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| carl_baldwin | hi all | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
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| carl_baldwin | Let’s get started. | 15:00 |
| carl_baldwin | #startmeeting neutron_l3 | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 22 15:00:48 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_l3' | 15:00 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Announcements | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:01 | |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-L3-Subteam | 15:01 |
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| carl_baldwin | Summit was great! Lot's of energy and a lot of good work to come. | 15:01 |
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| armax | yup! | 15:01 |
| carl_baldwin | Neutron mid-cycle meeting for Juno is set for July 9-11. I've got my travel arrangements already. Do you? | 15:02 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-juno-mid-cycle-meeting | 15:02 |
| roaet | presents | 15:02 |
| armax | not yet ony my end | 15:02 |
| roaet | I do not have plans set up either. | 15:02 |
| carl_baldwin | I hope to see many of you there. | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Bugs | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:03 | |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=l3-ipam-dhcp | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | I’ll be adding this section to the meeting each week as I’ll be working more on bug triage, especially where this tag is applied. | 15:03 |
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| carl_baldwin | None of the bugs stick out to me today as urgent but I haven’t been through them all. | 15:04 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic l3-svcs-vendor-* | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "l3-svcs-vendor-* (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:04 | |
| carl_baldwin | pcm__: ping | 15:04 |
| carl_baldwin | Your session at the summit was very informative. It got me up to speed. | 15:05 |
| pcm__ | thanks! | 15:05 |
| amuller | Have to get going guys, just stopped by to say hi and that it was great meeting everyone at the summit | 15:05 |
| * pcm__ trying to engage in two meetings at once :( | 15:05 | |
| carl_baldwin | amuller: Thanks. We’ll be in touch. | 15:05 |
| roaet | I'm not sure who I met, but whoever I did it was nice to meet you. | 15:06 |
| carl_baldwin | pcm__: I know the feeling. Have you filed a bug for that third item? | 15:06 |
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| pcm__ | carl_baldwin: sorry, which item? | 15:07 |
| carl_baldwin | We could use reviews on the spec here: https://review.openstack.org/88406 | 15:07 |
| carl_baldwin | pcm__: There was the problem where the client validates over aggressively. | 15:07 |
| pcm__ | ah, that one. No. Not yet. Plan to do that. | 15:07 |
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| pcm__ | Thought is to remove validation of enum fields from client (already no validation of integer fields) | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | #action pcm__ will file a bug for client validation problem. | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will review https://review.openstack.org/88406 | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | ^ I encourage others to review the blueprints as well. | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | pcm__: Anything else? | 15:09 |
| pcm__ | For validation... I was thinking about separating the validation from the persistence. | 15:09 |
| carl_baldwin | That sounds like a good thing. | 15:09 |
| pcm__ | This way, if/when we go to TaskFlow, we'll have discrete tasks. In the meantime, I can try to | 15:09 |
| carl_baldwin | Is that spelled out in your blueprint? | 15:10 |
| pcm__ | allow provider to override the validation (since it will be separate) | 15:10 |
| pcm__ | BP needs to be updated to reflect summit items. | 15:10 |
| pcm__ | will work that too. | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | #action pcm__ To update blueprint from summit discussion. | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | pcm__: Thanks. Keep up the good work. | 15:11 |
| pcm__ | sure. np. | 15:11 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic bgp-dynamic-routing | 15:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bgp-dynamic-routing (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:11 | |
| roaet | carl_baldwin: btw grats on the nomination for core, quite deserved | 15:11 |
| carl_baldwin | nextone92: I thought the session went well. I heard a lot of support in the room. | 15:11 |
| carl_baldwin | roaet: Thanks. | 15:11 |
| nextone92 | Thank you | 15:11 |
| nextone92 | It was a great opportunity to learn requirements and use cases for dynamic routing :) | 15:12 |
| carl_baldwin | I’ve heard good things since summit as well from a few people who did not speak up in the room. | 15:12 |
| * pcm__ clapping | 15:12 | |
| carl_baldwin | Do you have any action items out of it? | 15:12 |
| nextone92 | Jaume and I are working to incorporate the comments and to work through the use cases of the new agent | 15:12 |
| nextone92 | We have collected feedback from the in-person discussion, the session, and over the email | 15:13 |
| carl_baldwin | Great, ping the ML when you’ve posted a new draft of the blueprint. I’d like to see the improved blueprint. | 15:13 |
| nextone92 | Great! Looking forward to more feedback after that | 15:14 |
| carl_baldwin | Do you have any idea what milestone you are looking to target with the implementation? | 15:14 |
| nextone92 | I will take an action item to create the schedule estimate for next meeting | 15:14 |
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| carl_baldwin | nextone92: Great. | 15:15 |
| nextone92 | #action nextone92 Provide BGP dynamic routing schedule | 15:15 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic *-dns-resolution | 15:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "*-dns-resolution (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:15 | |
| carl_baldwin | I’m still working on the blueprints for this. There are a few points to work out. I’ll be addressing feedback but otherwise this topic is going to have to wait until DVR is merged. | 15:16 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic IPAM | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "IPAM (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:17 | |
| * roaet salutes | 15:17 | |
| carl_baldwin | roaet: hi | 15:17 |
| roaet | I have put up a very simple implementation that I believe most people can agree with on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ipam_pod in the Implementation Details | 15:17 |
| carl_baldwin | I was pleased to see the grass roots energy around this topic at the summit and recently in IRC and on ML. | 15:17 |
| roaet | Indeed, a lot of people showed up to the pod | 15:18 |
| roaet | I'm wondering any of those people are here so they can comment on the implementation. | 15:18 |
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| roaet | carl_baldwin: did you find any blueprints that you wished to use as the spearhead of this, or are we just going to use them all? | 15:19 |
| carl_baldwin | I took a look through them. They were varied. | 15:19 |
| carl_baldwin | We should try to consolidate. | 15:20 |
| roaet | agree. | 15:20 |
| carl_baldwin | I think that Sumit’s blueprint is the closest to where we want to start. But, it doesn’t have much detail. | 15:20 |
| roaet | As far as direction goes henceforth, I guess it's a matter of gathering more input on that very simple implementation and reviewing people's current implementation proposals? | 15:20 |
| carl_baldwin | Yes. We should probably submit a design specification to Neutron specs. | 15:21 |
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| carl_baldwin | I’ll work on consolidating the existing blueprints. | 15:22 |
| roaet | I am not familiar with that step. | 15:22 |
| roaet | I assume it's documented somewhere, I"ll look around, but if you have it avail... | 15:22 |
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| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin to work with blueprint owners to consolidate. | 15:22 |
