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jeblair | is anyone here for the storyboard meeting? | 15:02 |
---|---|---|
fungi | in here then | 15:02 |
ttx | o/ | 15:04 |
ttx | Some people might have missed the new time though | 15:04 |
jeblair | getting closer... | 15:05 |
jeblair | ttx: yes, i had to remind myself to double check this morning | 15:05 |
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* ttx edits agenda | 15:06 | |
jeblair | i pinged a bunch of people in #storyboard; we'll see if we can get a quorum | 15:06 |
ttx | not sure there was a lot of progress since 2 business days ago | 15:07 |
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jeblair | it hasn't been long since the last one though, so we might not have too much to talk about anyway | 15:07 |
jeblair | this is probably a good meeting for people to miss. :) | 15:07 |
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* cody-somerville has added item to the agenda. | 15:08 | |
NikitaKonovalov | o/ | 15:08 |
SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 15:09 |
jeblair | #startmeeting storyboard | 15:09 |
openstack | Meeting started Mon Mar 31 15:09:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:09 |
openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:09 |
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:09 | |
openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 15:09 |
jeblair | it looks like we have enough folks to have a meeting | 15:10 |
ttx | yep | 15:10 |
jeblair | though we do not have the person needed for agenda item 1 | 15:10 |
jeblair | #topic agenda | 15:10 |
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:10 | |
jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard | 15:10 |
jeblair | the wiki page with the agenda has just been updated; any other last minute items to add? | 15:11 |
NikitaKonovalov | nothing from me | 15:12 |
jeblair | then i'll reorder the topics in case krotscheck shows up later | 15:12 |
jeblair | #topic Easier access to logs (cody-somerville) | 15:12 |
*** openstack changes topic to "Easier access to logs (cody-somerville) (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:12 | |
jeblair | cody-somerville: what's up? | 15:12 |
cody-somerville | Hi. I was wondering if it would be possible to somehow get easier access to logs for storyboard.o.o? I understand it currently requires a member of openstack-infra core with ssh access to retrieve. | 15:13 |
NikitaKonovalov | those logs wold help to solve a 'random 500' issue | 15:14 |
NikitaKonovalov | this one https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/40 | 15:15 |
jeblair | cody-somerville: in principle we try to make as much information about infra systems operation as possible public | 15:15 |
jeblair | cody-somerville: to that end, all our monitoring is unrestricted, puppet logs are public, and in some cases (nodepool image builds) entire logs are public | 15:16 |
jeblair | cody-somerville: i think there would be two things to consider in making storyboard logs public -- a) the security of account credentials, and b) user privacy | 15:17 |
jeblair | a) i'm not sure if we can guarantee than storyboard is never going to dump the password into the logs (courtesy of, say sqlalchemy?) | 15:18 |
NikitaKonovalov | jeblair: at this point we do not store any private information in our database | 15:18 |
NikitaKonovalov | the password goes to Launchpad only | 15:18 |
jeblair | and b) some people might consider their ip address private information and want to avoid being associated with it publicly | 15:19 |
jeblair | i don't know if that's a widely held belief in this community, but i do know some communities/organizations feel that way | 15:19 |
jeblair | oh, tokens show up in the logs | 15:20 |
NikitaKonovalov | jeblair: agree, tokens should stay private | 15:21 |
jeblair | so storyboard auth tokens themselves might be accessible in the logs... it's possibly that it's only intermediary tokens; i'm not certain | 15:21 |
jeblair | so on the other side of this, we have the thought that it should be easy for devs to run a test instance, and so most problems should be able to be debugged locally | 15:22 |
NikitaKonovalov | authorization codes are single-use, so nothing bad will happen if those leak | 15:23 |
cody-somerville | I would suggest that maybe we can more lenient with log access until MVP | 15:23 |
jeblair | that leaves only bugs that are unique to our production instance as the ones needing support from logs | 15:23 |
cody-somerville | but would be happy with restricted mechanism (maybe shared username and password coupled with scouts honour). | 15:24 |
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jeblair | one class of those bugs are the ones where we screw up the database because we're not actually testing it. i firmly believe we need to fix that with testing. | 15:25 |
jeblair | that leaves things like this random 500 error, which, one assumes is not a pervasive db problem (we don't know yet because no one has looked) | 15:25 |
jeblair | there are four people who can check the production server logs, and are happy to do it in these cases | 15:26 |
