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| Alex_Gaynor | Probably relevant to some folks in here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95063/ | 04:41 |
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| alcabrera | Alex_Gaynor: thanks! malini_afk will be thrilled to see this fix. :) | 13:04 |
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| peoplemerge | flaper87|afk: g'morning from LA ! | 13:18 |
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| AAzza | alcabrera: hello! | 14:01 |
| alcabrera | AAzza: hey! how are you? :) | 14:01 |
| AAzza | good, thanks) | 14:02 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: see https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/marconi-py3k-support it is result of quick look on tests failures | 14:04 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: i'm looking on the one with the filter_stream :) | 14:06 |
| * alcabrera loads link | 14:07 | |
| alcabrera | oooh, this traceback is nice | 14:08 |
| alcabrera | all cleaned up | 14:08 |
| alcabrera | if only they were this easy to parse in general. ;) | 14:08 |
| alcabrera | thanks, AAzza! | 14:08 |
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| AAzza | alcabrera: do you have time to discuss everything now?) | 14:09 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: just want to understand the roadmap and go away to make chokolate cakes;-) | 14:10 |
| vkmc | Hi all :) | 14:11 |
| alcabrera | AAzza: mmm, chocolate cake... :D | 14:11 |
| vkmc | AAzza, +1!! | 14:11 |
| alcabrera | but yes | 14:11 |
| alcabrera | I have time | 14:11 |
| alcabrera | vkmc: hey! | 14:11 |
| vkmc | Hey alcabrera o/ | 14:11 |
| prashanthr_ | vkmc , AAzza and alcabrera: Hi :) | 14:11 |
| alcabrera | prashanthr_: hey! :) | 14:11 |
| vkmc | prashanthr_, Hi there! :) | 14:12 |
| alcabrera | awesome, we're all here. I've been reading so much email I didn't notice at first. ;) | 14:12 |
| vkmc | abettadapur is here too :D | 14:12 |
| AAzza | prashanthr_, vkmc: Nice day) | 14:12 |
| vkmc | all the interns \o/ | 14:12 |
| alcabrera | woo! | 14:13 |
| alcabrera | AAzza: I annotated the py3-etherpad with notes that might help. | 14:13 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: thanks, i see :) | 14:14 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: i' m not sure if i should commit changes before requirements-py3k will merged? | 14:14 |
| alcabrera | It's safe to start working on them, AAzza. It might be worthwhile to submit it as a child patch, too. | 14:15 |
| alcabrera | New fixes | 14:15 |
| alcabrera | such that | 14:15 |
| alcabrera | py3-reqs -> py3-fix1 -> py3-fix2 -> ... -> py3-complete | 14:15 |
| alcabrera | so you can always work on the latest py3 change sets | 14:15 |
| alcabrera | what do you think, AAzza? | 14:15 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: yes, will be there no problem sending it to review to Gerrit? | 14:16 |
| alcabrera | should be okay, as long as you always 'git branch -b new_branch' from the latest | 14:16 |
| alcabrera | gerrit should automatically connect them after that | 14:16 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: hmmm... hmm... I have my commit with py-reqs in the branch bp/python-3k i though i should do all commit with this branch | 14:18 |
| alcabrera | AAzza: hmmm... when working on the sharding feature for marconi, I had to create a new branch for each commit, since there were several that would often sit in the review queue | 14:19 |
| alcabrera | I had things like | 14:19 |
| alcabrera | (mongodb_interface) $ | 14:20 |
| alcabrera | (mongodb_interface) $ git co -b mongodb_catalogue | 14:20 |
| alcabrera | (mongodb_catalogue) $ git co -b mongodb_shards | 14:20 |
| alcabrera | and so on | 14:20 |
| alcabrera | I'd sometimes have to jump between them to rebase | 14:20 |
| alcabrera | >.> | 14:20 |
