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| jpich | #startmeeting horizon | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 14 16:00:44 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jpich. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 16:00 | |
| ericpeterson | hello all :D | 16:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 16:00 |
| jpich | Hi everyone | 16:00 |
| david-lyle | Hello | 16:00 |
| tzumainn | hiya | 16:01 |
| bradjones | \o | 16:01 |
| jgravel_ | Hi | 16:01 |
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| * david-lyle on phone irc | 16:01 | |
| jpich | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon | 16:01 |
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| akrivoka | hello! | 16:01 |
| rbertram | hi | 16:01 |
| jpich | david-lyle: I expect interesting auto-correct typos :) | 16:01 |
| tsufiev | hi! | 16:01 |
| sambetts | o/ | 16:01 |
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| amotoki | hi | 16:01 |
| TravT | o/ | 16:02 |
| jpich | #topic juno-rc-potential bugs | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "juno-rc-potential bugs (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 16:02 | |
| jpich | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bugs?field.tag=juno-rc-potential | 16:02 |
| jtomasek | hey | 16:02 |
| jpich | So we have a couple of bugs, including a critical one that must absolutely be fixed before the release | 16:02 |
| jpich | Release which is planned in two days | 16:02 |
| deshipu | hi | 16:02 |
| jpich | Additional help and eyes on the problem would be extremely welcome :) | 16:03 |
| crobertsrh | hello/ | 16:03 |
| jpich | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1379761 | 16:03 |
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| david-lyle | The hope would be to have a fix in the pipeline by tonight in the US | 16:03 |
| david-lyle | As we don't have a proposed fix to review that may be difficult | 16:04 |
| jtomasek | jpich: I was looking at that issue and managed to reproduce it. I think the main problem is that compilation won't happen without debug set to true | 16:04 |
| gugl | hi | 16:04 |
| jtomasek | jpich: and I think it has to be done manually at some point | 16:05 |
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| bpokorny | Hi | 16:05 |
| david-lyle | At this point I'm even considering a monkey patch of the problematic method to consider debug to be always true | 16:05 |
| jpich | jtomasek: Ok... Please, consider addding any additional information to the bug report too, that is helpful | 16:05 |
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| jtomasek | jpich: ok, I'll do | 16:06 |
| jpich | Thank you | 16:06 |
| david-lyle | Hoping a cleaner method is proposed before that | 16:06 |
| ericpeterson | I ran into this a few weeks ago, but on master it worked yesterday (I'm behind the times) (for the compress issue) | 16:06 |
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| david-lyle | It worked yesterday with debug=False? | 16:07 |
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| ericpeterson | yup, pretty sure. can follow up later | 16:07 |
| jpich | ericpeterson: Ok... If you have any idea/half-formed thoughts on what might causing this *sometimes* please add to the bug :-) | 16:07 |
| jpich | Thank you! | 16:07 |
| jtomasek | ericpeterson: are you sure that some previously compiled stylesheet was not in horizon/static folder? | 16:07 |
| deshipu | david-lyle: the django-pyscss people werre ve sponsive so far and always merged pattchs within a day | 16:07 |
| ericpeterson | it was related to static assets and the xstatic stuff changing around for sure. the bug is on the correct track | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | Final release for openstack is thursday | 16:08 |
| ericpeterson | ack | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | I don't think we have time for a proper fix | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | Unfortunately | 16:08 |
| david-lyle | Obviously that is the desired path | 16:09 |
| jpich | deshipu: That's very good to know, I'm not sure if that one has been reported back upstream though looking at the comments | 16:09 |
| ericpeterson | so you're looking for duct tape. | 16:09 |
| deshipu | I also have the impression that it used to work | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | Luckily you're here | 16:09 |
| jpich | Did we get a version upgrade recently? | 16:09 |
| david-lyle | deshipu looking at the code not sure how | 16:10 |
| david-lyle | Blame says that code is from feb | 16:10 |
| deshipu | you have o run collectstaic wih debug disabled | 16:10 |
| ericpeterson | and was compress_offline also turned on? that's needed too I think | 16:11 |
| deshipu | butt you always had" | 16:11 |
| deshipu | no idea | 16:11 |
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| jtomasek | deshipu: running that just moves the stylesheets but won't do the compresion | 16:11 |
| david-lyle | ericpeterson couldn't get offline compression to work either with debug false | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | The compress step is looking for storage files not the collected assets | 16:12 |
| deshipu | I'm afk for the rest of he day, can't help :( | 16:12 |
| david-lyle | It may be possible to set STATICFILES_STORAGE to something that will work by default | 16:13 |
