| rpittau | good morning ironic! o/ | 07:04 |
|---|---|---|
| rpittau | fungi: usually on the day of the meeting, so today | 07:04 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/ironic master: trivial: follow-up on I07172e48207e09c0858298e34eea038c776d3c74 https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/953682 | 08:16 |
| abongale | good morning ironic! | 08:42 |
| abongale | Hey guys, the gating pipeline for https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/953323 failed on the metal3-integration job due to a connection issue while collecting logs: "rsync: connection unexpectedly closed". Job link: https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/f8d73a4e59f3423d9031afbe2c1a0384 — is it possible to get the pipeline re-run? | 09:03 |
| rpittau | abongale: not the single job, you'll have to do rerun all of them | 09:04 |
| abongale | rpittau: do we have docs that can guide me how to do it, please? and do I need a specific permission to do it? | 09:11 |
| rpittau | abongale: just type recheck in a comment and the reason | 09:11 |
| queensly[m] | Good morning | 09:18 |
| abongale | rpittau: thank you | 09:46 |
| opendevreview | Verification of a change to openstack/ironic master failed: fix: handle unexpected 'loop' in actions field https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/953323 | 10:05 |
| fungi | rpittau: should i update the date on the agenda myself then when adding a topic? it still says it's "for June 23, 2025" | 12:50 |
| TheJulia | good morning | 13:00 |
| TheJulia | fungi: if your going to propose an item, yeah, it helps | 13:01 |
| fungi | got it. i didn't know if the meeting chair did that in advance before soliciting agenda additions | 13:08 |
| fungi | and i was worried if i put something on there now it would be an addition to last week's agenda and dropped when the agenda was switched to this week's | 13:09 |
| TheJulia | nah, team practice is generally whoever runs the meeting, which may be anyone really at this point, does the needful | 13:12 |
| TheJulia | and just transforms, and sometimes means we revisit stuff, but that is often when we need to like if a bunch of folks are away | 13:12 |
| fungi | cool, i updated the date on it to reflect today's meeting in that case | 13:13 |
| fungi | thanks! | 13:13 |
| iurygregory | good morning ironic | 13:18 |
| TheJulia | fungi: moved to "Discussion" since it is now a planned topic | 13:18 |
| TheJulia | fungi: open discussion is much more for freeform items like grabbing a purple or green sash or the discussion of an unladen european swallow | 13:19 |
| TheJulia | and it's maximum speed. ;) | 13:19 |
| fungi | no coconuts, got it | 13:20 |
| * TheJulia wonders when we suddenly got stuck on a tropical island after our three hour tour | 13:21 | |
| * TheJulia wonders who is the professor | 13:21 | |
| opendevreview | Takashi Kajinami proposed openstack/ironic-inspector master: sqlalchemy: Use built-in declarative https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-inspector/+/953764 | 13:21 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/ironic master: fix: handle unexpected 'loop' in actions field https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/953323 | 13:31 |
| opendevreview | Abhishek Bongale proposed openstack/ironic-tempest-plugin master: WIP Add Tempest tests for inspection rules in Ironic https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-tempest-plugin/+/951761 | 13:46 |
| cardoe | good morning ironic | 14:19 |
| TheJulia | good morning | 14:22 |
| priteau | Hello Ironic! Is there a way to clear the last_error node field without making a state change? One of our customers have BMCs that sometimes become unresponsive. BMC reset fixes it, resolving the problem for Ironic, but the last_error entry remains and is displayed as an error pop-up in ironic-ui. | 14:55 |
| TheJulia | priteau: Greetings, as far as I'm aware, there is no way to clear it | 14:56 |
| TheJulia | I guess it would make sense to auto-clear upon power sync recovery if node history is enabled | 14:56 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 15:01 |
| * TheJulia wonders if we have quorum to hold a meeting | 15:01 | |
| iurygregory | o/ | 15:01 |
| fungi | isn't most of europe on vacation for the next 3 months? ;) | 15:01 |
| rpittau | o/ | 15:01 |
| cid | o/ | 15:01 |
| rpittau | fungi: if only! :D | 15:01 |
| TheJulia | ... not *all* of the EU | 15:02 |
| queensly[m] | o/ | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | #startmeeting ironic | 15:02 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Mon Jun 30 15:02:06 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is TheJulia. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic' | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 15:02 |
| rpittau | o/ | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | Good morning everyone! | 15:02 |