| alcabrera | it got ugly at times | 14:20 |
| alcabrera | (mongodb_shards) $ git co mongodb_interface; (mongodb_interface) $ git rebase -i master | 14:21 |
| alcabrera | I hope there's a better way to do this than I've been doing | 14:21 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: okeey. I think I just could have moments of syncs, when wait for all commits to be merged to master (since most of them are small and rather independent) and re-start the sequence) | 14:22 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: thanks. also another question | 14:23 |
| alcabrera | sure thing, AAzza. :) | 14:25 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: i see that there is patch on review with requirements update. So if it will be merged before req-py3 I should update review for py3 for it to be consistant?) | 14:25 |
| alcabrera | yes | 14:26 |
| alcabrera | since reqs.txt <-> reqs-py3.txt | 14:26 |
| AAzza | alcabrera: understand, thanks. | 14:27 |
| prashanthr_ | alcabrera : I was able to put messages into marconi via redis today :) | 14:30 |
| alcabrera | prashanthr_: nice! :D | 14:30 |
| prashanthr_ | i had one small doubt | 14:31 |
| prashanthr_ | though | 14:31 |
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| prashanthr_ | alcabrera: https://github.com/PrashanthRaghu/marconi-redis/blob/master/marconi/queues/transport/wsgi/v1_0/messages.py#L96 | 14:33 |
| prashanthr_ | in this line why is there a next(results) followed by a list formation ? | 14:33 |
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| alcabrera | hmmm | 14:40 |
| alcabrera | ah, I see | 14:40 |
| alcabrera | results is a stream of messages that ends with a marker | 14:41 |
| alcabrera | so the first call to next retrieves the messages | 14:41 |
| alcabrera | the next call retrieves the marker | 14:41 |
| alcabrera | prashanthr_: ^^ | 14:41 |
| prashanthr_ | alcabrera: ahhh okay. is it designed such because of the format of the cursor from mongodb results? | 14:42 |
| prashanthr_ | i shall look into this :) | 14:44 |
| prashanthr_ | thank you ! :) | 14:44 |
| alcabrera | I think that's the "why" of the design. :) | 14:44 |
| alcabrera | and good luck, prashanthr_! | 14:45 |
| prashanthr_ | alcabrera :) thank you ! :) | 14:45 |
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| prashanthr_ | alcabrera i shall submit the gerrit review process by monday | 14:48 |
| prashanthr_ | as i had some issues with my code | 14:49 |
| prashanthr_ | will do it by monday evening. | 14:49 |
| alcabrera | prashanthr_: much appreciated! | 14:49 |
| alcabrera | I'm looking forward to starting reviews on that | 14:49 |
| prashanthr_ | ha ha sure :) same here ! | 14:50 |
| vkmc | alcabrera, I have some doubts regarding adding the support for AMQP | 14:51 |
| vkmc | alcabrera, because I relate it more with a transport protocol than with storage | 14:53 |
| alcabrera | vkmc: I'm concerned, too, and I'm not sure what to make of it, since it's so much in demand. :/ | 14:54 |
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| vkmc | alcabrera, here is the blueprint dependency graph https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/support-amq | 15:03 |
| vkmc | adding support for amqp would be the first step | 15:04 |
| vkmc | then... we should work on adding the storage backend... as part of this blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/storage-amqp | 15:04 |
| * alcabrera clicks | 15:04 | |
| alcabrera | hmmm | 15:05 |
| alcabrera | yeah | 15:05 |
| alcabrera | how would that work? | 15:05 |
| alcabrera | I need to deploy my own rabbit/qpid thing locally to really get a feel for this. :P | 15:05 |
| vkmc | yeah me too | 15:05 |
| alcabrera | so that might be a good next task | 15:07 |
| vkmc | maybe flaper87|afk has some ideas abouti t | 15:07 |
| alcabrera | yes, we need flaper87|afk's input! :) | 15:07 |
