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financeMann | it’s friday night where is everyone | 00:44 |
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financeMann | this is the day and time of week millions are made | 00:44 |
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jeckxie | hi | 01:49 |
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financeMann | yo | 02:00 |
financeMann | jeckxie | 02:01 |
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sdake | sup financeMann | 02:44 |
financeMann | suppp | 02:45 |
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sdake | ok time for logan!!! | 03:03 |
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openstackgerrit | zhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla master: Fix fluentd undefined method 'parse' https://review.openstack.org/440628 | 03:17 |
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openstackgerrit | caoyuan proposed openstack/kolla-ansible master: Add the node_custom_config into task https://review.openstack.org/440982 | 03:22 |
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openstackgerrit | zhubingbing proposed openstack/kolla master: Fix fluentd undefined method 'parse' https://review.openstack.org/440628 | 03:30 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 04:38 |
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sp_ | afternoon everyone | 06:02 |
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hrw | morning | 06:47 |
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sdake_ | Jeffrey4l_ pbourke evening folks | 10:21 |
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financeMann | Good Morning | 13:05 |
sp_ | financeMann: good morning | 13:12 |
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financeMann | sp_ AMQP server on 192.168.1.112:5672 is unreachable | 13:36 |
financeMann | very weird | 13:36 |
financeMann | all of a sudden | 13:36 |
financeMann | cant launch any instances | 13:36 |
openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 13:37 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 14:15 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 14:46 |
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openstackgerrit | Mark Goddard proposed openstack/kolla master: [WIP]: Use ironic-inspector user for ironic-inspector https://review.openstack.org/441605 | 15:37 |
openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 15:38 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 16:17 |
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sdake | sbezverk can you confirm or not whether those 3.0.2-beta2 images worked? | 16:49 |
openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 16:51 |
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kfox1111 | morning. | 18:09 |
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openstackgerrit | Jeffrey Zhang proposed openstack/kolla stable/mitaka: [TEST][MITAKA][KOLLA] test gate https://review.openstack.org/441622 | 18:12 |
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sdake | sup kfox1111 | 18:39 |
kfox1111 | hey. :) | 18:45 |
sdake | kfox1111 are you about? | 18:49 |
sdake | sweet | 18:50 |
sdake | I just made the channel a whole let less noisy :) | 18:50 |
sdake | let/lot | 18:50 |
sdake | kfox1111 ircssi is killing me | 18:50 |
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sdake | kfox1111 apologies for lag - writing an email | 18:59 |
sdake | kfox1111 can you have a look at this: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113209.html | 18:59 |
sdake | you may have missed it or may not have, don't know | 18:59 |
sdake | kfox1111 i'll be busy the next week and won't be able to see it through - need someone to shepard it :) | 18:59 |
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kfox1111 | sdake looking | 19:05 |
sdake | brb, testing something while you look | 19:05 |
kfox1111 | very rough/ugly, but coming along it looks like. | 19:08 |
sdake | yes it is ugly | 19:08 |
kfox1111 | would still really like to see a container for deployment with most of this stuff prebuilt, | 19:08 |
sdake | imagine it in its final state | 19:08 |
kfox1111 | rather then ask the user to do it. | 19:08 |
sdake | there is already a container that bmace put together | 19:08 |
kfox1111 | yeah. | 19:09 |
kfox1111 | then there's no pip install, git clone, etc. | 19:09 |
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sdake | right - the purpose of this document is to document a deployment workflow not a a development workflow | 19:09 |
