Thursday, 2015-01-15

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dougwiganyone know why openstack processes don't just use django to implement the web services/orm/api, instead of reinventing all this crap every time?00:02
rm_workyes, just separating the parts that are daemon-like from deploy-worker so it is importable library code00:02
rm_workdougwig: <_<00:02
rm_workthe assumption being that django is something people would want to use? :/00:03
dougwighahahaha. well, i would prefer rails, but i get shot when i say ruby.00:03
dougwigbut seriously, web services frameworks are a solved problem, but not in openstack-land.00:04
johnsomYeah, I was a bit surprised there wasn't a clear "library" for that....00:05
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rm_workisn't pecan a WSF?00:17
rm_workor is my definition of WSF not good00:18
rm_workbecause pecan is the official openstack framework AFAIK00:18
dougwignot as abstracted as django or rails, and let's face it, you'll hit the GIL of either interpreter before *any* of these solutions is really a scaling issue.00:18
rm_workeh00:19
rm_workthe problem is probably that everyone has their favorite thing00:20
rm_workfor instance, i don't really like django00:20
rm_workbut that's just me00:20
rm_workmaybe I need to give it a try again00:20
rm_workbut I'd much rather use Flask, any day of the week00:20
dougwigdjango or rails will never do things the way anyone wants. they'll just do them one way that works, and which PaaS can be wrapped around. convention and all that, and at this point, they scale well. it's a lot of glue i don't have to write, which means more beer time. but. not in openstack! :)00:27
dougwigor like johnsom suggested, i've always been floored that there isn't just "import oslo.api_server" or something.00:29
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sbalukoffOn the above conversation: I would love to use a different name than 'deploy worker' as it will be doing more than just deployments.01:11
johnsomYeah, it has morphed a bit01:11
johnsomMCP?01:11
sbalukoffdrone?01:12
sbalukoffimp?01:12
sbalukoffcherub?01:12
johnsomcherub?  really?01:13
sbalukoffHeh!01:13
sbalukoffartifex01:13
sbalukoffartifex = latin for worker.01:13
sbalukoffSince, you know, that whole ancient Rome theme...01:13
johnsomMuch better than cherub01:14
sbalukoffI can throw a ton of terrible names at you until I herd you toward one that doesn't suck. ;)01:14
sbalukoffI'm cool with artifex.01:15
johnsomI could go with that too.01:15
sbalukoffOr even, you know "worker"01:15
sbalukoffClearly, we need to debate this for three weeks.01:15
johnsomHahaha01:15
sbalukoffI just know that 'deploy worker' is too specific.01:15
johnsomYou just want to keep me busy rolling spec updates...01:16
sbalukoff:D01:17
sbalukoffGo with artifex or just plain "worker" then.01:18
sbalukoffI'm pretty sure I know what blogan would choose.01:18
sbalukoffApparently 'operarius' is also a valid translation.01:18
sbalukoffBut screw that.01:18
sbalukoffThat's like 5 syllables.01:18
johnsomI think worker is too generic, we will likely have more than one type01:18
sbalukoffartifex it is, then. ;)01:19
sbalukoffopifex is also a valid translation, though seems to imply some level of skill at a trade.01:19
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/neutron-lbaas: Migrate to oslo.concurrency  https://review.openstack.org/14724401:38
openstackgerritCarlos Garza proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas: Common TLS utilities  https://review.openstack.org/14291502:09
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openstackgerritCarlos Garza proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas: Common TLS utilities  https://review.openstack.org/14291502:54
openstackgerritCarlos Garza proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas: Common TLS utilities  https://review.openstack.org/14291503:01
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rm_you|blogan: blogan04:47
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rm_youblogan: you there?04:51
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openstackgerritBrandon Logan proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas: Simplify user workflow creating loadbalancers  https://review.openstack.org/14483405:38
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openstackgerritBrandon Logan proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas: Simplify user workflow creating loadbalancers  https://review.openstack.org/14483405:48
bloganyo05:54
bloganrm_you: am now05:54
blogansbalukoff: since i lost the amphora debate, may as well go with artifex05:56
blogani disagree with worker being to generic and artifex isn't though, if artifex means worker, then thats just as generic05:56
