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| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Convert to use oslo_config fixture https://review.openstack.org/237347 | 00:22 |
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| jroll | I'm out for the night, have a good one all | 00:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/ironic: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/235644 | 00:49 |
| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/ironic-inspector: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/237290 | 00:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Convert to use oslo_config fixture https://review.openstack.org/237347 | 01:22 |
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| Haomeng | jroll: good night:) | 01:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/bifrost: Add newlines at end of files https://review.openstack.org/237206 | 02:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zhenguo Niu proposed openstack/ironic-specs: Increase tag length to 255 https://review.openstack.org/237386 | 03:53 |
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| jlvillal | zhenguo, Will you be following up on: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/235806/ ? I think that is your patch. | 04:16 |
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| openstackgerrit | Naohiro Tamura proposed openstack/ironic: Add hardware inspection module for iRMC driver https://review.openstack.org/196480 | 04:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | chenglch proposed openstack/ironic: set-console-mode should validate terminal command https://review.openstack.org/235159 | 04:58 |
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| mrda | naohirot: Just on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/enhance-power-interface-for-soft-reboot-and-nmi, is there a spec for this as well? Or just code reviews and a bp? | 05:04 |
| naohirot | mrda: hi | 05:06 |
| naohirot | mrda: spec is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186700/ | 05:07 |
| mrda | thank you naohirot | 05:07 |
| naohirot | mrda: you are welcome. | 05:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Naohiro Tamura proposed openstack/ironic: Fix snmp property descriptions https://review.openstack.org/237395 | 05:08 |
| mrda | naohirot: I have someone from the Nova side interested, and he'd like to see what we're doing | 05:08 |
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| naohirot | mrda: okay | 05:09 |
| naohirot | mrda: any comments are welcome :) | 05:09 |
| zhenguo | jlvillal:yes, sorry for not updating soon :) | 05:11 |
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| openstackgerrit | Syed Ismail Faizan Barmawer proposed openstack/ironic: Refactor disk partitioner code from ironic and use ironic-lib. https://review.openstack.org/184443 | 06:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dingyx proposed openstack/ironic-specs: lenovo driver proposal https://review.openstack.org/208319 | 07:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zhenguo Niu proposed openstack/ironic-specs: Increase tag length to 255 https://review.openstack.org/237386 | 07:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dingyx proposed openstack/ironic-specs: lenovo driver proposal https://review.openstack.org/208319 | 07:05 |
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| dtantsur | Morning Ironic | 07:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | Tan Lin proposed openstack/python-ironicclient: Add a new cmd method node-get-vendor-passthru-methods https://review.openstack.org/237444 | 07:51 |
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| lintan | morning dtantsur | 07:52 |
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| Haomeng | jroll: if you have time, can you take a look for my response of this bp - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/multi-nodes-operations | 07:59 |
| Haomeng | jroll: thanks | 08:00 |
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| yuikotakada | dtantsur, lintan, Haomeng, o/ | 08:01 |
| Haomeng | yuikotakada: morning:) | 08:02 |
| dtantsur | yuikotakada, lintan, o/ | 08:02 |
| lintan | hi yuikotakada, \o/ | 08:09 |
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| lucasagomes | morning all | 08:15 |
| openstackgerrit | Zhenguo Niu proposed openstack/ironic: Move hash_ring refresh logic out of sync_local_state https://review.openstack.org/235806 | 08:17 |
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| zhenguo | morning | 08:18 |
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| Haomeng | lucasagomes: morning lucas:) | 08:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | Anton Arefiev proposed openstack/python-ironicclient: Use requests lib in HTTPClient https://review.openstack.org/229286 | 08:35 |
| yuikotakada | lucasagomes, o/ | 08:36 |
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| dtantsur | hmm, ironic-inspector gate is broken AGAIN?? | 08:49 |
| * dtantsur ragequits | 08:49 | |
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| yuikotakada | dtantsur, seems so | 08:54 |
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| dtantsur | but the ironic-inspector-client job just passed.. wtf? | 08:57 |
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| * dtantsur rechecks stuff again | 08:57 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/ironic: Dummy patch to check gate fix, do not merge https://review.openstack.org/236957 | 09:24 |
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| sambetts | o/ dtantsur, yuikotakada, lucasagomes, lintan, Haomeng | 09:35 |
| dtantsur | morning sambetts | 09:35 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: why is the gate so unstable this week? :( | 09:35 |
| dtantsur | probably to annoy me.. | 09:36 |
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| sambetts | dtantsur: pep8 failed on the sql patch because it could install pep8 from pypi... | 09:37 |
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| dtantsur | so ironic | 09:38 |
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| yuikotakada | sambetts, o/ | 09:42 |
| sambetts | o/ | 09:42 |
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| lucasagomes | quick patch changing the length of the tag column in the tags spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237386/ | 09:48 |
| lucasagomes | needs another +2 :-) | 09:49 |
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| zhenguo | lucasagomes: thanks :) | 09:53 |
| lucasagomes | zhenguo: thank YOU for the code :-) | 09:54 |
| lucasagomes | and spec | 09:54 |
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| zhenguo | lucasagomes: will update soon once the spec approved. | 09:54 |