| cid | o/ | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | #topic Announcements / Reminders | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | #undo | 15:02 |
| opendevmeet | Removing item from minutes: #topic Announcements / Reminders | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | Our meeting agenda can be found on the wiki. | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic#Agenda_for_June_30.2C_2025 | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | #topic Announcements / Reminders | 15:02 |
| TheJulia | As a general reminder, please spend time and review ironic-week-prio items. | 15:03 |
| TheJulia | #link https://tinyurl.com/ironic-weekly-prio-dash | 15:03 |
| TheJulia | As a reminder, according to the release schedule, we're in week R-13. | 15:03 |
| TheJulia | #link https://releases.openstack.org/flamingo/schedule.html | 15:03 |
| TheJulia | Does anyone have anything to announce or remind us of? | 15:04 |
| rpittau | time flies? | 15:04 |
| TheJulia | It does! | 15:04 |
| fungi | forum session proposal deadline? | 15:05 |
| TheJulia | fungi: no idea on the date, if you have it and a link, please remind folks | 15:05 |
| iurygregory | July 09 | 15:05 |
| iurygregory | ops | 15:06 |
| iurygregory | 8 July: The Forum CFP closes | 15:06 |
| fungi | aha, thanks, i was hunting for the announcement link | 15:06 |
| iurygregory | #info Forum CFP closes on July 8 https://summit2025.openinfra.org/ | 15:06 |
| TheJulia | Excellent, Thanks! | 15:07 |
| iurygregory | np | 15:07 |
| TheJulia | Oh, one last item before working group updates. Next monday I'm going to be stuck in line to enter a service bay for some repair work, so.... I doub't I'll make the meeting. | 15:07 |
| TheJulia | If someone else can be sure to run the meeting, that would be awesome | 15:08 |
| TheJulia | #topic Working Group Updates | 15:08 |
| TheJulia | First up, the Standalone networking group | 15:08 |
| TheJulia | Looks like alegcy is not around today, I think they will be back next week. | 15:08 |
| TheJulia | Please take a little time to review the spec | 15:09 |
| TheJulia | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic-specs/+/952126 | 15:09 |
| TheJulia | As for Eventlet Removal! | 15:09 |
| TheJulia | Do we have anything to really discuss, aside from what I noted in the IRC log on Friday? | 15:09 |
| TheJulia | (We'll need to retool signal handling/stopping the conductor, and explicitly opt out of eventlet entirely with additional code | 15:10 |
| TheJulia | ) | 15:10 |
| cid | Nothing from my end. | 15:10 |
| TheJulia | Okay, then, on to Discussion topics! | 15:11 |
| TheJulia | #topic Discussion | 15:11 |
| TheJulia | fungi brings us a topic this week, "initial analysis of ironic surveys and metrics". | 15:11 |
| TheJulia | fungi: you have the floor | 15:11 |
| fungi | i'll try to be quick, but there's a lot we dug into... for some background on openstack-wide metrics analysis see ildikov's most recent ml post from 2 weeks ago: | 15:11 |
| fungi | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/NTBNI7YIDCWBR6BTPEKVZIODWTVUIOXO/ BtG metrics analysis | 15:11 |
| fungi | also could be worthwhile to revisit her previous post in that thread going over the contributor and maintainer survey results (and anyone who hasn't filled those out for epoxy, please see if you can find a few minutes to do that!) | 15:11 |
| fungi | as a follow-up activity, we've started doing some team-specific analyses, focusing on teams that had multiple contributor and maintainer survey responses (did nova and cinder a couple weeks ago, octavia coming up later this week) | 15:12 |
| fungi | we're early in the process of analyzing these stats with a focus on improving the experience for maintainers and contributors, so for now this is probably a lot of stuff you already know, or at least confirming what you expected | 15:12 |
| fungi | a big part of this is establishing a baseline so that we can better gauge whether future attempts at improving have any observable impact, but we aren't at the point where we have much in the way of guidance or recommendations yet | 15:12 |
| fungi | we have plans to continue with this sort of surveying and metrics analysis over coming release cycles; as for the initial results... | 15:12 |
| fungi | the contributor survey had 2 responses for ironic and both respondents had contributed for at least a year and were contributors to at least two other open source projects | 15:12 |
| fungi | most feedback was relatively positive (averaging 3-5 out of 5) with the highest score on "You receive actionable feedback from other reviewers" and lowest "[contributor documentation] It is easy to navigate" | 15:12 |
| fungi | the top challenge reported was trouble with review attention when not already working closely with a maintainer, while additional feedback mentioned it was hard to get involved outside of internship programs | 15:13 |
| fungi | the maintainer survey also had 2 responses with slightly lower scores than the cntributor survey (averaging 3-4) | 15:13 |