| ericpeterson | looking into it, will post back when I have something to share / rebuilding venv etc to start fresh | 16:13 |
| david-lyle | Thanks all! | 16:14 |
| deshipu | ericpeterson: tthnk you | 16:14 |
| jpich | Thank you. I think more people will be hanging out in #openstack-horizon to continue working on this after the meeting | 16:14 |
| jtomasek | ericpeterson: great | 16:14 |
| ericpeterson | don't thank me until I have something working ;) | 16:14 |
| jpich | ericpeterson: Counting on you :P | 16:14 |
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| jpich | amotoki: You had another RC3 issue to bring up? | 16:14 |
| amotoki | yes. I would like to raise https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1378525 (due to neutron bug) | 16:14 |
| amotoki | I think It is not release blocking. It is because neutron disabled this feature in RC3. | 16:15 |
| amotoki | I just proposed a patch for it. If we cut RC3, I hope this in. | 16:15 |
| jpich | If the patch is ready we can get it in at the same time, I think | 16:15 |
| jpich | yes | 16:15 |
| amotoki | I think we can also mention this as a known issue. | 16:16 |
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| jpich | and put in the fix in the first stable release then if needed then... Sounds fair enough, thank you for putting up the patch too | 16:17 |
| jpich | Maybe we can get it in on time | 16:17 |
| ericpeterson | I have offline compression working, fwiw | 16:18 |
| jpich | ericpeterson: Eep?? | 16:18 |
| jpich | Could you post steps on the bug report so we can see if everyone is following the same process? | 16:18 |
| ericpeterson | yep | 16:18 |
| jpich | Also if it's devstack or elsewhere, wonder if there is a common pattern... | 16:19 |
| jpich | Ok, anything else of relevance to the release on Thursday? | 16:19 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Are there release notes the community can help review somewhere or is that tbd? | 16:20 |
| david-lyle | I have them mostly done. Will post soon as patch and to the wiki. Hack up the wiki to fix my errors | 16:21 |
| jpich | Awesome, thanks a lot | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | Looks like my chapter on l3 ha is going to have to be redacted :) | 16:21 |
| jpich | Hopefully just a lil' correction :-) | 16:21 |
| david-lyle | Well yes | 16:22 |
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| jpich | Ok, let's move on to the next topic then | 16:22 |
| jpich | #topic Adding Sinon.JS (http://sinonjs.org/) dependency to horizon. -- tsufiev | 16:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding Sinon.JS (http://sinonjs.org/) dependency to horizon. -- tsufiev (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 16:22 | |
| david-lyle | This was a hold over | 16:22 |
| jpich | Ah, ok | 16:23 |
| jpich | An update was posted to the list yesterday: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-October/048301.html | 16:23 |
| jpich | so maybe we can follow up there for now | 16:23 |
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| jpich | and continue in a meeting if no consensus is reached by email | 16:23 |
| david-lyle | Sure | 16:23 |
| tsufiev | jpich, yep, post something in ML :) | 16:23 |
| jpich | Thanks tsufiev :) | 16:23 |
| jpich | #topic Summit Session Selection (david-lyle) | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit Session Selection (david-lyle) (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 16:23 | |
| jpich | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/horizon-kilo-summit | 16:24 |
| jpich | Is that a holdover too? Vote, people, vote? | 16:24 |
| tsufiev | jpich, we've discussed this topic with Radomir on #openstack-horizon yesterday | 16:24 |
| david-lyle | Not a holdover | 16:24 |
| jpich | tsufiev: Eep, maybe I moved too fast then. Or maybe the summary of the conversation can be posted on list? :-) | 16:24 |
| david-lyle | The selection process is open to everyone. Please vote and help decide what are the most important items you would like to have covered | 16:25 |
| tsufiev | jpich, the main conclusion I made myself after discussion with Radomir is that we both don't know what are the plans for Horizon client-side code | 16:25 |
| tsufiev | jpich, thus, it's not clear whether rewrite every JS unit-test in Jasmine or don't bother with it | 16:26 |
| david-lyle | My personal preference would be to spend the half day on clientside | 16:26 |
| jpich | david-lyle: Seems relevant to the current cross-topic happening :-) | 16:26 |
| jtomasek | david-lyle: +1 | 16:26 |
| david-lyle | Yes indeed | 16:26 |
| tqtran | +1 to half day | 16:26 |
| tsufiev | david-lyle, half a day each day of summit :)? | 16:27 |
| tqtran | hahaha | 16:27 |
| david-lyle | We will have a pod as well, we should use it | 16:27 |
| jpich | Should we requests PoCs to be created in advance for sessions where it makes sense? To avoid "wouldn't it be nice" topics that can't really reach a conclusion or move anything forward? | 16:28 |
| jpich | Oh cool I thought there wasn't enough space for pods this time | 16:28 |
| david-lyle | My understanding is there will be pod space | 16:28 |
| david-lyle | We may not have a fully dedicated one, but we'll have access to space | 16:29 |
| jpich | Gotcha | 16:29 |
| tqtran | jpich: i think POCs is a good idea | 16:29 |
| david-lyle | PoCs are encouraged | 16:29 |
