Thursday, 2015-09-03

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openstackgerritMerged openstack/glance_store:  Release notes 0.9.0 and corrected library version  https://review.openstack.org/21988600:20
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openstackgerritTeruaki Ishizaki proposed openstack/glance_store: Sheepdog: improve operations for storing glance-image  https://review.openstack.org/20594202:06
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openstackgerritWayne Okuma proposed openstack/glance: Glance metadef tables need unique constraints.  https://review.openstack.org/19582005:32
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openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Consider `--os-token` when using v2  https://review.openstack.org/21968606:34
openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Check if v2 is available and fallback  https://review.openstack.org/21946906:34
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openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Consider `--os-token` when using v2  https://review.openstack.org/21968607:58
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openstackgerritNiall Bunting proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: image-list backwards compatibility for v2  https://review.openstack.org/21980209:37
openstackgerritTakashi NATSUME proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Add a condition to avoid mistaking the version string  https://review.openstack.org/21812609:42
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openstackgerritNiall Bunting proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: image-list backwards compatibility for v2  https://review.openstack.org/21980210:17
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openstackgerritNiall Bunting proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: image-list backwards compatibility for v2  https://review.openstack.org/21980210:37
openstackgerritKairat Kushaev proposed openstack/glance: Check value format when uploading blob value  https://review.openstack.org/21926210:37
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openstackgerritNiall Bunting proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: image-list backwards compatibility for v2  https://review.openstack.org/21980210:52
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openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Consider `--os-token` when using v2  https://review.openstack.org/21968611:35
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/glance: Add image signing verification  https://review.openstack.org/18313711:39
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openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Don't make `help` require auth parameters  https://review.openstack.org/22009611:54
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openstackgerritTakashi NATSUME proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Add a condition to avoid mistaking the version string  https://review.openstack.org/21812612:19
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openstackgerritNiall Bunting proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Move metadef into sub-commands  https://review.openstack.org/21886412:23
openstackgerritTakashi NATSUME proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Add a condition to avoid mistaking the version string  https://review.openstack.org/21812612:27
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openstackgerritKairat Kushaev proposed openstack/glance: Check value format when uploading blob value  https://review.openstack.org/21926212:33
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openstackgerritNiall Bunting proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: image-list backwards compatibility for v2  https://review.openstack.org/21980212:56
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openstackgerritStuart McLaren proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Add a condition to avoid mistaking the version string  https://review.openstack.org/21812613:09
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dhellmannglance-store 0.9.0 is tagged13:39
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jokke_thanks dhellmann!13:52
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nikhil_kCourtesy meeting reminder: ativelkov, cpallares, esheffield, flaper87, flwang1, hemanthm, ivasilevskaya, jokke_, kragniz, lakshmiS, mclaren, mfedosin, nikhil_k, Nikolay_St, Olena, pennerc, rosmaita, sigmavirus24, sabari, TravT, zhiyan, pkoniszewski, krykowski, ajayaa, GB21, bpoulos, harshs, abhishekk, bunting, dshakhray14:00
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openstackgerritBrian Rosmaita proposed openstack/glance: Add tasks info to glance documentation  https://review.openstack.org/22016614:30
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h0merwhat is the best way to export images out of glance and onto my local machine?14:55
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nikhil_ko/15:01
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jokke_h0mer: image-download15:02
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buntingnikhil_k: My patch quietly deals with these old values15:02
buntingwhich if you expect a script to run, would you not rather have that behaviour than it just break?15:03
