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| cpallares | Good morning o/ | 14:23 |
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| alcabrera | good morning! :) | 14:39 |
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| balajiiyer1 | alcabrera: morning | 14:49 |
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| alcabrera | balajiiyer1: :) | 14:50 |
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| kgriffs | hi folks | 16:08 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera, flaper87: ttx mentioned yesterday that we should have all bp's assigned, and consider slipping or deprioritizing some of them since we have a short time frame | 16:09 |
| kgriffs | #link https://launchpad.net/marconi/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 16:09 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: ^^ | 16:10 |
| balajiiyer1 | kgriffs: I think we have all bp's assigned, right? Are there any unassigned bp's? | 16:13 |
| kgriffs | there are a few | 16:14 |
| kgriffs | I am going to take a first pass getting things assigned where it is obvious | 16:14 |
| alcabrera | kgriffs: thanks | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/sharded-queue-migration | 16:15 |
| kgriffs | seems like a pretty big thing that I kinda doubt will get done in the next four weeks, but I could be wrong | 16:16 |
| alcabrera | kgriffs: you're right - it's too big for the next few weeks | 16:16 |
| kgriffs | ok. I am going to move it out of icehouse; if we end up getting everything else done early, we can consider bringing it back | 16:17 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: looks like there was already a bp for this? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/handle-shard-overflow | 16:18 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: ^^ | 16:18 |
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| alcabrera | kgriffs: I'd like that one brought up for general brainstorming. The first proposed solution is nice for deployers, but may be unfriendly to users depending on how it is presented. | 16:21 |
| alcabrera | so - I'd like to defer implementation for after icehouse | 16:21 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: so, i think we have two things that need to be done | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | i mean, issues to address | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | 1. noisy neighbor | 16:22 |
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| kgriffs | 2. virtually unlimited queue length | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | We've had some discussion in here and via email | 16:22 |
| kgriffs | I sent a summary to balajiiyer1 | 16:23 |
| alcabrera | by handling (2), we'd have the beginnings of enabling back pressure mechanisms for users | 16:23 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: did you already create any other bps? | 16:23 |
| balajiiyer1 | kgriffs: I did not, now wondering should I? | 16:23 |
| kgriffs | mmm | 16:23 |
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| kgriffs | well, if we are able to migrate queues, will that address noisy neighbor? | 16:24 |
| kgriffs | (there's already a bp for that) | 16:24 |
| balajiiyer1 | how easy it is to migrate queues without losing inflight messages? | 16:25 |
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| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: we have discussed some strategies for doing that | 16:26 |
| kgriffs | basically you do something similar to what VMs do in a live migration | 16:26 |
| balajiiyer1 | kgriffs: ok | 16:26 |
| kgriffs | the idea is | 16:26 |
| alcabrera | snapshot/freeze/catch-up/unfreeze kind of deal, iirc | 16:26 |
| kgriffs | you get the old and new data stores synced as closely as possible | 16:27 |
| kgriffs | then you briefly freeze, move over the remaining delta, and unfreeze | 16:27 |
| kgriffs | if we can do it fast enough, we can hold incoming message posts without them timing out | 16:27 |
| kgriffs | I think that this will be one of the flaship features of the Juno release | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | flagship | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | thingy | 16:28 |
| kgriffs | From my notes: | 16:30 |
| kgriffs | I think infinite storage can be addressed by using mongo's built-in sharding - you could hash on the marker, but this would require a marker proxy because we can no longer depend on the unique index. | 16:30 |
| kgriffs | If you shard the queue across two different backend db nodes, no matter how you look at it, you will need to have a marker proxy. | 16:30 |
| kgriffs | Anyway, I could be wrong, but this is my current thinking. Flavio is in favor of not sharing a queue across multiple backends, period (FWIW). | 16:30 |
| kgriffs | marker proxy is a thing that proxies message inserts | 16:31 |
| balajiiyer1 | I see, ok. thanks for the detailed response | 16:31 |
| kgriffs | An alternative to "infinite queue length" is to solve that in the filesystem layer using something like Ceph, Gluster, SolidFire, etc. | 16:32 |
| kgriffs | also, let's not forget the interesting possibilities that docker gives us | 16:33 |
| kgriffs | we could essentially provision single-tenant micro-marconis very cheaply | 16:33 |
| balajiiyer1 | 'single tenant micro marconis' I like that | 16:33 |
| kgriffs | yep! we could say you have unlimited queue length, but please contact us to raise your quota | 16:34 |
| balajiiyer1 | my only concern with moving queues is how often the queue will get moved. What if after moving the queue again experiences a noisy neighbor in the new shard? | 16:35 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: yes, that is possible. the placement algorithm would need to be pretty clever | 16:36 |
