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| krotscheck | #startmeeting storyboard | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 16 15:00:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:00 | |
| ttx | o/ | 15:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 15:00 |
| krotscheck | Roll call! | 15:00 |
| ttx | \o | 15:00 |
| NikitaKonovalov | hi | 15:01 |
| krotscheck | #topic Validate Project and Project Group Names. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Validate Project and Project Group Names. (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:01 | |
| ttx | I added it to the agenda because Nikita mentioned we shoudl discuss it at the meeting | 15:01 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so, yep | 15:02 |
| krotscheck | Righto, so what’s the summary? | 15:02 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98728/ | 15:02 |
| * krotscheck is reading | 15:02 | |
| NikitaKonovalov | The idea of making projects' names shorter is not that simple as it looks like | 15:02 |
| jeblair | o/ | 15:03 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ttx said we should keep full names with a slash inside | 15:03 |
| krotscheck | Was that a goal of project group? I thought it was more of an arbitrary organization thing. | 15:03 |
| ttx | I think validating project and projectgroup names is good -- I just don't think we can assume that the / in there aligns to projectgroup boundaries | 15:03 |
| NikitaKonovalov | it means we cant use this name in a url | 15:03 |
| ttx | so let's take an example | 15:04 |
| ttx | we have the storyboard API project. It maps to a repository called openstack-infra/storyboard. It belongs to several project groups, including "Infrastructure" and "All of Storyboard" | 15:04 |
| ttx | What should the "project name" be ? | 15:05 |
| ttx | should the name be the git repo name ? | 15:05 |
| ttx | (that's what it currently is) | 15:06 |
| jeblair | to elaborate on ttx's point (which i agree with), the '/' in git repo names is more or less ignored by gerrit -- there is no hierarchy there. the only place that assumes that kind of hierarchy is github (which is an ancillary tool; not something that storyboard is designed for tight interaction with (though it should be _compatible_) | 15:06 |
| jeblair | ) | 15:06 |
| ttx | I think one project = one git repo, so the name should be the same | 15:06 |
| * krotscheck thinks that the git repo should be a property of a project, but not tightly coupled to the name/title | 15:06 | |
| NikitaKonovalov | btw' are there projects w/o repos? | 15:07 |
| ttx | krotscheck: that would work as well. The name would be an alias | 15:07 |
| mordred | there have certainly been a request for them recently | 15:07 |
| ttx | like "Storyboard API side" -> openstack-infra/storyboard | 15:07 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 15:07 |
| ttx | I'm fine with that, as long as we keep the 1:1 mapping | 15:07 |
| mordred | yah. and project groups were to encode that storyboard and storyboard-webclient are really both parts of "Storyboard" | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Right - OpenStack would just happen to have the convention that project name == gerrit name. | 15:07 |
| krotscheck | Because that’s easy to remember. | 15:07 |
| ttx | (1:n being modeled by projectgroups, basically) | 15:08 |
| ttx | krotscheck: +1 | 15:08 |
| ttx | so Nikita's point is that "/" make unfriendly URLs | 15:08 |
| ttx | although gerrit survives them alright | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: There aren’t any right now, because (I think) jeepyb currently autocreates a repo whenever we add a project. There’s been a request for them though, just a lack of teaching jeepyb to do that thing we want it to. | 15:09 |
| mordred | krotscheck: yah. and also, lack of clarity if we _should_ support that or not | 15:09 |
| ttx | so he would prefer excluding "/" from project names, and goes on to use "/" as a way to separate projectgroups and project names at autocreation time | 15:10 |
| mordred | or if we should assume that something should get a git repo even if it doesn't use it | 15:10 |
| ttx | I think we should just accept "/" in project names. | 15:10 |
| krotscheck | Angular doesn’t care about /’s in the URL, because it handles its own URL parsing in everything after the ‘#’. I think WSME/Pecan care though. | 15:10 |
| krotscheck | mordred: That too | 15:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx ++ | 15:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | krotscheck, I think Pecan will ignore it after # | 15:11 |
| NikitaKonovalov | we are not passing anything with a # to pecan | 15:11 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so it should never know | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | SergeyLukjanov: It will, but all of our API requests are pure URI's. | 15:11 |
| krotscheck | #! routing is a javascript thing only | 15:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | krotscheck, oh, it was bad idea ;) | 15:11 |