| peoplemerge | same here | 15:07 |
| alcabrera | flaper87|afk is in such demand | 15:08 |
| vkmc | sure! thing is... rabbit != amqp... it's just an implementation of amqp v0.9 | 15:08 |
| alcabrera | yup | 15:08 |
| alcabrera | we're targeting qpid/amqp-v1.0 | 15:08 |
| alcabrera | so that'd be the thing to experiment with | 15:08 |
| vkmc | that would be the challenge yeah :) | 15:09 |
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| vkmc | but... we need to start from something we know before that | 15:09 |
| vkmc | what about using activemq? http://activemq.apache.org/amqp.html | 15:13 |
| alcabrera | vkmc: agreed! I feel like we're very much in a research and learning phase. | 15:14 |
| vkmc | well, I'm reading that there is an experimental plugin that supports amqp 1.0 for rabbitmq :) | 15:15 |
| vkmc | so we have some choices | 15:15 |
| alcabrera | definitely. :) | 15:16 |
| alcabrera | so much Java... | 15:17 |
| * alcabrera cringes | 15:17 | |
| vkmc | yeah -.- | 15:17 |
| mpanetta | Java :( | 15:18 |
| vkmc | it's being used for really complex tools... I couldn't believe that ElasticSearch is written in Java too | 15:18 |
| vkmc | (and it's efficient somehow) | 15:19 |
| mpanetta | If you want it to be Enterprise it has to be in Java right? :P | 15:19 |
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| alcabrera | Java can be efficient - run-time wise | 15:19 |
| peoplemerge | And I thought coming here I'd be able to get away from Java ;] | 15:19 |
| alcabrera | that I have no doubt of | 15:19 |
| alcabrera | but it's awful to develop in | 15:20 |
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| alcabrera | peoplemerge: haha, nope. as far as I can tell, there's no escape from Java in the "cloud" computing world of today. :/ | 15:21 |
| alcabrera | the future lies in ML-derived languages: Haskell, SML, Idris, etc. -- but the future hasn't quite spread evenly yet | 15:21 |
| vkmc | there are more Java/.NET developers than Haskell developers | 15:23 |
| alcabrera | very true | 15:24 |
| vkmc | and that's the main problem | 15:24 |
| alcabrera | and our education system unfortunately promotes that trend | 15:24 |
| mpanetta | Hmm | 15:24 |
| alcabrera | It's the uncommon case that a curriculum includes more than a single class on sound programming languages and type systems | 15:24 |
| vkmc | yeah, there is ony one side of software developing being addressed... and is object oriented programming | 15:25 |
| alcabrera | meanwhile, OOP gets the majority of classes. :( | 15:25 |
| alcabrera | vkmc: exactly | 15:25 |
| alcabrera | and it's ironic, since OOP munges all the wrong things | 15:25 |
| alcabrera | stateful computing as the default | 15:25 |
| alcabrera | and types that lose strength, so proofs become weaker | 15:26 |
| alcabrera | that's OOP | 15:26 |
| mpanetta | Getting rid of state is like removing the shackles from what I am reading... | 15:26 |
| mpanetta | You can do so much more when your stateless | 15:26 |
| alcabrera | mpanetta: definitely! I've heard it said this way, "Parallelism isn't hard. State is hard." | 15:26 |
| mpanetta | you're even | 15:28 |
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| alcabrera | mpanetta: I'm even? | 15:29 |
| vkmc | I was thinking about this earlier today, when I heard about this academy http://adadevelopersacademy.org/ | 15:30 |
| alcabrera | vkmc: oh? | 15:31 |
| vkmc | it seems that being a software developer for them is knowing rails/ruby/html/css/js/git | 15:31 |
| alcabrera | ah. | 15:31 |
| alcabrera | yeah. :/ | 15:32 |
| vkmc | it's ok, is a good start... but that's not a software developer... is a web programmer | 15:32 |
| mpanetta | alcabrera: I was correcting myself :P | 15:32 |
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| alcabrera | mpanetta: ah! | 15:33 |