persia | Note that the recommended dev setup may be fairly different than the current production setup, so there may be a set of associated issues (e.g. mod_wsgi vs. other means of running it) | 15:26 |
jeblair | persia: good point; i think they should be as close as possible. mod_wsgi may be a big thing to ask of a developer. i don't think we should require it, but i do think it's reasonable for a serious developer to use it on occasion (i've certainly done that for similar projects in the past). | 15:29 |
cody-somerville | and then after MVP, we can go back to requiring member of infra core with ssh access | 15:29 |
persia | jeblair: Just updating the storyboard docs to explain *how* would be a big step. The current prod setup says "pip install storyboard ... mod_wsgi is recommended". | 15:29 |
jeblair | cody-somerville: so far, i've only been asked to look at logs once, and i was happy to do so and provided the information within about a minute; to my knowledge, no one has asked for us to look at the most recent 500 errors | 15:30 |
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jeblair | cody-somerville: so for the moment, i'd like to stick with "if you need a log entry, ask in #openstack-infra" | 15:31 |
ttx | and let's see if that doesn't scale | 15:31 |
jeblair | ttx: right | 15:31 |
ruhe | persia: i could take AI to update docs about prod deployment | 15:31 |
persia | Are there timezone concerns here? Is there good infra coverage for folk in +2 or +3? | 15:31 |
SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, ++ | 15:31 |
persia | ruhe: If you did, I'd be very pleased to do the review, including validating the docs by performing such a setup and running the test suite against it. | 15:32 |
ttx | persia: Sergey is at... +5? | 15:32 |
jeblair | though SergeyLukjanov is infra-core, not infra-root. we still need to expand infra-root coverage | 15:32 |
SergeyLukjanov | it was re -- [19:31:07] <jeblair> cody-somerville: so for the moment, i'd like to stick with "if you need a log entry, ask in #openstack-infra" | 15:32 |
persia | ttx: Then even moreso. From a +9 perspective, infra coverage is good because of overlap with -7, but I doubt that to be the case for +5. | 15:33 |
SergeyLukjanov | my tz is +4, so, probably we could expand access for me in this case | 15:33 |
* persia suddenly understands and is shamed | 15:33 | |
persia | SergeyLukjanov: Apologies: I just don't see you chattering a lot on IRC in the "quiet time" :) | 15:34 |
SergeyLukjanov | persia, my bad, I'm mostly accessible on-highlight | 15:34 |
jeblair | anyway, if this doesn't scale, we can look into something like password restricted logs, or a shared production-test environment | 15:34 |
SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, openstack-dev with some fake auth could be an option | 15:35 |
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SergeyLukjanov | storyboard-dev* | 15:35 |
jeblair | but production is always going to be tightly restricted, so as we learn how to develop and run a cd system like this, i think it's good to know what the parameters are and to start designing around them early | 15:36 |
persia | Even if the logs contain authentication tokens? | 15:36 |
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persia | A shared production test environment sounds the most flexible: it also allows deployment of stuff for verification that the infra changes won't break the commits. | 15:37 |
persia | How much effort is it to set up such an environment? | 15:37 |
jeblair | persia: yes. the main reason i'd be resistent to that is because that's the job of the test system. | 15:37 |
jeblair | persia: and production is going to be continuously deployed anyway | 15:37 |
jeblair | persia: so you'd just end up with two broken systems. | 15:38 |
persia | Ah, so the tests should include testing mod_wsgi, etc.? | 15:38 |
jeblair | persia: if mod_wsgi is critical to the operation of it, yes. however, i don't think it is, so i don't think its necessary. | 15:39 |
jeblair | i think we're getting a bit off topic; this is starting to feel like open discussion... | 15:39 |
persia | I'm just using that as an example of where the recommended config differs, with the idea that any point of variance can be a source of unexpected issues. | 15:39 |
jeblair | so before we go there, maybe we can spend a few minutes on the other item | 15:39 |
jeblair | #topic MVP status (krotscheck) | 15:40 |
*** openstack changes topic to "MVP status (krotscheck) (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:40 | |
jeblair | krotscheck isn't here, but i bet we can figure out what's going on | 15:40 |
NikitaKonovalov | the last thing missing was comments and pagination, I guess | 15:41 |
NikitaKonovalov | so both of them are merged | 15:41 |
jeblair | wasn't there a problem with pagination? i think it was disabled because of that? | 15:42 |
persia | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83847/ is reputedly important for firefox users. | 15:42 |
jeblair | it looks like we can update status as well | 15:42 |
* ttx looks | 15:43 | |