openstackgerritBrandon Logan proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas: Simplify user workflow creating loadbalancers  https://review.openstack.org/14483406:04
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sbalukoffblogan: I agree that artifex isn't any more specific than worker.06:30
rm_youwtf are you guys talking about06:30
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sbalukoffrm_work: "Deploy worker" is too specific. So we could go with "worker" or...  artifex, which is latin for 'worker' (you know, going off that whole ancient Rome theme).07:46
rm_youuhh07:50
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rm_youso the reason we needed to use the term Amphora is because the word "container" in our context was *already used* by something specific, and that thing was NOT what we were talking about08:14
rm_youI think in this case, the term worker is actually too generic08:14
rm_youit should be something like "deploy_shared_codebase"08:15
rm_youlol08:15
rm_younot exactly that, because that is dumb08:15
rm_youbut I don't think it needs it's own proper noun kind of word <_<08:15
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sbalukoffrm_you: That's fine. I think spending more than about 30 seconds on this is bikeshedding, and I'd rather just pick something less specific than "deploy worker" and move on.08:28
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rm_youyeah T_T08:29
rm_youi missed where the discussion actually started or was taking place >_>08:29
rm_youah well08:29
* rm_you heads to bed08:30
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bloganyall sure like using the term bikeshedding now16:32
bloganwhats latin for queue consumer?16:33
TrevorV_blogan, http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/latin-word-for-cb7a82c317871051c535dc464aab698448138aae.html16:52
bloganTrevorV_: I was joking16:59
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TrevorV_blogan, I know :D17:09
rm_workblogan: T_T17:09
rm_worki still feel like there was more to that discussion that i missed17:09
rm_workbut ah well17:09
bloganno it was basically what sbalukoff said17:11
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xgermanlet's vote on names again17:25
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bloganlets vote on whether we should vote on names again17:28
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rm_work#vote sandwiches (looooonch, bbl)17:47
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dougwigoh lord, not amphora redux 77.18:29
dougwigcan we go back to "vm" yet?18:29
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xgermanTrevorV, blogan, rmwork: I was playing with the nova driver and here are a couple of issues:19:32
xgerman- we (=HP) need support for regions19:32
xgerman- we can deal with nova being v3 only but our public cloud runs v2 so that would be nice if this would be configurable19:33
xgermanI am finding more stuff - but wondeirng if I should just make a patch... or how we should handle that...19:33
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jorgemrm_work: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/octavia/+spec/tls-data-security https://blueprints.launchpad.net/octavia/+spec/barbican-interface-library19:47
rm_workjohnsom: hey ^^ per above, looks like you created a BP for something I was tracking as part of another BP already19:53
rm_workjohnsom: and the thing you made the BP for is "done"19:53
johnsomwhich BP?19:54
rm_workcrc32: Per-secret Policy (the Barbican alternative to Keystone Trusts): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127353/19:54
rm_workjohnsom: the ones jorgem linked above19:54
johnsomI did not create tls-data-security, sbalukoff did.  The barbican one was a placeholder for the controller break out.19:56
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johnsomI can mark it superseded.  Which one covers that?19:56
johnsomDoes the tls-data-security cover barbican-interface-library?19:57
rm_workcrc32: Spec for Identifying CAs (the basis of the CA stuff): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129048/ and then the one we'd use (private self-signed): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140575/19:58
rm_workjohnsom: yes19:58
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johnsomrm_work: done19:59
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openstackgerritCarlos Garza proposed openstack/neutron-lbaas: Common TLS utilities  https://review.openstack.org/14291520:14
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openstackgerritTrevor Vardeman proposed stackforge/octavia: haproxy reference amphora API client  https://review.openstack.org/14563720:25
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rm_workjohnsom: thanks20:51
