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| lblanchard | anyone available for the UX meeting? | 16:58 |
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| lblanchard | #startmeeting UX | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 18 17:00:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lblanchard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: UX)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ux' | 17:00 |
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| lblanchard | Well, it doesn't sound like there are many folks who can attend today… | 17:00 |
| lblanchard | but here is our agenda: | 17:00 |
| lblanchard | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/UX | 17:00 |
| tsufiev | hi there :) | 17:00 |
| lblanchard | hi tsufiev! | 17:00 |
| lblanchard | it might just be you and I today unfortunately... | 17:01 |
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| lblanchard | did you have anything that you'd like to talk about regarding Merlin? | 17:01 |
| lblanchard | #topic Merlin project | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Merlin project (Meeting topic: UX)" | 17:01 | |
| tsufiev | lblanchard, Openstack UX group is a lonely place indeed :) | 17:01 |
| tsufiev | lblanchard, yes, I do | 17:01 |
| lblanchard | tsufiev: yes, these last few weeks I think a lot of folks have been quite busy with other items :) | 17:02 |
| lblanchard | we need more UXers!! :) | 17:02 |
| tsufiev | i have some rough UI concepts for Merlin PoC at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Merlin/PoC#Draft_UI_concept_for_PoC_.28visual_editing_of_HOT_templates.29 | 17:02 |
| lblanchard | tsufiev: great | 17:02 |
| tsufiev | remembering your (and Jacki's) words about getting as much feedback as possible (and soon enough) I've tried to prepare those mock-ups as soon as I could :) | 17:02 |
| lblanchard | tsufiev: yes, that's perfect. I will definitely review these and give feedback. I will also create an action for others to do the same… | 17:03 |
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| lblanchard | #action Review Merlin PoC concepts #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Merlin/PoC#Draft_UI_concept_for_PoC_.28visual_editing_of_HOT_templates.29 | 17:03 |
| tsufiev | i'm not expecting some feedback right now, but I wanted to clarify what is the proper way to create mock-ups in Openstack UX community | 17:03 |
| lblanchard | tsufiev: we really haven't standardized the way we design and share designs yet... | 17:04 |
| lblanchard | we've talked a bit about picking a design review tool | 17:04 |
| tsufiev | right now I'm using mockflow.com, WireframePro, but it seems I am doing thing in some cumbersome way... | 17:04 |
| lblanchard | but that hasn't been finalized…it's still on the agenda and some work has been done to review these tools here…https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/uxtools | 17:05 |
| Piet | I think the offer is still on teh table from InVision to provide a design review tool | 17:05 |
| lblanchard | Piet: I think one of the loose requirements is that we can host it and also that it's open source | 17:05 |
| tsufiev | lblanchard, great, will take a look at this etherpad | 17:05 |
| lblanchard | Piet: but take a look at the tools in the etherpad and give your thoughts | 17:06 |
| lblanchard | tsufiev: great, thanks! | 17:06 |
| lblanchard | tsufiev: and I will add thoughts and comments to the wiki page…I think that's a fine way to share design ideas for now | 17:06 |
| Piet | Are there any opensource tools out there for design review? | 17:06 |
| tsufiev | lblanchard, thanks a lot! I think that's all I had to say about Merlin UX | 17:07 |
| lblanchard | Piet: A few have been added and reviewed on the etherpad | 17:07 |
| lblanchard | Piet: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/uxtools | 17:07 |
| Piet | The only one I know is ReviewBoard https://www.reviewboard.org/ | 17:07 |
| tsufiev | (at least, for now) | 17:07 |
| lblanchard | tsufiev: great thanks! | 17:07 |
| lblanchard | #topic Wireframes review tool | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Wireframes review tool (Meeting topic: UX)" | 17:07 | |
| lblanchard | since we are there already :) | 17:07 |
| lblanchard | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/uxtools | 17:08 |
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| lblanchard | #action Review etherpad and add any new tools and comments you have | 17:08 |
| lblanchard | Piet: would you be able to add reviewboard to the list? | 17:08 |
| Piet | sure | 17:09 |
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| lblanchard | Piet: awesome, thanks…I will take a look too and add some comments | 17:09 |