| carl_baldwin | There is a wiki page. Does anyone have the neutron-specs wiki page link on hand? | 15:23 |
| salv-orlando | car;_baldwin: happy to help in defining design and or reviewing it | 15:23 |
| carl_baldwin | roaet: The whole process is very new. | 15:23 |
| salv-orlando | carl_baldwin: ^^ | 15:23 |
| roaet | salv-orlando: i'd appreciate your input | 15:23 |
| salv-orlando | As with anything, two core-devs is better than one ;) | 15:23 |
| carl_baldwin | salv-orlando: Great | 15:23 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprints#Neutron | 15:24 |
| roaet | i found https://github.com/openstack/neutron-specs | 15:24 |
| roaet | oh, this is that thing voss was talking about. I'll need to ping people on the right way to do this. | 15:25 |
| carl_baldwin | roaet: Admittedly, there is a learning curve if you haven’t written RST but the whole process is a huge improvement over what we had before. | 15:25 |
| carl_baldwin | roaet: There is a very good sample document to start with. | 15:25 |
| roaet | I am a fan of rst, so I'll have that going for me. | 15:25 |
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| roaet | carl_baldwin: ok. I'll work on making that so it can be reviewed properly. | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | #action roaet to propose specification. | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | Anything else? | 15:26 |
| roaet | that is it, thank you. | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | roaet: thank you. | 15:27 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic rootwrap | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rootwrap (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:28 | |
| carl_baldwin | I’ll give a quick update on this. | 15:28 |
| carl_baldwin | There was a meeting in the oslo track about the rootwrap daemon mode. | 15:28 |
| carl_baldwin | They did not have any reason not to go forward with the daemon mode implementation by YorikSar. | 15:29 |
| carl_baldwin | A few of them will review the blueprints and provide feedback on the implementation. | 15:29 |
| carl_baldwin | I probably won’t have this subject on the agenda past today. Bookmark the topic in gerrit and review it. | 15:31 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/rootwrap-daemon-mode,n,z | 15:31 |
| salv-orlando | can we then integrate it smoothly in neutron or do you think we will need to adapt some modules? | 15:31 |
| carl_baldwin | salv-orlando: Good question. That was a point of discussion at the summit. | 15:32 |
| carl_baldwin | Yuriy has proposed some code that integrates it. | 15:32 |
| carl_baldwin | salv-orlando: You’ll find the proposal in the topic linked ^ | 15:32 |
| salv-orlando | ok great. thatconcludes the discussion then, I think | 15:33 |
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| carl_baldwin | salv-orlando: It may be a little behind the discussion. | 15:34 |
| salv-orlando | carl_baldwin: that's ok, I meant the discussion here, in this meeting | 15:34 |
| carl_baldwin | The general sentiment was that probably more of the integration could be implemented in oslo than neutron. | 15:34 |
| carl_baldwin | Oh, I see. | 15:34 |
| salv-orlando | being the point of contact between oslo and neutron I should probably look at that :/ | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | Please do. It will be greatly appreciated. | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: ping | 15:36 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic neutron-ovs-dvr | 15:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "neutron-ovs-dvr (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:36 | |
| carl_baldwin | I don’t see Swami around. | 15:36 |
| carl_baldwin | I do know that work on DVR is moving along and picking up. I grabbed a few nodes in our development environment and I’m currently in the process of building up my own little DVR deployment. | 15:37 |
| nextone92 | Is there a way to run DVR on devstack? | 15:38 |
| carl_baldwin | nextone92: I plan to start with devstack. | 15:38 |
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| carl_baldwin | I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t and it needs to. | 15:39 |
| carl_baldwin | I’ll admit I haven’t run a multi-node devstack yet. | 15:39 |
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| nextone92 | Great! | 15:40 |
| carl_baldwin | A colleague sitting next to me has and is willing to share his experience with me. | 15:40 |
| carl_baldwin | The setup will help with DVR and with VRRP which I’ve been meaning to test out as well. | 15:40 |
| carl_baldwin | I will document what I learn through the process for the next meeting. | 15:41 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: hi | 15:41 |
| Swami | hi | 15:42 |
| Swami | carl: Am I too late for the dvr update | 15:42 |
| carl_baldwin | We were just discussing running DVR in devstack. | 15:42 |
| Swami | good topic | 15:43 |
| carl_baldwin | You’re not too late. I’ve been saving DVR until the end because I know you can’t join early. | 15:43 |
| Swami | we need to have a multinode setup to run the DVR in devstack | 15:43 |
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| carl_baldwin | Swami: I have carved out time to try this out and document it for the community. | 15:43 |
| Swami | I am planning to put together a Wiki to run multinode setup with the DVR | 15:43 |
| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin to document experience getting DVR going with devstack in a multi-node configuration. | 15:44 |
| Swami | carl: Do you have a workable config that runs devstack in multinode setup right now. | 15:44 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: I will be glad to help out. | 15:44 |
| Swami | carl: thanks | 15:44 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: I’m part way through. I’ve just identified some nodes in our dev environment to do it on and I’ve installed the base OS. | 15:44 |
| Swami | who ever first attempts it can provide information | 15:45 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: Will you create a wiki page stub so that we can have a URL to collaborate on? | 15:45 |
| Swami | I got a config file from Kyle for mulitnode setup I will forward it to you | 15:45 |
| Swami | Yes I do have a Wiki already. I will post the link | 15:45 |
| carl_baldwin | Great. | 15:46 |
| Swami | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/DVR/HowTo | 15:46 |
| Swami | You can use this place to update your findings | 15:46 |
| carl_baldwin | I will, thanks. | 15:46 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: How was the DVR meeting yesterday? | 15:47 |
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| Swami | it went well. | 15:48 |
| Swami | I think you left during the services discussion | 15:48 |
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| Swami | We had some discussion about where to handle the FWaaS for the DVR scenario. | 15:48 |
| carl_baldwin | Yes. Sorry to bug out. | 15:48 |
| Swami | I have asked Yiun to come up with his ideas to apply the FWaaS for the DVR. Vivek and Rajeev also provided some ideas. | 15:49 |
| Swami | We will be capturing those ideas in the coming week and will probably walk through. | 15:49 |
| Swami | We also discussed about the VPNaaS and its impact. | 15:49 |
| Swami | Right now there might not be too much impact for the VPN, just some code refactoring to schedule the VPN Service in the Service Node when associated with the DVR router. | 15:50 |
| Swami | This week our main focus is to fix all the broken Unit tests by the introduction of the DVR | 15:50 |
| Swami | it affects many plugins out there and we are cherry picking and fixing it. | 15:51 |
| carl_baldwin | Swami: I did get your email about that. | 15:51 |
| carl_baldwin | It can be labor intensive to fix unit tests. | 15:51 |
| Swami | Yes, you are right. | 15:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: regarding fwaas, we also have DVR as a standing item on our FWaaS meeting | 15:52 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: Yes Yiun mentioned that he will take it up to the FWaaS team. | 15:52 |
