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| ianychoi | aeng, pahuang : Oh it is >6pm but are you online now? I am in PTG and I will discuss Zanata upgrade things soon with Infra team - clarkb. Do you have some issues to be discussed with infra team? | 08:16 |
|---|---|---|
| ianychoi | Note that I have tested all things and now it seems that all are working well (although glossary needs to be manually deleted and re-imported): https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/i18n-zanata-test-for-translate-dev | 08:17 |
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| ianychoi | rsimai, hello! Can I talk with you now? | 08:37 |
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| rsimai | ianychoi: sorry for the late ping back, meetings ... | 09:42 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, fine :) | 09:42 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: still on call but can type | 09:42 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, I see. :) I just wanted to talk with you for some discussion on your mentioning on glossary order: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-i18n/2017-February/002768.html | 09:43 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: thanks for looking into it. Do we have an issue? | 09:43 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, yep first of all Sphinx does not support re-ordering of TOCs... | 09:44 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, I have discussed this thing with katomo via offline | 09:44 |
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| rsimai | ianychoi: and is there any solution? I think it's nice to have proper tranlations but a not sorted glossary is not user friendly :-) | 09:47 |
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| rsimai | ianychoi: ... and I wonder if the German team is the only one that's translating some of the terms and hits the problem... | 09:52 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, IMO.. those seem to be less problems than German and French (at least) - because German and French mainly uses Latin characters | 09:54 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, on the other hand, Korea, Japan, and China use non-latin characters - it would mean that local readers might easily acknowledge that the original glossary is based on latin-alphabet order | 09:55 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: do they also translate the original (latin) terms or do they leave them untouched and just translate the explanations? | 09:56 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, however, after seeing your article on the mailing list, I think yep - the local people who are in latin-character culture (not only 26 alphabets but also other latin characters) might be confused | 09:56 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, so one simple and possible option might be to include both origianal and translated terms just for glossary when translating to Zanata | 09:57 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: you mean to keep the original term, in brackets or so? | 09:58 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: I though about it, but it's still confusing. Probably less than without... | 09:59 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, yes - since there is no programmable alternative approach currently.. unfortunately.. to re-order in TOC | 09:59 |
| ianychoi | How about like "[original term] ([translated term])" rsimai ? | 10:00 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: well, yes. I guess I'll briefly discuss with the German team and we finally document this within our dictionary. | 10:01 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: I understand a technical solution is not preferred this time | 10:02 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: but I still wonder how's that for you and others, who don't use (the original) latin sort order | 10:03 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, yep For Korean, I usually say keeping with English terms for glossary would be a good idea - but I need to more discuss with ujuc - Korean coordinaror | 10:08 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, for Japanese, https://docs.openstack.org/newton/ja/install-guide-ubuntu/common/glossary.html | 10:08 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, many japanese terms are shown also with English | 10:09 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: I see, thanks for the link. They actually have a much bigger confusion because of the different characters. I think I should be happy :-) | 10:11 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, yep but Japanese people use 3 types of characters and the most Japanese characters in the link is Katakana - which is just mainly used for reading English words | 10:12 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, It means that.. Japanese people easily figure out 'A', 'B' or 'C" after reading Katakana | 10:13 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: I understand. A different question. We're working on Master but currently publish Newton. Is there a script to merge what's in Master into Newton and to re-publish the guide? | 10:13 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, the policy of openstack-manuals team for landing page is to use only master branch | 10:18 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, for example, Japanese team landing page has links to prev. releases: https://docs.openstack.org/ja/ | 10:19 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, script side means how to build branched documents ? | 10:21 |
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| rsimai | ianychoi: when I look at openstack-manuals I see we've completed 15% of the "common" file but in Master it's 56%. E.g. the glossary of what we hav published in the Newton install-guide comes out of that. | 10:37 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: I wonder how the strings will be fed back from master to e.g. Newton. We could do this manually in Zanata but there must be a better way | 10:40 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, oh really? in German, common in master is 56% and common in newton is 15%? | 10:40 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: yes, that's what I see | 10:40 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, for this thing, I can execute translation merge functionality | 10:40 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, it needs my manual execution - merging is usually nice but sometimes it needs to be managed carefully | 10:41 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, one problem in merge execution is that merge execution applies to all the manuals | 10:41 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: it's not 100% and it will take some time but since we've published the guide and substantial parts are missing I guess it makes sense | 10:42 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, this is why I am worried about but if we need such merging execution then I can execute it | 10:42 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, +1 for your approach - for common, considering master now is a good idea | 10:42 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: if it's tricky, then hold on for a while. But we've massively improved that guide, yet nobody benefits from it | 10:43 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, however, I am not pretty sure whether always backporting from master to prev. releases is a good idea or not | 10:43 |
