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| openstackgerrit | Sam Yaple proposed openstack/loci master: Remove warning about stability https://review.openstack.org/551299 | 14:31 |
|---|---|---|
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/loci master: Add python packages "bindep" file https://review.openstack.org/550955 | 14:34 |
| SamYaple | hogepodge: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/551299/ | 14:50 |
| SamYaple | jgriffith pbourke hogepodge portdirect -- i need to branch/tag loci. please let me know if there is anything thats needed before i do that | 14:50 |
| SamYaple | we really need to branch and tag soon, ive kinda dropped the ball on that | 14:50 |
| pbourke | SamYaple: you should merge my doc fixes ;) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/550964/ | 14:51 |
| SamYaple | pbourke: we need to real docs.o.o docs too | 14:52 |
| pbourke | true | 14:53 |
| pbourke | I was going to suggest we doc some more stuff before going 1.0.0 | 14:53 |
| pbourke | but it's not a requirement | 14:53 |
| openstackgerrit | Pete Birley proposed openstack/loci master: Cinder: add qemu profile to bindep https://review.openstack.org/551304 | 14:53 |
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| hogepodge | SamYaple Yeah, apparently we missed rc-2 for doing the things we need to be an official Queens release. Should talk to ttx about it to see what’s what. | 15:10 |
| SamYaple | yea i dropped the ball. havent been ptl before and was more focused on doing that proceedure | 15:11 |
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| ttx | Ohai! A little bird told me you were discussing release | 15:27 |
| ttx | So our traditional rule is that to be part of a release, you have to be in by milestone-2 in the cycle. But that rule was really designed for main components like nova or cinder, not for packaging systems | 15:28 |
| ttx | So I'm looking into how we could relax those rules and make sure that when you release you are listed on https://releases.openstack.org/queens/index.html as a packaging for Queens | 15:29 |
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| ttx | Please reach out to #openstack-release when you're ready, and we'll see what we can do | 15:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/loci master: Cinder: add qemu profile to bindep https://review.openstack.org/551304 | 15:38 |
| SamYaple | thansk ttx . ill do that | 15:39 |
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| aspiers | Hi there, only just discovered LOCI and have a stupid question: how do its goals differ from Kolla? | 17:56 |
| SamYaple | aspiers: kolla builds *and* deploys openstack. LOCI only builds openstack images | 17:59 |
| hogepodge | aspiers: Loci is meant to build super-light-weight containers for OpenStack services. | 17:59 |
| SamYaple | but they arent incompatible projects https://review.openstack.org/#/c/550500/ | 17:59 |
| SamYaple | that review shows kolla-ansible taking steps to be able to consume loci images | 18:00 |
| hogepodge | aspiers: you need to bring the deployment engine to configure and install the images | 18:00 |
| aspiers | OK - I realised the difference that kolla deploys and LOCI doesn't. But why do we need two different ways to build images? Or is the plan to converge on one? | 18:00 |
| SamYaple | aspiers: ah thats more of a history question | 18:00 |
| SamYaple | LOCI started as a POC for revamping the kolla build system. it was rejected at the time and this project formed | 18:01 |
| aspiers | Why was it rejected? | 18:01 |
| SamYaple | there are clear benefits for building with LOCI instead of kolla, which is why LOCI is reasonable successful this early on | 18:01 |
| aspiers | Differing goals? | 18:01 |
| SamYaple | i would argue it was more politics, but different goals sounds better | 18:02 |
| SamYaple | the biggest differing goal was keeping the startup scripts out of the container images. with the patchset above it shows kolla-ansible has finally come around on that point | 18:03 |
| aspiers | I see this kind of phenemenon happen regularly in the FLOSS world (unfortunately), and I always recommend the same thing each time: regardless of differing views, it's really important for projects to provide clarity on the differences with their rivals, so that newcomers can make an informed decision about which one to use | 18:03 |
| aspiers | So on practical level, I'd strongly recommend putting the kind of helpful info you're giving me right now, into the README | 18:03 |
| SamYaple | yea i could see that being valuable. pbourke ^ | 18:04 |