| fungi | contributing challenges reported were similar to those from the other survey (review attention) but also disagreements between maintainers delaying changes as well as delays due to testing problems | 15:13 |
| fungi | the top challenges with reviewing were insufficient familiarity with some parts of the code, contributors not fixing their changes or responding to feedback in a timely manner, and ai-generated changes with insufficient explanation | 15:13 |
| fungi | looking at metrics we gathered from gerrit for the past 5 development cycles, we saw review activity was quite good with relatively fast turn-around compared to openstack as a whole (even if not meeting expectations from contributors) | 15:13 |
| fungi | key takeaways seem to be that improving or overhauling the contributor docs could help, as well as diverting more available time to shepherding newer and non-maintainer contributors, perhaps also some attention to test stability | 15:13 |
| fungi | the maintainer disagreements over reviews seem like they might be related to the feeling of lack of familiarity with parts of the codebase, i don't know whether doing some deep-dive presentations on the code could help there | 15:13 |
| fungi | with ironic doing comparatively well both in terms of survey responses and review metrics, i'd like to set aside time at some point soon to get a better understanding of your team-specific workflows to see if any might be portable | 15:14 |
| fungi | sorry, i know that's a pretty big info dump (i tried to pare it down as much as possible), and i'm happy to answer questions or take feedback either here in the meeting or any time after | 15:14 |
| * iurygregory reading | 15:14 | |
| TheJulia | So, regarding codebase layout and knowledge, we tend to treat that as 1-on-1 sessions related to folks interests/challenges, and then try to work with them, but I think it would help us know if people really want/need that level of help. Its one of those things which does sink a bit of time into, and I don't think anyone who is a maintainer would really object, we would just need to find the time and actively be aware of | 15:15 |
| TheJulia | a desire. | 15:15 |
| TheJulia | I suspect, folks are just too afraid to ask?! | 15:15 |
| iurygregory | I think some times people are afraid to ask | 15:16 |
| fungi | yeah, note it was on the maintainer survey that the lack of familiarity with some parts of the codebase was highlighted as something that made it harder for them to review contributions | 15:16 |
| iurygregory | "hard to get involved outside of internship programs"? I'm surprised by this one .-. | 15:17 |
| TheJulia | I guess I'm not really if they are afriad to jump in because it is complex | 15:17 |
| fungi | keep in mind that we had a whopping total of 2 responses to each survey, this is far from statistically significant response, but rather individual experiences reportedc | 15:17 |
| TheJulia | There is likely no one single fix, but some smaller fix we likely need to ponder | 15:17 |
| clif | maybe some encouragement to do reviews even if you're not totally familiar with that part of the codebase? view it as an opportunity to learn about different parts of the code while also hopefully improving incoming code quality | 15:17 |
| TheJulia | hmm | 15:17 |
| TheJulia | so perhaps a lense needs to be applied then | 15:18 |
| fungi | yeah, on other projects i've worked on, reviewing changes to parts i'm unfamiliar with has improved my familiarity | 15:18 |
| clif | also, reviewing doesn't have to result in actionable feedback to the submitter... sometimes there's nothing you have to add | 15:18 |
| TheJulia | The sample size is sort of a skewing aspect. We should likely discuss and ponder how we could be more helpful on the maintainer side | 15:19 |
| rpittau | I guess that's where we all started, building familiarity with reviews, and not viceversa? | 15:19 |
| iurygregory | one thing to note, sometimes people doesn't even know how to reach out via irc .-. | 15:19 |
| TheJulia | Well, we're in this weird shift point in the lifecycle of an OSS proejct | 15:19 |
| TheJulia | now it is much more about tactical contribution | 15:19 |
| fungi | and as i said at the beginning, the best way to get a more statistically significant overview is for more people to take those surveys | 15:19 |
| iurygregory | I received this feedback during OIS Asia last year .-. | 15:19 |
| TheJulia | Perfecte example, alegacy working on networking | 15:20 |
| * TheJulia wonders where that extra e came from | 15:20 | |
| TheJulia | iurygregory: what feedback did you receive at OIS Asia ? | 15:20 |
| dtantsur | on topic of code organization, following the deployment logic through all the modules and obscure functions can deprive anyone of sanity | 15:21 |
| iurygregory | that they would prefer other way to contact us (other than irc..) | 15:21 |
| TheJulia | Yeah, the whole module model is definitely an area folks struggle | 15:21 |
