Saturday, 2017-03-04

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financeMannit’s friday night where is everyone00:44
financeMannthis is the day and time of week millions are made00:44
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jeckxiehi01:49
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financeMannyo02:00
financeMannjeckxie02:01
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sdakesup financeMann02:44
financeMannsuppp02:45
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sdakeok time for logan!!!03:03
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openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla master: Fix fluentd undefined method 'parse'  https://review.openstack.org/44062803:17
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openstackgerritcaoyuan proposed openstack/kolla-ansible master: Add the node_custom_config into task  https://review.openstack.org/44098203:22
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openstackgerritzhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla master: Fix fluentd undefined method 'parse'  https://review.openstack.org/44062803:30
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155004:38
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sp_afternoon everyone06:02
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hrwmorning06:47
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sdake_Jeffrey4l_ pbourke evening folks10:21
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financeMannGood Morning13:05
sp_financeMann: good morning13:12
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financeMannsp_ AMQP server on 192.168.1.112:5672 is unreachable13:36
financeMannvery weird13:36
financeMannall of a sudden13:36
financeManncant launch any instances13:36
openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155013:37
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155014:15
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155014:46
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openstackgerritMark Goddard proposed openstack/kolla master: [WIP]: Use ironic-inspector user for ironic-inspector  https://review.openstack.org/44160515:37
openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155015:38
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155016:17
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sdakesbezverk can you confirm or not whether those 3.0.2-beta2 images worked?16:49
openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155016:51
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kfox1111morning.18:09
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openstackgerritJeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla stable/mitaka: [TEST][MITAKA][KOLLA] test gate  https://review.openstack.org/44162218:12
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sdakesup kfox111118:39
kfox1111hey. :)18:45
sdakekfox1111 are you about?18:49
sdakesweet18:50
sdakeI just made the channel a whole let less noisy :)18:50
sdakelet/lot18:50
sdakekfox1111 ircssi is killing me18:50
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sdakekfox1111 apologies for lag - writing an email18:59
sdakekfox1111 can you have a look at this: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113209.html18:59
sdakeyou may have missed it or may not have, don't know18:59
sdakekfox1111 i'll be busy the next week and won't be able to see it through - need someone to shepard it :)18:59
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kfox1111sdake looking19:05
sdakebrb, testing something while you look19:05
kfox1111very rough/ugly, but coming along it looks like.19:08
sdakeyes it is ugly19:08
kfox1111would still really like to see a container for deployment with most of this stuff prebuilt,19:08
sdakeimagine it in its final state19:08
kfox1111rather then ask the user to do it.19:08
sdakethere is already a container that bmace put together19:08
kfox1111yeah.19:09
kfox1111then there's no pip install, git clone, etc.19:09
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sdakeright - the purpose of  this document is to document a deployment workflow not a a development workflow19:09
kfox1111no, I'm saying, the deployment workflow should be closer to the dev workflow.19:10
kfox1111share bits. :)19:10
sdakemany people find that uncomfortable that have spoken about it in the channel19:10
sdakealso at ptg it was identified as a blocking requirement for 1.0.019:10
kfox1111pip installing a bunch of stuff makes me nervious. 6 of one I guess.19:11
kfox1111what being ablocking requiremtn?19:11
sdakethe part that people find uncomfortable is using vagrant at all19:11
kfox1111a way to deploy, or manual instructions for deploying from source?19:11
kfox1111oh. 100% agree with that.19:11
sdakeit may be manual now19:11
kfox1111should need vagrent to deploy production.19:11
kfox1111but a container is a diffreent matter.19:12
sdakeshoudln't you mean ;)19:12
kfox1111yeah. shoudn't. sry.19:12
kfox1111a deployment tool container would be much preferable to deploying all the deploment tooling all over your mgmt box imo.19:12
sdakewell i think we can get from here to there using this form of documentation19:12
kfox1111yeah.19:12
sdakewalk run jump off a cliff etc :)19:12
kfox1111though I think most of this stuff is already in the container we got.19:12
sdakeit is - although I hate the symlinks19:13
sdakeand the muddling of the gating with the deployment19:13