| lblanchard | so I think we are still in the selection process. My hope is that we can get some better attendance in the next few meetings and choose a tool to move forward with. | 17:10 |
| lblanchard | but in the mean time, please do add comments to the etherpad on these tools | 17:10 |
| Piet | The UX isn't great, but it's opensource and can be hosted anywhere | 17:10 |
| tsufiev | lblanchard, sure! | 17:10 |
| lblanchard | #topic Ops Meetup | 17:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ops Meetup (Meeting topic: UX)" | 17:11 | |
| hinnant | Hey Piet, what is the full list at the moment? Perhaps I joined too late to get that in the chat | 17:11 |
| hinnant | never mind, we can sync offline | 17:11 |
| lblanchard | hinnant: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/uxtools | 17:11 |
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| hinnant | lblanchard: thanks | 17:12 |
| lblanchard | hinnant: no prob | 17:12 |
| lblanchard | #link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2014/07/ops-mid-cycle-meetup-august-2526/ | 17:12 |
| lblanchard | is anyone from UX planning to attend the ops meetup? | 17:12 |
| lblanchard | I will not be able to unfortunately…I'm about 5 weeks away from having my first child :) | 17:12 |
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| lblanchard | so traveling is a bit difficult you might say... | 17:13 |
| Piet | RedHat won't pay for first class for you? Along with a personal physician? | 17:13 |
| lblanchard | Piet: :) | 17:14 |
| lblanchard | Piet: I don't want to entertain the idea!! | 17:14 |
| lblanchard | Well, I will follow up with Jacki too…I know this is very close to her. | 17:14 |
| lblanchard | and we can at least follow up later with the notes that have been taken if no one from UX can attend in person | 17:14 |
| tsufiev | lblanchard, anyway, good luck to you :) (hope that's the correct phrasing in English) | 17:15 |
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| lblanchard | tsufiev: thank you! Yes it is :) | 17:15 |
| Piet | So, how adamant is the group about using an opensource tool for design review? I have heard some rumors that closed source tools are occasionally used.... | 17:15 |
| lblanchard | Piet: probably a discussion we'd need to having via mailing list. It doesn't sound like we will have the attendance here to decide. | 17:15 |
| Piet | k | 17:15 |
| jacalcat | Hi This is Jeff, just joined. | 17:16 |
| lblanchard | Piet: please feel free to create a discussion and tag it with [UX]…it would be good to send to the developer mailing list as a discussion for all to chime in on | 17:16 |
| lblanchard | jacalcat: welcome! | 17:16 |
| Piet | Hey Jeff | 17:16 |
| lblanchard | jacalcat: do you plan to attend the ops meetup in a few weeks? | 17:17 |
| lblanchard | or next week :) | 17:17 |
| jacalcat | Is that in San Antonio? | 17:17 |
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| lblanchard | jacalcat: yes | 17:17 |
| lblanchard | jacalcat: http://www.openstack.org/blog/2014/07/ops-mid-cycle-meetup-august-2526/ | 17:17 |
| jacalcat | I hadn't planned, but would be good to have someone there. | 17:18 |
| lblanchard | jacalcat: agreed…I don't know if Jacki or Jarda plan to attend, but I will follow up with them | 17:18 |
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| lblanchard | alright…moving on | 17:19 |
| lblanchard | #topic Horizon Pattern Library | 17:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon Pattern Library (Meeting topic: UX)" | 17:19 | |
| Piet | Just out of curiousity, have there been any pushes to create a UX program in OpenStack? | 17:19 |
| lblanchard | #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OKy_oXZQSg8Feo0p6Es7giR6a-w_CK8H03D2R2yAUjs/edit#slide=id.g3637a7faf_084 | 17:19 |
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| lblanchard | so Chris put together a very nice Pattern document | 17:19 |
| lblanchard | I've added a bunch of comments, but others should do the same so that he gets feedback | 17:20 |
| lblanchard | #action Review and comment on Chris' pattern document | 17:20 |
| Piet | At some point, he is going to focus on adding to the docs for Horizon | 17:20 |
| Piet | So, I would like to time box the amount of time for review | 17:21 |
| lblanchard | Piet: I think the plan is to get our process under control and a core set of contributors to UX, then to have contributions that we can show to the larger community how UX would be a benefit as a program | 17:21 |
| lblanchard | Piet: that's fair | 17:21 |
| lblanchard | I'd say by next week he should move forward | 17:21 |
| lblanchard | so I'll make the action a bit more urgent :) | 17:22 |