| kgriffs | from my notes: | 16:37 |
| kgriffs | Noisy neighbor can be addressed by being able to migrate/rebalance shards to progressively less-crowded shards. You can take this to an extreme by isolating someone in their own micro storage cluster using docker. | 16:37 |
| kgriffs | noisy neighbor doesn't really apply to the web heads because we can just round-robin and autoscale the load | 16:37 |
| balajiiyer1 | ok | 16:38 |
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| balajiiyer1 | kgriffs: so the question, do you want me to create a new bp for this? or do you think existing bps will handle this use case? | 16:41 |
| kgriffs | I think the two that are there will work | 16:41 |
| kgriffs | I added some notes the whiteboards | 16:41 |
| kgriffs | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/handle-shard-overflow | 16:41 |
| kgriffs | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/marconi/+spec/sharded-queue-migration | 16:41 |
| balajiiyer1 | ok cool | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: I just assigned them to you | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | so you can take the lead on the design and organizing the tasks | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | btw | 16:42 |
| kgriffs | the marker-proxy thing would let us shard a single queue across multiple redis nodes, which may or may not be interesting | 16:43 |
| kgriffs | i think the redis flavor use cases may not overlap with the ones that require super long queues, though | 16:43 |
| kgriffs | I think people will want redis for super fast throughput, where things go in and out quickly, and that means you won't have very long queues | 16:44 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: final thought | 16:44 |
| kgriffs | if we can rebalance queues based on CPU and network usage | 16:45 |
| kgriffs | we may also consider rebalancing based on queue length | 16:45 |
| balajiiyer1 | ok | 16:45 |
| kgriffs | as queues get longer, we can move them to nodes that have more disk | 16:45 |
| kgriffs | I'd be willing to bet we could fit more than enough messages on a big shard for anyone to use | 16:46 |
| kgriffs | i mean, it isn't like we are storage megabytes per message | 16:46 |
| kgriffs | s/storage/storing | 16:46 |
| balajiiyer1 | right | 16:47 |
| balajiiyer1 | kgriffs: I have some questions about the documentation bp | 16:48 |
| kgriffs | k | 16:48 |
| balajiiyer1 | I spoke to Catherine, she is ready to help us - she has asked me a few questions, which I will need your help with. here it goes - | 16:49 |
| balajiiyer1 | "Is there a repository on github that you'd like for me to use for the docs source files?" | 16:49 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: p.s. - also consider that clients can only post so many messages/sec anyway | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: ah, good question | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | i don't know whether other projects have a standalone repo or just use the same as the app code | 16:50 |
| kgriffs | https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/tree/master/doc/source | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | looks like there is a precedent | 16:52 |
| alcabrera | there;s also: https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals | 16:52 |
| kgriffs | mmm | 16:52 |
| alcabrera | it seems like developer facing docs live with a project, while things that are more applicable to openstack deploymeny lives in 'openstack-manuals', like: https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals/blob/master/doc/high-availability-guide/ap-glance-api.txt | 16:53 |
| alcabrera | *deployment | 16:53 |
| kgriffs | so, that begs the question | 16:54 |
| kgriffs | how do you write docs in order to graduate that are added to the official manuals before you graduate? | 16:54 |
| kgriffs | i mean, chicken-and-egg problem | 16:54 |
| balajiiyer1 | ha,good question. | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: so, it looks like this is indeed the kind of docs that bp is talking about | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/master/doc | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | my guess is that we put them in our own repo now, and after graduation (during Juno, with luck) we move them over | 16:55 |
| kgriffs | so, I would try to make them compatible with https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | (use maven and stuff) | 16:56 |
| alcabrera | hmmm | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: ^^^ | 16:56 |
| kgriffs | thoughts? | 16:56 |
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| kgriffs | malini: ping | 16:58 |
| malini | kgriffs: need to hop on a meeting now | 16:58 |
| malini | will ping u in 30 min | 16:59 |
| kgriffs | malini: real quick, did you see chad's note about devstack? | 16:59 |
| kgriffs | that's all - just wanted to make sure you were on top of that | 16:59 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: so, my current thinking wrt docs is this: | 17:00 |
| kgriffs | Create a "doc" directory under https://github.com/openstack/marconi | 17:00 |
| kgriffs | and then mirror what the openstack-manuals project does, but only do the user and operator manuals | 17:01 |
| kgriffs | let's see | 17:01 |
| kgriffs | install-guide | 17:02 |
| kgriffs | user-guide | 17:02 |
| kgriffs | config-reference | 17:02 |
| kgriffs | start with those | 17:03 |
| kgriffs | but yeah, we should run this by Anne and see what she thinks about the plan - see if we are on track, or way off on this | 17:03 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: ^^^ | 17:03 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: ^^^ | 17:03 |