| lucasagomes | cool, sounds good | 09:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | Anton Arefiev proposed openstack/ironic: Use wsgi from oslo.service for Ironic API https://review.openstack.org/219298 | 10:01 |
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| * zhenguo goes home | 10:03 | |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic: Remove unused functions from agent driver https://review.openstack.org/236920 | 10:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Yuiko Takada proposed openstack/ironic-inspector: Support IPA for devstack-plugin https://review.openstack.org/223563 | 10:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic-inspector: Always default to InnoDB for MySQL https://review.openstack.org/235274 | 10:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Matt Keenan proposed openstack/ironic-specs: Add Solaris IPMItool driver https://review.openstack.org/231536 | 10:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/235644 | 10:53 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/python-ironic-inspector-client: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/237320 | 10:53 |
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| dtantsur | sambetts, I suspect this affects us: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/1508008 | 11:36 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1508008 in Ironic "Request to power off the node may result in it's powering on with SSH driver" [Medium,Triaged] | 11:36 |
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| sambetts | dtantsur: :/ thats a weird state of affairs :/ | 11:38 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: shouldn't the node be in a state in ironic that means it won't attempt to control the nodes power? | 11:41 |
| dtantsur | sorry? ironic usually forces whichever power state is has on it's records | 11:42 |
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| sambetts | dtantsur: but if inspection is happening then the node should be in a state were ironic won't affect it? | 11:43 |
| dtantsur | ironic always affects the state, unless node is in maintenance mode | 11:43 |
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| sambetts | dtantsur: oh then this is something that didn't exist when we ran inspecotor with the node in maintenance mode, but now we're running with enroll or managable then this can happen right? | 11:45 |
| dtantsur | yep | 11:45 |
| sambetts | I wouldn't have expected enroll mode to force power state | 11:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/ironic-inspector: Simplify debugging of issues with nova hypervisor stats https://review.openstack.org/237528 | 11:52 |
| dtantsur | sambetts, oh right, enroll does not. others do | 11:52 |
| openstackgerrit | Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/ironic-inspector: Simplify debugging of issues with nova hypervisor stats https://review.openstack.org/237528 | 11:53 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: I'm wondering if this bug is caused by a race between the inspecotr ramdisk shutting itself down and inspecotr telling it to power off? | 11:53 |
| dtantsur | sambetts, I also suspect it | 11:53 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: could be fixed by stopping the inspecotr ramdisk shutting itself down? | 11:55 |
| dtantsur | sambetts, yes, but that's just a workaround. real people might also hit it | 11:56 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: ? that would fix it for real people too wouldn't it? it means that ironic/inspecotr remains completely in control of the nodes power state | 11:57 |
| dtantsur | sambetts, I mean, it can happen without inspector too, though unlikely... as to inspector, we'll fix it by moving to IPA | 11:59 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: if your using a custom ramdisk that shuts itself down I guess you could, but if the ramdisk shuts down like that without telling ironic that its going to, then there is no way for ironic to know if it meant to have turned off or not | 12:04 |
| openstackgerrit | Matt Keenan proposed openstack/ironic-specs: Add Solaris IPMItool driver https://review.openstack.org/231536 | 12:08 |
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| dtantsur | sambetts, that's not the issue. the issue is that ironic powers on the node, despite a user requesting to power it off | 12:22 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: so the race is between the power sync state loop and the user request? | 12:23 |
| dtantsur | essentially yes | 12:23 |
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| sambetts | hmmm :/ now that sounds like a much more complicated issue | 12:24 |
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| openstackgerrit | Milan Kováčik proposed openstack/ironic-python-agent: determine tgtd ready status through tgtadm https://review.openstack.org/237079 | 12:25 |
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| linggao | Good morning TheJulia | 12:29 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/ironic-inspector: Simplify debugging of issues with nova hypervisor stats https://review.openstack.org/237528 | 12:49 |
| dtantsur | sambetts, this ^^ might fix some problems for us, as cleaning might get in the way | 12:49 |
| dtantsur | sambetts, also plz review backport https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237529/ | 12:49 |
| openstackgerrit | Lilia Sampaio proposed openstack/ironic: Add OneView driver documentation https://review.openstack.org/234396 | 12:52 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: /me looks | 12:52 |
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| dtantsur | ok good, releasing inspector 2.2.2 today | 12:54 |
| dtantsur | trown, ^^ | 12:54 |
| trown | dtantsur: thanks, I will do packaging rebase as soon as it hits pypi | 12:56 |
| liliars | morning all (: | 12:56 |
| dtantsur | morning liliars | 12:59 |
| dtantsur | jroll and others: what would you say about --poll argument for CLI, in particular: $ ironic node-set-provision-state UUID provide --poll | 12:59 |
| dtantsur | making this call wait some time until the state is reached? | 12:59 |
| * dtantsur just wrote yet another wait_for_provision_state function | 13:00 | |
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| jroll | Haomeng: going to update that BP again with every command that should (IMO) allow multiple UUIDs | 13:01 |
| jroll | dtantsur: I'm not opposed, though I wish that wasn't treated as a bash SDK :P | 13:02 |
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| dtantsur | heh, fair | 13:03 |
| dtantsur | and morning jroll | 13:04 |