| Piet | Thanks1 | 17:22 |
| lblanchard | #action DUE BY END OF THIS WEEK…Review Chris's doc so that he can move forward with putting this into docs | 17:22 |
| lblanchard | Piet: no problem | 17:22 |
| lblanchard | #topic New Launch Instance User Feedback Results | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New Launch Instance User Feedback Results (Meeting topic: UX)" | 17:23 | |
| lblanchard | I haven't seen Jacki join yet…so I think we will have to push this to our next meeting | 17:24 |
| Piet | Sounds good | 17:24 |
| Piet | Chris is also working on a redesign of the Launch Instance workflow | 17:24 |
| lblanchard | but I know they'd like to move forward with this feedback (and I think they are currently trying to get a first round of fixes in for juno-3) | 17:24 |
| * david-lyle is late | 17:24 | |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: hi there…no worries, we are just finishing up I think, but please feel free to bring up anything you'd like to chat about | 17:25 |
| lblanchard | Piet: is Chris working with Jacki? | 17:25 |
| lblanchard | because it would be best to have one awesome solution rather than two proposals in my opinion :) | 17:25 |
| david-lyle | reading back | 17:25 |
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| Piet | Not yet - very preliminary - we're trying to understand how Graffiti impacts the design | 17:26 |
| lblanchard | Piet: okay…it's great he is checking out Graffiti | 17:27 |
| lblanchard | I think that's all of the topics we needed to cover today…I will update the agenda for the next meeting and post it to the wiki. | 17:27 |
| lblanchard | #topic Open Discussion | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: UX)" | 17:28 | |
| lblanchard | anyone have anything else they'd like to talk through? | 17:28 |
| Piet | Not that some of the design changes may potentially impact the overall Horizon design patterns | 17:28 |
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| lblanchard | Piet: Is there a question in there? Or just making the statement? | 17:29 |
| Piet | Just a statement | 17:29 |
| lblanchard | okay…yes I do think the changes will impact multiple patterns | 17:31 |
| lblanchard | but for the good of course | 17:31 |
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| david-lyle | the changes have to land before they can really effect the patterns | 17:32 |
| david-lyle | just a reminder of not getting ahead of ourselves | 17:32 |
| lblanchard | right, I think we need to have a change in place somewhere to then show it's benefit…that way others can take it and apply it elsewhere | 17:33 |
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| david-lyle | I do like the changes | 17:33 |
| lblanchard | david-lyle: agreed | 17:33 |
| lblanchard | alright, sounds like that might be all for today… | 17:34 |
| lblanchard | It looks like if we held our next meeting in 2 weeks it would fall on Labor Day for U.S. folks. So I think we will end up meeting next on September 8th (3 weeks from today). I will update the agenda here, so stay tuned: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/UX | 17:34 |
| Piet | Thanks! | 17:34 |
| lblanchard | thank you all for attending! | 17:34 |
| tsufiev | thank you and bye! | 17:34 |
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| david-lyle | Thanks! | 17:34 |
| lblanchard | #endmeeting | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gerrit is offline for project renames. ETA 1645." | 17:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 18 17:34:59 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ux/2014/ux.2014-08-18-17.00.html | 17:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ux/2014/ux.2014-08-18-17.00.txt | 17:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ux/2014/ux.2014-08-18-17.00.log.html | 17:35 |
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| kgriffs | #startmeeting zaqar | 21:11 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Aug 18 21:11:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is kgriffs. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:11 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 21:11 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zaqar' | 21:11 |
| kgriffs | who's here to chat? | 21:11 |
| kgriffs | o/ | 21:11 |
| vkmc | o/ | 21:12 |
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| kgriffs | beep | 21:15 |
| kgriffs | boop | 21:15 |
| flwang | o/ | 21:16 |
| flwang | sorry for the late | 21:16 |
| flwang | since I can't control the bus speed :( | 21:16 |
| kgriffs | oic | 21:16 |
| kgriffs | nice story. :) | 21:16 |
| flwang | pls assign me the magic, God, so that I can control the bus speed next time :) | 21:17 |