| aspiers | Otherwise every newcomer is going to be thinking the same FAQ: why oh why does this exist when we already have Kolla? | 18:04 |
| aspiers | and BTW I would recommend the same thing for Kolla :) | 18:04 |
| SamYaple | the only people asking that are those that havent used kolla :P | 18:04 |
| SamYaple | but your points are valid | 18:04 |
| aspiers | I'd call it "graceful co-existence" ;-) | 18:04 |
| SamYaple | we were just talking about getting onto docs.o.o | 18:05 |
| SamYaple | seems like good content for that | 18:05 |
| aspiers | IMHO it's important for projects like LOCI that they are not just seen as the symptoms of NIH Syndrome, but rather as something which was created to address a need no existing alternative already did | 18:06 |
| aspiers | Anyway it's clear you get my message, so I'll stop ranting ;-) Thanks for listening! | 18:06 |
| SamYaple | oh yea. i hate NIH | 18:07 |
| aspiers | :) | 18:07 |
| SamYaple | if it makes you feel better, i also wrote the kolla build system | 18:07 |
| aspiers | it does, actually | 18:07 |
| aspiers | :) | 18:07 |
| SamYaple | i just couldnt update it anymore due to the political stuff | 18:07 |
| aspiers | that's really disappointing to hear | 18:07 |
| SamYaple | its got locked in | 18:07 |
| aspiers | ah well, survival of the fittest | 18:07 |
| aspiers | I guess | 18:08 |
| SamYaple | well i should say i wrote the initial implementation of the kolla build system | 18:08 |
| SamYaple | lots of the community has worked on it since | 18:08 |
| aspiers | will openstack-helm be able to consume LOCI? | 18:08 |
| SamYaple | it already does by default | 18:08 |
| SamYaple | it gates on them too | 18:08 |
| aspiers | OK, very interesting | 18:08 |
| aspiers | that explains why alanmeadows is here I guess :) | 18:08 |
| SamYaple | he is here for me to bug about fixing openstack | 18:09 |
| SamYaple | he still hasnt yet | 18:09 |
| aspiers | lol | 18:09 |
| SamYaple | it was actually me and portdirect that started LOCI (and its early conterparts), so we have a pretty good relationship with kolla and openstack-helm for what its worth | 18:10 |
| SamYaple | despite the sometimes politically driven actions | 18:11 |
| aspiers | that's great to hear | 18:12 |
| aspiers | I'm personally pretty interested in openstack-helm (was impressed by it in Sydney) | 18:12 |
| hogepodge | aspiers: I use both. I have a small Ironic seed node that I manage my home cluster with. It's all docker-compose and Loci. My OpenStack installation on top of my home lab is kolla-ansible using kolla images. | 18:12 |
| aspiers | and OCI aligns nicely with SUSE strategy IIUC (although that's largely a guess) | 18:13 |
| hogepodge | I personally find Kolla images to be very heavyweight, but in their proper context works well and makes me happy. | 18:13 |
| aspiers | hogepodge: cool, good to know | 18:13 |
| SamYaple | the biggest issue i have with the images is the tight coupling with the build process in the deploy process | 18:13 |
| SamYaple | now that steps are being take to remove that, imquite happy with using kolla-ansible and loci | 18:14 |
| SamYaple | already plans to cross-gate and all | 18:14 |
| SamYaple | but the images would be able to be swapped out with kolla images mix-n-match style | 18:14 |
| aspiers | I wonder if loci could integrate with OBS somehow | 18:14 |
| aspiers | That would be cool | 18:14 |
| SamYaple | im not familiar with that acronym | 18:15 |
| aspiers | http://openbuildservice.org/ | 18:15 |
| aspiers | it already builds container images | 18:15 |
| SamYaple | i would love to be part of that conversation. a brief glance makes it seem like we could align here | 18:16 |
| aspiers | I could put you in touch with the OBS team | 18:16 |
| SamYaple | if you want to pursue it, youll find us all very helpful | 18:16 |
| SamYaple | oh yea that would be good | 18:16 |
| aspiers | I have no idea whether it makes sense though | 18:16 |
| aspiers | just a random thought | 18:16 |
| SamYaple | a quick conversation should clear that up | 18:16 |
| aspiers | https://www.cyphar.com/blog/post/20161129-umoci-new-oci-image-tool | 18:17 |
| hogepodge | except for portdirect, he's a professional rabble rouser ;-) | 18:17 |
| aspiers | old, but shows that we're working in this space | 18:17 |
| SamYaple | our goals are specifically to build OCI compliant images, so a different tooling than docker build is acceptable, but would obivously require conversations | 18:18 |
| aspiers | https://www.opencontainers.org/blog/2017/01/05/oci-member-spotlight-suse | 18:19 |
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