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| jroll | morning dtantsur :) | 13:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/pyghmi: Handle unicode DCMI data incoming https://review.openstack.org/237195 | 13:11 |
| sambetts | o/ jroll | 13:12 |
| jroll | morning sambetts \o | 13:12 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic-specs: Increase tag length to 255 https://review.openstack.org/237386 | 13:15 |
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| rloo | hi dtantsur, sambetts, jroll | 13:32 |
| dtantsur | hi rloo | 13:32 |
| jroll | hiya rloo :) | 13:33 |
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| * rloo wonders why we have exception.py in both ironic and ironic-lib. sigh. | 13:38 | |
| openstackgerrit | Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/ironic-python-agent: [WIP] Support Linux-IO in addition to tgtd https://review.openstack.org/234861 | 13:38 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/ironic-inspector: Fix random gate breakages due to cleaning https://review.openstack.org/237528 | 13:46 |
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| dtantsur | sambetts, now I'm pretty confident that this ^^ should fix our gate issues | 13:47 |
| sambetts | dtantsur: Awesome :D | 13:48 |
| * dtantsur makes a release | 13:49 | |
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| lucasagomes | jroll: rloo morning :-) | 13:55 |
| rloo | hiya lucasagomes | 13:55 |
| jroll | morning lucasagomes :) | 13:56 |
| NobodyCam | good morning IRonicers | 13:59 |
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| NobodyCam | mornign jroll dtantsur lucasagomes rloo sambetts jlvillal vdrok | 14:03 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 14:03 |
| jroll | hi NobodyCam :) | 14:03 |
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| rloo | hey, morning NobodyCam | 14:04 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 14:04 |
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| jlvillal | Good morning NobodyCam, jroll, rloo, lucasagomes, dtantsur, sambetts liliars and everyone else | 14:05 |
| jroll | hi jlvillal | 14:05 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 14:05 |
| dtantsur | morning NobodyCam, jlvillal | 14:05 |
| rloo | good morning jlvillal | 14:05 |
| jlvillal | :) | 14:05 |
| NobodyCam | morning :) | 14:06 |
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| lucasagomes | NobodyCam: jlvillalhi there! good morning | 14:07 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 14:08 |
| liliars | morning jlvillal :) | 14:10 |
| sambetts | o/ NobodyCam | 14:10 |
| sambetts | o/ jlvillal | 14:10 |
| sambetts | o/ rloo | 14:10 |
| rloo | hi sambetts | 14:11 |
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| NobodyCam | :) | 14:18 |
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| devananda | morning, all | 14:36 |
| jroll | ohai | 14:36 |
| dtantsur | morning devananda | 14:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic-lib: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/237291 | 14:36 |
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| sambetts | o/ devananda | 14:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Milan Kováčik proposed openstack/ironic-python-agent: avoid duplicate text in ISCSIError message https://review.openstack.org/237621 | 15:00 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic-specs: Remove placeholders from being displayed https://review.openstack.org/232136 | 15:02 |
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| dtantsur | ifarkas, hi! could you please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237528/ ? it's fixing random gate failures (hopefully) | 15:07 |
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| ifarkas | dtantsur, sure! | 15:10 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic-python-agent: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/237292 | 15:13 |
| NobodyCam | morning devananda | 15:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic-inspector: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/237290 | 15:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic: Fix snmp property descriptions https://review.openstack.org/237395 | 15:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Milan Kováčik proposed openstack/ironic-python-agent: avoid duplicate text in ISCSIError message https://review.openstack.org/237621 | 15:33 |
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| dtantsur | calling it a day, see you | 15:45 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic: mocking syscalls to make the tests run on OS X https://review.openstack.org/235277 | 15:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Carmelo Ragusa proposed openstack/ironic: Added operator documentation for ironic portgroups https://review.openstack.org/228496 | 15:58 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic-specs: Proxy configuration for agent images downloading https://review.openstack.org/225181 | 16:02 |
| krotscheck | jroll: You have a sec? I'd like to talk to you about your recent post to the mailing list | 16:02 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic-inspector: Fix random gate breakages due to cleaning https://review.openstack.org/237528 | 16:02 |
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| mgould | I'm currently going through http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic/dev/dev-quickstart.html - how do I find out the BMC parameters to set the IPMI_* variables? | 16:08 |
| sambetts | o/ dtantsur|afk | 16:10 |
| linggao | Hi TheJulia, I asked you about the password question for the newly deployed server yesterday. I am using bifrost now and bifrost installation copied a image called deployment_image.qcow2 under /httproot | 16:12 |
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| linggao | TheJulia, do you know the username and the password for that perticular image? | 16:12 |
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| linggao | TheJulia, I know I can ssh to it from the control node. However, we'd like to be able to log in from the console to debug when something is wrong. | 16:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/bifrost: Fix missing ironic_url variable in config drive role https://review.openstack.org/236000 | 16:14 |
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| jroll | krotscheck: I have 15 minutes or so, yeah | 16:16 |
| jroll | krotscheck: I'd probably prefer to keep it to the ML, though, unless there's a good reason to talk here | 16:17 |
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| krotscheck | jroll: I feel that the message you sent, with the "Hey why are we working on two things at the same time", casts doubt on the viability of the webclient, and will drive potential additional contributos away | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | jroll: While I understand the logic behind it, managing a project is as much public relations as it is engineering knowhow. | 16:18 |
