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| maishsk | enikanorov: HI - you around? | 09:45 |
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| sballe_ | The website for session suggestions isn't open yet... Any idea when that willl happen? http://summit.openstack.org/ | 13:36 |
| sballe_ | mestery, ^^^^ | 13:36 |
| mestery | sballe_: Not until after RC I believe | 13:37 |
| sballe_ | ok thx | 13:37 |
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| dougwig | morning | 17:24 |
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| blogan | afternoon | 17:47 |
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| xgerman | blogan, yt? | 19:34 |
| xgerman | dougwig? | 19:35 |
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| blogan | xgerman huh? | 19:47 |
| xgerman | our lawyers wanted to know if Octavia enforces the CLA - luckily: https://github.com/openstack-infra/config/blob/master/modules/openstack_project/files/gerrit/acls/stackforge/octavia.config#L11 | 19:48 |
| xgerman | took me a while and some help to figure that out :-) | 19:48 |
| blogan | xgerman: ahh nice | 19:51 |
| xgerman | yeah, in case you get the same question from your lawyers :-) | 19:51 |
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| dougwig | xgerman: here | 20:20 |
| xgerman | I figured it out... | 20:20 |
| blogan | i try to stay away from lawyers | 20:23 |
| blogan | if i have to talk to a lawyer 9 times out of 10 its not good | 20:23 |
| dougwig | then you need to be committing better crimes. | 20:31 |
| xgerman | :-) | 20:33 |
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| blogan | im going to make a trip to idaho and dress up as an elk, then you'll be the one talking to a lawyer | 20:45 |
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| sbalukoff | Just FYI, y'all: I'm out of the office tomorrow and throughout the weekend. | 21:04 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: Heh! I had a brother-in-law who got arrested for shooting a fake deer next to the road. Guy was a complete douche, and my sister was much better off after he divorced his worthless ass. | 21:06 |
| sbalukoff | Not that I'm biased or anything. | 21:06 |
| blogan | you sound quite biased actually | 21:06 |
| blogan | it sounds like you didn't like him | 21:06 |
| blogan | but i could be reading that wrong | 21:06 |
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| sbalukoff | :) | 21:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | Trevor Vardeman proposed a change to stackforge/octavia: Initial creation of db models, modules, and tests https://review.openstack.org/116718 | 22:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | Trevor Vardeman proposed a change to stackforge/octavia: Initial creation of repository classes and tests https://review.openstack.org/120927 | 22:29 |
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| xgerman | TrevorV. blogan: Quick question: | 22:37 |
| xgerman | It looks like you model Amphora 1->*LBs | 22:37 |
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| xgerman | I guess I am cutting into foosball time | 22:42 |
| xgerman | and it looks like many-to-many :-( | 22:49 |
| TrevorV | sorry xgerman | 23:00 |
| TrevorV | its many to many my friend | 23:00 |
| TrevorV | Foosball happened after lunch today, I was just using the restroom | 23:00 |
| xgerman | cool. I figured that out. | 23:01 |
| TrevorV | Yeah, just figured a confirmation wouldn't be a bad thing in this case :D | 23:01 |
| xgerman | I should have paid more attention since I think LB 1->* Amphorae covers most cases | 23:01 |
| xgerman | aka I am lacking the use case for many LB's on one Amphora :-) | 23:03 |
| TrevorV | blogan was in agreement xgerman, but we went with the many to many just in case | 23:03 |
| xgerman | ok, I just noticed when I started reviewing your code... anyhow, we can leave it :-) | 23:03 |
| TrevorV | as rm_work suggested, we decided multiple LBs per amphora would be cost efficient (potentially) | 23:03 |
| xgerman | I am more thinking multiple amphora per LB | 23:04 |
| davidlenwell | multiple tennents on the same lb? | 23:05 |
| davidlenwell | or same tennents pooled on amphora? | 23:05 |
| xgerman | same tennents pooled | 23:05 |
| davidlenwell | okay good | 23:05 |
| davidlenwell | I was going to start flipping tables over | 23:05 |
| davidlenwell | ;) | 23:05 |
| xgerman | but I still think that's a stretch since I would just sue smaller vms to balance | 23:05 |
| xgerman | to each his own though :-) | 23:06 |
| davidlenwell | I think smaller vm's and keeping things more compartmentalized is a good thing | 23:06 |
| davidlenwell | but thats just my humble opinion | 23:06 |
| xgerman | and you cna overcommit vms to a physical host, too | 23:06 |
| rm_work | multiple amphora per LB makes sense because that is our scaling mechanism | 23:06 |
| rm_work | anywho, bbl | 23:06 |
| xgerman | rm_work - we are looking itno that, too | 23:07 |
| xgerman | after all we are now under your old management | 23:07 |
| xgerman | so yeah, in my opinion many<->many is overkill ;-) | 23:08 |
| TrevorV | xgerman, you can definitely comment that in the patch set 1 :D | 23:10 |
| TrevorV | Sorry, I meant in the patch set | 23:10 |
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| xgerman | well, I just +2 blogans chnage establishing that reality the other day | 23:10 |
| xgerman | but I might :-) | 23:10 |
| TrevorV | Right, but you can always change a review decision, ya know? :) | 23:11 |
| TrevorV | Make sure to detail its his fault. | 23:11 |
| xgerman | sbalukoff always holds me to my +2s as I am infallible | 23:12 |
| sbalukoff | Heh! | 23:12 |