| carl_baldwin | SumitNaiksatam: what are your thoughts overall? | 15:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: if you get a chance, you can chime in that discussion as well, just to reinforce the discussion here | 15:52 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: Sorry I missed yesterday's meeting since I was busy with other work. I will chime in | 15:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | carl_baldwin: we dont have a clear solution yet | 15:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | carl_baldwin: we are sifting through the options | 15:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: no worries at all, just a suggestion | 15:53 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: Thanks for accomodating the DVR/FWaaS requirements | 15:54 |
| carl_baldwin | SumitNaiksatam: Is the major concern that routing for each direction of east/west traffic is done on a different node and therefore cannot share state? | 15:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | carl_baldwin: yes | 15:54 |
| carl_baldwin | Are there other concerns? | 15:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | not that i am aware of at this point | 15:55 |
| carl_baldwin | SumitNaiksatam: Thank you. | 15:55 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | i have also requested Yi to start an email thread on this | 15:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | on the dev mailer | 15:55 |
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| carl_baldwin | SumitNaiksatam: Great. | 15:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | carl_baldwin: sure | 15:56 |
| Swami | SumitNaiksatam: Thanks sumit | 15:56 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | Swami: np | 15:56 |
| carl_baldwin | FYI, FWaaS meetings are on Wednesdays at 1830 UTC in this meeting room. | 15:56 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/FWaaS | 15:56 |
| carl_baldwin | I will put it on my calendar. | 15:56 |
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| carl_baldwin | Swami: anything else? | 15:57 |
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| Swami | That's all I had carl. | 15:57 |
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| carl_baldwin | Swami: thanks | 15:58 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic General Discussion | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_l3)" | 15:58 | |
| carl_baldwin | One minute left. ;) | 15:59 |
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| carl_baldwin | Thanks everyone! Have a great week. | 16:00 |
| carl_baldwin | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 22 16:00:10 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2014/neutron_l3.2014-05-22-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2014/neutron_l3.2014-05-22-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_l3/2014/neutron_l3.2014-05-22-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| Swami | bye | 16:00 |
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| pcm__ | bye | 16:01 |
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| rockyg | o/ | 17:08 |
| catherine|2 | Hello | 17:09 |
| ewindisch | o/ | 17:09 |
| ewindisch | I’m presuming the meeting isn’t happening at 9 after | 17:09 |
| praveen_dell | Hello all | 17:10 |
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| rockyg | I think I was on at 9, but nobody else was. My calendar alerted at 10 | 17:12 |
| catherine|3 | so we change the time? | 17:12 |
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| rockyg | don't know ping some folks on refstack channel | 17:15 |
| davidlenwell | hey .. we have room cross over | 17:15 |
| davidlenwell | sorry | 17:15 |
| davidlenwell | my fault | 17:15 |
| davidlenwell | I started things in alt | 17:16 |
| rockyg | oh. | 17:16 |
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| davidlenwell | lets all migrate there I guess | 17:17 |
| praveen_dell | where? | 17:17 |
| praveen_dell | migrate to refstack? | 17:17 |
| davidlenwell | #openstack-meeting-alt | 17:17 |
| praveen_dell | okay,thanks | 17:17 |
| rockyg | i'm there | 17:17 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | hello Neutron folks! | 18:00 |
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| prasadv | SumitNaiksatam: hello | 18:00 |
| banix | hi SumitNaiksatam prasadv | 18:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | prasadv banix: hi | 18:00 |
| banix | hi everybody | 18:00 |
| marun | hi | 18:00 |
| regXboi | one time I'm not actually pre-empted | 18:01 |
| s3wong | hello | 18:01 |
| banix | hi regXboi | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | give another minute and we can get rolling | 18:01 |
| banix | hi mandeep | 18:01 |
| banix | hi marun s3wong | 18:01 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok lets get started | 18:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #startmeeting networking_policy | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 22 18:01:59 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_policy' | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #info agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron_Group_Policy | 18:02 |
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| mandeep | banix: Hi | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | firstly, thanks to everyone for the participation in the during the summit | 18:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | more so to the team which actually worked on the PoC, great effort in pulling it together across projects in record time | 18:03 |
| rkukura | hi | 18:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | needless to say, it was very well received | 18:03 |
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| marun | uh | 18:04 |
| mandeep | Great work by SumitNaiksatam rkukura hemanthravi prasadv ronak rudrarugge | 18:04 |
| s3wong | yes, it was. banix, SumitNaiksatam, and me were mobbed after the presentation | 18:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: true | 18:04 |
| banix | i think it is fair to say the public at large was very supportive of the direction | 18:04 |
| mandeep | banix: Yes, I was viewing the presentation - very well done banix s3wong and SumitNaiksatam | 18:05 |
| banix | that is the need for policy abstractions | 18:05 |
| marun | I've sent an email to os-dev that paints a somewhat contradictory viewpoint. | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay to the first topic on the agenda | 18:05 |
| mandeep | (and I should have added banix and s3wong to my last list ;-) | 18:05 |
| mandeep | When did you send it marun | 18:05 |
| marun | just now I'm afraid. | 18:05 |
| mandeep | I did not see that | 18:05 |
| mandeep | OK | 18:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok lets follow the agenda items | 18:06 |
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| s3wong | marun: really? | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so that we can get all items covered | 18:06 |
| marun | I've added an item to the end of the agenda to discuss. | 18:06 |
| banix | marun: we are mainly referring to the need for policy abstractions and not specifically a particular model and approach etc | 18:06 |
| marun | so yes, let's move on. | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: good | 18:06 |
| mandeep | As it is just seconds before the meeting, we can not discuss to that I guess. | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i will just go based on the order currently in the agenda | 18:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Change of weekly meeting time | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Change of weekly meeting time (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 18:07 | |
| regXboi | banix added that at my request | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i thought we had good consensus on this time/day? | 18:07 |
| mandeep | Yes | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: ah ok | 18:07 |
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| mandeep | We finally got the meeting slot! | 18:07 |
| regXboi | problem is that this overlaps with the ODL TSC which is 2 hours | 18:07 |
| banix | conflicting with TCM at ODL | 18:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: actually we bounced off a few meetings times in the past | 18:07 |
| banix | TSC | 18:07 |
| regXboi | and several of the TSC members (myself included) are obligated to that | 18:07 |