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| krotscheck | jroll: And, frankly, this is exactly the problem storyboard had. Infra kept saying "It's not ready", meaning people didn't care to use it, or learn about it, which meant fewer contributors, and eventually the project died. | 16:18 |
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| krotscheck | jroll: With that in mind, are you, as PTL, backing the webclient or not? | 16:19 |
| openstackgerrit | Ruby Loo proposed openstack/ironic-specs: Organize Liberty specs into implemented versions https://review.openstack.org/231695 | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | jroll: Because if you're not, we should kill it. | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | jroll: Especially because I am not interested in working on a thing that has, at best, cursory support. | 16:20 |
| jroll | krotscheck: I don't doubt the viability of it, I'm just wondering why we're working on two paths to the same end goal | 16:20 |
| jroll | krotscheck: "I do love the webclient work; I think it's great." | 16:20 |
| jroll | I just don't understand the reasoning of working on two things to meet one goal | 16:20 |
| krotscheck | jroll: But you yourself don't see why we're duplicating work? | 16:21 |
| jroll | that email wasn't meant to be supportive or unsupportive | 16:21 |
| jroll | krotscheck: no, I don't fully understand why we're duplicating work | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | jroll: I know that's not what it was meant to be. What I'm concerned with how it looks to others. | 16:21 |
| jroll | krotscheck: well, it isn't meant to be the end of the thread. it's a discussion. | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | jroll: The reason there are multiple efforts is because there are organizations in different parts of companies that have different delivery deadlines. | 16:22 |
| jroll | I'm not going to send fluff emails for PR purposes when we're having a real discussion | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | So the reason there's duplication going on is for expediency. | 16:22 |
| jroll | organizational deadlines is not a good reason to duplicate efforts | 16:22 |
| jroll | in openstack, anyway | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | But, as with anything in openstack, once something's built, it's hard to change. | 16:23 |
| jroll | I want upstream to be the best version, not the version that fits into a single company's roadmap | 16:23 |
| krotscheck | So there _will_ be things built against horizon. | 16:23 |
| krotscheck | And those things are out of your control. | 16:23 |
| krotscheck | Because openstack. | 16:23 |
| krotscheck | jroll: we agree on the fact that organizational deadlines are dumb. | 16:24 |
| krotscheck | jroll: But we have to encourage those efforts, because it means that the openstack community remains welcoming | 16:24 |
| krotscheck | jroll: And this will result in duplication of work, because internal teams don't communicate upstream. | 16:25 |
| krotscheck | (Or if they do, rarely) | 16:25 |
| jroll | krotscheck: so really, what I'm seeing we need to do here is two things: 1) decide what our end goal is, and 2) decide the best path to go there | 16:26 |
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| jroll | and I guess 3) make sure that path is beneficial to users | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | jroll: I feel like those have never changed. 1) Two user interfaces, horizon and ironic, with as much shareable code as possible. | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | 2 is under discussion | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | If you ask horizon, their answer is "Why not just use horizon for ironic" | 16:27 |
| jroll | so, the goal is to have a standalone ironic UI thing that can easily plug into horizon, right? | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | To which I _still_ haven't gotten a good response. | 16:27 |
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| jroll | because, presumably, there may be people running ironic standalone that desire a web UI (I agree with this presumption) | 16:28 |
| krotscheck | jroll: Not quite. The use cases are different enough that 100% pluggability will never really work. | 16:28 |
| krotscheck | jroll: But maximal code reuse is something we can do. | 16:29 |
| krotscheck | jroll: But that can all be done in the horizon admin panel. | 16:29 |
| krotscheck | jroll: You'd just have to build a version of horizon that ONLY does ironic. | 16:29 |
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| jroll | krotscheck: right, so in a perfect world, we'd ship angular-horizon.js with all the angular modules we'll need. then ship a minimal frontend thing for those, on its own. and also ship a frontend in ironic that uses that. that makes sense, right? | 16:31 |
| jroll | so horizon is just some ng-controllers, as is the standalone thing. maybe a little logic in between | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | jroll: But horizon is django. And an API proxy. | 16:31 |
| openstackgerrit | Carmelo Ragusa proposed openstack/ironic: Added operator documentation for ironic portgroups https://review.openstack.org/228496 | 16:31 |
| jroll | krotscheck: and even with the angular changeover it will remain that way? | 16:32 |
| jroll | or are panels accepted that will talk directly to APIs from the client? | 16:32 |
| krotscheck | jroll: I believe that's a problem with the DNA in horizon's team composition. Too much familiarity with python. | 16:32 |
| jroll | krotscheck: that is to say you believe it will continue that way? | 16:33 |
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| krotscheck | jroll: Yes. | 16:33 |
| krotscheck | jroll: I have yet to see any communication from the horizon team that gives me faith that they'll be able to make the transition. | 16:33 |
| jroll | ok. | 16:34 |
| jroll | so we'll need to maintain two things forever, yes? | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | And the reason for that is internal teams that have to ship and will never be paid to do a refactor | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | So they'll always opt for doing it the old way because it's understood and it's faster | 16:34 |
| jroll | yeah | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | So while yes, there are panels with angular apps in them... | 16:34 |