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| kgriffs | I think the meeting will be fairly quick today since there are only three of us here. | 21:17 |
| flwang | oh | 21:18 |
| flwang | ok | 21:18 |
| kgriffs | #topic updates on blueprints/bugs | 21:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "updates on blueprints/bugs (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 21:18 | |
| kgriffs | vkmc: you go first. wanna talk about the work you have been doing this past week? | 21:18 |
| vkmc | kgriffs, sure | 21:18 |
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| vkmc | well I've been working mainly in writting docs | 21:19 |
| vkmc | I had some issues with docbook so it took longer than expected | 21:19 |
| vkmc | I'm finishing some details on the config reference | 21:20 |
| vkmc | I'm making sure that it follows exactly the format of the OpenStack Configuration Reference | 21:20 |
| vkmc | so after graduation it can be ported without (many) changes | 21:20 |
| kgriffs | ah, OK | 21:21 |
| vkmc | I also started working on adding functional tests to shards/pools https://bugs.launchpad.net/marconi/+bug/1246757 | 21:21 |
| vkmc | but I'm giving extra priority to docs | 21:21 |
| vkmc | that's all from me | 21:23 |
| flwang | vkmc: sounds good | 21:23 |
| kgriffs | ok, sounds good. thanks! | 21:24 |
| kgriffs | ok, flwang: any updates from your end? | 21:24 |
| flwang | kgriffs: yep, I'm working on the detailed health bp, because the rename make the code a little bit messive | 21:25 |
| flwang | I assume I can upload a new patch set tomorrow | 21:26 |
| flwang | btw, I just filed another bug, pls take a look if it makes sense https://review.openstack.org/#/c/114944/ | 21:26 |
| kgriffs | flwang: hmm, why do we need keystoneclient? | 21:28 |
| flwang | since keystonemiddleware depends on it | 21:28 |
| flwang | but keystonemiddleware won't install keystoneclient automatically | 21:28 |
| kgriffs | WAH | 21:29 |
| flwang | kgriffs: you will see the other projects are depending the two meanwhile, https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/blob/master/requirements.txt | 21:29 |
| kgriffs | why doesn't the middleware itself list the client as a dep? | 21:29 |
| kgriffs | (inquiring minds want to know) | 21:29 |
| kgriffs | flwang: looks like it does here: https://github.com/openstack/keystonemiddleware/blob/master/requirements.txt | 21:31 |
| flwang | interesting | 21:31 |
| flwang | but it won't install it at my pure machine :) | 21:31 |
| flwang | I just got a new laptop and yesterday when I setup the dev env, I found the issue | 21:32 |
| flwang | after run 'sudo pip install -e .', the keystoneclient won't be instaled | 21:32 |
| flwang | maybe it should be a bug of the middleware | 21:32 |
| flwang | I will dig it | 21:33 |
| kgriffs | kk | 21:33 |
| kgriffs | sounds good, thanks! | 21:33 |
| kgriffs | anything else? | 21:33 |
| vkmc | :o | 21:33 |
| flwang | nothing from me | 21:34 |
| kgriffs | ok | 21:34 |
| kgriffs | so, from my end | 21:34 |
| flwang | btw, I will be Paris this time :) | 21:34 |
| kgriffs | cool! | 21:34 |
| flwang | kgriffs: :) pls move on | 21:35 |
| kgriffs | I may not be there (TBD, would be the first summit I'll miss for quite a while) but flaper87|afk will be there for sure | 21:35 |
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| flwang | kgriffs: oh, noooooooooooooooooo | 21:36 |
| flwang | I don't want to see that guy :D | 21:37 |
| vkmc | whaaaaaa :( | 21:37 |
| kgriffs | well, nothing is set in stone yet... we shall see. :) | 21:37 |
| kgriffs | moving on | 21:37 |
| kgriffs | from my end, I have a doc patch with some comments that I will be addressing shortly | 21:38 |
| kgriffs | I've also been working on a bare-metal benchmark setup. Using a hacked version of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112236/ | 21:39 |
| kgriffs | In fact, I have been making a list of ways to further improve the tool, so I may be submitting some patches of my own | 21:39 |
| kgriffs | one thing we need to do, btw, is release a version of the client with the new name to pypi | 21:39 |
| kgriffs | anyway, the cluster is set up and I've done a few smoke tests | 21:40 |
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| flwang | how about the graduation? | 21:40 |
| kgriffs | from a single load generator I can do about 630 message posts per second, average latency of 1.6 ms/req | 21:41 |
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| kgriffs | I've seen some "counter out-of-sync" errors in the log that shouldn't be there... need to investigate | 21:41 |