| TrevorV | sbalukoff, is a frivolous human being. We accept him for who he is. | 23:13 |
| TrevorV | o_0 | 23:13 |
| sbalukoff | <3 | 23:14 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: I'm starting to become less convinced that the multiple LBs per Amphora is a use case we really need to support. | 23:14 |
| sbalukoff | I know we've got those colocation / aplocation requirements that I've been pushing for. | 23:15 |
| xgerman | yep, and on my side we likely will use heavily multiple amphora per load balancer for scaling | 23:15 |
| sbalukoff | But I think I might be able to push back on that by pointing out that even "dev" instances can simply use smaller amphoras, and that separation of concerns and simplicity is worth it, outweighing the cost-saving argument. | 23:16 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: Yes, as will we. | 23:16 |
| sbalukoff | We'll all have to: TLS termination doesn't scale unless you do. | 23:16 |
| xgerman | ok, also you can oversubscribe your nova instance to get cost saving there | 23:16 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: Which is essentially what our customers have been doing by oversubscribing the load balancer. | 23:17 |
| xgerman | yeah, we do it for them :-) | 23:18 |
| sbalukoff | In any case, one LB per Amphora is how we should write things initially, so we don't have to worry too much about the logic of how to determine when an amphora is "full" | 23:18 |
| sbalukoff | (Which turns out to be a non-trivial problem to solve.) | 23:18 |
| xgerman | +1 | 23:18 |
| xgerman | and also nova has a way to determine when an instance is full | 23:19 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: I'm not sure I would trust it. ;) | 23:19 |
| xgerman | we shouldn't duplicate what they are doing :-) | 23:19 |
| xgerman | you can always write patches for them :-) | 23:19 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: We have a very specialized workload, and generic measures tend not to be intelligent enough for that sort of thing. | 23:19 |
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| sbalukoff | Well, maybe. | 23:20 |
| sbalukoff | The nice part about a specialized workload is we can use additional metrics that might not be available or meaningful to more generic measures (eg. requests / second, number of simultaneous sessions, etc.) | 23:21 |
| sbalukoff | If we make those available to something like heat, intelligent auto-scale is the next obvious step. | 23:21 |
| sbalukoff | But... I digress. :) | 23:21 |
| sbalukoff | Let's make our friggen load balancer work first. :D | 23:22 |
| xgerman | yep. On the other hand I don'r know enough about the nova scheduler to have an informed opinion | 23:22 |
| sbalukoff | (For the simple case.) | 23:22 |
| xgerman | cool, it seems we are in agreement :-) | 23:23 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: I know. Strange, isn't it? | 23:23 |
| sbalukoff | Gives me the willies. | 23:23 |
| xgerman | feels weird, too :-) | 23:24 |
| xgerman | so another unrelated question: Are you envisioning the driver to spin up some thread which listens for all the UDP packest from the amphora or would the controller do that and then hand that to the driver | 23:25 |
| sbalukoff | The former, I'm thinking. Other amphoras might not work the way we make the haproxy amphora work. | 23:26 |
| sbalukoff | (That is to say, they may not use the UDP packets for healthchecks or whatever.) | 23:26 |
| xgerman | yeah, that makes sense - BUT I haye asynchronous drivers | 23:27 |
| xgerman | hate | 23:27 |
| sbalukoff | No way around it. | 23:27 |
| sbalukoff | Not everything can be synchronous. :P | 23:27 |
| xgerman | I know I lost the vote :-) | 23:27 |
| xgerman | now we have to deal with hard problems like do we use eventlet for multithreading, etc. | 23:28 |
| sbalukoff | Yeah. :/ | 23:28 |
| sbalukoff | I'm hoping that we can make most things synchronous. | 23:29 |
| sbalukoff | And that the async stuff is really the relatively rare exception. | 23:29 |
| xgerman | well, async and databases is a can of worms | 23:30 |
| xgerman | which leads to locking, etc. | 23:30 |
| sbalukoff | Also, I went over our designs with Devananda yesterday, and he pointed out something with how we're communicating that is... annoying. And takes a bit to explain. But it may mean we might have to alter our communication model with the amphoras. | 23:30 |
| sbalukoff | I will be writing a ML thread on this, because... well, it's better to get this figured out before we write a bunch of code for it. | 23:31 |
| xgerman | is it something which is better explained in webEx? | 23:31 |
| sbalukoff | HAHAHA! Actually, I'm not sure it is. | 23:33 |
| sbalukoff | It'll probably take a diagram. | 23:33 |
| sbalukoff | And a lot of text. | 23:33 |
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| xgerman | ok, I will wait in anticipation | 23:34 |
| sbalukoff | It might take me a few days to write up. (We'll see how much time I have for that in Boise. I'm anticipating "not much" so it'll probably be mid next-week before I can.) | 23:34 |
| sbalukoff | But! It doesn't alter what we need to do at the core in the controller or amphora or anything. | 23:34 |
| sbalukoff | Just how they communicate. | 23:34 |
| xgerman | ok, sounds good | 23:35 |
| xgerman | I have to dream up a socket listener, queue, and worker pool to update the DB with stats and health, Fun, fun... | 23:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Trevor Vardeman proposed a change to stackforge/octavia: Initial creation of repository classes and tests https://review.openstack.org/120927 | 23:42 |
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