kfox1111yeah. I agree. its kind of nasty.19:13
sdakedevs want to undestand how this stuff works19:13
kfox1111its really temporary though.19:13
sdakenot have something magically work :)19:13
sdakedefine temporary :)19:13
kfox1111once we get configmaps into helm and the last 3 packages to helm,19:14
kfox1111we can do a pythonless install.19:14
sdakedo you mean external configmaps to helm?19:14
kfox1111yeah.19:14
kfox1111liek, when we can use helm configmap packages instead of kolla-ansible genconfig.19:15
kfox1111most of the uglies left are dealing with genconfig plumbing.19:15
kfox1111the rest are 2 ceph test packages and the set-ip package.19:15
kfox1111then no reason to need pip at all I think for a deployment.19:15
kfox1111if we could finish porting the last few kolla-kubernetes packages at least,19:16
kfox1111we could get rid of all the kolla-kubernetes python setup bits.19:16
kfox1111then we wuld only need the kolla-ansible stuf. so fairly low hanging fruit to simplify things.19:17
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sdakehow do we end up getting rid of the need to pip install kolla-kubernetes by using external helm config maps?19:20
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kfox1111we can then use helm for everything rather then use python to generate the kube objects.19:21
sdakethe helm charts are built how?19:22
kfox1111ideally the tested/built packages woudl get released.19:22
kfox1111then user does something like:19:22
kfox1111helm repo add kolla http://tarballs.o.o/kolla-kubernetes/ocata19:23
kfox1111helm install ...19:23
sdakehow do the tested/build packages get released?  - what tooling does that work?19:23
kfox1111so all the user needs is a k8s and helm.19:23
kfox1111we've got hooks to post built stuff to tarballs.o.o.19:24
kfox1111helm just needs a webserver to pull packages from.19:24
kfox1111nothing special in a helm repo.19:24
sdakeas we serve as an upstream project for downstream products, downstream products generally have a requirement to be able to build the helm charts on their own19:25
kfox1111yeah. thats fine. but that is'nt a normal case.19:25
kfox1111general user won't need python at all. devels/downstreams probably will.19:25
sdakeright - so we will still need some python setup bits for the downstreams19:26
sdakeas well as developers19:26
kfox1111yeah. but I see no reason for the simlinky stuff anymore in that world.19:26
sdakeROGER THAT19:26
sdakethe  symlinks annoy me to no end ;)19:28
sdakewhich is why that doc puts stuff in /opt19:28
sdakeok - so we have a decision point I think19:29
sdakeand that involves whether we should make the deployment workflow doc to match the current implementation19:30
sdakeif we don't do that, recruitment slows down as kolla-kubernetes is extremely difficult to deploy at present19:30
sdakeby extremely difficult - my personal experience was that it took me and a few others atleast 2 weeks to get to any type of working environment in which development could be done19:31
sdakedev rampup should take 30 minutes not 2 weeks19:31
sdake2 weeks is an extremely long time commitment for fresh devs - many just give up and move on19:32
sdakethis is why the current kolla-ansible quickstart guide, while being a little clunky, has been so wildly successful at bringing developers to kolla-ansible19:32
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kfox1111+1 for getting someting running asap.19:41
kfox1111a doc though thats 40% smaller though will be more likely to attract folks.19:41
kfox1111so a container or at least a script that sets things up instead of copy/paste is preffered I think.19:42
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sdakekfox1111 i'd be happy with any doc that gets people started - and then trimming as necessary19:48
sdakekfox1111 people want to understand how things work19:48
sdakekfox1111 this is the nature of developers :)19:49
sdakekfox1111 i think one benchmark we can use is kolla-ansible's quickstart guide19:50
sdakeits fairly quick - roughly 30 minutes if people read the instructions and follow them19:50
sdakekfox1111 if you can shepard it through or see that someone does I would appreciate it19:51
sdakeit will be emmensly helpful19:51
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kfox1111nature of devs, not nessisarily of ops.19:52
sdakei totally hear that19:52
sdakeops want magic pushbutton19:52
sdakedevs dont :)19:52
sdakewe will give ops what they want - to get there we need devs to understand how the magic pushbutton works19:52
kfox1111ops want a pushbutton they can trust. magic isn't trustable. :)19:52
sdakeright and the trust comes from what?19:53
kfox1111several different ways to build trust.19:53
sdakewhat immediately comes to mind19:53
kfox11111. it comes from a trusted source19:54
kfox11112. it has an extensive test suite19:54
kfox11113. the source is easily understandable by a non dev19:54
kfox1111etc.19:54
sdakeok - on #119:54
kfox1111at least one helps. multiple helps more.19:54
sdakewho makes up the trusted source?19:54
kfox11114. a source with a track record of not breaking things.19:54
kfox1111varies by person.19:55
kfox1111trust is earned.19:55
sdakedepends on worldview I suppose19:55
kfox1111yeah.19:55
sdakeassuming the worldview you just stated (trust is earned)19:55
kfox1111some just go with redhat or ubuntu for example, due to experience with one camp. which means the source is more implicitly trusted with new things.19:56
sdakewho is responsible for generating that trust?19:56