| balajiiyer1 | kgriffs: Ok. I will touch base with Catherine on what we spoke and keep Anne in loop | 17:04 |
| balajiiyer1 | kgriffs: so, install-guide, where should it come from? ops? | 17:04 |
| kgriffs | thanks! | 17:04 |
| kgriffs | yeah | 17:04 |
| balajiiyer1 | also, for user guide, do you think for initial draft, take RAX guide and remove RAX specfic components and branding? | 17:05 |
| kgriffs | interesting --- looks like maven is like a Jenkins | 17:06 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: sounds good to me | 17:06 |
| balajiiyer1 | what is the timeline for this to be complete? I dont think we can make it by Feb 6 | 17:07 |
| kgriffs | balajiiyer1: The TC said that it would be OK to have docs after the i-3 milestone, but if we are putting this directly in our repo, then... | 17:08 |
| kgriffs | we would want to get it in before the freeze | 17:08 |
| kgriffs | which is March 6th | 17:08 |
| balajiiyer1 | ok sounds good, I will target end of Feb | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | btw | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | there is a voluntary "soft freeze" that just got added to the schedule | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | Feb 20th | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | to help avoid killing the gate | 17:09 |
| kgriffs | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 17:09 |
| balajiiyer1 | might be a little difficult to meet the date, but I will shoot for it. | 17:10 |
| kgriffs | thanks! | 17:12 |
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| alcabrera | ykaplan: hey! I wanted to check with you - how goes the sqlalchemy backend for marconi? :) | 17:24 |
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| kgriffs | alcabrera: too slow. :( | 17:51 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: I updated the i-3 bps | 17:51 |
| kgriffs | everything is now assigned and I moved a few out to Juno | 17:51 |
| kgriffs | https://launchpad.net/marconi/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 17:51 |
| kgriffs | can you take a look and see if we are missing anything critical? | 17:52 |
| alcabrera | sure thing, kgriffs | 18:04 |
| alcabrera | looks good to me - heat, tempest, docs, pecan evaluation, and storage driver are all there | 18:06 |
| alcabrera | I've updated the status on my part of the sqlalchemy driver. I started that today - sharding and catalogue. | 18:07 |
| kgriffs | great, thanks! | 18:07 |
| kgriffs | grrr | 18:08 |
| kgriffs | "ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool" | 18:08 |
| kgriffs | http://logs.openstack.org/97/67597/5/check/gate-marconi-python26/102e0dc/console.html | 18:08 |
| kgriffs | malini: ^^^ | 18:08 |
| alcabrera | hmmmm | 18:11 |
| alcabrera | was that the same test we started skipping? | 18:11 |
| malini | no its not | 18:11 |
| malini | looks like the marconi-server didnt start ? | 18:12 |
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| alcabrera | weird | 18:14 |
| malini | but tht shud have failed all the tests | 18:14 |
| kgriffs | the error says "broken pipe" | 18:14 |
| kgriffs | so... | 18:14 |
| kgriffs | I think that the server is crashing at some point | 18:14 |
| kgriffs | or getting killed by Jenkins or something (although, I don't know why it would) | 18:15 |
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| kgriffs | anybody see an error from python-subunit lately? | 18:35 |
| kgriffs | from testtools.compat import all | 18:35 |
| kgriffs | ImportError: cannot import name all | 18:35 |
| alcabrera | hmmm | 18:36 |
| alcabrera | oh | 18:36 |
| alcabrera | wait | 18:37 |
| kgriffs | http://osdir.com/ml/openstack-dev/2014-01/msg01500.html | 18:37 |
| alcabrera | I saw something about this in the openstack ML this morning | 18:37 |
| alcabrera | they linked it to testtools | 18:37 |
| kgriffs | yeah | 18:37 |
| kgriffs | if I didn't hate email so much I would have seen that. :p | 18:37 |
| alcabrera | haha | 18:39 |
| alcabrera | I'm in a similar boat. I only ever glance over the subject heading for OS-dev ML posts, tbh, kgriffs., | 18:39 |
| alcabrera | If something seems *really* interesting, for large values of interesting, I Ctrl-F to that set of posts and review a little more. That's my approach, anyway. :P | 18:39 |
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| alcabrera | kgriffs: here's the proposed solution to the testtools problem: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69840/ | 18:48 |
| kgriffs | thanks, just found it too | 18:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Kurt Griffiths proposed a change to openstack/marconi: fix(testtools): 0.9.35 is not compatible with subunit 0.0.17 https://review.openstack.org/69939 | 18:53 |
| alcabrera | +2 kgriffs - let's get this fix in | 18:54 |
| kgriffs | alcabrera: can you ninjappove it once gate +1's? | 18:56 |
| kgriffs | flaper87: ^^^ or you can if you are around | 18:56 |
| alcabrera | kgriffs: sure thing | 18:56 |
| kgriffs | thanks | 18:58 |
| kgriffs | brb | 18:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Kurt Griffiths proposed a change to openstack/marconi: test(functional): Don't use a dead test server https://review.openstack.org/69941 | 19:12 |
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| alcabrera | kgriffs: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69939/ blocked by pypi not available. :/ | 19:33 |
| kgriffs | srlsly. | 19:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/marconi: fix(testtools): 0.9.35 is not compatible with subunit 0.0.17 https://review.openstack.org/69939 | 19:58 |
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| balajiiyer | kgriffs: for bps that should meet i3 date, is it the new soft freeze date of Feb 20? | 21:57 |
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