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| krotscheck | ...I don't think they're a sign of horizon growing. | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | Or evolving | 16:35 |
| krotscheck | The best option i've been able to come up with is that we ship openstack-js-ironiclib.ng.js, and hope that horizon adopts that. | 16:35 |
| jroll | right | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | But since we don't actually control that project, and the effort to write the ironic panel in horizon is happening _right now_.... | 16:36 |
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| jroll | this is really frustrating without like, a user survey or something | 16:36 |
| david-lyle | so I've been following along here because I get pinged on horizon :) | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | I was waiting for you to pipe up :) | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | I would suggest that any horizon content you have goes into a plugin | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | you control the maximum reuse then and how it integrates | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | Horizon is having issues with Angular internally for sure | 16:37 |
| david-lyle | because we're trying to figure out who is benefiting most from a conversion | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | betherly: ^^ | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | at this point no one | 16:38 |
| jroll | so I need to step away in about 2 minutes | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: I have some internal marching orders to make OpenStack more composable. | 16:38 |
| david-lyle | harder for ops and the ux is not notably improved | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: harder for ops? | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: how so? | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | people deploying openstack have python devs, not so many javascript devs | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | so adding custom content and supporting legacy custom content in a javascript world is more difficult | 16:39 |
| david-lyle | hence the hesitation to move completely over | 16:39 |
| jroll | krotscheck: can you summarize this discussion in a reply on the list | 16:40 |
| jroll | ? | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | jroll: I'll see what I can do. | 16:40 |
| david-lyle | we basically disenfranchise all exist deployments | 16:40 |
| jroll | krotscheck: I need to think about it more | 16:40 |
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| david-lyle | I fully understand the desire for standalone | 16:40 |
| jroll | krotscheck: I'm also eager to hear if you think something like ironic-webclient should be built for other projects | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: At the same time you're disenfranchising UX people though. I know we at HP have a bunch of javascript types that are frustrated beyond measure. | 16:41 |
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| david-lyle | krotscheck: I think a lot of that onus falls on them | 16:41 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: I would argue that you're suffering from polling bias. | 16:41 |
| jroll | I gotta run, thanks in advance for your email krotscheck :) | 16:42 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: And that one of the reasons you're not seeing angular devs is because they're being told they're not allowed to do their thing. | 16:42 |
| david-lyle | I would argue forward migrations that have no migration path are terrible | 16:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Stephanie Miller proposed openstack/bifrost: ironic-inspector install doc polish https://review.openstack.org/234810 | 16:42 |
| betherly | Im here btw since you pinged me - thanks krotscheck | 16:42 |
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| david-lyle | krotscheck: new content should be external, and angular is fine for that | 16:43 |
| david-lyle | by external I mean plugin | 16:43 |
| lucasagomes | mgould, ironic driver-properties <driver name> may help you there | 16:43 |
| david-lyle | and if they want to support CORS for that then they can | 16:43 |
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| krotscheck | david-lyle: I believe that you have no forward migration plan at all. | 16:43 |
| krotscheck | or rather, no plan to actually improve things. | 16:43 |
| david-lyle | just use the django app to serve the initial page | 16:44 |
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| david-lyle | krotscheck: we'd have to mark the django side as deprecated for two full release cycles | 16:45 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: So start now? | 16:45 |
| david-lyle | and rewrite all content in a year? | 16:46 |
| david-lyle | for the end goal of having it rewritten? | 16:46 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: Ok, let me clarify | 16:46 |
| david-lyle | my issue is not with rewriting, it's with just copying the same content in a new language | 16:46 |
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| david-lyle | there is little to no benefit and all stability goes away | 16:46 |
| david-lyle | a rewrite should improve on the current, that would be the point | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: If you're going to continue to not change things because you don't see a clear benefit right now, then you'll never change. If you put this on the roadmap, and actively push people to work on it, then you'll see progress. | 16:47 |
| betherly | agree with that david-lyle - but in rewriting there would need to be general improvement to the total product | 16:47 |
| david-lyle | I have people rewriting content, that don't understand the content and repeating the same UX problems already there, and making it harder to maintain | 16:48 |
| betherly | i dont see it as a possibility for something to be written without that in itself causing improvement | 16:48 |
| krotscheck | And, frankly, I do see improvement on the current. For example, horizon right now downloads the same javascript every single time a page loads, which, from what I gather, is about 1.5 megabytes | 16:48 |
| betherly | taking the initiative to make change will bring up existing issues that can be addressed in the overhaul | 16:48 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: So you're scared of changing the status quo. | 16:48 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: Because there's tacit understanding built into pieces of the user interface that nobody remembers anymore. | 16:48 |
| david-lyle | no, it's openstack | 16:49 |
| david-lyle | you have to understand openstack | 16:49 |