| regXboi | and can't participate in this | 18:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and it was difficult to find an open openstack channel | 18:08 |
| mandeep | regXboi: We have tried quite a few slots and this is already the 3rd or 4th attempt | 18:08 |
| mandeep | I would rather not chnage it again, if possible | 18:08 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: perhaps pushing it earlier? I have a three hours slot between LBaaS and GP | 18:08 |
| regXboi | mandeep: you are basically saying to TSC folks that are also working ODL GBP "go away" | 18:08 |
| regXboi | but, I understand the problem with finding a good time | 18:09 |
| banix | regXboi: Starting one hour later would work? | 18:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: we should definitely try to accomodate every one to the extent possible | 18:09 |
| regXboi | starting one hour later would work | 18:09 |
| mandeep | My morniong is also filled up, then I guess I will go away? | 18:09 |
| s3wong | regXboi: I simply stopped attending the TSC meeting - but I can see you wouldn't be able to do that, as a TSC member :-) | 18:09 |
| banix | SumitNaiksatam: any chance we switch fwaas and this one? | 18:09 |
| prasadv | one hour later will not work for ODL GBP folks | 18:09 |
| banix | if others are ok with it that is | 18:10 |
| regXboi | um | 18:10 |
| regXboi | yes it will | 18:10 |
| s3wong | prasadv: correct, I suggested earlier | 18:10 |
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| prasadv | s3wong: earlier works | 18:10 |
| regXboi | is this a 60 minute or a longer irc? | 18:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: if we replace with fwaas, we will have two back-to-back heavy meetings (the former one is advanced services) | 18:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: this meeting is 60 min | 18:11 |
| regXboi | if it's 60 minutes, there is a window between the end of this slot and the GBP ODL | 18:11 |
| regXboi | er ODL GBP | 18:11 |
| banix | SumitNaiksatam: yeah confused the dates | 18:11 |
| regXboi | and to mandeep's point - I can't go earlier in the day | 18:11 |
| regXboi | I'm blocked solid until when this slot ends | 18:11 |
| mandeep | And I know that prasadv and hemanthravi travel after this call to the ODL call | 18:12 |
| regXboi | ah | 18:12 |
| regXboi | travel is an issue | 18:12 |
| prasadv | we travel to the meeting most of the time | 18:12 |
| regXboi | I'm remote to all of them... | 18:12 |
| s3wong | regXboi: travel as in 10 minutes drive :-) | 18:12 |
| banix | prasadv: you are very dedicated :) | 18:12 |
| regXboi | longer than sub-minute irc->hangout/webex flip | 18:12 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | okay, so lets bounce off some times off line | 18:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: any chance the ODL meeting can be moved? | 18:13 |
| regXboi | sure... in the meantime, I can load up banix | 18:13 |
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| regXboi | SumitNaiksatam: no | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: being optimistic :-) | 18:13 |
| regXboi | it's a 2-hour slot | 18:13 |
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| banix | regXboi: np; will try to find a better time. | 18:13 |
| regXboi | thanks all | 18:13 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic PoC status update | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PoC status update (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 18:13 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | so while we achieved most of what we set out to do for the PoC, there were a few loose ends | 18:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | our patches are in review in gerrit, but some people in the team will continue to focus on tying those loose ends | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura s3wong you want to fill on that? | 18:15 |
| regXboi | those loose ends being? | 18:15 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: on cue ^^^ :- | 18:15 |
| s3wong | rkukura: want to go first? | 18:15 |
| * regXboi can play the straight person | 18:15 | |
| rkukura | sure | 18:15 |
| rkukura | We had hoped to get the PoC to the point where the mapping driver was setting up neutron security groups to actually enforce some policy rules, but did not get that far. | 18:16 |
| LouisF | any work planned for redirect action? | 18:17 |
| rkukura | Right now, the mapping driver manages the neutron networks, subnets, port, and routers, with all access allowed. The security groups would let us deny traffic that is not explciity allowed. | 18:17 |
| s3wong | LouisF: that's me. It will be next after ruukura :-) | 18:17 |
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| banix | LouisF: hi Louis, good to see you here | 18:18 |
| rkukura | There are also some issues with allocating subnets from withint the RD’s supernet that need fixing. | 18:18 |
| LouisF | good to meet at summit | 18:18 |
| rkukura | So I thinkk it makes sense to continue to work towards these goals in the PoC/github code base in parallel with the work to merge lower layers to neutron’s repository. | 18:19 |
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| s3wong | rkukura: my turn? | 18:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: thanks | 18:19 |
| rkukura | SumitNaiksatam: Did you want me to mention some of the design changes we’ve been thinking about for the driver and driver API? | 18:20 |
| rkukura | or is that later? | 18:20 |
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| s3wong | OK - for the PoC, due to ease of unit testing and several pieces absence during my time of integration test, the redirect action takes place upon policy-action creation | 18:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: thats a different agenda item | 18:21 |
| s3wong | which isn't the right place, so the first thing I will do for post-PoC is to move it to contract creation, where it belongs | 18:21 |
| s3wong | Second, to properly do redirect to a service (UUID), we need ServiceBase Object support, whose bp is already in gerrit | 18:21 |
| s3wong | and coincidently, I (along with kanzhe) will be working on that | 18:22 |
| s3wong | so to implement 'redirect' action properly on the mapping driver, that ServiceBase effort is a bit of a dependency | 18:22 |
| LouisF | will ServiceBase be added to the POC branch? | 18:22 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | LouisF: service base is intended to get the adavanced services framework going | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | LouisF: so it has applicability beyond group policy | 18:23 |
| s3wong | LouisF: good question. In terms of checking in, the 'redirect' mapping driver part will obviously be after the ServiceBase work | 18:23 |
| SumitNaiksatam | LouisF: hopefully that will go in soon | 18:23 |
| s3wong | in terms of PoC branch, I think porting it there for unit testing purpose makes sense | 18:23 |
| songole | s3wong: is the redirect action specified on a rule or inside contract? | 18:24 |
| s3wong | but won't be part of the check-in, of course | 18:24 |
| s3wong | songole: redirect action, like all actions, is part of policy-rule | 18:24 |
| banix | songole: rule | 18:24 |
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| s3wong | that's it for me | 18:24 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: ok thanks | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | any questions for rkukura or s3wong in terms of the above update? | 18:25 |
| songole | s3wong: got it. thanks | 18:25 |
| SumitNaiksatam | $topic Gerrit reviews | 18:26 |
| LouisF | what branch is ServiceBase work on? | 18:26 |
| rkukura | SumitNaiksatam: use #topic | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Policy Model: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93853 | 18:26 |
| s3wong | LouisF: kanzhe and I will fork from Neutron to work on it - we are working on that now | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | Mapping Driver #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93935 | 18:26 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Gerrit reviews | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gerrit reviews (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 18:27 | |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: thanks :-) | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | above links dont change | 18:27 |