| tqtran | jpich: its generally better to have something to show rather than theorycraft | 16:29 |
| david-lyle | Indeed | 16:30 |
| jpich | Ok I updated the etherpad | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | A big concern regarding client-side is extensibility | 16:30 |
| ericpeterson | I'd like to see theorycraft, never heard that term (but I get the idea / point) ;) | 16:30 |
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| jpich | people with topics, PoC away! ideally early enough that people have time to poke at it if possible :-) No pressure... | 16:30 |
| david-lyle | I'd love to see some proposals around extensible angular | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | Or is that a pipedreamm | 16:31 |
| tqtran | david-lyle: what exactly is extensible angular? not sure what that means | 16:31 |
| david-lyle | One of the current strengths of horizon and one of its guiding design goals is extensibility | 16:32 |
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| david-lyle | With django you can extend at almost any point | 16:32 |
| david-lyle | From templates to blocks, etc | 16:32 |
| deshipu | I tried to make an extension for horizon using angular | 16:33 |
| ericpeterson | i think the templates for display etc are in that area w angular | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | What can we expect from angular? | 16:33 |
| deshipu | I failed, but I'm very new to that | 16:33 |
| deshipu | but we do have an extension to tuskar-ui written in angular | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | Say on the project overview panel | 16:33 |
| david-lyle | Can I remove the usage summary because its a nova extension underneath? | 16:34 |
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| david-lyle | Or do I have to rewrite the entire page | 16:34 |
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| david-lyle | Of course a modular implementation helps | 16:35 |
| david-lyle | But it's something we need to keep in mind | 16:35 |
| david-lyle | Very few use horizon just as shipped | 16:35 |
| david-lyle | Because that's not realistic | 16:35 |
| ericpeterson | support from version to version would also be interesting for angular | 16:36 |
| tqtran | david-lyle: so i think on the extensibility part, it will most likely be reliant on django still | 16:36 |
| tqtran | david-lyle: i think its more of, how can we leverage django to extend and maintain angular | 16:36 |
| david-lyle | Hmm, if the template just loads angular, that's very coarse granularity | 16:37 |
| deshipu | tqtran: the angular components need to be reusbale somehow too | 16:37 |
| deshipu | tqtran: I don't want to have to rewrite everything | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | Let's talk about it together someplace, maybe paris? | 16:37 |
| tqtran | david-lyle: its still a huge advantage because each component is broken down into smaller parts | 16:37 |
| tqtran | david-lyle: so we can display our web app in a more ajaxy way | 16:38 |
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| david-lyle | Agreed, but the angular needs to be modular and reusable | 16:38 |
| ericpeterson | offline it for paris methinks | 16:38 |
| tqtran | yea haha | 16:38 |
| jpich | Also on the ML, describing the current challenges and what is possible or not (like a summary for people to read before Paris and start from the same understanding) | 16:38 |
| tqtran | jpich: so do we wait for the topic to get selected before writing out the summary? | 16:40 |
| jpich | tqtran: I think it's a conversation we want to have whether or not it happens officially at summit or not | 16:40 |
| jpich | probably I should have picked another word than "summary" :) | 16:41 |
| david-lyle | Client-side will be a topic | 16:41 |
| tqtran | more like a battle lol | 16:41 |
| tqtran | jpich: ok make sense | 16:41 |
| woodm1979 | tqtran: Always the optomist. | 16:41 |
| jpich | Great way to make people be relaxed and mind open for collaboration and new ideas before summit :) | 16:43 |
| jpich | Anything else around the summit? | 16:43 |
| tqtran | last year, we had a pre-summit meeting, would be good to have that again | 16:44 |
| rbertram | How do we "vote" on topics? just adding comments to the etherpad? | 16:44 |
| deshipu | I will need to hunt down the oslo people to talk about websockets | 16:44 |
| deshipu | rbertram: yes | 16:44 |
| jpich | tqtran: Yes. | 16:44 |
| jpich | Totally :) | 16:44 |
| jpich | Let's plan that closer to summit | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | ++ | 16:45 |
| jpich | Ok, moving on to the last topic on the agenda so | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | I think it helped a lot | 16:45 |
| jpich | yep | 16:46 |
| jpich | #topic Design / Blueprint approval process (akrivoka) | 16:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design / Blueprint approval process (akrivoka) (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 16:46 | |
| akrivoka | yes | 16:46 |
| akrivoka | I wanted to bring up this topic, as I've felt we are lacking a proper design phase in our development process | 16:46 |
| akrivoka | we've had this problem many times now | 16:47 |
| jpich | Somewhat related, has the new "spec" template been agreed on? (Or like, not strongly objected to?). Should we bring it up on the list/update whatever documentation needs updating? | 16:47 |
| tsufiev | akrivoka, +1 | 16:47 |