| david-lyle | I'm not scared of change, I drove the initiative, but it's been coopted into a classroom exercise of duplication | 16:50 |
| david-lyle | I don't see the value to force a migration on all deployers because we have a new language to chase | 16:50 |
| betherly | maybe it needs something more fresh then to drive the fact that it is _not_ about duplication | 16:50 |
| betherly | because i totally agree with that point david-lyle | 16:50 |
| david-lyle | I'm not sure you comprehend how much custom content is out there | 16:50 |
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| krotscheck | So, wait a sec. | 16:51 |
| david-lyle | I wanted angular to use in areas where we could improve usability | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | You're saying you can't change things because someone downstream, who may not even be contributing anymore, may have their things break? | 16:51 |
| david-lyle | betherly: it seems to be a hard point to make | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | Seems to me that breaking things for downstream is an excellent motivator to keep those people engaged. | 16:52 |
| david-lyle | krotscheck: Horizon is an extensible framework that your openstack UI is built with, it is fully expected that you will have custom content | 16:52 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: I'm sorry, but from the survey I did before vancouver, it turns out that at least 50% of your users are maintaining their own fork. If horizon is really an "extensible framework", but half your users have forked it, you've failed. | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | In fact, many of the respondents have built their own UI because horizon flat out failed to be extensible enough. | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | I disagree, most of those forks are ancient before the plugin mechanism was in place, but the old method was to write a custom django app to sit on top of horizon | 16:54 |
| krotscheck | I'd be happy to get more recent data. | 16:54 |
| david-lyle | and you think the angular put up to horizon is extensible? it's not even consistent | 16:55 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: Oh good lord no. I've seen some of those patches. | 16:55 |
| david-lyle | krotscheck: most of those forks are due to laziness IMO | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | s/laziness/time limitations/ | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | I think people want to push the requisite changes, but it takes a lot of time | 16:56 |
| david-lyle | and organizational improvement | 16:56 |
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| david-lyle | can't type | 16:57 |
| david-lyle | s/improvement/approval/ | 16:57 |
| david-lyle | so companies forked and can't get back upstream | 16:57 |
| david-lyle | short term optimization for long term pain | 16:58 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: Hrm, the data doesn't seem to support that hypothesis. Most of the respondents (around L) were J or K. | 16:58 |
| mordred | TheJulia: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195662/8/specs/mitaka/approved/virt-device-role-tagging.rst,cm | 17:00 |
| mordred | other people too | 17:00 |
| mordred | devananda: ^^ | 17:00 |
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| mordred | it's another spec of getting metadata about things from nova to guests - which is likely helpful in biffrost | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | Let me get better data | 17:00 |
| mordred | SpamapS, greghaynes: ^^ might also be useful (or not) for infra-cloud | 17:01 |
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| david-lyle | krotscheck: quite honestly, I think the UI needs to be rethought at a more fundamental scale, but I spend most of my time trying to maintain it | 17:05 |
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| krotscheck | david-lyle: Ok. So maybe we shift the conversation from complaining to coming up with a constructive path forward? | 17:06 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: My personal hope is that all code that doesn't touch the actual HTML can be pulled out of horizon into its own libraries. | 17:06 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: A bunch of that has already happened, given that horizon uses the pythonclients | 17:07 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: Personally, I'd like to see even those go away, since they're not consistent. I feel with the javascript ecosystem, we have an opportunity to - because it's new - inform our design decisions based on what's gone before. | 17:08 |
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| lucasagomes | folks going to call it a day, see y'all later | 17:08 |
| david-lyle | krotscheck: just a lot of work to do it | 17:09 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle: I'd love some help :) | 17:09 |
| david-lyle | fortunately, things like that which would live in a separate tree can make progress without horizon standing in the way | 17:10 |
| david-lyle | when we're swapping the tires while the vehicle is in motion, the bar gets higher | 17:10 |
| david-lyle | and more frustrating | 17:10 |
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| NobodyCam | morning mordred :) | 17:10 |
| sambetts | o/ lucas-afk | 17:11 |
| NobodyCam | mornign krotscheck sambetts | 17:11 |
| krotscheck | So, is there any way you can redirect some of the horizon community to help me out? | 17:11 |
| NobodyCam | mornign david-lyle | 17:11 |
| NobodyCam | night lucas-afk | 17:11 |
| sambetts | hey NobodyCam | 17:11 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 17:11 |
| robcresswell | krotscheck: What's your opinion on the feature branching idea, for building some consistent panels? Speeds things up or gets in the way more? | 17:11 |
| robcresswell | Just curious about your viewpoint on it. | 17:11 |
| krotscheck | robcresswell: I haven't been involved in the discussion to really be able to comment? | 17:12 |
| robcresswell | krotscheck: Fair enough | 17:12 |
| david-lyle | robcresswell: I think that's an isolated conversation | 17:12 |
| krotscheck | robcresswell: I suspect that the bigger issue there is going to be organizational. As in. which downstream contributor is going to fund that effort above and beyond their own UI needs? | 17:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic: Enable cmd/api & cmd/conductor to be launched directly https://review.openstack.org/236152 | 17:13 |
| * david-lyle notes were still in the ironic room, should say something ironically focused | 17:13 | |
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| NobodyCam | :) | 17:13 |
