling technical debt | 15:53 |
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| flaper87 | I did a full bug-list triage last week to clear some bugs out | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | there are still many and there are many TODOs/FIXMEs in the code base | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | please, grep the code base and help tackling those | 15:54 |
| vkmc | +1 | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | jeffrey4l has been doing an amazing bug-squashing series of patches | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | so, thanks a lot jeffrey4l | 15:54 |
| kgriffs | I haven't checked the ML list yet, but any update on "layers" from the TC? | 15:54 |
| flaper87 | So, again, focus on technical debt and features | 15:55 |
| flaper87 | but give technical debt enough priority | 15:55 |
| flaper87 | the second thing is: | 15:55 |
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| flaper87 | You're all amazing, I had an amazing time with you all in Paris and I'm sad that some of you couldn't make it there. The project would be nothing without you so please, keep it up and lets keep it going | 15:55 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: no updates so far | 15:56 |
| flaper87 | just the TC voting by numbers thread | 15:56 |
| jeffrey4l | Another notification use case: should we support work queues like http://www.rabbitmq.com/tutorials/tutorial-two-python.html | 15:56 |
| flaper87 | I haven't attended TC meetings lately so it's probably been discussed | 15:56 |
| kgriffs | I'd like to second that; we have a totally awesome crew and let's keep doing innovative work | 15:56 |
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| flaper87 | jeffrey4l: some of those patterns are in the TODO dreams for Zaqar :P | 15:57 |
| flaper87 | jeffrey4l: but yeah, I think we would in a future | 15:57 |
| vkmc | :D greatest team ever | 15:57 |
| flaper87 | please, do feel free to write specs, etherpads and start discussions | 15:57 |
| jeffrey4l | flaper87, great | 15:57 |
| flaper87 | we love to discuss things even if they can't happen yet | 15:57 |
| kgriffs | oh, one last thing | 15:58 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: 2 mins | 15:58 |
| kgriffs | everyone let's keep improving our docs | 15:58 |
| vkmc | +1! | 15:58 |
| kgriffs | that will really help adoption | 15:58 |
| kgriffs | and... | 15:58 |
| vkmc | I also have a last thing: I chatted with Boris from Rally earlier today , he asked me if we are willing to add rally job to zaqar check pipeline | 15:58 |
| flaper87 | kgriffs: +2 | 15:58 |
| kgriffs | the wiki page probably needs to be updated | 15:58 |
| vkmc | (we can discuss later) | 15:58 |
| flaper87 | vkmc: last time we all talked about it, I think we agreed on doing that | 15:59 |
| vkmc | k k | 15:59 |
| kgriffs | esp. "state of the project" | 15:59 |
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| flaper87 | kk, gtg | 15:59 |
| vkmc | +1 kgriffs | 15:59 |
| flaper87 | great meeting, catch you later | 15:59 |
| flaper87 | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| kgriffs | rock on | 15:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 17 15:59:29 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| vkmc | ttyl! thanks! | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-11-17-15.01.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-11-17-15.01.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-11-17-15.01.log.html | 15:59 |
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| krotscheck | #startmeeting Storyboard | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 17 16:00:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 16:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 16:00 |
| krotscheck | Hey hey! | 16:00 |
| krotscheck | Anyone other than ttx here? | 16:00 |
| *** baoli_ has joined #openstack-meeting-3 | 16:01 | |
| krotscheck | ‘cause if not we’ll just do a summary of what I did last week. | 16:01 |
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| * kashyap lurking here as someone interested in Storyboard's functionality | 16:01 | |
| krotscheck | Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Agenda | 16:01 |
| *** mestery is now known as mestery_afk | 16:01 | |
| krotscheck | Thanks, kashyap! | 16:01 |
| krotscheck | #topic Urgent Items | 16:02 |
| krotscheck | #topic Urgent Items: Infra Migration | 16:02 |
| * krotscheck peers at meetingbot | 16:02 | |
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| krotscheck | ttx: I think meetbot died. | 16:02 |
| ttx | krotscheck: you killed it! | 16:02 |
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| krotscheck | Dead! | 16:03 |
| * krotscheck is good at killing bots | 16:03 | |
| * ttx checks | 16:03 | |
| krotscheck | Well, while I have everyone’s attention. | 16:03 |
| krotscheck | Let’s make all the decisions that we don’t want to be recorded. | 16:03 |
| krotscheck | First of all, we’re migrating our auth system to LDAP and refactoring to use OracleDB | 16:03 |
| ttx | Looks like it's still logging: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-11-17-16.00.log.txt | 16:04 |
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| fungi | krotscheck: i think it's working, just not setting channel topics because it lost chanops | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | Gotcha | 16:04 |