| kgriffs | anyway, once redis driver lands I will do a final run and then we can have some numbers to publish. I'll probably need to spin up some more load gen boxes | 21:42 |
| kgriffs | flwang: we will discuss that next | 21:42 |
| flwang | kgriffs: is there any baseline for zaqar's performance? | 21:42 |
| flwang | such as what's the max time to post 1000 messages? | 21:43 |
| kgriffs | hmm, that's an interesting way to think about it. So far the benchmark tool just reports throughput and latency averaged over a period of time, during which the tool goes as fast as it can | 21:44 |
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| kgriffs | I suppose you can extrapolate from reqs/sec to get to 1000 | 21:45 |
| kgriffs | actually, it does give average ms/req too | 21:45 |
| kgriffs | anyway, this brings up a deeper question | 21:46 |
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| kgriffs | what is our goal, or what do we need to reach to achieve "fast enough to be useful" | 21:46 |
| kgriffs | anyway, something to think about. Let's decide on some concrete numbers before the next team mtg | 21:48 |
| vkmc | can we get this data from our competitors? and use it as a baseline | 21:48 |
| kgriffs | this shows 2500/sec | 21:50 |
| kgriffs | http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSSimpleQueueService/latest/SQSDeveloperGuide/throughput.html | 21:50 |
| kgriffs | http://colby.id.au/benchmarking-sqs/ | 21:51 |
| kgriffs | #link http://colby.id.au/benchmarking-sqs/ | 21:51 |
| kgriffs | #link http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSSimpleQueueService/latest/SQSDeveloperGuide/throughput.html | 21:51 |
| kgriffs | also, Rackspace did some benchmarking last summer | 21:53 |
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| vkmc | good stuff | 21:53 |
| kgriffs | found that requests were rate-limited to 300/sec for each ip (server) | 21:53 |
| kgriffs | I will note this on the performance etherpad | 21:53 |
| kgriffs | ok | 21:54 |
| kgriffs | #topic open discussion | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: zaqar)" | 21:54 | |
| kgriffs | so, you all notice the monster [all] thread about future of integrated projects? | 21:55 |
| vkmc | yeah | 21:56 |
| vkmc | there are mixed positions about Zaqar | 21:57 |
| kgriffs | there always have been. :p | 21:58 |
| kgriffs | of course, you also saw people piling on ceilometer and heat | 21:58 |
| kgriffs | i think people are using this as an excuse to try and get rid of projects they personally don't agree with | 21:59 |
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| kgriffs | but even so | 21:59 |
| kgriffs | seems like there was rough agreement not to graduate anything unless it has proven it is "production ready" - either through deployments or extensive testing | 21:59 |
| vkmc | yeah of course... but I read really bad, unjustified, comments | 21:59 |
| kgriffs | yep | 21:59 |
| kgriffs | it is a shame that people can get away with those kinds of comments | 22:00 |
| kgriffs | anyway, we better bring this up with flaper87|afk when he is back | 22:00 |
| vkmc | yeah | 22:00 |
| vkmc | sure :) | 22:00 |
| kgriffs | it presents a significant risk for graduating this cycle | 22:00 |
| kgriffs | even if we ostensibly check every box in the grad requirements doc | 22:01 |
| flwang | kgriffs: yes, it's a bad news | 22:01 |
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| kgriffs | anyway, let's regroup and chat with more of the team to decide our response. | 22:02 |
| kgriffs | anything else before we close? | 22:02 |
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| flwang | i'm good | 22:05 |
| kgriffs | for the record, I don't bear the TC any ill-will. While I sometimes do not agree with the positions of every member, I respect their experience and understand they have a super tough job. We should look for constructive ways to handle concerns without causing divides in the community. | 22:05 |
| kgriffs | anyway, keep up the good work folks. | 22:06 |
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| kgriffs | #endmeeting | 22:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:06 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Aug 18 22:06:35 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:06 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-08-18-21.11.html | 22:06 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-08-18-21.11.txt | 22:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zaqar/2014/zaqar.2014-08-18-21.11.log.html | 22:06 |
| kgriffs | can someone grab the minutes? | 22:06 |
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| flwang | yes, I do | 22:07 |
| kgriffs | thanks! | 22:09 |
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