| robcresswell | Sure, sorry for hijacking the conversation; just saw it mentioned in the ironic mailer and wondered if there were any strong opinions on it. | 17:14 |
| krotscheck | I can do that! | 17:14 |
| * robcresswell retreats to Horizon cave | 17:14 | |
| sambetts | hey david-lyle long time no see :) | 17:14 |
| david-lyle | sambetts: now I know where you've been hiding :) | 17:14 |
| mordred | robcresswell: generally speaking I think that feature branches in openstack's workflow should be used sparingly and with great caution | 17:15 |
| krotscheck | david-lyle, robcresswell: I'm a few patches away from splitting two javascript libraries off of the ironic-webclient, which for now I'm tentatively naming "openstack-js-ironiclib" and "openstack-js-corelib" | 17:15 |
| david-lyle | I think ironic content for Horizon should be developed not in the horizon tree, which it seems like it is | 17:15 |
| krotscheck | Right now, I have npm publishing working, which'll be enabled on both those. | 17:15 |
| krotscheck | I will hopefully get bower publishing working as well. | 17:16 |
| david-lyle | if there is an adapter layer that plugs into horizon somewhere, that would be phenomenal | 17:16 |
| mordred | robcresswell: they're VERY heavy constructs, and they take a lot of work and care to deal with | 17:16 |
| krotscheck | But, how can I make it easy for those two libraries to be consumed by horizon? Would it make sense to teach infra how to convert a JS project into an xstatic pypi artifact? | 17:16 |
| * krotscheck dislikes xstatic. | 17:17 | |
| * krotscheck realizes that it may still be necessary | 17:17 | |
| robcresswell | mordred: Trying to negotiate between moving Horizon to JS-based UI piece by piece, vs. "make a new UI", which IMO seems more drastic. | 17:17 |
| david-lyle | krotscheck: everyone dislike xstatic | 17:17 |
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| david-lyle | but we're where we are | 17:17 |
| robcresswell | krotscheck: We all do, but it seems like it's the least evil option. | 17:18 |
| mordred | robcresswell: totally | 17:18 |
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| robcresswell | mordred: Currently I'd like us to maintain one community, and move bit by bit, as it also allows us to deprecate and provide a sort-of-upgrade-path. | 17:18 |
| krotscheck | The other ironic-based question is: Does the following way of configuring the API endpoints for <service> make sense in a way that horizon could use? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229055/ | 17:19 |
| mordred | robcresswell: I TOTALLY agree | 17:19 |
| * robcresswell should probably stop taking over ironic channel for this discussion :) | 17:19 | |
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| krotscheck | robcresswell: We've been talking about moving the community bit-by-bit since I joined openstack 2 years ago. | 17:20 |
| david-lyle | krotscheck: I think that's a problem across openstack, not just horizon | 17:21 |
| david-lyle | we're either stable or agile, tough to do both | 17:22 |
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| david-lyle | at least excel at both concurrently | 17:22 |
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| krotscheck | david-lyle, robcresswell: Ok, so, to answer my first question: Should I see if publishing an xstatic package is possible? | 17:22 |
| * david-lyle ok to horizon | 17:22 | |
| david-lyle | thanks ironic for letting us monopolize for a bit | 17:23 |
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| robcresswell | krotscheck: I replied, but in the Horizon channel btw, so I don't continue to fill up your logs with Horizon chatter :) | 17:23 |
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| sambetts | cya david-lyle, robcresswell, krotscheck | 17:25 |
| sambetts | actually o/ everyone I'm off for the night | 17:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Jarrod Johnson proposed openstack/pyghmi: Fix chunk length when unicode on MCI https://review.openstack.org/237705 | 17:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/pyghmi: Fix chunk length when unicode on MCI https://review.openstack.org/237705 | 17:41 |
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| TheJulia | mordred: Interesting, thank you! | 17:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Convert to use oslo_config fixture https://review.openstack.org/237347 | 17:53 |
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| openstackgerrit | Lilia Sampaio proposed openstack/ironic: Add OneView driver documentation https://review.openstack.org/234396 | 17:59 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dmitry Tantsur proposed openstack/ironic-inspector: Support IPA for devstack-plugin https://review.openstack.org/223563 | 19:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ironic: Add OneView driver documentation https://review.openstack.org/234396 | 19:24 |
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| jroll | ^^ \o/ | 19:26 |
| * jroll marks that BP implemented | 19:27 | |
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| sinval | \o/ | 19:33 |
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| rloo | jroll: oh. what are you going to do with the oneview spec. move it to a mitaka-implemented directory? Noooooo... | 19:39 |
| jroll | rloo: I'm going to hold off til I see what happens with the shuffling patch, at least | 19:39 |
| jroll | probably just move things after 4.3 release | 19:39 |
| rloo | jroll: I still think we should just have an 'all-specs' directory. put all approved specs there. and link to those. | 19:40 |
| jroll | rloo: possibly yeah | 19:40 |
| jroll | I haven't thought much about it recently | 19:41 |
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| rloo | jroll: me neither. i thought about it for a few minutes once and that's what i concluded :) | 19:41 |
| * jroll goes off to eat lunch before thinking about that | 19:41 | |
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| liliars | whoop! \o/ thanks guys (: | 20:01 |
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| mrda | Morning | 20:07 |
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| liliars | morning mrda | 20:10 |
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| mrda | morning liliars | 20:15 |
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| jlvillal | mrda: Morning | 20:33 |
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| mrda | hey jlvillal | 20:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Move ironic.tests.unit.base to ironic.tests.base https://review.openstack.org/237773 | 20:48 |
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| rloo | jroll: wrt mitaka etherpads for design sessions, could people start populating them with eg links to specs, descriptions? I'm worried we're going to blah blah and not get much concrete done if there's no focus. | 20:52 |