| akrivoka | a typical situation is that only after someone submits a patch, is it revealed that the design of the solution is fundamentally wrong, or at the very least controversial | 16:47 |
| tsufiev | akrivoka, several times reviewing a commit addressing some BP I wasn't sure what the Author is trying to do | 16:48 |
| jpich | Hopefully the more detailed spec will help with that, two liner blueprint descriptions certainly get old... | 16:48 |
| * jpich probably guilty of this too, though | 16:48 | |
| akrivoka | that then leads to design discussion in the Gerrit review - which I don't think is where they belong | 16:48 |
| jpich | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/template | 16:48 |
| mrunge | I'd propose to clean up blueprints | 16:48 |
| amotoki | doesn't the way David proposes work? | 16:48 |
| * mrunge thinks of removing/clean *all* blueprints | 16:48 | |
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| jpich | I don't remember how we decided to do approvals after the spec is decided though | 16:49 |
| akrivoka | jpich: oh interesting, I didn't know about this - will take a look | 16:49 |
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| jpich | it'd be cool if everyone felt free to participate in commenting at the design level too | 16:49 |
| jpich | akrivoka: Cool! Feedback welcome obviously :) | 16:49 |
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| akrivoka | jpich: sure, thanks for the heads up | 16:49 |
| jpich | People should remember to indicate their name on the whiteboard though, it's not obvious who's saying what otherwise | 16:50 |
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| amotoki | the proposal suggests us to describe more detail and requirements of blueprints. I believe it helps us. | 16:50 |
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| david-lyle | Ux is a step in the process that needs more consideration | 16:51 |
| mrunge | that template is awesome david-lyle ! | 16:51 |
| mrunge | can we make it mandatory for new blueprints? | 16:51 |
| tqtran | david-lyle: agree, i think for big visual changes, we should recommend a mock-up of some sort so people can get an idea of what it ensues | 16:52 |
| akrivoka | following a template like this would definitely be an improvement, imo | 16:52 |
| akrivoka | huge +1 from me | 16:52 |
| david-lyle | I would propose blocking pending ux input but I don't feel ux team is big enough to shoulder that burden | 16:52 |
| akrivoka | (will review in detail) | 16:52 |
| jpich | Yeah we definitely should publicise it a bit more now, I don't think it's been mentioned on the ML yet | 16:52 |
| tqtran | david-lyle: agree, i think it should just be recommended for now | 16:52 |
| david-lyle | I think ux team input is desirable | 16:52 |
| TravT | I have a question on mockups... where can we host them? For example, if we have a pdf, I can't attach to wiki | 16:53 |
| david-lyle | But horizon team ux feedback is also needed | 16:53 |
| tqtran | TravT: thats a problem in code reviews also | 16:53 |
| TravT | wiki only seems to accept picture files... unless I'm missing something. | 16:53 |
| jpich | For things that aren't huge overhauls, simplish UX design by developers can also help understand what will happen, like what was done with the pdf at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/horizon-shelving-command | 16:54 |
| tqtran | jpich: +1 | 16:54 |
| TravT | there's an example of a pdf hosted at some github location. | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | TravT I think any free file sharing service is fine | 16:55 |
| TravT | should we submit a patch with the pdf to horizon? | 16:55 |
| jpich | People seem to use their own private accounts in other places for pdf/images so far. The wiki could be a potential location as well perhaps? (Not sure if attachments are possible though or if it can only link to external images) | 16:55 |
| jpich | Not to Horizon no | 16:55 |
| david-lyle | Binary files and git is not good | 16:55 |
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| tqtran | only issue is that sometime the host scrap those images | 16:56 |
| tqtran | and we are left to wonder what was there | 16:56 |
| tqtran | would be good to have a central place we encourage to host | 16:56 |
| TravT | tqtran: yep, my concerns as well. | 16:56 |
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| deshipu | .oO( bitbucket has binary files uploads ) | 16:57 |
| TravT | maybe a question to send to openstack infra? | 16:57 |
| david-lyle | I share your concern | 16:57 |
| david-lyle | I will consult with infra | 16:57 |
| deshipu | david-lyle: there is very nice pastebin for any file software written in python, bepasted | 16:57 |
| deshipu | david-lyle: maybe we could get them to host it somewhere | 16:57 |
| jpich | #topic Open discussion | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 16:58 | |
| jpich | 2 minutes for any additional concerns | 16:58 |
| clu_ | how long can we expect the bp approval process to take? | 16:58 |
| TravT | david-lyle: thanks. let me know... maybe even if there were a horizon-specs repo, it could host mockups. | 16:58 |
| clu_ | there's no sort-by-date... | 16:58 |
| bradjones | I'd like to draw attention to review.openstack.org/128295/ it fixes an upstream bug in UT with a KeyError | 16:59 |
| jtomasek | jpich: david-lyle: any leads to when will master be open for Kilo patches? | 16:59 |