| s3wong | LouisF: if you are interested, please join us at the advanced service IRC meeting Wed 17:30 UTC on #openstack-meeting-3 | 18:27 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so the first patch only has two resources now, and is the first in a series | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the second patch is WIP, and is waiting for a few more patches to land on the model side | 18:28 |
| LouisF | hmm nobody on channel yesterday | 18:28 |
| SumitNaiksatam | but the second patch should give a good idea about the mapping driver implementation | 18:28 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | hopefully you all can review and provide constructive feedback | 18:29 |
| rkukura | The 2nd will also be broken up into smaller patches when its dependencies are ready | 18:29 |
| s3wong | LouisF: really? I was there yesterday, as were SumitNaiksatam, banix, kanzhe, rkukura, and many others... | 18:29 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: thanks | 18:29 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | LouisF: yes, we had the meeting yesterday (was a full house) | 18:29 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | any thoughts questions on the gerrit patches in review? | 18:30 |
| banix | we are trying to breakdown the patches to smaller pieces so the review process is easier; is this being helpful? | 18:31 |
| regXboi | I'll admit that I'm late to the party | 18:31 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: yeah good point | 18:31 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | ok perhaps it is helpful, since no counter opinions | 18:32 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Mapping driver | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mapping driver (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 18:32 | |
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| SumitNaiksatam | so rkukura wanted to spend a little bit of time on some the discussions around this topic | 18:33 |
| rkukura | ok | 18:33 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: i believe you had a few items on the agenda | 18:33 |
| markmcclain1 | SumitNaiksatam: had to step away for sec, but do have questions on the reviews | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #undo | 18:34 |
| rkukura | One question that came up during PoC implementation was whether the code that implicitly creates BDs and RDs when they are not passed in explicitly might not really be specific to the mapping driver, so maybe it should go in the plugin itself. | 18:34 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x380fe90> | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: one sec | 18:34 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: go ahead | 18:34 |
| markmcclain1 | SumitNaiksatam: even with the smaller patches it is impossible to review because the code series doesn't actually work | 18:35 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: not quite sure, what you mean by code series doesnt actually work? | 18:35 |
| mandeep | markmcclain1: Please explain. | 18:35 |
| rkukura | SumitNaiksatam, markmcclain1: Unit tests should pass, right? | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: yes they do | 18:36 |
| markmcclain1 | functionally it should work | 18:36 |
| markmcclain1 | UT should pass per chunk | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: there is only patch in the series right now | 18:36 |
| mandeep | And the entire policy can not be made to work with out all the policy objects being in place | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: not sure what your expectation is | 18:36 |
| mandeep | As requested by marun the patches are being split by resources | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: an entire functional patch was posted | 18:36 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: you refused to review it | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: becuause you wanted it broken down | 18:37 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: I pointed out why it was a problem weeks ago. | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: you got that | 18:37 |
| mandeep | So the patches are now split | 18:37 |
| markmcclain1 | but I should be able to grab the last in a series and actually run the extension and see changes to datapath | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: there is only in the series | 18:37 |
| rkukura | We’re breaking it up both by layers and by resources | 18:37 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: the others are coming | 18:37 |
| markmcclain1 | right the nice thing about breaking into patches is that code can be reviewed in chunks | 18:37 |
| markmcclain1 | but for functional testing the end result can be run | 18:38 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: sure, so you want that all patches be posted before you start reviewing? | 18:38 |
| mandeep | And we do not expect you to approve the patches until they fit together in a function chunk | 18:38 |
| markmcclain1 | yes otherwise we're just looking at one tree at a time to figure out what the forrest looks like | 18:38 |
| rkukura | That sounds nice in theory, but would basically force doing all the development outside the OpenStack gerrit environment, wouldn’t it? | 18:39 |
| marun | rkukura: Quite the opposite | 18:39 |
| mandeep | But the "tree" can be inspected for code issues and UTs etc | 18:39 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: yes, exactly for that reason there is also a PoC branch that be pulled and tested in entirety | 18:40 |
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| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: exactly | 18:40 |
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| markmcclain1 | gerrit will sequence the commits correctly | 18:40 |
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| banix | so i think we agree that the code will be rather large. So the question is how best we go about doing this in steps so the review can be done effectively. | 18:41 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: absolutely | 18:41 |
| mandeep | markmcclain1: Can I request that we chnage the discussion on - how can we make progress on it vs. why it can not work the way it is? | 18:41 |
| marun | As per my email, there is some question as to whether the proposed approach is actually the way forward in the short term. | 18:41 |
| rkukura | There is a lot of boilerplate and common patterns involved. We’ve been hoping to get closure on these on a small subset of resources, before putting all the othe resources into review. This seems to be a lot more efficient use of reviewers’ time. | 18:41 |
| mandeep | marun: I can not discuss that without having read it. | 18:42 |
| marun | then go read it. | 18:42 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: thats a good point | 18:42 |
| mandeep | I will. After this IRC | 18:42 |
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| marun | sure. then you won't be able to actually speak to my points. | 18:42 |
| marun | I started participating late in the game, and if i had known there was a simple approach, I would have pushed for it. | 18:42 |
| mandeep | I will respond on the ML | 18:42 |
| markmcclain1 | rkukura: you're right there is boilerplate | 18:42 |
| banix | marun: yes, just read your email: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-May/035666.html | 18:42 |
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| marun | 'the simplest thing that can possibly work' is generally the best thing. | 18:42 |
| prasadv | marun: can we discuss one topic at a time.. first can we resolve checkin and resolution process | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | for anyone who actually read through the patch, it is indeed very boilerplate | 18:43 |
| marun | especially when pushing new initiatives. | 18:43 |
| markmcclain1 | but the whole reason we started requiring implementations with APIs was because the lbaas API was so terrible | 18:43 |
| markmcclain1 | nobody really noticed until they tried to use it | 18:43 |
| mandeep | Yes, I want to avoid religious discussions as well. | 18:43 |