| rpittau | mm I agree with dtantsur | 15:21 |
| iurygregory | newer people probably have a hard time | 15:21 |
| TheJulia | Yeah, IRC | 15:21 |
| iurygregory | ++ agree with dtantsur also | 15:22 |
| TheJulia | I think fungi has given us a bit to think about, would it make sense for us to have a group discussion via a higher bandwidth medium at some point soon to try and figure out some action items, above and beyond "hey, go take this survey" messaging | 15:22 |
| fungi | well, also i don't expect what we've seen so far is terribly enlightning, but it gives us a starting point for future comparisons | 15:23 |
| cid | Indeed | 15:23 |
| cid | I can't relate to the "hard to get involved" without onboarding, which is why I think internships does help. | 15:23 |
| cid | *can :D | 15:23 |
| iurygregory | ++ | 15:24 |
| fungi | anyway, i didn't have anything else to present, so happy to yield the floor if there are no further questions/comments for now | 15:24 |
| iurygregory | I think mentorship (even without internship helps) | 15:25 |
| iurygregory | at least that is how winiciusallan[m] has been contributing from time to time =) | 15:25 |
| cid | ++. | 15:25 |
| fungi | yeah, one of the comments implied that working directly with a maintainer made it easier to get changes merged | 15:26 |
| TheJulia | So, let try to circle back next week and see if we have any idea ? | 15:26 |
| TheJulia | s/idea/ideas/ | 15:26 |
| rpittau | sounds good | 15:26 |
| fungi | thanks for listening! | 15:27 |
| cid | tks, fungi! | 15:27 |
| TheJulia | Thanks fungi! | 15:27 |
| iurygregory | tks fungi ! | 15:27 |
| TheJulia | Onward! | 15:27 |
| TheJulia | #topic Bug Deputy Updates | 15:27 |
| TheJulia | cid: I think you were our deputy last week | 15:27 |
| cid | There two bugs and an RFE | 15:27 |
| cid | At least, I triaged it as an RFE | 15:27 |
| cid | It was from cardoe, I doubt he's around today | 15:27 |
| TheJulia | One of those open bugs I suspect I could just close. Its... likely more a doc issue or a troubleshooting guide issue | 15:28 |
| cardoe | sorry I'm here I just have 3 meetings wide right now. | 15:28 |
| cid | Right... | 15:28 |
| cid | This is it by the way, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/2115471 - Consistent object shape of inventory inspection data | 15:28 |
| TheJulia | I think, at a high level it makes sense | 15:29 |
| TheJulia | I guess the question ends up also being is any of that data sourced via in-band inspection | 15:29 |
| TheJulia | Who volunteers to be the deputy for this week? | 15:31 |
| cid | cardoe, ^^. I would think from in-band inspection | 15:31 |
| cid | TheJulia, I don't mind! | 15:31 |
| TheJulia | cid: okay | 15:31 |
| TheJulia | cardoe: cid: so I mean out of band inspection, data not coming from IPA | 15:31 |
| cardoe | cid: so no the issue is with all data. | 15:32 |
| cardoe | I'm trying to get the in-band (redfish) inspection working. | 15:32 |
| cardoe | But that's generating different data. | 15:32 |
| cardoe | So I'm trying to create some objects to provide some validation (which is what IPA has in tree) | 15:32 |
| cardoe | But it turns out the checks in IPA are bypassed today and it uploads whatever data objects its gotten. | 15:33 |
| TheJulia | Yeah, its always going to create different data unfortunately. | 15:33 |
| cardoe | If you use a different hardware manager, the shape of the data is different | 15:33 |
| TheJulia | yup | 15:33 |
| cardoe | So what I'm aiming to do is define inside of Ironic fields that are "required" | 15:33 |
| cardoe | And if the required fields are missing, treat like the inspection data is missing (which is what by suggestion is on that bug) | 15:34 |
| TheJulia | cardoe: fwiw, I commented on the rfe, indicating general +1, just feels like we need a little bit more clarity/consensus and maybe that is through patches, dunno | 15:34 |
| cardoe | e.g. https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/953414 is something that Haseeb is trying to fix. | 15:34 |
| cardoe | Because it turns out that the name field is required in a few different paths of Ironic | 15:35 |
| TheJulia | cardoe: might be worth while to then make it a bit more verbose since thats not how I'm really reading it, but on some level it may also be just an implementation detail | 15:35 |
| cardoe | You mean write more details on the bug? | 15:35 |
| TheJulia | cardoe: yes | 15:35 |
| cardoe | Can do. | 15:36 |
| TheJulia | Thanks! | 15:36 |
| TheJulia | Onward to open discusion? | 15:36 |
| cardoe | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/2115471 which is what cid linked is just my initial WIP at a model that we can use for validation in the future. | 15:36 |
| TheJulia | alegacy: o/ | 15:37 |
| TheJulia | #topic Open Discussion | 15:37 |
| TheJulia | Does anyone have anything they would like to discuss further? Plot? Scheme? etc. | 15:38 |