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nikhil_kbunting: so my question is: why should we update the client to make it compact with the older API just to unbrak scripts. The version bump loses meaning!?15:04
nikhil_kIt's matter of packaging that a specific version is installed and used15:05
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nikhil_kjokke_: your https://review.openstack.org/#/c/210025/ is being the only wait for L-315:05
nikhil_kjokke_: or do you not care if this goes in L3 or not?15:06
nikhil_kflaper87: ^15:06
buntingI would take the version bump as proper way to do it, but we should support older scripts, at least with a warning before they just break15:06
buntingThe version bump would not lose meaning, as it marks a shift, but gives people time to move to the new set15:07
nikhil_kbunting: ok, how should we handle the warning!? I think we may have a million users for clients who need to update their scripts?15:07
nikhil_kJust trying to understand15:08
nikhil_kBasically how long of a communication gap should we propose?15:08
nikhil_kand what needs to be the overlap?15:08
nikhil_kor if there's  way we can release 0.20.0 that would solve the issue?15:08
nikhil_kDon't want to be in catch22 when people say 1.0.0 has all those commands and now we can never revert them15:09
buntingYeah, we should at least have an overlap the duration is an intresting question15:09
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buntingWell the old commands should be hidden in my opinion, so if you do glance help they would not show up, but still work15:10
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buntingas that means you would slowly update your scripts as if you make changes, and use the new help, it will basicly force you to update as only the new commands are shown15:12
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nikhil_kbunting: I see15:19
jokke_nikhil_k: that and the needed by is one and the same if it goes in to l3 or RC1 ... would be just nice to get that fixed before release15:21
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nikhil_kjokke_: it _may_ go in rc1 if doc team doesn't come screaming15:22
jokke_nikhil_k: in that case we need it to l315:22
jokke_that is sec vulnerability waiting to be plugged15:22
nikhil_kmclaren: bunting : So, the above approach makes sense. I think if we can ensure that out overlap period is communicated well and we say that 1.x.x series will support that overlap..15:22
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nikhil_kthen we can define the 2.0.0 release and remove the older ones15:23
nikhil_kjokke_: flaper87 ^15:23
nikhil_kjokke_: yep15:23
jokke_nikhil_k: so that change and the one depending on that15:23
nikhil_kjokke_: once that merges, we need 2 +2s on the dependent15:23
buntingnikhil_k: Yeah, and 2.x.x would need to support 1.x.x to give people time to change15:24
jokke_nikhil_k, bunting, mclaren: one reminder ... any of your "backwards compatibility" changes cannot then affect if --os-image-api-version 2 or env[OS_IMAGE_API_VERSION]=2 is specified15:24
jokke_as that's just breaking backwards comaptibility for all those who are relying on v2 api and it's behavior15:25
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nikhil_kbunting: I don't think we can allow those rolled over from 0.x.x to 1.x.x into 2.x.x but sure those that are new in 1.x.x15:26
nikhil_kjokke_: that's a good point15:26
buntingbunting: I meant the new 1.x.x things, so there is always like one overlap15:26
nikhil_kbunting: ^15:26
nikhil_khidden commands work to save the script breakage15:27
buntingWe tend to only add in the old commands, what would be the harm of supporting it when it api 2 is specified?15:27
nikhil_kbut not the specified API behavior is dented auto-magically15:27
nikhil_kbecause, it's confusing15:28
nikhil_kanyone who does glance --debug my_command is bound to get confused15:28
jokke_bunting: I'm pretty sure there is 3-4 output "bugs" on that same tag for "backwards compatibility"15:28
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buntingi understand output, however I dont think we can make that work as easily to be backwards compatable, because then we would have to change the v2 behaviour15:29
buntingbut in the case off adding commands, im not sure it would be too much a problem15:30
nikhil_kas long as we hide them at specified api version15:31
jokke_and every single one of those needs to print the warning out that it's using non-supported command for the API and will not work in future15:31
jokke_to stderr15:32
jokke_we do not want to get stuck with them15:32
nikhil_kI don't think we promise that15:32
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buntingWe can hide them if its specified15:33
jokke_nikhil_k: ?15:33
nikhil_kjokke_: promise to support them forever15:33
jokke_nikhil_k: yeah, that's my point with those alerts15:33
nikhil_kwe don't make such promise**15:33
nikhil_kyeah, I don't know how much of those scripted users will rely on stderr but sure why not if it helps!!15:34
buntingYeah, i think we should warn on each one used, as that will push operators to use the new version15:34
nikhil_kthe things with scripts is that they are bound to break with upgrades15:35
jokke_nikhil_k: so if we do not want to stick with them we need to inform users about that ;)15:35
nikhil_kso making things explicit should be our approach15:35
jokke_nikhil_k: and if they are hidden that cannot be the help text :P15:35