bloganxgerman: yeah im pretty sure we run v2 here at rax too for nova20:53
rm_workcrc32: this is actually the CSR spec I think: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129048/20:53
xgermanyeah, the code is v320:53
xgermanalso I found an issue with the interface list20:53
xgermanwe don't have that extension but there is a build in network property20:54
bloganxgerman: ok we can definitely work to get a solution that works for everyone20:56
blogana driver for the nova driver eh?20:57
bloganlets do it!20:57
xgermanlol20:57
xgermanI think we should be able to pack that in one driver20:57
bloganyeah im sure we can20:58
xgermanI can propose a patch later today which toggles between v2 and v3 and checks for that extension20:59
bloganbe my guest, whatever it takes to get that working21:00
xgermanbut I am wondeirng if we need the interface extension or if network is goo enough21:00
xgermancode:21:00
xgerman  def _translate_amphora(self, nova_response):21:00
xgerman        '''Convert a nova virtual machine into an amphora object.21:00
xgerman        :param nova_response: JSON response from nova21:00
xgerman        :returns: an amphora object21:00
xgerman        '''21:00
xgerman        # Extract information from nova response to populate desired amphora21:00
xgerman        # fields21:00
xgerman        lb_network_ip = None21:00
xgerman        for interface in nova_response.networks:21:00
xgerman            if interface == CONF.networking.lb_network_id:21:00
xgerman                lb_network_ip = nova_response.networks[interface]21:00
dougwigpastebin, xgerman21:00
xgerman        response = models.Amphora(21:00
xgerman            compute_id=nova_response.id,21:00
xgerman            status=nova_response.status,21:00
xgerman            lb_network_ip=lb_network_ip21:00
xgerman        )21:00
xgerman        return response21:00
dougwiginstead of toggling, shouldn't we have two drivers (one v2, one v3) ?21:01
xgermanhttp://pastebin.com/LDNxSAZB21:01
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xgermanwell, it just changes some constant21:01
rm_workcrc32: this might also be interesting: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142212/21:04
xgermanok, I will just propose a patch later today and then we can discuss ;-)21:09
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dougwigxgerman: then you can have one derive from the other, but the toggle is still in the driver selection.21:18
dougwigi guess that's six and one half dozen.21:19
xgermanok, sounds good21:19
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bloganxgerman: if you can get the ips for all the nics without that then go for it21:24
xgermanit seems I can do that21:24
xgermanok, I will make a patch then ;-)21:25
bloganxgerman: TrevorV and rm_work/rm_you worked on that together, so I would ask them why they were using that method21:26
bloganwhich i just did21:26
xgermanthanks - I was wondeirng myself21:26
TrevorV_woah wait what?21:31
xgermanhttp://pastebin.com/LDNxSAZB21:32
xgermaninterfaces is some extension HP cloud doesn't have21:32
xgermanso I coded it with the newtorks attrribute on the server21:32
xgermanwonder why you guys picked interfaces?21:32
TrevorV_That's rm_work / rm_you 's fault...21:33
xgermanwell, I am also running nova v2 (had to change that in code, too)21:33
TrevorV_He told me the other one wasn't a guarantee or something like that, and interfaces was21:33
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TrevorV_xgerman, that should be a config value, did I mess that up?21:33
TrevorV_I probably hard-coded it21:33
TrevorV_:(21:33
xgermanyep + dougwig suggested making two drivers v2 and v321:34
rm_workTrevorV_: yep i told blogan already :P21:34
rm_workI was about to look and see if we can get to the attribute that German is talking about21:34
TrevorV_Damnit... Now I feel bad, thought I had that already sorted out.21:34
xgermanrm_work can you repat for people who don't have bugged RAX's office21:34
rm_workxgerman: was referring to [15:32:53]  <TrevorV_>That's rm_work / rm_you 's fault...21:35
rm_workit is in fact my fault21:35
xgermanok21:35
rm_workI told TrevorV_ to use that nova ttribute21:35
rm_work*attribute21:35
rm_workbecause in our system it was the simplest to guarantee correctness21:35
TrevorV_(just means I didn't think for myself, rm_work)21:35
rm_workthe other way is possible but kinda icky21:35
TrevorV_Lulz21:35
rm_workI did not realize that was our own extension21:35
xgermanyeah, glad I tried that this monring ;-)21:36
TrevorV_Are there significant differences between v2 and v3 clients that we'd need multiple drivers?21:36
rm_workTrevorV_: there is no nova v321:36
xgermanalso all those get('id') or whatever break21:36
TrevorV_its documented, is it not?21:36