kfox1111 | no, I'm saying, the deployment workflow should be closer to the dev workflow. | 19:10 |
kfox1111 | share bits. :) | 19:10 |
sdake | many people find that uncomfortable that have spoken about it in the channel | 19:10 |
sdake | also at ptg it was identified as a blocking requirement for 1.0.0 | 19:10 |
kfox1111 | pip installing a bunch of stuff makes me nervious. 6 of one I guess. | 19:11 |
kfox1111 | what being ablocking requiremtn? | 19:11 |
sdake | the part that people find uncomfortable is using vagrant at all | 19:11 |
kfox1111 | a way to deploy, or manual instructions for deploying from source? | 19:11 |
kfox1111 | oh. 100% agree with that. | 19:11 |
sdake | it may be manual now | 19:11 |
kfox1111 | should need vagrent to deploy production. | 19:11 |
kfox1111 | but a container is a diffreent matter. | 19:12 |
sdake | shoudln't you mean ;) | 19:12 |
kfox1111 | yeah. shoudn't. sry. | 19:12 |
kfox1111 | a deployment tool container would be much preferable to deploying all the deploment tooling all over your mgmt box imo. | 19:12 |
sdake | well i think we can get from here to there using this form of documentation | 19:12 |
kfox1111 | yeah. | 19:12 |
sdake | walk run jump off a cliff etc :) | 19:12 |
kfox1111 | though I think most of this stuff is already in the container we got. | 19:12 |
sdake | it is - although I hate the symlinks | 19:13 |
sdake | and the muddling of the gating with the deployment | 19:13 |
kfox1111 | yeah. I agree. its kind of nasty. | 19:13 |
sdake | devs want to undestand how this stuff works | 19:13 |
kfox1111 | its really temporary though. | 19:13 |
sdake | not have something magically work :) | 19:13 |
sdake | define temporary :) | 19:13 |
kfox1111 | once we get configmaps into helm and the last 3 packages to helm, | 19:14 |
kfox1111 | we can do a pythonless install. | 19:14 |
sdake | do you mean external configmaps to helm? | 19:14 |
kfox1111 | yeah. | 19:14 |
kfox1111 | liek, when we can use helm configmap packages instead of kolla-ansible genconfig. | 19:15 |
kfox1111 | most of the uglies left are dealing with genconfig plumbing. | 19:15 |
kfox1111 | the rest are 2 ceph test packages and the set-ip package. | 19:15 |
kfox1111 | then no reason to need pip at all I think for a deployment. | 19:15 |
kfox1111 | if we could finish porting the last few kolla-kubernetes packages at least, | 19:16 |
kfox1111 | we could get rid of all the kolla-kubernetes python setup bits. | 19:16 |
kfox1111 | then we wuld only need the kolla-ansible stuf. so fairly low hanging fruit to simplify things. | 19:17 |
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sdake | how do we end up getting rid of the need to pip install kolla-kubernetes by using external helm config maps? | 19:20 |
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kfox1111 | we can then use helm for everything rather then use python to generate the kube objects. | 19:21 |
sdake | the helm charts are built how? | 19:22 |
kfox1111 | ideally the tested/built packages woudl get released. | 19:22 |
kfox1111 | then user does something like: | 19:22 |
kfox1111 | helm repo add kolla http://tarballs.o.o/kolla-kubernetes/ocata | 19:23 |
kfox1111 | helm install ... | 19:23 |
sdake | how do the tested/build packages get released? - what tooling does that work? | 19:23 |
kfox1111 | so all the user needs is a k8s and helm. | 19:23 |
kfox1111 | we've got hooks to post built stuff to tarballs.o.o. | 19:24 |
kfox1111 | helm just needs a webserver to pull packages from. | 19:24 |
kfox1111 | nothing special in a helm repo. | 19:24 |
sdake | as we serve as an upstream project for downstream products, downstream products generally have a requirement to be able to build the helm charts on their own | 19:25 |
kfox1111 | yeah. thats fine. but that is'nt a normal case. | 19:25 |
kfox1111 | general user won't need python at all. devels/downstreams probably will. | 19:25 |
sdake | right - so we will still need some python setup bits for the downstreams | 19:26 |
sdake | as well as developers | 19:26 |
kfox1111 | yeah. but I see no reason for the simlinky stuff anymore in that world. | 19:26 |
sdake | ROGER THAT | 19:26 |
sdake | the symlinks annoy me to no end ;) | 19:28 |
sdake | which is why that doc puts stuff in /opt | 19:28 |
sdake | ok - so we have a decision point I think | 19:29 |
sdake | and that involves whether we should make the deployment workflow doc to match the current implementation | 19:30 |
sdake | if we don't do that, recruitment slows down as kolla-kubernetes is extremely difficult to deploy at present | 19:30 |