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| jeblair | it seems slightly wasteful+confusing to do that; i think my inclination would be to not create a repo unless one is actually desired | 15:12 |
| ttx | The alternate solution would be to use a simplified project name for every project (and have the repo name in a field) | 15:12 |
| mordred | jeblair: yah. same here | 15:12 |
| ttx | StoryBoard -> openstack-infra/storyboard | 15:12 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | If we are going to request projects by name from pecan, then simply escape all slashes or whatever | 15:12 |
| ttx | StoryBoard Webclient -> openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient | 15:12 |
| jeblair | ttx: that seems reasonable and compatible with krotscheck's suggestion of a few mins ago | 15:12 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: I can do that. | 15:13 |
| ttx | It would certainly increase readability | 15:13 |
| ttx | although that space i nthe second example is begging for abuse | 15:13 |
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| ttx | storyboard-api -> openstack-infra/storyboard | 15:13 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Maybe in titles, but we do want the ability to type in storyboard.o.o/#!/project/openstack/superpants | 15:14 |
| ttx | storyboard-webclient -> openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient | 15:14 |
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| ttx | dunno | 15:14 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so here’s what I got from NikitaKonovalov’s suggestion | 15:14 |
| mordred | I think I probably do | 15:14 |
| ttx | krotscheck: "openstack/" has no value in there | 15:14 |
| mordred | I mean, I could be wrong though | 15:14 |
| mordred | but I'm _really_ used to config's name being openstack-infra/config | 15:14 |
| krotscheck | ttx: It does, because it maps to gerrit | 15:14 |
| jeblair | so as a convention, we have required that project names be globally unique (not just within their github-org) | 15:14 |
| mordred | it would be weird to me to type storyboard.o.o/#!/project/config | 15:15 |
| ttx | hmm, I think I just prefer we bite the bullet and use the repo name | 15:15 |
| mordred | but I can also get over that if it makes everythign hard | 15:15 |
| krotscheck | So, mapping #!/project/name-with-slashes to /v1/api/projects/escaped-name-with-slashes is easy | 15:15 |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: agree | 15:15 |
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| krotscheck | Which means that in the URL, we use the git repo name because of convention. | 15:16 |
| krotscheck | Sorry, not git repo name, you know what I mean | 15:16 |
| krotscheck | With the slashes | 15:16 |
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| ttx | jeblair: so in theory we could say "storyboard" and have a field that is called github-org and that is used to build the full repo name | 15:16 |
| krotscheck | It just happens to be the title, because that’s what OpenSack convetion is all about | 15:16 |
| jeblair | gerrit uses: GET /a/changes/openstack-infra%2Fconfig | 15:17 |
| krotscheck | Perfect | 15:17 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so if it turns out that our naming validation on projects and project groups is : “Anything, you just have to escape it”, does it make sense to have any API-side validation at all? | 15:18 |
| jeblair | ttx: as long as it isn't called "github" org, but just "org" or something -- but i think it would be better to ignore it as much as possible so we can support 0-N levels of hierarchy | 15:18 |
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| mordred | jeblair: +10000 | 15:18 |
| NikitaKonovalov | the second part of this is Should the prefix be treated as a project group or as an origanization field for a project? | 15:19 |
| ttx | jeblair: I for one don't look forward to having new SB/gerrit mapping tables to replace the LP/Gerrit ones | 15:19 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Neither, I think. If it’s a string, then the full title is the string. | 15:19 |
| ttx | so I'm fine with using repo names directly | 15:19 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: agree | 15:20 |
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| ttx | My only gripe with using full repo names is that they eat valuable space, but I'm pretty sure we can optimize that. Like if there is what appears to be a github-org prefix, display it nicely | 15:21 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ok, then we keep the titles as they are, and the only thing needed to support them in urls is making projects API work with names | 15:22 |
| krotscheck | What’s the full repo name thread about? I thought we were talking about names, where the project name will be ‘openstack-infra/storyboard’ by convention. | 15:22 |
| ttx | krotscheck: it's an orthogonal discussion, ignore me. i'll be back with it | 15:23 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Okie | 15:23 |
| krotscheck | Summary: | 15:23 |
| krotscheck | Project names are going to be escaped when they hit the API | 15:23 |