kfox1111every action builds or reduces trust.19:57
sdakenot what, who19:57
kfox1111leading question. that assumes its not everyone. :)19:57
sdakeok - lets take that assumption :)19:58
sdakeif trust is earned, trusting everyone is impossible19:58
kfox1111hmm... guess we need to define everyone then. :)19:59
kfox1111since we're talking about kolla-kubernetes,19:59
kfox1111everyone shoudl be restricted to everyone associated with the project either as a dev/reviewer/downstream/operator?20:00
kfox1111the whole community.20:00
kfox1111though folks outside the community could increase/decrease trust still...20:00
sdakeat a fundamental level what always increases trust?20:01
kfox1111not sure I follow.20:01
sdakeyou said earlier every action increases or decreases trust20:02
sdakethere are two classifications of actions in your world view20:02
sdakethose that increase trust and those that reduce it20:02
sdakewhich action always increases trust?20:03
kfox1111I'm not sure its that simple.20:04
kfox1111the same action percieved by different people could raise or lower trust.20:05
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sdakejust your worldview we are talking about here :)20:06
sdakefwiw you just taught me something20:06
kfox1111oh. so, ou asking what I personally would see as actions that would build trust or loose it in a project?20:07
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sdakeyup20:07
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sdakejust interested in the build trust part20:07
kfox1111ah. thats easier for me to answer. as I only need to be in my own head. :)20:07
kfox1111hmm... lets see.20:08
kfox1111caviot, I'm my own personal brand of weird, so take my own preferences with a grain of salt (or more :)20:08
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kfox1111the word 'magic' is somewhat of a turnoff. with my operator hat on, magic is the thing that bites you at unexpected times.20:09
kfox1111personal experience has shown, projects that claim magic have bit me more then those that havent.20:09
sdakethat is something that decreases trust20:10
sdakewhat about building it?20:10
kfox1111seeing things that follow a pattern that has shown success in the past.20:11
kfox1111so, like gating/testing.20:11
sdakeyup agree 100% wit h 2,3,4 above20:11
sdakejust focused on #1 :)20:11
kfox1111if its tested on each commit, I'm muc hmore likely to trust the project isn't going to break something on me.20:11
kfox1111if its human tested, its less likely all the things wil be tested consistently and riskier.20:11
kfox1111but still better then not testing at all.20:11
sdakea developer does what to commit a test?20:13
kfox1111not sure I understand the question. like, writing a gate job? or like, adding a unit test?20:13
sdakewhich command is run after the commit is ready to go20:14
sdakeon the command line by the dev20:14
kfox1111depends on the project. openstack uses zuul for gating. others have like travis, jenkins, etc.20:14
kfox1111as an op, I don't so much care what tool they use for testing. just that testing happens.20:15
sdakethat is what does the testing not what command is run to start the testing :)20:15
kfox1111did I answer your question with my last statement, or is there more?20:17
sdakei'm not sure if you did :)20:17
sdakelet me restate the question, when you submit a review, what command do you use?20:17
kfox1111in openstack, git review20:18
sdakewhy do we do git review?20:18
kfox1111its another tool for quality control. human review in addition to automated testing.20:19
kfox1111that activity also increases trust generally.20:19
sdakeinteresting perspective - thanks :)20:19
kfox1111though if you have mismatched reviewers, not nessisarily.20:19
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155020:43
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155021:17
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155022:10
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155022:30
Marginhi , I opened a bug , https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/167005522:32
openstackLaunchpad bug 1670055 in kolla "failed to run vm on Ocata version after deployed successfully" [Undecided,New]22:32
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Marginhi ,sdake22:51
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sdakesup margin22:51
Marginhave a good weekend22:51
sdaketrying to :)22:51
sdakeyou too :)22:52
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155022:58
Marginsdake, can you give a glance at https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/1670055 ?23:07
openstackLaunchpad bug 1670055 in kolla "failed to run vm on Ocata version after deployed successfully" [Undecided,New]23:07
sdakemargin looking moment23:11
sdakemargin there is a request for logs which I would have made but another core reviewer made it23:12
Marginok, It doesn't matter, please feel free23:13
sdakeMargin what I mean is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/1670055/comments/123:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1670055 in kolla "failed to run vm on Ocata version after deployed successfully" [Undecided,New]23:14
Marginyeah, I have noticed just now .23:14
sdakeoff to do miles of paperwork - enjoy :)23:15
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openstackgerritSerguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate  https://review.openstack.org/44155023:43

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