sdake | by extremely difficult - my personal experience was that it took me and a few others atleast 2 weeks to get to any type of working environment in which development could be done | 19:31 |
sdake | dev rampup should take 30 minutes not 2 weeks | 19:31 |
sdake | 2 weeks is an extremely long time commitment for fresh devs - many just give up and move on | 19:32 |
sdake | this is why the current kolla-ansible quickstart guide, while being a little clunky, has been so wildly successful at bringing developers to kolla-ansible | 19:32 |
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kfox1111 | +1 for getting someting running asap. | 19:41 |
kfox1111 | a doc though thats 40% smaller though will be more likely to attract folks. | 19:41 |
kfox1111 | so a container or at least a script that sets things up instead of copy/paste is preffered I think. | 19:42 |
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sdake | kfox1111 i'd be happy with any doc that gets people started - and then trimming as necessary | 19:48 |
sdake | kfox1111 people want to understand how things work | 19:48 |
sdake | kfox1111 this is the nature of developers :) | 19:49 |
sdake | kfox1111 i think one benchmark we can use is kolla-ansible's quickstart guide | 19:50 |
sdake | its fairly quick - roughly 30 minutes if people read the instructions and follow them | 19:50 |
sdake | kfox1111 if you can shepard it through or see that someone does I would appreciate it | 19:51 |
sdake | it will be emmensly helpful | 19:51 |
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kfox1111 | nature of devs, not nessisarily of ops. | 19:52 |
sdake | i totally hear that | 19:52 |
sdake | ops want magic pushbutton | 19:52 |
sdake | devs dont :) | 19:52 |
sdake | we will give ops what they want - to get there we need devs to understand how the magic pushbutton works | 19:52 |
kfox1111 | ops want a pushbutton they can trust. magic isn't trustable. :) | 19:52 |
sdake | right and the trust comes from what? | 19:53 |
kfox1111 | several different ways to build trust. | 19:53 |
sdake | what immediately comes to mind | 19:53 |
kfox1111 | 1. it comes from a trusted source | 19:54 |
kfox1111 | 2. it has an extensive test suite | 19:54 |
kfox1111 | 3. the source is easily understandable by a non dev | 19:54 |
kfox1111 | etc. | 19:54 |
sdake | ok - on #1 | 19:54 |
kfox1111 | at least one helps. multiple helps more. | 19:54 |
sdake | who makes up the trusted source? | 19:54 |
kfox1111 | 4. a source with a track record of not breaking things. | 19:54 |
kfox1111 | varies by person. | 19:55 |
kfox1111 | trust is earned. | 19:55 |
sdake | depends on worldview I suppose | 19:55 |
kfox1111 | yeah. | 19:55 |
sdake | assuming the worldview you just stated (trust is earned) | 19:55 |
kfox1111 | some just go with redhat or ubuntu for example, due to experience with one camp. which means the source is more implicitly trusted with new things. | 19:56 |
sdake | who is responsible for generating that trust? | 19:56 |
kfox1111 | every action builds or reduces trust. | 19:57 |
sdake | not what, who | 19:57 |
kfox1111 | leading question. that assumes its not everyone. :) | 19:57 |
sdake | ok - lets take that assumption :) | 19:58 |
sdake | if trust is earned, trusting everyone is impossible | 19:58 |
kfox1111 | hmm... guess we need to define everyone then. :) | 19:59 |
kfox1111 | since we're talking about kolla-kubernetes, | 19:59 |
kfox1111 | everyone shoudl be restricted to everyone associated with the project either as a dev/reviewer/downstream/operator? | 20:00 |
kfox1111 | the whole community. | 20:00 |
kfox1111 | though folks outside the community could increase/decrease trust still... | 20:00 |
sdake | at a fundamental level what always increases trust? | 20:01 |
kfox1111 | not sure I follow. | 20:01 |
sdake | you said earlier every action increases or decreases trust | 20:02 |
sdake | there are two classifications of actions in your world view | 20:02 |
sdake | those that increase trust and those that reduce it | 20:02 |
sdake | which action always increases trust? | 20:03 |
kfox1111 | I'm not sure its that simple. | 20:04 |
kfox1111 | the same action percieved by different people could raise or lower trust. | 20:05 |
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sdake | just your worldview we are talking about here :) | 20:06 |
sdake | fwiw you just taught me something | 20:06 |
kfox1111 | oh. so, ou asking what I personally would see as actions that would build trust or loose it in a project? | 20:07 |