rm_workthey abandoned v321:36
TrevorV_Ooooh okay21:36
rm_workthere will be a nova v2.121:36
TrevorV_wait, xgerman what do you mean?21:36
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rm_workthey decided to move to microversioning and not do a whole breaking rewrite, i think21:37
TrevorV_xgerman, you're saying there is no "id" field returned by nova?21:37
rm_workxgerman: something.get('id') should by definition NOT break21:37
rm_workthat's the point of "get()"21:37
rm_workunless "something" is None21:37
xgermanwell, it only worked on my end when I said .id21:37
rm_workuhh21:37
TrevorV_That makes even less sense ha ha21:37
rm_workit's properties and not a dict?21:37
rm_workwtf21:37
xgermanyep21:38
xgermanmight be a v2 thing21:38
rm_workxgerman: can you paste me the python code necessary to spin up a nova client and get that result?21:38
rm_workwithout your keys, obviously21:38
TrevorV_brb21:38
rm_workI can compare it to what I was doing21:38
rm_workxgerman: I assume you have just done it in a python CLI21:38
rm_workto test21:38
xgermannope, I pliugged it into my taskflow to spin up an amphora21:39
xgermanmy code: http://pastebin.com/GYAhJ5i721:39
dougwigkeep in mind that "two drivers" might just be one class that derives from another ,with a different constant set in init.21:40
xgermanyep21:40
xgermanthat seems the most sane21:40
TrevorV_that's fair dougwig21:43
xgermanI can hammer out that patch (but I don't have a v3 system to test - yet)21:45
rm_work(there is no nova v3)21:45
xgermanthat explains it ;-)21:45
rm_workso, there's this21:45
rm_workhttp://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v3.html21:45
rm_workwhich was abandoned21:45
bloganit is or will be 2.1, which means it will be backwards compatible with 2.021:45
rm_workI am trying to find somewhere that actually clearly states what happened21:46
rm_workit became this: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v2.1.html21:46
rm_workper http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref.html (I guess that's the best i can do)21:46
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xgermanso what are we gonna do?21:52
dougwigaren't they going to micro versions?21:52
xgermanyep, that, too21:52
rm_workyes21:53
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TrevorV_xgerman, there should only be one location to choose what version it is, if I remember correctly21:57
xgermanyep21:58
openstackgerritGerman Eichberger proposed stackforge/octavia: Patches nova client to work with HP Cloud  https://review.openstack.org/14767421:59
xgerman^^^ this si the ode which will fail py2721:59
xgermanor not22:00
xgermanTrevorV_, rm_work22:01
rm_workhmm22:01
rm_workI am slightly concerned about the property vs. dictionary thing22:02
xgermanwell, now you have code to play with and let me know ;-)22:02
rm_workyeah i will look22:02
TrevorV_thanks for looking at this xgerman22:09
TrevorV_My fault for not doing a more thorough job :(22:09
TrevorV_Did have one nit though22:09
xgermanwell, I reviewed it so it's my fault as well ;-)22:09
TrevorV_as rm_work said, that dictionary versus property thing was surprising22:10
rm_worki am trying to get keystone to auth me right now22:10
TrevorV_Mostly because I thought that was interchangeable but had distinct differences... my fault for making an assumption22:10
rm_workbut once I get that22:10
rm_worki will know wtf22:10
rm_workdamnit keystone22:11
xgermancool22:11
TrevorV_switching my computer to windows, be back shortly22:12
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rm_workok, properties is correct22:15
rm_workchecking networks stuff now22:15
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rm_workxgerman: as long as the Amphora model can handle "lb_network_ip" being a list (including ipv4 and ipv6) then your code is good22:18
xgermanwe don't have ipv6/v4 mixed so i am not sure...22:19
TrevorV_Alright, I'm here.22:20
TrevorV_So what was the thing figured out about property versus dict?22:20
rm_worka property is accessed "object.property"22:20
rm_workobject.get("thing") only works if object is a dict()22:20
TrevorV_Yes, thanks for the python lesson :P  I was referring to what was returned in the nova-client.22:21
rm_worknova client returns an object22:21
TrevorV_Its an object then?  I was under the impression it WAS a dict22:21
TrevorV_Gotcha22:21
TrevorV_My fault then22:21
TrevorV_Misunderstood that part as well22:21
rm_workI think when I was showing you stuff, I was showing you a dict-dump of the object22:21
TrevorV_Thanks for the catch xgerman22:21
xgermanno worries -- I should have caught ti during review...22:22
rm_workbut under the (mistaken) assumption that you understood that wasn't the actual object :P22:22