| clu_ | so some may just sit there... | 16:59 |
| jpich | Yeah, and there's no notifications for new blueprints, it's awkward... | 16:59 |
| jpich | jtomasek: It has been since the first RC :) | 16:59 |
| akrivoka | bps are really awkward in many ways :\ | 16:59 |
| jpich | bradjones: Do you know how come the initial patch was able to merge? | 17:00 |
| jtomasek | jpich: ok, I'd like to point out a few patches that fix most of the layout problems in Horizon and are in review proces for quite some time | 17:00 |
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| jtomasek | Fixed display issues on Details Page caused by bootstrap 3 update https://review.openstack.org/#/c/115693/ | 17:00 |
| jtomasek | Modal fixes - 2 columns, padding, header, membership https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113519/ | 17:00 |
| jtomasek | Restyled topbar to resemble UX guidelines https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117118/ | 17:00 |
| jtomasek | Restyled sidebar to resemble UX guidelines https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126289/ | 17:00 |
| jpich | Ok, let's continue in openstack-horizon or on the ML folks, that's our time for this week | 17:00 |
| jpich | Thanks | 17:00 |
| jpich | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| tzumainn | thanks jpich! | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 14 17:00:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-10-14-16.00.html | 17:00 |
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| akrivoka | thanks everyone! | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-10-14-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2014/horizon.2014-10-14-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| jtomasek | thanks all | 17:00 |
| akrivoka | have a good week :) | 17:00 |
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| thinrichs | Hi to the people here for Congress. | 17:01 |
| sarob | Hi | 17:01 |
| thinrichs | #startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 14 17:01:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| glebo | yo | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting' | 17:01 |
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| thinrichs | I know several people are in Europe, so I'm guessing they'll be missing today. | 17:02 |
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| thinrichs | Let's just get started with status updates. | 17:03 |
| thinrichs | #topic status | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status (Meeting topic: CongressTeamMeeting)" | 17:03 | |
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| thinrichs | sarob: want to start? | 17:03 |
| sarob | Morn | 17:03 |
| rajdeep | Hi | 17:03 |
| sarob | I'm still driving | 17:03 |
| sarob | 15 m | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | sarob: okay, let's have you go later then. | 17:04 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: would you like to give a status update? | 17:04 |
| rajdeep | yes | 17:04 |
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| rajdeep | i have been working on the datasource tab of horizon | 17:04 |
| rajdeep | panel showing datasources and their respective tables is completed | 17:05 |
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| rajdeep | now working on the child view for each table | 17:05 |
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| thinrichs | Great! | 17:05 |
| rajdeep | working on top of work being done by janet | 17:05 |
| glebo | +1 | 17:05 |
| thinrichs | I haven't done development on Horizon before: what is a child view? | 17:05 |
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| rajdeep | its my term :) | 17:06 |
| rajdeep | panel which opens on clicking the hyperlink of the main panel | 17:06 |
| rajdeep | in our case it is a details page for each table in a datasource | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | Could you briefly describe what information is on the main panel and what goes into the child panel? | 17:06 |
| thinrichs | Maybe with an example? | 17:07 |
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| rajdeep | main panel has datasource name and table name example | 17:07 |
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| rajdeep | neutron | routers | 17:07 |
| rajdeep | neutrons | ports | 17:07 |
| rajdeep | child pane will come on clicking ports | 17:07 |
| rajdeep | looking at the screen to give you details | 17:08 |
| thinrichs | Got it. Do we see actual rows of data anywhere? If so, is there pagination or do we pull all the data at once? | 17:09 |
| rajdeep | ports | [u'2cecb91b-53f7-46ac-a362-7dc03ee8b87c', u'de810f43-4ed8-4353-83cb-6381893dc5fe', u'84602362-de31-4275-962e-988eed18e4af', u'None', u'DOWN', u'', u'True', u'9ee2dee0-ea55-4b4f-a9e6-a60da23916b1', u'54267c459dfc49858df903bc47ce3c9e', u'None', u'network:dhcp', u'fa:16:3e:9d:d2:fd', u'ed028826-7ac6-410f-b0bc-0bed96cf11f0', u'7c9cc3e5-93fa-43fe-acb9-a0a2405590e5', u'dhcp46bf075a-c687-5415-9f5a-56104ed491ce-9ee2dee | 17:09 |
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| rajdeep | yes planning to add pagination | 17:09 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. | 17:10 |
| rajdeep | hope the example helps in understanding | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Yep—the example was helpful. | 17:10 |