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sdake | yup | 20:07 |
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sdake | just interested in the build trust part | 20:07 |
kfox1111 | ah. thats easier for me to answer. as I only need to be in my own head. :) | 20:07 |
kfox1111 | hmm... lets see. | 20:08 |
kfox1111 | caviot, I'm my own personal brand of weird, so take my own preferences with a grain of salt (or more :) | 20:08 |
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kfox1111 | the word 'magic' is somewhat of a turnoff. with my operator hat on, magic is the thing that bites you at unexpected times. | 20:09 |
kfox1111 | personal experience has shown, projects that claim magic have bit me more then those that havent. | 20:09 |
sdake | that is something that decreases trust | 20:10 |
sdake | what about building it? | 20:10 |
kfox1111 | seeing things that follow a pattern that has shown success in the past. | 20:11 |
kfox1111 | so, like gating/testing. | 20:11 |
sdake | yup agree 100% wit h 2,3,4 above | 20:11 |
sdake | just focused on #1 :) | 20:11 |
kfox1111 | if its tested on each commit, I'm muc hmore likely to trust the project isn't going to break something on me. | 20:11 |
kfox1111 | if its human tested, its less likely all the things wil be tested consistently and riskier. | 20:11 |
kfox1111 | but still better then not testing at all. | 20:11 |
sdake | a developer does what to commit a test? | 20:13 |
kfox1111 | not sure I understand the question. like, writing a gate job? or like, adding a unit test? | 20:13 |
sdake | which command is run after the commit is ready to go | 20:14 |
sdake | on the command line by the dev | 20:14 |
kfox1111 | depends on the project. openstack uses zuul for gating. others have like travis, jenkins, etc. | 20:14 |
kfox1111 | as an op, I don't so much care what tool they use for testing. just that testing happens. | 20:15 |
sdake | that is what does the testing not what command is run to start the testing :) | 20:15 |
kfox1111 | did I answer your question with my last statement, or is there more? | 20:17 |
sdake | i'm not sure if you did :) | 20:17 |
sdake | let me restate the question, when you submit a review, what command do you use? | 20:17 |
kfox1111 | in openstack, git review | 20:18 |
sdake | why do we do git review? | 20:18 |
kfox1111 | its another tool for quality control. human review in addition to automated testing. | 20:19 |
kfox1111 | that activity also increases trust generally. | 20:19 |
sdake | interesting perspective - thanks :) | 20:19 |
kfox1111 | though if you have mismatched reviewers, not nessisarily. | 20:19 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 20:43 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 21:17 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 22:10 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 22:30 |
Margin | hi , I opened a bug , https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/1670055 | 22:32 |
openstack | Launchpad bug 1670055 in kolla "failed to run vm on Ocata version after deployed successfully" [Undecided,New] | 22:32 |
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Margin | hi ,sdake | 22:51 |
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sdake | sup margin | 22:51 |
Margin | have a good weekend | 22:51 |
sdake | trying to :) | 22:51 |
sdake | you too :) | 22:52 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 22:58 |
Margin | sdake, can you give a glance at https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/1670055 ? | 23:07 |
openstack | Launchpad bug 1670055 in kolla "failed to run vm on Ocata version after deployed successfully" [Undecided,New] | 23:07 |
sdake | margin looking moment | 23:11 |
sdake | margin there is a request for logs which I would have made but another core reviewer made it | 23:12 |
Margin | ok, It doesn't matter, please feel free | 23:13 |
sdake | Margin what I mean is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kolla/+bug/1670055/comments/1 | 23:14 |
openstack | Launchpad bug 1670055 in kolla "failed to run vm on Ocata version after deployed successfully" [Undecided,New] | 23:14 |
Margin | yeah, I have noticed just now . | 23:14 |
sdake | off to do miles of paperwork - enjoy :) | 23:15 |
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openstackgerrit | Serguei Bezverkhi proposed openstack/kolla-kubernetes master: WIP Adding virtualbmc to the gate https://review.openstack.org/441550 | 23:43 |
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