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| alcabrera | vkmc: I agree. | 15:34 |
| alcabrera | being a programmer, you can leverage all the power of math to write some really cool systems | 15:34 |
| alcabrera | it's the intersection of math and hardware | 15:34 |
| mpanetta | I need to start doing it | 15:35 |
| alcabrera | and we've the tools and foundations to really make the two work together! We've had them for over 3 decades now. :D | 15:35 |
| vkmc | totally! :) | 15:36 |
| vkmc | talking about something different | 15:40 |
| vkmc | how can I test the v1.0 API? | 15:40 |
| vkmc | s/test/interact with | 15:40 |
| alcabrera | I like to use httpie for testing | 15:40 |
| alcabrera | https://github.com/jakubroztocil/httpie | 15:40 |
| alcabrera | I can do things like | 15:41 |
| vkmc | I'm using it :) | 15:41 |
| alcabrera | ah | 15:41 |
| alcabrera | well then. :D | 15:41 |
| alcabrera | so | 15:41 |
| vkmc | (I asked earlier this week haha) | 15:41 |
| alcabrera | haha | 15:41 |
| alcabrera | I forget the things I advocate for. :P | 15:41 |
| alcabrera | so | 15:41 |
| vkmc | but ... where do you put the queue? like http put http://localhost:8888/v1/queues/onequeue | 15:41 |
| vkmc | that would put a queue using the v1.1 API | 15:42 |
| alcabrera | hmmm | 15:42 |
| alcabrera | ah, I see | 15:42 |
| alcabrera | so let's see... | 15:42 |
| vkmc | doing http put http://localhost:8888/v1.1/queues/onequeue does the same... and http put http://localhost:8888/v1.0/queues/onequeue throws a 404 | 15:42 |
| alcabrera | I feel like there's a config option that runs the v1.0 api | 15:42 |
| alcabrera | oh | 15:43 |
| alcabrera | I see | 15:43 |
| alcabrera | /v1/blah hits v1.0 | 15:43 |
| alcabrera | vkmc: ^ | 15:43 |
| sriram | I always done v1 instead of v1.0, is there a difference? | 15:43 |
| alcabrera | vkmc: https://github.com/openstack/marconi/blob/master/marconi/queues/transport/wsgi/driver.py#L74 | 15:44 |
| alcabrera | sriram: /v1.0/blah doesn't exist | 15:44 |
| alcabrera | sriram: /v1/blah and /v1.1/blah do | 15:44 |
| sriram | yeah, that was my thought as well. | 15:44 |
| vkmc | sriram, yeah that was my bad... didn | 15:45 |
| vkmc | didn't know that /v1 == v1.0 | 15:45 |
| vkmc | thanks alcabrera | 15:45 |
| alcabrera | no worries. :) | 15:45 |
| alcabrera | and you're welcome! | 15:45 |
| sriram | vkmc: dont sweat it :P | 15:45 |
| alcabrera | it clarified things for me, too | 15:45 |
| vkmc | cool! :) | 15:45 |
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| alcabrera | running off for a bit. lunch awaits. :) | 15:50 |
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| vkmc | enjoy! | 15:50 |
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| vkmc | cpallares, o/ | 15:52 |
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| cpallares | hey vkmc! how are you doing? | 16:24 |
| alcabrera | cpallares: o/ | 16:24 |
| alcabrera | I return from all the lunch. | 16:25 |
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| cpallares | alcabrera: hi hi hi | 16:25 |
| cpallares | alcabrera: how are you doing? | 16:25 |
| alcabrera | lovely. I feel great today! :) | 16:25 |
| alcabrera | you, cpallares? | 16:25 |
| cpallares | alcabrera: pretty good, I had Belgian waffles for lunch :P | 16:26 |
| alcabrera | yum! | 16:26 |
| * alcabrera steals cpallares' waffles | 16:26 | |
| * alcabrera steals them twice, even! | 16:27 | |
| cpallares | haha | 16:27 |
| alcabrera | cpallares: did you get a chance to watch that Types vs. Tests video I shared? :) | 16:27 |
| cpallares | I don't think I did, was it on twitter? | 16:28 |
| vkmc | moar waffleeeees! | 16:28 |
| vkmc | cpallares, great! :) you? | 16:28 |
| alcabrera | cpallares: I think I sent you a direct link at the end of a day. I forgot which... >.> | 16:28 |
| alcabrera | but anyway | 16:28 |