| krotscheck | And we need to make them unique. | 15:24 |
| krotscheck | Groups are not going to be automatically inferred from project names. | 15:24 |
| krotscheck | And the webclient will start using unescaped-project-name and parse it to escaped-project-name. | 15:24 |
| krotscheck | Did I miss anything? | 15:25 |
| mordred | krotscheck: that seems like an excellent summary | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | Any disagreements? | 15:25 |
| NikitaKonovalov | names are already unique by constraint https://github.com/openstack-infra/storyboard/blob/master/storyboard/db/models.py#L141 | 15:25 |
| ttx | +1 | 15:25 |
| jeblair | +1 | 15:25 |
| krotscheck | Cool, let’s move on. | 15:26 |
| krotscheck | #topic Specs | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:26 | |
| krotscheck | Go talk about specs in the specs repo! | 15:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | krotscheck, +1 re prev point | 15:27 |
| krotscheck | So we have three specs out there: Tagging, Search, Subscriptions | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | The first two are still under active discussion, the latter seems to have settled? | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | I wouldn’t mind having mordred or jeblair look at it though | 15:28 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I had a question about your comments on tags | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | Or, well, anyone form infra-core who’s familiar with how queues break down when under load. | 15:28 |
| krotscheck | Ok, let’s talk about tags! | 15:29 |
| krotscheck | #topic Spec: Tags | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec: Tags (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:29 | |
| krotscheck | What’s up? | 15:29 |
| mordred | tags like lazer tag? | 15:29 |
| mordred | cause that's fun | 15:29 |
| ttx | krotscheck: tags are keywords, and you seem to hint you'd like to use them as a more generic name/value thing | 15:29 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: looking forward to it, thanks | 15:29 |
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| ttx | a property that could be attached to any object | 15:30 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Generic, yes. Name/value no. I’m starting to see them as our associations. | 15:30 |
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| krotscheck | So, for instance, if there are several people working on a task, that is represented at two tags that link task-to-user | 15:31 |
| ttx | krotscheck: that's quite different from what I'm proposing. I'm not sure we can tweak my proposal until it does that instead of what I had in mind | 15:31 |
| mordred | is it possible you're each talking about different features and both of them happen to be called "tag" ? | 15:32 |
| ttx | maybe you should draft a separate one to explain what you start to see... it certainly sounds more ambitious than my lowly Launchpad tag equivalent | 15:32 |
| krotscheck | mordred: That’s what I’m thinkign | 15:32 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 15:33 |
| ttx | "My" tag is just about assocaiting keywords to stories, to get the same functionality we have with LP bug, a feature that we've come to rely on | 15:33 |
| mordred | like "this is a gate bug" | 15:33 |
| jeblair | mordred: ++ | 15:33 |
| ttx | associating them to stories let us get the benefit for bugs *and* blueprints. | 15:33 |
| jeblair | or low-hanging-fruit, etc | 15:33 |
| mordred | yah. low-hanging-fruit | 15:33 |
| mordred | although I still dont' think we use that one well | 15:34 |
| ttx | it's just a loose way to allow free-form categorization | 15:34 |
| jeblair | mordred: mostly because we don't use bugs well | 15:34 |
| ttx | krotscheck: that's what my spec is about... so i'm not sure how I should address your comments | 15:34 |
| krotscheck | I still think they can be one and the same, but I’ll happily write up a spec to explain what I’m trying to accomplish. | 15:34 |
| ttx | krotscheck: and i'll happily read it. As long as we can get the same functionality I'm looking for, I'm certainly open to an implementation that opens up more possibilities | 15:35 |
| krotscheck | Works for me :)( | 15:35 |
| krotscheck | :) | 15:35 |
| ttx | the trick generally being... opening those extra possibilities without making the basic one unusable :) | 15:35 |
| krotscheck | Honestly, I think that what you want is the first step to what I want. | 15:35 |
| ttx | krotscheck: cool, we could even approve BOTH specs! | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | MADNESS | 15:36 |
| mordred | zomg | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so action for me: Write a generic tagging spec. | 15:36 |
| krotscheck | We’ve got the search spec out there as well, anything you want to discuss NikitaKonovalov? | 15:37 |
| NikitaKonovalov | the main discussion there is what should the query look like | 15:37 |
| ttx | krotscheck: if there is time at the end of the meeting, i'd like to present https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Roadmap again | 15:38 |