| rsimai | the majority of strings appears to be identical. You'll see this in Zanata as there are suggestions with 100% match | 10:44 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, I18n team usually says to other teams (openstack-manuals, horizon, and so on) that backporting of strings might cause too much changes for translation | 10:44 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, I see. Just note that Ocata documentation will be released soon then I think we can publish much faster for German Ocata install-guide with much improved glossary | 10:45 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: I trust you know this better, just wanted to ask | 10:46 |
| ianychoi | rsimai, you already knew a lot :) And your feedback is so important - different language teams may have different cultural backgrounds. Sometimes I do not notice this thing.. | 10:48 |
| ianychoi | One difficulity in I18n PTL is that it is relatively not easy to understand all different culture from all of countries. For example, I did not notice a few weeks ago that Chinese team had a long vacation for Chinese new-year during Soft & Hard StringFreeze period | 10:50 |
| ianychoi | But I am trying to more understand and feedback from language coordinators is so valuable :) | 10:50 |
| ianychoi | And I belive that more conversation and communication will result to more qualified translation result to more countries | 10:52 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: you probably have a more challenging job than those who can focus "just" on technology, which is the same anywhere in the world | 11:09 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: you indeed have to deal with languages and therefore cultures to a wider degree. | 11:09 |
| rsimai | ianychoi: however, don't give up, you're doing great! :-) | 11:10 |
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| ianychoi | rsimai, thanks a lot :) Your encouraging and feedback are so nice + I really appreciate your dealing with German language team. Have a good afternoon and feel free to ping me anytime (although sometimes my response would be late but I will track after seeing them)! | 12:58 |
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| robcresswell | amotoki: I have your pen :) | 15:31 |
| amotoki | robcresswell: I heard it yesterday. thanks for taking care of it. | 15:32 |
| amotoki | robcresswell: where are you today? | 15:32 |
| robcresswell | amotoki: In the Ironic room (same as Horizon) | 15:34 |
| robcresswell | amotoki: Ill be at the horizon/i18n meeting tomorrow afternoon | 15:34 |
| amotoki | robcresswell: I am in the neutron room next to ironic. will go there soon | 15:41 |
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| ianychoi | amotoki, Hope that you will come to tomorrow horizon/i18n session without conflicting with other schedules (today morning, I ate breakfast with katomo and we were worried about such worse conflicts) | 16:43 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: Thurday afternoon schedule is tentative to me. neutron is the first priority to me as neutron drivers. | 16:45 |
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| amotoki | ianychoi: I hope i can join but not sure at the moment. I think you and katomo can do well :) | 16:46 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, yep I totally understand your situation. I will try to share discussion topics before the meeting to listen to your opinions as much as possible | 16:46 |
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| ianychoi | amotoki, haha thanks a lot for saying such. However, me is not perfect - sometimes I might not notice some more important topics..:) | 16:47 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: :) | 16:48 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: the horizon-i18n session wil be held at 3-4pm, right? | 16:49 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, yep 3-4pm tomorrow | 16:49 |
| amotoki | ianychoi: thanks, will take care of the time as best | 16:49 |
| ianychoi | amotoki, thanks a lot! | 16:49 |
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| ianychoi | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/i18n-ptg-pike-topics | 21:41 |
| jpich | blergh the session that includes the release model issues clashes with the tripleo-ui session. Looking forward to reading the notes | 21:50 |
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| ianychoi | jpich, hi would 3-4 pm tomorrow will have some conflict with you? | 22:43 |
| ianychoi | jpich, yep Wed-Fri are mainly for Verticall discussions T.T | 22:44 |
| jpich | ianychoi: Yes, it's the only session specifically for TripleO UI in the tripleo schedule -> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tripleo-ptg-pike | 22:44 |
| jpich | Probably the release management people will have good input on cycle-trailing etc :) | 22:45 |
| ianychoi | jpich, oh so sorry about that. Would it be possible to change tripleo-ui time to other topic time in tripleo discussion? | 22:45 |
| ianychoi | jpich, or would it be better for me to say such thing with tripleo PTL? | 22:46 |
| jpich | ianychoi: I think jtomasek is the main person impacted (core tripleo-ui developer) as he leads the talk so I'm not sure. I don't want to cause issues with either room | 22:47 |
| ianychoi | jpich, thanks a lot for your saying. I just thought that a kind of announcement from Rob like http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/112772.html would be fine. I will discuss with robcresswell. Thanks! | 22:50 |
| jpich | ianychoi: Yes, the focus is Horizon, I'm just curious about the release models part | 22:50 |
| jpich | Maybe we can catch up after the session :) | 22:50 |
| ianychoi | jpich, sure but unfortunately I am now organizing one more discussion on 4:00-4:30 pm with OpenStackAnsible and Infra team. Maybe we can discuss during Feedback session or some timeframe on Friday. I will stay by Friday :) | 22:52 |
| jpich | ianychoi: I am around Friday too, flying in the evening. I'm sure we will manage to talk :) Good job on organising all the important sessions for the i18n team!! | 22:53 |
| ianychoi | jpich, it's my great pleasure and I think you are also participating a lot in TripleO! :) | 22:54 |
| jpich | Mostly trying to keep up for now... hopefully it will be easier during the tripleo-ui session!! | 22:54 |
| jpich | ianychoi: Have a good evening :) | 22:55 |
| ianychoi | Haha yep! jpich you too :) See you soon! | 22:55 |
| jpich | :) | 22:55 |
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| openstackgerrit | KATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/i18n master: Cleanup I18n Guide https://review.openstack.org/437184 | 23:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | KATO Tomoyuki proposed openstack/i18n master: Make description for ATC accurate https://review.openstack.org/437188 | 23:19 |
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