| thinrichs | Is there anything you need from us? | 17:10 |
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| rajdeep | not really, janet has been quite helpful | 17:11 |
| thinrichs | Okay—well let us know if there's information that you think is useful to display but that isn't exposed via the API/client. | 17:11 |
| rajdeep | ok, sure | 17:11 |
| thinrichs | glebo: It's good to "see" you here again. | 17:11 |
| rajdeep | how about last updated time | 17:12 |
| glebo | thinrichs: thx. happy to b here ;-) | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | rajdeep: I'm hoping to get datasource statuses written and exported through the API this week. last_updated time will be included. | 17:12 |
| thinrichs | glebo: anything to report or questions to ask? | 17:13 |
| rajdeep | ok | 17:13 |
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| glebo | thinrichs: Not today. Just lurking. | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | Sounds good. Just wanted to check. | 17:13 |
| thinrichs | alexsyip: want to give a status report? | 17:13 |
| glebo | thinrichs: thx for asking | 17:13 |
| alexsyip | I went through a bit of code review with Aaron and Tim for the datasource driver translations. I’m addressing those comments now. | 17:14 |
| alexsyip | I also worked with Louis a bit on the GBP integration spec. | 17:14 |
| alexsyip | That’s all. | 17:14 |
| glebo | thinrichs: actually, I will have some questions, but I should probably hold off until everyone else is done with their status and issues, as there is nothing pressing about my questions. | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | alexsyip: That datasource driver stuff is looking good. It'll be a big help, I think. | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | glebo: okay. Don't let me forget. | 17:15 |
| alexsyip | Yes, I hope so. | 17:15 |
| glebo | thinrichs: promise | 17:15 |
| thinrichs | Okay, I'll do a status update for some of the missing people. | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | arosen has pushed a bunch of code recently. | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | He's got a change in review for persisting policy to disk via oslo.db. | 17:16 |
| thinrichs | He's got a glance datasource driver. | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | He's got tempest tests for nova/neutron, if I remember right. | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | I may be forgetting things. | 17:17 |
| thinrichs | I've also seen some specs moving forward, which is good. | 17:18 |
| glebo | *snaps for arosen* | 17:18 |
| thinrichs | There's a cinder datasource driver now in review (written by a first-time commiter). | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | Cinder writer: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/owner:%22Samta+Rangare%22+status:open,n,z | 17:19 |
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| thinrichs | I finished up the simulate() functionality last week. | 17:19 |
| thinrichs | I'm working to add a collection of date-time builtins, so we can reason about dates and times in policy. | 17:20 |
| thinrichs | And I spent 6 hours doing reviews yesterday—digging out from review-debt. | 17:20 |
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| thinrichs | I think that's about it for me and the folks I know about that aren't here. | 17:21 |
| thinrichs | sarob: are you still driving? | 17:21 |
| glebo | *snaps for thinrichs 6 hrs of reviews* | 17:21 |
| sarob | 5 mi | 17:21 |
| rajdeep | +1 | 17:21 |
| sarob | Min | 17:21 |
| glebo | sarob: if u r, don't text, for heaven's sake!! | 17:22 |
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| thinrichs | I think this will be a short meeting, given how many people are missing. | 17:22 |
| glebo | lol | 17:22 |
| thinrichs | Anyone else have anything to report? If not, we'll have glebo ask his questions. | 17:22 |
| sarob | I can post to the ML | 17:22 |
| glebo | *rarely complains about short mtgs* | 17:22 |
| glebo | *waiting for any others* | 17:23 |
| thinrichs | Short meetings are definitely good. | 17:23 |
| glebo | ok, | 17:23 |
| glebo | Q1: | 17:23 |
| glebo | have we come to consensus on the declarative protocol? It sounded at the meetup like we were trending to a decision, but it wasn't final yet | 17:24 |
| sarob | Okay I'm good now | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | glebo: what declarative protocol are you talking about? | 17:25 |
| thinrichs | The language we use to communite policy to Congress? | 17:26 |
| thinrichs | The language congress uses to talk to other policy engines? | 17:26 |
| glebo | thinrichs: right, sorry for the ambiguity. The protocol that congress uses to declare the configured policy to the policy endpoints or implementers | 17:27 |
| glebo | thinrichs: who will then take that declaration and "make it so" | 17:27 |
| glebo | thinrichs: based on their capabilities | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | glebo: we've been assuming that Congress will leverage whatever other policy engines (and more generally datacenter services) that exist. | 17:28 |
| thinrichs | For basic datacenter services, we had planned on teaching Congress what their API is and what it does. | 17:28 |
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| thinrichs | So there's no new protocol there—we'd just use HTTP or whatever the service expects. | 17:29 |