| fungi | i can fix it after | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | kk | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | Back to Infra Migration | 16:04 |
| fungi | there was much gnashing of teeth within freenode over the weekend, so not surprising | 16:04 |
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| krotscheck | So fungi and I worked on the migration during the week, and encountered a few other hiccups that we’ve since resolved. | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | Upside: All the things are now migrated, and the script is way more intelligent about de-duplication. | 16:05 |
| fungi | and the import script is incremental now too | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | Downside: We lost about a week or so. | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | Right, that too. | 16:05 |
| fungi | not a week of data, just a week of fiddling and futzing | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | So we can go back and do an incremental migration for stragglers. | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | Either way, infra data has all now been transferred as of… thursday? | 16:06 |
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| krotscheck | And the remaining tasks are to A) fli the bit on launchpad to point at storyboard, and B) Land the various doc updates. | 16:06 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o openstack | 16:07 | |
| ttx | krotscheck: want me to help in the bit flipping ? | 16:07 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Yes please. I don’t actually know what to do there. | 16:07 |
| fungi | or i can too. the sticky wicket will be openstack-ci because it needs to stay open for elastic-recheck use | 16:08 |
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| ttx | Ah. Actually I can't. Damn project doesn't follow the guidelines and didn't abdicate to the ~openstack-admins overlords | 16:08 |
| * fungi can fix that too | 16:08 | |
| krotscheck | fungi: Aren’t you swamped? | 16:08 |
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| ttx | we live in swamps | 16:09 |
| fungi | sure. but i get to choose the swamp | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | That would make ttx an amphibian | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | Or a reptile | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | Point | 16:09 |
| ttx | Just don't cut anything off me to check | 16:09 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so fungi will flip the bit on launchpad, as well as fixing the openstack admin thing. | 16:10 |
| krotscheck | And I will pester people to land the doc updates. | 16:10 |
| fungi | #action fungi flip the bit on launchpad | 16:10 |
| fungi | #action fungi fix the openstack admin thing | 16:10 |
| krotscheck | #action krotscheck Pester people to land storyboard doc updates. | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | #action krotscheck Put migration onto infra agenda for tomorrow. | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion Topics | 16:11 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion Topics (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:11 | |
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| krotscheck | #action krotscheck Draft infra-adoption email. | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | On discussion topics, is there anything someone wants to raise? I don’t personally feel ready to talk about most of these yet. | 16:12 |
| fungi | i know there's at least concern from two jenkins-job-builder core reviewers about lack of e-mail notification for storyboard | 16:13 |
| ttx | fungi: that's good! | 16:13 |
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| ttx | if we incovenience them enough they may RMS it | 16:13 |
| fungi | heh | 16:13 |
| krotscheck | RMS? | 16:13 |
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| fungi | richard m. stallman of course! | 16:14 |
| ttx | Richard M. Stallman -- pun on the legendary story about the printer driver he was inconvenienced enough to fix in open source | 16:14 |
| fungi | (or root mean square maybe) | 16:14 |
| ttx | err free software | 16:14 |
| krotscheck | Oh, gotcha. | 16:14 |
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| krotscheck | Well, they can definitely help :) | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | I did some patch maintenance and other feature work on thursday and friday, so I haven’t been able to get to email. | 16:15 |
| ttx | we rely on inconveniencing people enough for them to help fix storyboard. | 16:15 |
| ttx | did some reviewing today as usual | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | Well, zaro and I did a tradeoff, I do User Auth for his api, and he does email. | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | And then he went on 2 weeks of vacation (starting today) | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Always appreciated. Your reviews are like clockwork. | 16:16 |
| * krotscheck would be happy if monday morning became the “Review all the things” day. | 16:16 | |
| krotscheck | I’m curious about progress from persia on documentaiton. | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion Topics: Documentation | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion Topics: Documentation (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:17 | |