| jroll | rloo: yeah, I've been meaning to add some notes on each one | 20:52 |
| rloo | jroll: thx. i've gone through 3 specs that are related. not sure which other ones to look at. | 20:53 |
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| jroll | rloo: the ideas etherpad still has the notes on each session | 20:53 |
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| rloo | jroll: that reminds me. a few weeks ago we talked about moving node.properties & capabilities to separate tables. did you open BPs for them? | 20:54 |
| rloo | jroll: thx, am looking | 20:54 |
| jroll | rloo: yeah, it's part of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/204641/ | 20:54 |
| jroll | rloo: also relevant https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-db-properties | 20:54 |
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| rloo | jroll: where did that etherpad come from? doesn't look familiar to me. | 20:55 |
| jroll | rloo: deva and I started notes on the properties move | 20:55 |
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| rloo | jroll: good stuff. i mean without reading it, but it looks good :D | 20:56 |
| jroll | hah | 20:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Move files common to both unit & functional testing https://review.openstack.org/237773 | 21:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Convert to use oslo_config fixture https://review.openstack.org/237347 | 21:58 |
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| * devananda returns from 6 hours of non-stop meetings | 22:27 | |
| jlvillal | devananda: Ugh. I hate days like that... | 22:27 |
| mrda | hey jroll, you about? | 22:28 |
| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Convert to use oslo_config fixture https://review.openstack.org/237347 | 22:28 |
| jroll | mrda: hiya | 22:28 |
| mrda | jroll: so first, good afternoon/evening :) | 22:28 |
| jroll | and good morning to you! | 22:29 |
| jroll | :) | 22:29 |
| mrda | jroll: and secondly, and progress on the spec needed to unblock https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1485068 ? | 22:29 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1485068 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Nova does not support baremetal vnic" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Sukhdev Kapur (sukhdev-8) | 22:29 |
| jroll | oh, I wrote a thing | 22:29 |
| jroll | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237067/ | 22:29 |
| * mrda appreciates jroll's friendliness even to those in the Antipodes | 22:29 | |
| * mrda looks | 22:29 | |
| jroll | lol | 22:29 |
| mrda | oh cool | 22:30 |
| mrda | teh awesome! | 22:30 |
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| mrda | I will update the code revew/spec for this | 22:30 |
| mrda | thanks! | 22:30 |
| jroll | thanks! | 22:30 |
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| * jlvillal looks up antipodes... | 22:30 | |
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| mrda | So we should probably re-roll https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213264/3 with a link to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237067 so the code can be unblocked | 22:31 |
| jlvillal | mrda: jroll: Does that make the Nova bug happy? That spec? | 22:32 |
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| sc68cal | there's a lot of stuff flying around in nova-specs around VIF plugging | 22:32 |
| jroll | mrda: yeah, we can just update the commit message with Implements: blueprint ironic-networks-support | 22:32 |
| sc68cal | off the top of my head - https://review.openstack.org/193668 and https://review.openstack.org/190917 | 22:33 |
| jroll | jlvillal: mrda: it won't unblock the code because the spec isn't merged, but ya know | 22:33 |
| mrda | jroll: I can do a thing if it will help | 22:33 |
| * jroll supports closing the bug as WONTFIX or something pointing at the spec | 22:33 | |
| jroll | mrda: I'll grab it, I've been meaning to :) | 22:33 |
| mrda | np, thanks jroll | 22:33 |
| * mrda goes back to triaging nova ironic bugs | 22:33 | |
| * jlvillal joins mrda... | 22:34 | |
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| jlvillal | jroll: When you said you were going to 'grab it' was 'it' the bug or the patch? | 22:36 |
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| jroll | jlvillal: I added the BP to the patch, and closed the bug with a pointer to the BP | 22:36 |
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| jlvillal | jroll: Thanks! | 22:36 |
| jroll | np | 22:36 |
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| NobodyCam | gah several hours trip to get yen :-p | 22:52 |
| NobodyCam | but we now have 48K worth of yen | 22:52 |
| jlvillal | NobodyCam: I'm going to be brave and use the ATM at the airport. | 22:56 |
| jlvillal | I'll see if I have a massive fail or not ;) | 22:56 |
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| mrda | jlvillal: you may need yen for the train/bus to your hotel | 22:57 |
| jlvillal | jroll: NobodyCam: Did the date for the Ironic dinner ever get nailed down? | 22:57 |
| jlvillal | mrda: I was hoping to buy the ticket with my credit card. I watched the video on how to get to the summit. | 22:57 |
| mrda | Good luck! If that doesn't work I'll be coming thru on Monday night, and I'm happy to lend you some Yen :) | 22:58 |
| jlvillal | mrda: I'll sleep in the airport until then ;) | 22:58 |
| jlvillal | mrda: Did you see the Youtube video on getting to the Summit? | 22:58 |
| mrda | yes | 22:59 |
| mrda | I'm also travelling with a unch of people, and I've been thru NRT before | 22:59 |
| mrda | s/unch/bunch/ | 22:59 |
| jlvillal | mrda: Rumor has it to find the nearest 7-11 to use an ATM. | 23:00 |
| jlvillal | I guess many ATMs don't accept foreign cards but the 7-11 ATMs do. | 23:00 |
| mrda | yep | 23:00 |
| mrda | AMEX is harder to find support, Visa and MC easier | 23:01 |
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| * devananda boards a flight home | 23:35 | |
| devananda | see ya'll tomorrow! | 23:35 |
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| Sukhdev | hello | 23:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | James Penick proposed openstack/ironic-specs: No IPA to conductor communication https://review.openstack.org/212206 | 23:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Convert to use oslo_config fixture https://review.openstack.org/237347 | 23:59 |
| openstackgerrit | John L. Villalovos proposed openstack/ironic: Move files common to both unit & functional testing https://review.openstack.org/237773 | 23:59 |
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