| mandeep | Let us focus on how to structure the checkin | 18:43 |
| SumitNaiksatam | okay, so let me stop this topic here | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | i think the expectation for some of the reviewers is that more patches land | 18:44 |
| marun | mandeep: To be blunt, the question that needs to be answered is 'are we solving the right problem' | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | before they get a better feel | 18:44 |
| marun | Rather than 'are we solving the problem right' | 18:44 |
| mandeep | marun: We can discuss that independly of what the questions are on the current check-in | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so lets do that (which I believe was the plan any way) | 18:44 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: does the address your concern as well? | 18:44 |
| mandeep | marun: So that later if you undertsand that what we are doing is correct we would not have wasted time | 18:45 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | marun mandeep: can i request you to hold your horses a bit | 18:45 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: OK | 18:45 |
| SumitNaiksatam | there is a topic in the agena, we can take it up at that time | 18:45 |
| banix | are there horses here? | 18:45 |
| banix | :) | 18:45 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: But I would prefer to get an answer on how to strcutre the patches | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mandeep: i think we have agreement that patches are structured in the right way | 18:46 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: Do we have agreement on what would be acceptable | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mandeep: just that more patches need to land | 18:46 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: Cool | 18:46 |
| markmcclain1 | SumitNaiksatam: yes ideally more functional units and if there is a logical way to separate them so that we don't get a series that's 20 deep that would be nice | 18:46 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: In that case, I am Ok to move on to the next phase | 18:46 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: you can either have smaller chunks, and but more patches, or bigger chunks with less patches :-) | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: i believe you wanted smaller chunks, in a series | 18:47 |
| markmcclain1 | I want both :) | 18:47 |
| mandeep | markmcclain1: Policy is a big item, you can not just solve a part of it | 18:47 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: well you will need to teach us to bend the laws of physics then | 18:48 |
| marun | mandeep: no comment | 18:48 |
| markmcclain1 | mandeep: fully aware.. just making sure that we have good items to test | 18:48 |
| mandeep | markmcclain1: Either that, or as a community we are not going to sign up to solving big problems | 18:48 |
| markmcclain1 | the lbaas experience from 2 yrs ago still haunts | 18:48 |
| rkukura | markmcclain1: Would building things up like we did in the PoC effort help - getting first the to where the Endpoint and EndpointGroup resources can be used as an alternative to directly using neutron resources first, the adding policy/contract/enforcement to this, help? | 18:48 |
| marun | mandeep: there are more than 1 ways to skin a cat | 18:48 |
| markmcclain1 | rkukura: that does seem like something that could prove workable | 18:49 |
| markmcclain1 | ie a series that gets us to Endpoints/Groups | 18:49 |
| mandeep | marun: I challenge you to show ONE real life policy based service deployment system that is "small" | 18:49 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: ok we should be able to endpoints and groups in less than 20 patches :-) | 18:49 |
| markmcclain1 | SumitNaiksatam: cool | 18:50 |
| marun | mandeep: I challenge you to find a single workable system that wasn't developed incrementally. | 18:50 |
| marun | (in open source) | 18:50 |
| mandeep | marun: This has been developed incrementally - week after week - you joined the party late | 18:50 |
| marun | mandeep: incrementally outside of oversight | 18:50 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok good, i think we have good agreement on the current approach, we need to get to the point where we have the EP and EPG in review soon | 18:51 |
| mandeep | marun: There was oversight | 18:51 |
| marun | mandeep: not from the wider neutron community | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | so we wil get to taht | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: sound okay? | 18:51 |
| mandeep | marun: the whole team worked on an open repo tigether | 18:51 |
| rkukura | marun: There has been an official neutron subteam working on this during the entire icehouse cycle, reporting at the neutron IRC meetings | 18:51 |
| markmcclain1 | SumitNaiksatam: from a review perspective yes | 18:51 |
| marun | mandeep: the fact that we're dealing with things like patch structure point to a failure to understand how to contribute to neutron | 18:51 |
| mandeep | marun: With oversignt from multiple neutron cores | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok moving back to the earlier topic | 18:51 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Mapping driver | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mapping driver (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 18:52 | |
| marun | nothing that can't be remedied, but pretending it's not a problem seems pretty silly | 18:52 |
| mandeep | marun: You know better than other cores, obviously | 18:52 |
| marun | mandeep: really? | 18:52 |
| markmcclain1 | SumitNaiksatam: thanks for indulging my review process questions | 18:52 |
| rkukura | the PoC is just that, trying to prove some concepts before submitting code for formal review | 18:52 |
| mandeep | markmcclain1: Thanks for the clarification | 18:52 |
| SumitNaiksatam | markmcclain1: always | 18:52 |
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| rkukura | back to the current topic… | 18:53 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: please | 18:53 |
| rkukura | One question that came up during PoC implementation was whether the code that implicitly creates BDs and RDs when they are not passed in explicitly might not really be specific to the mapping driver, so maybe it should go in the plugin itself. | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: maybe a short summary, so that we can to get the other items as well | 18:54 |
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| rkukura | So I’m looking into putting that into a separate driver that runs before the mapping driver. | 18:54 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: i like that idea | 18:55 |
| s3wong | rkukura: +1 | 18:55 |
| regXboi | so um hold | 18:55 |
| SumitNaiksatam | rkukura: will this be in the PoC branch? | 18:55 |
| rkukura | Will also make a meaningful chunk for review ;) | 18:55 |
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| regXboi | I'm still a little unclear how bridge and router domains come into this discussion? | 18:56 |
| s3wong | rkukura: :-) | 18:56 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: that was the next topic on the agenda | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Resource name changes | 18:56 |
| * regXboi plays straight man again | 18:56 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Resource name changes (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 18:56 | |
| regXboi | ok I can wait :) | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: it seems that BD and RD names are causing a lot of confusion | 18:56 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and are being interpreted for what they are not | 18:57 |
| rkukura | regXboi: These need to be their for the mapping driver to do its thing, but the APIs would used more from an application network admin role than an application deployer role. | 18:57 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: Propose change names to L3-policy-context and L2-policy-context | 18:57 |
| regXboi | mandeep: +1 | 18:57 |
| prasadv | mandeep: +1 | 18:58 |
| s3wong | mandeep: +1 | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | mandeep: yeah something like that will be good | 18:58 |