| ttx | since last week it was just Nikita and me | 15:38 |
| mordred | ++ | 15:38 |
| NikitaKonovalov | we can keep discussing it there | 15:38 |
| krotscheck | ttx: kk | 15:38 |
| krotscheck | ALright | 15:38 |
| krotscheck | #topic Ongoing work | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing work (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:39 | |
| krotscheck | Today in REVERSE ALPHABETICAL ORDER | 15:39 |
| krotscheck | yolanda’s not here, she’s working on timestamps and date display, and sent me a directive that I need to debg | 15:39 |
| krotscheck | ttx? | 15:39 |
| ttx | The roadmap is basically taking the Juno etherpad, but I added a new milestone based on a suggestion from mordred. I think it nicely splits the MVP 1.2 work into more manageable chunks | 15:39 |
| *** coolsvap|afk is now known as coolsvap | 15:39 | |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Roadmap | 15:40 |
| mordred | eek. giving me credit for ideas is scary | 15:40 |
| jeblair | so, use openstack projects drop blueprints first, before bugs | 15:40 |
| ttx | we basically implement the features needed to get integrated projects to use StoryBoard for feature planning, before the ones needed to get them to use it to track bugs | 15:40 |
| jeblair | sounds reasonable, and i like the ramp-up aspect to it | 15:41 |
| ttx | it's just a sane way to prioritize that big chunk of features | 15:41 |
| krotscheck | Makes sens | 15:41 |
| ttx | not sure how many projects will take the bait | 15:41 |
| ttx | but in all cases that chunk was just too big, so splitting it made sense | 15:41 |
| jeblair | ttx: we pretty much have to tell people not to use storyboard all the time. :) | 15:41 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I'm pretty sure you completed a few of those 1.1 lines, so feel free to edit that wiki page | 15:42 |
| mordred | can I disagree with two of the thigns on that wiki? | 15:42 |
| ttx | mordred: hey, it's a wiki. OH WAIT WHAT? | 15:42 |
| * krotscheck has tried to get mordred not to disagree on other things without much success. | 15:42 | |
| mordred | "task ordering" - blueprints doesnt have that right now | 15:43 |
| * krotscheck apparently likes his triple negatives, too. | 15:43 | |
| ttx | mordred: they actually havce | 15:43 |
| mordred | and we use them? | 15:43 |
| jeblair | mordred: yeah, work items | 15:43 |
| ttx | mordred: it's called work items | 15:43 |
| mordred | and we use them? | 15:43 |
| jeblair | i just saw them used the other day | 15:43 |
| mordred | oh. ok | 15:43 |
| mordred | nevermind then | 15:43 |
| ttx | mordred: we don't really use blueprints! So that's unfair. | 15:43 |
| jeblair | mordred: i was like "oh yeah, that exists" :) | 15:43 |
| mordred | I didn't think openstack used them | 15:43 |
| ttx | mordred: but I see your point | 15:44 |
| mordred | I guess what I'm trying to say is that we dont need to be feature complete with blueprints -we need to be feature complete with our incomplete usage of them | 15:44 |
| ttx | it's just that to make a set of tasks useful in a blueprint setting, you kinda need to be able to order them | 15:44 |
| mordred | sure | 15:44 |
| ttx | to be feature complete with blueprints you'd have to allow only a single task in a blueprint story. | 15:44 |
| *** emagana has quit IRC | 15:44 | |
| krotscheck | FYI, I’m cutting this discussion off in 5 minutes, we need to give time for NikitaKonovalov and I to give summaries. | 15:44 |
| jeblair | yeah, i think task ordering makes the cutoff for "usable with, borderline-unusable without", especially for a significant story | 15:44 |
| jeblair | (without it, people would probably have to duplicate the info in the description to get it ordered) | 15:45 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 15:45 |
| mordred | I think I'm good with the wiki description in general then | 15:45 |
| ttx | that's all I had. tried to spend time on reviews last week. Will do more. | 15:45 |
| krotscheck | Thanks, ttx- we did land some good ones. | 15:45 |
| mordred | although I think we need bulk import before 1.2.1 ... but that's not what we're talking about | 15:45 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so summary of the roadmap: Task ordering is something we want? | 15:46 |
| jeblair | yeah, that's in 1.1.1, but i think it may need to be in 1.1 | 15:46 |
| mordred | jeblair: oh! my bad. I was equating "bulk import" from the future with "lp data import" | 15:47 |
| * mordred shuts up | 15:47 | |
| NikitaKonovalov | krotscheck: I've been busy with my university graduation last week, and we had holidays is Russia | 15:47 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: You graduated? | 15:47 |
| NikitaKonovalov | pretty much | 15:47 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: AWESOME | 15:47 |
| mordred | NikitaKonovalov: congratualtions! | 15:47 |
| ttx | and I thought French people were the only ones to have holidays | 15:47 |
| * krotscheck puts on a party hat | 15:47 | |
| mordred | krotscheck: you arent' still wearing one? | 15:48 |
| NikitaKonovalov | so I was updating my Search spec and will continue doing that | 15:48 |