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| krotscheck | persia: Any progress there? | 16:18 |
| * krotscheck will wait 2 minutes to see if he’s around, and then move on. | 16:18 | |
| krotscheck | Ok, let’s assume he’s not here. | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion Topics: PM Awareness | 16:19 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion Topics: PM Awareness (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:19 | |
| krotscheck | rainya isn’t in this room, so I’ll poke her offline to see what her plan is. | 16:20 |
| krotscheck | #action krotscheck Poke rainya about PM awareness work. | 16:20 |
| krotscheck | #topic Discussion Topics: In progress features. | 16:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion Topics: In progress features. (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:20 | |
| krotscheck | ttx: I still don’t know what in-progress-feature-report is. | 16:20 |
| ttx | hmm | 16:21 |
| ttx | "In progress feature import " you mean ? | 16:21 |
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| krotscheck | Right | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | That | 16:22 |
| ttx | I guess that means "ability to import currently incomplete blueprints" | 16:22 |
| ttx | i.e. import blueprints from Launchpad | 16:22 |
| ttx | but only the ones that are in progress, not the completed ones | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | Does launchpad currently have a strong association between bugs and blueprints, or are those separate? | 16:22 |
| ttx | separate tables | 16:23 |
| ttx | I think it's overkill | 16:23 |
| ttx | as projects regularly flush their pile of blueprints so that the "open" ones are relevant | 16:23 |
| ttx | it doesn't sound that much difficult to start from zero | 16:23 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: Is there any good way of linking a blueprint with a ticket? Because if that’s the case we can go grab the associated stories and rewrite the whole kit-n-kaboodle into one big story | 16:24 |
| fungi | i think there's no strict association between thm | 16:24 |
| fungi | them | 16:24 |
| ttx | krotscheck: blueprints have associated bugs | 16:24 |
| *** asahlin has joined #openstack-meeting-3 | 16:25 | |
| * ttx fetches an example | 16:25 | |
| krotscheck | ttx: Oh good. So if we _want_ to import blueprints, we can create associations inside of storyboard, however that might end up looking. | 16:25 |
| krotscheck | Linking strategy TBD | 16:25 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: not sure I follow | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | It sounds to me like Blueprint import is something that should be tracked as a feature, and discussed when we’re ready to work on that. | 16:26 |
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| ttx | yes, at the very least we should provide a CLI tool to import most details of a LP blueprint in a new StoryBoard story | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | ttx: So, we can import blueprints. If we import them, it might be possible to convert them into a story and roll all the associated tasks up underneath it. But whether we import, and how, is still up for debate. | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | Either way, it sounds like it’s something that’s not too difficult, and thus should be something we work on. | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | ttx: What version, 1.3? | 16:27 |
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| ttx | sure. Technically it's not difficult. There is only one task in a LP Blueprint (which is why they fail so badly) | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | I dunno, this feels like part of the feature tracking support. | 16:27 |
| ttx | it's just that starting from a clean slate might actually be a good idea :) | 16:27 |
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| krotscheck | I’m up for that too :) | 16:28 |
| ttx | definitely not at the top of our list in all cases | 16:28 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so 1.2? | 16:29 |
| krotscheck | Or 1.3 | 16:29 |
| ttx | depends on the adopting project I guess | 16:29 |
| ttx | Some projects may require blueprint-import feature before they accept to move their feature tracking to Storyboard | 16:29 |
| ttx | but we may just be able to convince them ALL otherwise | 16:30 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so unprioritized/wishlist? | 16:30 |
| fungi | i thought it was possible to have a blueprint with no associated bug at all, but perhaps i'm wrong about that | 16:30 |
| ttx | so it's 1.2... but after discussion we may just remove it | 16:30 |
| ttx | we need to engage with candidates for migration, see if they really care | 16:31 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, I’ll add it. | 16:31 |
| ttx | if they don't, we can remove that point from 1.2, basically | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | kk | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | #topic MVP 1.1 | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP 1.1 (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:31 | |
| krotscheck | So, migration is ready. | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | I think we’re done. | 16:32 |
| krotscheck | Any disagreements? | 16:32 |
| ttx | nope | 16:33 |