| rkukura | Some risk of confusion around the work “context” since its used in the driver API (based on ML2’s similar pattern) | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lets think a little more on this (since these are just meant to hold context attributes) | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok moving on | 18:58 |
| rkukura | But L?PolicyContext is fine with me | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | want to make sure give time for marun’s agenda item | 18:58 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #topic Summit session post-mortem | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit session post-mortem (Meeting topic: networking_policy)" | 18:59 | |
| s3wong | 2 minutes? :-) | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we can go a little over unless we get kicked out | 18:59 |
| marun | armax: has suggested on the ml thread to schedule an ad-hoc meeting to discuss | 18:59 |
| SumitNaiksatam | (but hopefully not a neverending debate) | 18:59 |
| mandeep | s3wong: I can sacrifice my luch to hear this | 18:59 |
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| armax | yeah just a minute is not gonna cut it | 18:59 |
| armax | :) | 18:59 |
| marun | And that would give folks a chance to read it. | 18:59 |
| regXboi | I'm in for the long haul | 18:59 |
| banix | sounds reasonable | 19:00 |
| marun | So, no need to extend, we can schedule something later. | 19:00 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: Will you be scheduling this ad-hoc meeting? | 19:00 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | sure, | 19:00 |
| regXboi | and more to the point: "how" will the meeting get scheduled? | 19:00 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we can have another meeting :-) | 19:00 |
| marun | I'm off tomorrow and all next week, but I'd suggest collecting participants from the ml thread and discussing the issues raised. | 19:00 |
| regXboi | marun: in that case, may I ask a q? | 19:01 |
| marun | shoot | 19:01 |
| banix | how about continuing now? | 19:01 |
| mandeep | marun: We need to resolve this issue ASAP, we can not put this off by a few weeks | 19:01 |
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| marun | mandeep: completely agree. | 19:01 |
| regXboi | if the patches are restructured to build up to EP/EPG first (as discussed earlier) | 19:01 |
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| banix | if we have the room and the audiance, shall we proceed? | 19:01 |
| marun | mandeep: I'm raising issues, but I don't have to be involved. | 19:01 |
| SumitNaiksatam | we are not getting kicked out yet | 19:02 |
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| regXboi | does this meet your concern by providing a natural point to implement the simple model? | 19:02 |
| marun | mandeep: it's not my intention to hold anything up. | 19:02 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | so i think we can hang in here for a little longer | 19:02 |
| regXboi | er simple implementation I mean? | 19:02 |
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| regXboi | sorry about the interleave :( | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: yes, so will discussed that we will get to EP and EPG at the earliest | 19:02 |
| s3wong | so, I guess we should read marun 's email and armax 's response first? | 19:02 |
| marun | regXboi: can the simple implementation be done without the complex model? | 19:02 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: but again it need not be a suspense | 19:03 |
| regXboi | marun: I have to go back and look, but I believe so, banix? | 19:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: the PoC branch already has all of this | 19:03 |
| mandeep | I was not in the summit, but I guess this is rehash of the original discussion on link based vs. contract based policy from early this year | 19:03 |
| marun | yes | 19:03 |
| banix | regXboi: yes it can | 19:03 |
| mandeep | And that was discussed over at least 6 weeks in this forum before the current model was choosen | 19:03 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok let me level set here a little - | 19:03 |
| regXboi | I think it also involves the process point of deviating from the BP, no? | 19:04 |
| mandeep | The blueprint has the current model in it. | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | lots of people are mistaking the optional parts of the model with what is required | 19:04 |
| marun | Uh | 19:04 |
| regXboi | marun: Uh to whom? | 19:04 |
| marun | Sumit: Do these optional parts have corresponding implementation? | 19:04 |
| SumitNaiksatam | without the optional parts it is indeed simple | 19:04 |
| mandeep | marun: Yes | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: to your earlier point, this is a phased/iterative implementation | 19:05 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: So would it be possible to propose _just_ the simple model as a starting point? | 19:05 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: rather than trying to do it all at once? | 19:05 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: that is what the current PoC implementation is | 19:05 |
| mandeep | marun: We had a discussion on that as well | 19:05 |
| marun | mandeep: and we're discussing it again. | 19:05 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: I guess I find that surprising given the level of concern in the summit session at the complexity. | 19:06 |
| mandeep | marun: And as long as people do not read those minutes, we will discuss it again | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: that is the problem, i believe people are misunderstanding | 19:06 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: for instance you made claims about lack of simplicity, but i dont think you have read the docs or the code | 19:06 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: So the complexity of the proposed implementation doesn't reflect the complexity of the logical model involved? | 19:07 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: Maybe your definition of 'complexity' differ from mine. | 19:07 |
| banix | So i think the question is if having an implementation based on the simpler model would be helpful as a first step | 19:07 |
| banix | is that fair to say? | 19:07 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: the team would hope that people make informed comments | 19:07 |
| marun | banix: agreed. | 19:07 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: That cuts both ways, I'm afraid. | 19:07 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: What is robust is also fragile to a different set of constraints. Similarly what is simple is also complex for a different context. | 19:08 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: well you cant accuse those implementing, to be not informed about the code they write, right? | 19:08 |
| s3wong | banix: but the problem we already have some level of implementation of the model, so it is basically changing the code to "simpler" model? | 19:08 |
| marun | mandeep: There is a need to socialize the concepts behind group policy to an audience of developers beyond this subteam. | 19:08 |
| banix | just want to get an agreement as how we can move forward | 19:08 |
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| marun | mandeep: The way to do that is to implement something small and simple so that people can start to appreciate what you're trying to do. | 19:09 |
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| marun | mandeep: Front-ending the complexity is not a very good way to do this, imho. | 19:09 |
| hemanthravi | i think the required subset of the contract model provides the simplicity of the other model | 19:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: plenty of that has happened, it is not constructive if you choose to focus only on the people who choose to be not in the loop | 19:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: by “that” i mean socialization | 19:09 |
| LouisF | the "scoping" parts of the model do add complexity | 19:09 |
| mandeep | marun: But if every change required a DB chnage and you deal with upgarde and back ward compatibility issues, you have just traded one complexity for anothert | 19:09 |