| krotscheck | mordred: no, there was a very insistent gentleman who took it off with his teeth. | 15:48 |
| * krotscheck has no idea why | 15:48 | |
| mordred | oh my | 15:48 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Ok. I’m starting to work on the UI section of search btw. | 15:48 |
| krotscheck | So about that. | 15:48 |
| krotscheck | I discovered thu/fri that there’s actually enough search-like functionality in storyboard to build out the UI I had in mind for search | 15:49 |
| mordred | ooh neat | 15:49 |
| krotscheck | So I’m working on that, and the mulit-resource search and routing is already all there. | 15:49 |
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| krotscheck | The missing piece is the advanced input field | 15:49 |
| krotscheck | So you can search via the header, but that search string isn’t persisted into the actual search UI | 15:50 |
| krotscheck | I’ve been doing that because my work on subscriptions is currently pending on config review | 15:50 |
| krotscheck | First this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98007/ | 15:50 |
| krotscheck | Then this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98474/ | 15:50 |
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| krotscheck | The first one grew out of the openstack-ci/puppet-storyboard disucssion where I’m tying to bring the two modules in sync with each other so we can eventually move infra over to the one in openstack-ci | 15:51 |
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| krotscheck | And in reality, the approach I’m taking is ‘doing a lot of work in infra-config, and then copying it over to openstack-ci | 15:52 |
| jeblair | what's openstack-ci? | 15:52 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Argh | 15:52 |
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| jeblair | do you mean openstack-infra? | 15:52 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: That’s be being stupdi | 15:52 |
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| krotscheck | Yea | 15:52 |
| krotscheck | Eventually all that work will land here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96290/ | 15:53 |
| jeblair | okay, i'm confused because aren't we running the puppet that's in openstack-infra? | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: yes | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | Which I thought was a bit confusing too. | 15:53 |
| jeblair | or do you mean moving from openstack-infra/config to openstack-infra/puppet-storyboard? | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | yes | 15:53 |
| jeblair | that's a plan i'm fully in support of :) | 15:54 |
| krotscheck | Right | 15:54 |
| mordred | so the idea is to make all of the changes you would make to make a standalone module _in_ the config tree | 15:54 |
| krotscheck | I would like to get the puppet module cleaned up a bit before moving over to puppet-storyboard though | 15:54 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: that's a fine idea | 15:54 |
| mordred | then land that as a patch to the empty puppet-storyboard repo | 15:54 |
| krotscheck | And then to copy it all over. | 15:54 |
| mordred | yes | 15:54 |
| jeblair | yup | 15:54 |
| krotscheck | Right. | 15:54 |
| mordred | this is excelelnt plan | 15:54 |
| krotscheck | So: Step one - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98007/ | 15:54 |
| krotscheck | Step two: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98474/ | 15:54 |
| krotscheck | Step three: copy step one and two to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96290/ | 15:55 |
| krotscheck | Though technically step two can happen anywhere | 15:55 |
| * krotscheck is a little worried about the maount of work he’s already put into subscriptions without having the spec approved. | 15:56 | |
| krotscheck | But that’s my summary | 15:56 |
| krotscheck | #topic Open Discussion | 15:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:56 | |
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| mordred | krotscheck: I haven't followed the rabbit things ... which thing should I read to learn more about that? | 15:57 |
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| krotscheck | mordred: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95307/ | 15:57 |
| krotscheck | mordred: Subscription spec | 15:57 |
| mordred | thank you | 15:57 |
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| krotscheck | ANy other open discussion topics? | 15:58 |
| krotscheck | Alright, let’s call it :) | 15:59 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad openid is down. login to openstack services will fail until launchpad openid is happy again" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 16 15:59:37 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-06-16-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-06-16-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: thanks | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-06-16-15.00.log.html | 15:59 |
| ttx | krotscheck: thx! | 15:59 |
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