jeblair | https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/11 says it has 'landed' | 15:43 |
jeblair | i'm pretty sure we said that should be "change merged" rather than landed... | 15:44 |
jeblair | but hey, it's there :) | 15:44 |
ttx | I think it may be useful now | 15:44 |
jeblair | ttx: i think i would agree (well, for me, once that ff patch lands) | 15:45 |
ttx | the thing behaves more than weirdly when you click on description but then not on save | 15:46 |
persia | It won't scale much yet: no searching, no tagging. But that won't matter until there are hundreds of stories. | 15:46 |
ttx | places "undefined" stuff everywhere | 15:46 |
jeblair | ttx: yeah, that's the ff patch | 15:46 |
persia | ttx: Thats the FF patch. | 15:46 |
ttx | oh. | 15:46 |
persia | Someone using FF needs to review it. | 15:46 |
ttx | that would be me | 15:46 |
ttx | I'll review it | 15:46 |
jeblair | speaking of which, i thought we had docs-draft copies of the webclient configured to use the production api server, but it doesn't seem to be working for me | 15:47 |
jeblair | if we did, that would make reviewing those a little easier | 15:47 |
ttx | as soon as I find 2 min | 15:47 |
persia | jeblair: `tox -e grunt server:prod` doesn't work? | 15:47 |
jeblair | persia: that's beside the point | 15:48 |
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jeblair | anyway, back to topic -- i think we should continue to poke at it for a bit, but i think we're getting close to a point where we should discuss how to use it for more infra-related tasks and really start dogfooding it. | 15:48 |
persia | I thought that was the webclient configured to use the production server. krotscheck told me that there is no current support for running the client and API server on different hosts. | 15:49 |
jeblair | persia: hrm, that seems unecessary; i think it's important that the client be able to be run anywhere, including docs-draft and developer workstations (a dev should be able to test out changes against the production server) | 15:51 |
persia | Yes, but there needs to be a local proxy on the dev workstation | 15:51 |
persia | krotscheck says we need CORS support to do it the other way. | 15:51 |
jeblair | persia: ah that makes sense | 15:51 |
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persia | tox -e grunt server:prod sets up the local proxy to point at production API server, so very good for quick testing of UI stuff if you don't have your own API server environment running somewhere. | 15:52 |
jeblair | #topic open discussion | 15:52 |
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:52 | |
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jeblair | i have not had time to make headway on the 'test on mysql' change since last week, but my plan is to continue work in that direction | 15:53 |
NikitaKonovalov | jeblair: I've been running tests on both mysql and postgres installed locally | 15:54 |
NikitaKonovalov | and they are running fine so far | 15:55 |
jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: i mean _all_ the tests; they definitely don't all pass right now | 15:55 |
ruhe | jeblair: this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82872/ ? | 15:55 |
jeblair | ruhe: yes, that | 15:56 |
jeblair | NikitaKonovalov: you can see a list of issues in the comments on that change | 15:56 |
jeblair | the next step for that is to either fix the sqlalchemy model to specify the engine, or switch to alembic for creating the model for the tests; i'm going to explore using alembic | 15:56 |
jeblair | it might end up being crazy and slow, but i'd like to at least see what that looks like | 15:57 |
jeblair | anyway, once the tables are being created correctly for the unit tests on jenkins, the other issues will be visible | 15:57 |
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ruhe | jeblair: with the current number number of tests running alembic on each test might be fine; but i'd expect a lot more tests in near future | 15:58 |
ruhe | but we always can re-use old code which runs migrations only once and captures DB DDL and applies it in each tests | 15:58 |
jeblair | ruhe: yes, it might be a problem then. openstack compresses upgrades periodically though, we could adopt something similar... | 15:58 |
jeblair | ruhe: or that ^ could work too | 15:59 |
jeblair | anyway, i think time is up | 15:59 |
jeblair | thanks everyone! hopefully we'll have a few more people next week. :) | 15:59 |
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persia | It helps to have had a meeting to get used to the new day/time :) | 15:59 |
jeblair | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
openstack | Meeting ended Mon Mar 31 15:59:48 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-31-15.09.html | 15:59 |
openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-31-15.09.txt | 15:59 |
openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-31-15.09.log.html | 15:59 |
jeblair | persia: yeah, since our last one was 2 business days ago, this is not a bad one to miss. :) | 16:00 |
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