| alcabrera | link: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Types-Tests | 16:28 |
| alcabrera | Title: Types vs. Tests: An Epic Battle? | 16:29 |
| alcabrera | vkmc: this one adds to some of the discussion we had earlier about math + computing | 16:29 |
| cpallares | vkmc: Pretty good :D | 16:29 |
| cpallares | alcabrera: Yay videooooos | 16:29 |
| * cpallares likes videos | 16:29 | |
| alcabrera | hahaha | 16:29 |
| alcabrera | I have many! | 16:29 |
| vkmc | :D | 16:31 |
| cpallares | alcabrera: I really like that the slides are on the side and not on the the actual video that's pretty neat | 16:31 |
| alcabrera | cpallares: it's a sweet feature for all infoq videos! | 16:31 |
| vkmc | It looks good! | 16:31 |
| vkmc | those cats looks scary | 16:32 |
| alcabrera | lol | 16:32 |
| vkmc | haha | 16:32 |
| alcabrera | long cat vs. anti-long cat | 16:32 |
| cpallares | vkmc: haha | 16:32 |
| alcabrera | maybe | 16:32 |
| alcabrera | long anti-cat | 16:32 |
| alcabrera | I don't evemn | 16:32 |
| alcabrera | *even | 16:32 |
| cpallares | alcabrera: I thought the anti-cat was a dog :P | 16:36 |
| alcabrera | that makes a lot of sense, cpallares! | 16:36 |
| alcabrera | hahaha | 16:36 |
| alcabrera | the dual of a cat (co-cat) -> dog | 16:40 |
| alcabrera | the dual of a dog (co-dog) -> cat | 16:40 |
| alcabrera | oh yay | 16:40 |
| alcabrera | the authors of Types vs. Tests | 16:40 |
| alcabrera | are doing a talk at Strange Loop this year titled: "Type Systems: the Good, the Bad, & the Ugly" | 16:40 |
| cpallares | alcabrera: I was browsing the Strange Loop conference page yesterday. It looks like a fun conference. | 16:42 |
| alcabrera | it's very interesting, cpallares. :) | 16:42 |
| alcabrera | consciousness, curious languages, math, and other curiosities | 16:43 |
| alcabrera | it's almost like a distillation of what makes computation beautiful | 16:43 |
| alcabrera | I want to go this year. | 16:45 |
| alcabrera | https://thestrangeloop.com/ | 16:46 |
| alcabrera | Title: Home - Strange Loop | 16:46 |
| cpallares | Do they have a livestream? | 16:47 |
| alcabrera | I'm not sure, cpallares. I don't think so. :/ | 16:47 |
| alcabrera | the videos are recorded, and usually posted a little bit after the fact. | 16:47 |
| cpallares | alcabrera: good to know :) | 16:49 |
| cpallares | alcabrera: I'm thinking about attending Open Source Bridge since I got funds to attend AdaCamp and OSBridge is a day after it ends, so I might as well make good use of the trip :P | 16:50 |
| cpallares | kgriffs: We're now on reviewday :) http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ | 16:51 |
| alcabrera | cpallares: all the conferences! I've heard good things about OSB. :) | 16:53 |
| alcabrera | if you can make it happen, that'd be awesome | 16:53 |
| mpanetta | momocon is this weekend, speaking of conferences :P | 16:59 |
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| alcabrera | oh my, it;s very cute mpanetta! :D | 17:08 |
| mpanetta | I will be there saturday :) | 17:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alejandro Cabrera proposed a change to openstack/python-marconiclient: fix: add https support https://review.openstack.org/95228 | 17:49 |
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| peoplemerge | alcabrera: back online, had to commute. Totally agree with your views on ML & concurrency. Haskell book is on my desk now. | 18:33 |
| alcabrera | peoplemerge: awesome! which book is it? :) | 18:34 |
| peoplemerge | O'Reilly's Real World Haskell | 18:34 |
| peoplemerge | I also have the Haskell School of Expression but it looks like a CS101 book | 18:34 |
| alcabrera | RWH is wonderful | 18:35 |
| peoplemerge | I know Erlang and enough Scala to stay sane in the java world | 18:35 |
| alcabrera | hehe | 18:35 |
| peoplemerge | I'm starting to appreciate it | 18:35 |
| alcabrera | for everyone ramping up on Haskell | 18:36 |