| cardoe | Essentially I'm using dataclasses so that you can use something like pyright / mypy to confirm we're messing with fields and you'd just get a warning in your IDE with pyright if you're accessing a field that's not explicitly defined so that should give someone pause to make sure it's good. | 15:39 |
| cardoe | sorry for my poor communication. Trying to listen in on the Neutron BGP call and also on a call providing an update to my leadership chain about my team's work. | 15:40 |
| TheJulia | cardoe: no worries! That is a lot! | 15:41 |
| TheJulia | Well, if there is nothing else, I'll give everyone back at least 15 minutes to plot/scheme and try to take over the world. | 15:42 |
| cid | \o/. | 15:43 |
| * TheJulia wonders if we forgot to make coffee this morning | 15:43 | |
| TheJulia | Thanks everyone! | 15:43 |
| TheJulia | #stopmeeting | 15:43 |
| TheJulia | #endmeeting | 15:43 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Mon Jun 30 15:43:55 2025 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:43 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/ironic/2025/ironic.2025-06-30-15.02.html | 15:43 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/ironic/2025/ironic.2025-06-30-15.02.txt | 15:43 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/ironic/2025/ironic.2025-06-30-15.02.log.html | 15:43 |
| opendevreview | Verification of a change to openstack/ironic master failed: Advanced vmedia deployment test ops https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/898010 | 16:40 |
| *** iurygregory__ is now known as iurygregory | 16:58 | |
| iurygregory | dtantsur, "I wonder if we want >=500 in case someone gets creative", you mean we should also add the >=500 case (since we have conflict 409, bad request 400)? or just consider >= 500 ? | 16:59 |
| priteau | Anyone familiar with this "Ready to submit" state? https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/bifrost/+/948245 | 17:09 |
| iurygregory | this is new to me | 17:09 |
| iurygregory | O.o | 17:09 |
| iurygregory | maybe is waiting for the promote pipeline? | 17:10 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/ironic master: Mark SNMP driver unsupported for removal https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/946843 | 17:43 |
| TheJulia | did it merge? | 17:47 |
| TheJulia | or is it still pending | 17:47 |
| TheJulia | we've seen it once or twice, a rebase typically fies | 17:47 |
| opendevreview | Iury Gregory Melo Ferreira proposed openstack/sushy master: Don't fail to eject vmedia in case there is no vmedia https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/sushy/+/952730 | 17:50 |
| iurygregory_ | TheJulia, "Ironic has responded with a conflict" do you have some details in what scenarios this can happen? | 17:58 |
| TheJulia | I'm not sure what topic youre referring to | 17:59 |
| iurygregory_ | TheJulia, https://opendev.org/openstack/ironic-python-agent/src/branch/master/ironic_python_agent/ironic_api_client.py#L279 | 18:06 |
| iurygregory_ | being honest i never saw this happening in any case, and now we have a customer case D: | 18:07 |
| *** iurygregory_ is now known as iurygregory | 18:07 | |
| opendevreview | Iury Gregory Melo Ferreira proposed openstack/ironic master: Handle unresponsive BMC during Firmware Updates https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/938108 | 18:22 |
| TheJulia | oh, heh | 19:09 |
| TheJulia | okay, so if memory serves it is a conclict when attempts to lock the node in the conductor and it is already locked by another task, either heartbeat or other action. I think the idea is that if its a conflict we just backoff on the next retry a little bit and things should resolve themselves | 19:10 |
| frickler | priteau: for https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/bifrost/+/948245 the "ready to submit" is indeed misleading, it needs a rebase since a newer version of the parent was merged | 19:12 |
| opendevreview | Julia Kreger proposed openstack/ironic master: WIP: Set a threading backend https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/953683 | 21:15 |
| opendevreview | Julia Kreger proposed openstack/ironic master: WIP: Set a threading backend https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/ironic/+/953683 | 23:18 |
| TheJulia | stevebaker[m]: ^^^ | 23:18 |
| TheJulia | its process -> multiprocessing -> Threads, lots of threads | 23:19 |
| TheJulia | so it *seems* to work, at least the other copy on my devstack machine which can't talk to gerrit | 23:19 |
| TheJulia | I'll give it more of a spin tomorrow, but it will be interesting to see | 23:21 |
| TheJulia | most interesting thing is the teardown of the workers, that seemed to hang which makes no sense in that context | 23:24 |
| stevebaker[m] | cool, I'm taking a look | 23:25 |
| TheJulia | I *suspect* we should similarly have a "we're shutting down" event flag to begin to prevent inbound work | 23:34 |
| TheJulia | but the shape of the graceful/drain logic... dunno | 23:35 |
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