| SumitNaiksatam | LouisF: scopes are optional | 19:10 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: If you want to justify decisions made without consultation, that's certainly your choice. | 19:10 |
| hemanthravi | and it's better to model all the resources, else it will be harder to add these in later | 19:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: in fact quite the contrary | 19:10 |
| banix | i am wondering if we leave out the optionals, moving to simpler model would be much of coding. I am underestimating the work? or shall we have a complete functional system wih the current model without the optionals. that is another way forward. | 19:10 |
| hemanthravi | we are already seeing this wrt to lbaas and the adv services efforts | 19:10 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: But I've yelled 'iterate in the open' so often it's getting boring, and I still don't think some of the folks in this room have heard me. | 19:10 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: the effort and work has been no secret, so there is no need to justify anything | 19:11 |
| mandeep | marun: Incrementally chnaging resources happens when there is no architecture to put things together to begin with | 19:11 |
| s3wong | Agreed with hemanthravi here - the contract model with what we done in PoC so far is far from "complex" - it would be as "simple" as the link-based model | 19:11 |
| LouisF | SumitNaiksatam: agree | 19:11 |
| marun | mandeep: I call bs | 19:11 |
| mandeep | And it has all been open and with team participation | 19:11 |
| prasadv | marun: the iteration was done in open | 19:11 |
| marun | no, it hasn't | 19:11 |
| SumitNaiksatam | ok so let me level set again - | 19:11 |
| mandeep | marun: I can call your feedback bs as well, but that is not the question here, is it? | 19:11 |
| marun | iterate would be - simplest thing that could possibly work. | 19:12 |
| marun | put it in gerrit and get it merged | 19:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the spec captures the braoder model (including optional parts) | 19:12 |
| marun | then start on the next piece | 19:12 |
| s3wong | marun: IRC meeting, branch is public, link to branch on ML, what else can we do to make it more open? | 19:12 |
| marun | and make sure it's architecturally coherent at every step | 19:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | the simplest part is what we are implementing now and is a subset of the model | 19:12 |
| SumitNaiksatam | perhaps the optional pieces did not come out as clearly | 19:12 |
| marun | s3wong: ^^ iterate in the open -> propose patches, merge them, repeat | 19:12 |
| marun | s3wong: NOT iterate monolithically and then try to break things down | 19:13 |
| mandeep | This was all done in open. It was all done iteratively | 19:13 |
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| marun | mandeep: ^^ uh, read what I just wrote | 19:13 |
| banix | let’s focus on the way forward | 19:13 |
| marun | mandeep: _merge_ patches and then iterate | 19:13 |
| mandeep | The repo used was in the minutes. | 19:13 |
| mandeep | The team was comfortable using github as that is faster | 19:13 |
| hemanthravi | the current patch was needed to make it a functional block | 19:13 |
| marun | mandeep: merge -> gerrit. not external repo | 19:14 |
| banix | what is the simplest yet meaningful set of patches we can have out for review | 19:14 |
| mandeep | marun: Now were are discussing tools | 19:14 |
| mandeep | marun: vs vs emacs? | 19:14 |
| mandeep | marun: vi vs emacs? | 19:14 |
| SumitNaiksatam | banix: i think we have have already discussed that | 19:14 |
| marun | mandeep: nope. I'm telling you what it takes to merge code to Neutron. You're getting lost in the details . | 19:14 |
| rkukura | marun: The PoC in github was intended as a learning exercise, and only lasted a couple weeks. | 19:14 |
| banix | emacs is the best! | 19:14 |
| rkukura | banix: +1 | 19:14 |
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| mandeep | And I use both. YMMV | 19:15 |
| marun | rkukura: fair enough. so consider the poc as a prototype. and then start iterating on doing it for real. | 19:15 |
| marun | rkukura: (in gerrit) | 19:15 |
| mandeep | marun: That is precisely what we are doing | 19:15 |
| rkukura | marun: That is exactly what we are trying to do | 19:15 |
| marun | mandeep: no, you're not. you're breaking down the poc into chunks in the hopes of achieving a similar result | 19:15 |
| marun | mandeep: but there is likely to be commentary that will require changes. I'm just setting your expectations so it's not 'i'm done, merge' | 19:16 |
| mandeep | marun: I was involved in PoC, I am doing the reviews. When I say, that is what I was doing, I know it as I was doing it | 19:16 |
| marun | mandeep: I'm also pointing out that the review effort required is non-trivial, and Neutron has lots of other priorities. | 19:16 |
| s3wong | manrun: OK - that's fair. We will revisit the PoC and start to iterate, instead of just breaking things in chunks | 19:16 |
| SumitNaiksatam | s3wong: yes, that is what we are doing, hence the earlier items in the agenda today | 19:17 |
| marun | s3wong: +1 | 19:17 |
| SumitNaiksatam | good so we have some level of agreement | 19:17 |
| rkukura | I think we need to put some thought into how to build this thing up over a series of iterations in gerrit, not through continuing in the PoC codebase. | 19:17 |
| s3wong | marun: but do keep in mind that there are workable code in the PoC also, and we will iterate those first | 19:17 |
| marun | rkukura: +1 | 19:17 |
| banix | rkukura: +1 | 19:18 |
| SumitNaiksatam | everybody happy calling it a wrap for today? :-) | 19:18 |
| s3wong | rkukura: yes, I think that is a good approach to get started | 19:18 |
| banix | so it looks like we are getting somewhwere :) | 19:18 |
| marun | SumitNaiksatam: +1 | 19:18 |
| s3wong | SumitNaiksatam: please :-) | 19:19 |
| rkukura | We can continue to use the PoC codebase to prototype, but the real code gets developed in step-by-step in gerrit | 19:19 |
| regXboi | Sumit: I'll get with banix if the time slot doesn't move | 19:19 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam: Good to see that we all agree on the process now | 19:19 |
| SumitNaiksatam | regXboi: sure | 19:19 |
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| SumitNaiksatam | alrighty, thanks everyone | 19:19 |
| marun | Your collective participation in the ml thread is appreciated. | 19:19 |
| s3wong | marun: sure | 19:19 |
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| marun | And hopefully armax can help you organize any follow-up discussion. | 19:19 |
| marun | As I said, I'll be off next week and I don't want to hold things up. | 19:20 |
| mandeep | SumitNaiksatam will organize it (it was above) | 19:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | marun: so armax is your proxy? ;-) | 19:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | and again, thanks for all the work, this is indeed very good progress | 19:20 |
| armax | I'll be more involved, I hope markmcclain1 can be too | 19:20 |
| marun | From his reply on the ml I think he shares my concerns, so if you can satisfy him that should be fine. | 19:20 |
| SumitNaiksatam | got it | 19:21 |
| SumitNaiksatam | #endmeeting | 19:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 22 19:21:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-05-22-18.01.html | 19:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-05-22-18.01.txt | 19:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_policy/2014/networking_policy.2014-05-22-18.01.log.html | 19:21 |
| armax | marun: yes, even though my concerns were slightly on different notes | 19:21 |
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| banix | i actually think the concerns from marun markmcclain1 and armax were all a bit different | 19:22 |
| marun | armax: I think the goal of high quality with as little effort as possible is the goal regardless, so I'll trust you to ensure that. | 19:22 |
| armax | banix: they are, but as marun said, we all share a common goal of doing what's right | 19:23 |
| banix | armax: agree. the same here. Hopefully we’ll get there :) | 19:23 |
| armax | banix: I have no doubts we will | 19:23 |
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