| alcabrera | I like to point them to this: https://github.com/bitemyapp/learnhaskell | 18:36 |
| alcabrera | @bitemyapp has done a wonderful job of curating Haskell learning resources | 18:36 |
| peoplemerge | sweet | 18:36 |
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| peoplemerge | Just stopped for breakfast, Naomi Watts and Liev Schreiber came in with their kids and sat right in front of us. Nice people, they loved our pug. LA people... | 18:39 |
| peoplemerge | Reading... | 18:39 |
| alcabrera | ah, nifty | 18:40 |
| peoplemerge | LYAH was recommended to me by a colleague too. | 18:40 |
| alcabrera | LYAH has the best initial treatment of functors and monads of all currently available books, I think. | 18:41 |
| peoplemerge | oh good. I don't know monads. | 18:41 |
| alcabrera | RWH makes good use of monads/functors when explaining parsers | 18:41 |
| peoplemerge | alcabrera: Suggestions for category theory? | 18:41 |
| alcabrera | peoplemerge: I've used Steve Awodey's text a bit, and i've also had some luck with The Joy of Cats | 18:42 |
| peoplemerge | xlnt. I've got a good theoretical background for parsers | 18:42 |
| alcabrera | peoplemerge: Awodey's (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.211.4754&rep=rep1&type=pdf) and Joy of Cats (http://katmat.math.uni-bremen.de/acc/acc.pdf) | 18:43 |
| peoplemerge | Reading ... | 18:44 |
| peoplemerge | This will be fun long weekend material! | 18:44 |
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| alcabrera | oh yes! | 18:49 |
| alcabrera | peoplemerge: don't worry too much about CT when getting started. :) | 18:49 |
| alcabrera | I found basic type theory a lot more helpful, and following that, some abstract algebra | 18:50 |
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| peoplemerge | I've got to get a neutron issue debugged for our developers then I'll be back here hacking marconi :) | 19:04 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit will be offline for about 20 minutes in order to rename some projects starting at 21:00 UTC. | 20:33 | |
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| peoplemerge | anybody going to be working over the long weekend? | 21:50 |
| alcabrera | peoplemerge: nah -- I might do some reading, though. :) | 21:53 |
| peoplemerge | alcabrera: on the subject of languages is there any python materials you might recommend too? Most of what I've found is for new programmers, not for a guy like me fluent in most everything but Python. | 21:55 |
| * peoplemerge exaggerates sometimes | 21:56 | |
| alcabrera | :P | 21:56 |
| alcabrera | peoplemerge: the best I've seen in Python land is Beazley and Jones Python Cookbook 3e: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920027072.do | 21:57 |
| peoplemerge | ahh nice | 21:57 |
| peoplemerge | I have a safari account. This is perfect. Thank you | 21:58 |
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| alcabrera | peoplemerge: you're welcome. :) | 22:01 |
| peoplemerge | Think I'll try to cram through it this weekend | 22:02 |
| peoplemerge | Or maybe set up dev environments at home | 22:02 |
| alcabrera | peoplemerge: it's a fun one to take a little at a time. It has a lot of useful material. when I was doing python frequently, I'd come back once a week and pick up a new idea. :) | 22:05 |
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| vkmc | Hey guys, if someone is still around, I'm having some trouble running the tests... is someone getting something alike or knows what's going on? http://paste.openstack.org/show/81241/ | 22:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | Kurt Griffiths proposed a change to openstack/marconi: fix: Checking whether queue exists adds latency https://review.openstack.org/67978 | 23:42 |
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