rm_workbecause a dict-dump was the easiest way to enumerate what all the object had22:22
TrevorV_Right, dictionaries CAN use the dot notation though right?22:22
rm_worknope22:22
TrevorV_You sure about that?22:23
rm_workyes22:23
rm_workserver = mynova.servers.get(server_id)22:23
rm_workserver.to_dict()22:23
rm_workis what I showed you22:23
rm_workmay have not explained that well at the time22:23
rm_work<_<22:23
rm_workxgerman: reviewed22:26
xgermancool22:27
TrevorV_See I thought you me and brandon talked about the dot notation versus the .get notation... and .get was appropriate in one situation but still interchangeable somewhere22:27
rm_workyou can do either:22:27
rm_workmydict['apples'] OR mydict.get('apples')22:27
rm_workin the first case, you'll get a KeyError if there's no 'apples'22:28
rm_workin the second, you'22:28
rm_work*you'll just get None returned22:28
rm_worksometimes you'll want a keyerror and sometimes you'll want it to be more graceful22:28
rm_workor, you can do mydict.get('apples', 0)22:28
rm_workto set the default return to 022:28
TrevorV_Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh22:28
TrevorV_Okay, so it wasn't dot, it was bracket22:29
TrevorV_My fault22:29
TrevorV_Okay, my brain was a little broked there22:29
rm_workiz cool, you pulled one over on all the reviewers :P22:29
TrevorV_NOT on purpose22:29
TrevorV_:D22:29
rm_work:P22:29
TrevorV_So I won't take the "juked me out" credit, but the "you messed up" credit I'll accept22:29
rm_worklol22:29
rm_workreview juking22:30
dougwigi usually don't want a key error, so I think they got the [] vs method wrong (ruby[] is None if missing, which is vastly nicer.)22:30
rm_workeh22:30
rm_workI like it if I want to be doing try/catch22:30
rm_workespecially if None is a value that might be possible to set22:30
TrevorV_Like, nullable fields rm_work ?22:30
rm_workit is important to know the difference between "unset" and None22:30
rm_workyes22:31
dougwigi'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do that; i'm saying which is really the common case?22:31
dougwigand that common case should get the []22:31
rm_workeh.22:32
TrevorV_Alright, well, since python is opensource you should go in there and make it happen.  We'll wait here :D22:32
rm_work^^22:32
rm_workI said that to crc32 about gerrit earlier and I just got a glare :P22:33
dougwigha, if I had that pull, i'd make whitespace not significant.22:33
blogandougwig quit extolling ruby22:33
dougwigthat last is extolling nearly every other language.22:33
rm_workdougwig is master troll22:34
* dougwig demands a toll.22:34
rm_workpython whitespace is actually one reason I love python so much :P22:34
blogani like the forced indentation in python22:34
rm_workit FORCES good code style22:34
bloganstyle = format?22:34
crc32rm_workspace: Considering I can't see whitespace to fix it. Its one of my pet peeves.22:35
bloganlol rm_workspace22:35
rm_workheh22:38
dougwigi learned python in the bad years of space vs tab not doing sane things when inter-mixed.22:39
rm_workit's still pretty messed up with tabs22:39
rm_workbut most IDEs auto-replace with 4x space now22:39
dougwigplus, it's goddamn annoying when it forces a trivial one-line loop to be spread out.22:39
rm_workthat's PEP8 I thought, not technically a pure python restriction22:40
rm_workI thought you could do:22:40
rm_workfor i in range(1,10): print(i)22:40
dougwigyeah, i want to see that get accepted.22:41
TrevorV_I think there are a lot of pep8 issues I don't really care for.22:41
TrevorV_pep8 restrictions I mean22:41
rm_workdougwig: my point is it *works* in python22:43
rm_workit's just pep8 that says "don't please"22:43
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rm_workis this review still actually still being worked on? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141948/ mwang2__23:23
rm_workcan't quite tell, there are like 4 reviews that are updating aspects of this same thing, and most are merged but this is WIP and older?23:24
mwang2__thie one can be abonded23:25
rm_workok, you are the only one who has the "abandon" button23:25
rm_workcan you do that?23:26
mwang2__let me find it23:26
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dougwiganyone else get killed by that net split?23:28
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rm_workmwang2__: should be in the middle of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141948/ right below the current patchset, next to the review button23:31
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mwang2__done23:32
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rm_workcool23:36
openstackgerritGerman Eichberger proposed stackforge/octavia: Patches nova client to work with HP Cloud  https://review.openstack.org/14767423:38
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