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| thinrichs | For policy engines, there are 2 pieces: (1) what policy does Congress push and (2) what protocol does it use to do that? | 17:29 |
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| thinrichs | We don't know the answer to (1) yet. (2) is less important, I think. | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | For (2) we could use opflex, for example, or create a new one. | 17:30 |
| thinrichs | (1) is hard because the policy engines likely have different languages that they understand. | 17:31 |
| glebo | thinrichs: for (2), that's my question: Are we moving toward consensus on that? | 17:31 |
| glebo | are people leaning toward OpFlex, or I thought there were | 17:31 |
| glebo | some pretty strong sentiments that OpFlex wouldn't get us where we needed to be and something more full-bodied was necessary | 17:31 |
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| thinrichs | I'm not aware of anyone thinking about (2). | 17:32 |
| jasonsb | i think i have the same need as glebo | 17:32 |
| glebo | I recall john s (don't know his irc handle) saying he was mucking about with some datalog on steroids, or such? | 17:32 |
| thinrichs | I'm not thinking about (2) b/c I don't know the answer to (1). | 17:32 |
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| thinrichs | glebo: but that has more to do with (1) than (2). | 17:33 |
| glebo | thinrichs: lol | 17:33 |
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| glebo | thinrichs: ok | 17:33 |
| glebo | thinrichs: well, re: (1), if we don't specify something strongly | 17:33 |
| glebo | then we certainly will have an issue where all the engines go off and do their own thing, whereas | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | The *really* hard thing to understand IMO is how these policy engines should cooperate (in terms of the information they exchange and the functionality they provide). The bits they use to wrap the messages they send while cooperating is a lower-level question. | 17:34 |
| glebo | if we come out strongly with a framework spec, and make it clear that we are all in consenus, along with several of the engines, on FOO, then all the engines will line up and do FOO, | 17:34 |
| thinrichs | glebo: agreed that other engines doing their own thing is a challenge. | 17:34 |
| glebo | because nobody wants to be an island as unto themselves, right? | 17:35 |
| thinrichs | But I don't believe we can actually stop engines from doing that. | 17:35 |
| thinrichs | Because there are already engines running around in datacenters that no one will ever modify. | 17:35 |
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| thinrichs | But I agree that once we figure out something sensible, we should get consensus around that and push everyone to adopt. | 17:36 |
| glebo | thinrichs: sure, but those engines will either become obsolete quickly, and fade away, or they will be updated to join the automated system | 17:36 |
| glebo | hmmm… | 17:36 |
| thinrichs | glebo: Someone told me that something like 10% of code running in their datacenter was Cobol. | 17:36 |
| glebo | thinrichs: me thinks about it a bit differently., | 17:36 |
| thinrichs | I'm not convinced legacy management tools will die so quickly. | 17:37 |
| thinrichs | glebo: I thought I was agreeing with you. :) | 17:37 |
| glebo | thinrichs: first, by way of creating a concrete example, give me an example of an engine that you think is ripe for congress integration | 17:37 |
| glebo | thinrichs: Lol. u r, at the highest level, at the end-state. | 17:38 |
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| glebo | thinrichs: I think the diff comes from how to get from here to end state | 17:38 |
| thinrichs | GBP is the obvious first choice | 17:38 |
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| glebo | really, as an engine? Don't u think GBP will be subsumed by congress down the road? | 17:39 |
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| glebo | I was thinking more of something like neutron/L2-network-assignment | 17:39 |
| thinrichs | Do you have an engine in mind? | 17:39 |
| glebo | or FWaaS | 17:39 |
| glebo | or LBaaS | 17:40 |
| glebo | or Nova-placement-of-instance-on-host | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | I guess I don't think of those as policy engines. | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | They don't separate desired state from observed state. | 17:40 |
| glebo | oh no? Maybe I'm goofed on my definitions here | 17:40 |
| thinrichs | There's no hard definition of course. And my thinking about this changes weekly. | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | Up to now we've treated Neutron as a standard data service. | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | You write policy over the tables it exports. | 17:41 |
| glebo | don't they take desired state, in the form of a policy declaration from congress, and then create the actual state, which quickly turns into observed state? | 17:41 |
| thinrichs | And enforcement is done by making Neutron API calls. | 17:42 |
| glebo | thinrichs: "changes weekly": lmao | 17:42 |
| thinrichs | glebo: what isn't a policy engine then, by that definition? | 17:42 |
| glebo | thinrichs: hmmm…. | 17:42 |
| glebo | thinrichs: I guess I tend to think of things as | 17:43 |