| krotscheck | #topic MVP 1.2 | 16:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP 1.2 (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:33 | |
| krotscheck | #topic MVP 1.2: Email | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP 1.2: Email (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:34 | |
| krotscheck | No progress. | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | Wait. | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | There’s a discussion going on on this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130649/ | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | Which requires some talks. | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | So, the original intent here was to create a space, much like /var/lib/apache2, where storyboard can store any of its own config files and/or runtime on-disk things. | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | There’s some concern that storing things on disk isn’t performant. | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | Which to some extent I agree with. | 16:36 |
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| krotscheck | yolanda has coments, but I don’t think she’s in this channel. | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | So I guess my question is what the best way is to store intermediary data required by the email plugin. | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | Anyone? | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | Oookay. | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | We’ll belay that until next week then. | 16:39 |
| krotscheck | #topic MVP 1.2: User Auth Endpoint | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP 1.2: User Auth Endpoint (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:39 | |
| ttx | I just fear email will be a pain | 16:39 |
| krotscheck | The API side of this is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134409/ | 16:39 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Well, it’s already turning out to be contentious. | 16:40 |
| ttx | It's what made LP timeout after all :) | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | The UI side is coming. | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | And once that’s done a user will be able to issue and revoke their own tokens. | 16:40 |
| ttx | I want to make sure the benefit is absolutely worth the cost | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | ttx: On email? | 16:41 |
| ttx | yes | 16:41 |
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| ttx | sorry for out of sync answer | 16:41 |
| krotscheck | No worries | 16:41 |
| * ttx blames kid on lap | 16:41 | |
| krotscheck | #topic MVP 1.2: Email | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP 1.2: Email (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:41 | |
| krotscheck | We can always just go back to it. | 16:41 |
| ttx | but then I have a nice princess drawing now | 16:42 |
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| krotscheck | Dawwwww | 16:42 |
| * krotscheck melts | 16:42 | |
| krotscheck | So wht are your concerns about emails? | 16:43 |
| krotscheck | Other than the fact that most ticketing systems do them so horribly that everyone just ends up ignoring them. | 16:43 |
| ttx | I just wish we could have a system that would not need email | 16:44 |
| ttx | but we had that discussion already | 16:44 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Yeah. | 16:44 |
| ttx | I'm not the only stakeholder :) | 16:44 |
| krotscheck | There are so many other significant touchpoints that people have access to now, email should be a minor thing. | 16:45 |
| ttx | every time we'll run into a hurdle I'll ask myself, is it really worth the pain | 16:45 |
| krotscheck | Like, how about mobile? We could do push notifications instead. | 16:45 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: sorry, my rant is just a distraction | 16:46 |
| ttx | if that's a need-to-have for a lot of people, I guess we have to bite the bullet | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | I think it’s a need-to-have for non-people-who-use-storyboard | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | Wait | 16:48 |
| krotscheck | that made no sesnse | 16:48 |
| krotscheck | It’s a neet-to-have for people who don’t regularly use storyboard. | 16:49 |
| ttx | krotscheck: we'll have some of those, definitely | 16:49 |
| krotscheck | yep | 16:49 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so, there’s no other work that happened on storyboard things other than the two that I mentioned. | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | So I’m going to bounce on to open discussion. | 16:52 |
| krotscheck | #topic Open Discussion | 16:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Storyboard)" | 16:52 | |
| krotscheck | Anything? | 16:52 |
| ttx | nope | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | Okay! | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | That’s all, thanks everyone! | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 17 16:53:55 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-11-17-16.00.html | 16:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-11-17-16.00.txt | 16:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-11-17-16.00.log.html | 16:54 |
| ttx | thanks krotscheck ! | 16:54 |
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