| thinrichs | But let's not get hung up on english words. Sounds like you want us to take a policy and push down L2/L3 connectivity in Neutron. | 17:43 |
| thinrichs | Yes? | 17:43 |
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| glebo | thinrichs: policy description points, and policy enactments points | 17:43 |
| glebo | thinrichs: but it seems that perhaps you have a middle layer of policy consumption points? | 17:44 |
| glebo | thinrichs: not quite what I was thinking, | 17:44 |
| thinrichs | From Congress's point of view Neutron is a PEP. | 17:44 |
| thinrichs | Congress is a PDP. | 17:44 |
| thinrichs | Nothing I'd call a middle-layer that I can think of. | 17:45 |
| glebo | thinrichs: I was thinking that congress takes policy and declares the desired state "down", and the recipient of that declaration is then responsible for enacting the declaration, or stating it can't do so. | 17:45 |
| glebo | right, so, if I'm understanding this correctly, we can either (a) have 1000 API's supported, or | 17:46 |
| glebo | sorry, that was an ( a ), not angel, | 17:46 |
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| glebo | ( b ) use a protocol for declaring desired policy in a structured format, and highly adaptable registries for the contents of those messages, | 17:47 |
| glebo | so that all recipients understand the same message constructs | 17:47 |
| glebo | e.g. | 17:47 |
| glebo | the protocol all PEPs speak with Congress is *FOO*, and | 17:48 |
| glebo | there is some sort of TLV format, | 17:48 |
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| glebo | where the Types and fixed values are all clearly defined in an Internet registry | 17:49 |
| glebo | , e.g. | 17:49 |
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| thinrichs | Having all PEPs speak the same language would be fantastic! But I don't see that as a practical solution in the short term. I'm dubious that anyone will use Congress if it only works when all of the PEPs speak the Congress language. | 17:49 |
| thinrichs | It's an insertion question. | 17:49 |
| glebo | subnet, or IPv4addr, or AccessControlAction | 17:50 |
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| thinrichs | We've spent quite a bit of time minutes on this. I know sarob is patiently waiting to give us a status report. | 17:50 |
| glebo | thinrichs: for sure | 17:50 |
| sarob | np | 17:50 |
| glebo | but we can say, for the small, fixed …. | 17:50 |
| thinrichs | And we want to have some time for others to ask questions. | 17:50 |
| glebo | *breaks to give air to others* | 17:50 |
| thinrichs | glebo: :) | 17:51 |
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| thinrichs | sarob: want to give us an update? | 17:51 |
| sarob | sure | 17:51 |
| sarob | the kilo design summit etherpad is here #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/par-kilo-congress-design-session | 17:52 |
| sarob | i have dumped all the possible specs, bp, and topics | 17:53 |
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| sarob | i will start consolidating today | 17:53 |
| sarob | we need the team to start dumping ideas into here as well | 17:53 |
| sarob | so we can put together an agenda | 17:53 |
| sarob | we also have the operations design sessions again | 17:54 |
| sarob | the operations design etherpad is here #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAR-ops-meetup | 17:54 |
| sarob | we should at least reprise our brief talk from the last operations summit | 17:54 |
| sarob | or give an updated version of the same talk | 17:55 |
| sarob | other than me responding to reviews and starting to clean up the wiki | 17:56 |
| sarob | that is all for me | 17:56 |
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| thinrichs | Great! Let's all try to dump ideas into the etherpad so we can set an agenda before Paris. | 17:56 |
| sarob | anything outstanding for me that I left out? | 17:56 |
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| glebo | would others be interested in taking the discussion thinrichs and I were having into congress channel after our conclusion here? | 17:57 |
| jasonsb | i would | 17:57 |
| sarob | ill bite too | 17:57 |
| LouisF | glebo: yes | 17:57 |
| glebo | *glee* | 17:57 |
| thinrichs | sarob: I didn't see an entry for Congress in the operators etherpad. | 17:57 |
| thinrichs | sarob: want to add something so we have a shot at giving the talk you described? | 17:58 |
| sarob | thinrichs: i thought i added that already... hmmm | 17:58 |
| thinrichs | sarob: maybe I missed it. Just did a search for Congress | 17:58 |
| glebo | +1, no hits on "congress" | 17:59 |
| sarob | nope its not there, strange | 17:59 |
| sarob | ill pop it in there again | 17:59 |
| glebo | *hears twilight zone theme song* | 17:59 |
| sarob | we are pumpkin! | 17:59 |
| thinrichs | Oops—we're out of time. Let's continue on #congress. Fair warning: I only have 30 minutes. | 17:59 |
| * sarob i like glee | 17:59 | |
| thinrichs | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 14 18:00:05 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-10-14-17.01.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-10-14-17.01.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/congressteammeeting/2014/congressteammeeting.2014-10-14-17.01.log.html | 18:00 |
| thinrichs | Thanks all! | 18:00 |
| glebo | heading to #congress | 18:00 |
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