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buntingThey do break, but we should make sure that is infrequent as we can15:36
nikhil_kjokke_: I don't know how many operators rely on the WARNINGs spit out everytime script if run. It really depends on how advanced your CI/CD is15:36
nikhil_kbunting: we can't guarantee that.15:37
jokke_nikhil_k: but then they at least can't claim that we did not tell them15:38
nikhil_kI think we are being nice by adding a hidden command, so much like a deprecation period for them.15:38
buntingWe can't guarantee that it won't break, but we can certainly minimise the damage15:38
nikhil_kThe best way to avoid breakage is we give explicit info on how/when to upgrade.15:38
jokke_nikhil_k: and what changes between versions15:39
nikhil_kIt should be very similar to a wiki page that says something like: our default version is going to be v2, we will support v1 and have reduced support for v1 for so and so. On this date, we stop v1 support completely (by default).15:39
nikhil_kand in case of openstack, we can say 2.0.0 is when we stop and the tentative release period is date_range15:40
jokke_nikhil_k: I think we need to support v1 in client bit longer than in the server side15:41
mclarenjokke_: +115:43
nikhil_kjokke_: sorry, I did not get it! if there's no v1 on server why do we need to support v1 on client?15:43
mclarenthe person running the server is not the same persone installing the client code15:43
jokke_nikhil_k: the client needs to support supported servers, no?15:44
jokke_nikhil_k: so our grenade should blow up right away if we remove v1 support same time from client and server15:44
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flaper87here now, folks! Sorry I had another meeting15:47
flaper87anything I can help with?15:47
nikhil_kjokke_: I see. So, if I understand it correctly - you mean to say that there should be a deprecation period15:47
nikhil_kflaper87: scroll back to see the proposed scheme for back compact commands15:48
jokke_nikhil_k: I think if we remove api support from client we cannot do it without deprecation period15:48
buntingIf we change the default version, i think we need a depreciation period as well15:49
nikhil_kjokke_: because, if we remove v1 from server and keep client v1 for a long time (say 12 months), it doesn't make much sense to me.15:49
jokke_nikhil_k: and thus we should add that deprecation warning for any backwards comaptibility work we do here because otherwise they are considered as de facto behavior for that api15:49
jokke_nikhil_k: I think it's 1 version what grenade tests15:50
nikhil_ksure, but upgrading grenade tests would need to be done around the same time as client release15:51
buntingnikhil_k: I think servers will upgrade more slowly, than clients so you need that 12 month support period15:52
nikhil_kby that logic we need smaller support period15:52
nikhil_k(for clients)15:53
buntingwhy would that be?15:54
* flaper87 reads the backlog15:55
nikhil_kif servers upgrade slower than clients, you have a faster ci/cd for client upgrades15:55
nikhil_kand I would assume 12 months is long time in any ci/cd (deployment strategy)15:55
buntingbut scripts update slowly as well15:55
nikhil_kit can't really be called CI/CD15:56
nikhil_kyeah, that means the packaging being done is slower than what openstack does15:56
flaper87If I read everything correctly, the current request is to make the client v2 CLI compatible with V115:56
flaper87I scrolled through the convo really quick15:56
jokke_bunting: but the script users should have preproduction before they deploy anything new knowing that their scripts work15:57
flaper87is that correct?15:57
nikhil_ksort of but not completely15:57
flaper87nikhil_k: was that with me?15:57
flaper87:P15:57
nikhil_kflaper87: we kinda agreed to support v1 commands as hidden ones until we release 2.x.x in 2.x.x no 0.x.x commands hidden (rolled over to 1.x.x) are allowed15:57
nikhil_kflaper87: yes15:57
nikhil_kflaper87: 2.x.x will support hidden commands that have become old in 1.x.x15:58
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flaper87hidden as not documented and not in the `--help` output ?15:58
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nikhil_kyes15:58
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flaper87Would that include a deprecation warning ?15:58
nikhil_kand possibly some warning that let the deployers know when to upgrade15:58
nikhil_kflaper87: exactly15:58
openstackgerritDeepti Ramakrishna proposed openstack/glance-specs: Support single disk image OVA/OVF package upload  https://review.openstack.org/19486815:59
buntingif they use it they would get a warning15:59
nikhil_kand they won't be allowed when you specific api version explicitly15:59
flaper87well, that's a deprecation path :P15:59
flaper87yup15:59
nikhil_kspecify*15:59
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nikhil_kmclaren who disappeared from here :-16:00
nikhil_kIt should be very similar to a wiki page that says something like: our default version is going to be v2, we will support v1 and have reduced support for v1 for so and so. On this date, we stop v1 support completely (by default).16:00
nikhil_k11:40:36 [ nikhil_k] and in case of openstack, we can say 2.0.0 is when we stop and the tentative release period is date_range16:00
flaper87to be fair, these deprecations should've been done in 0.x.x and then removed in 1.x.x16:01
flaper87but anyway16:01
nikhil_kflaper87: I think that sounds like a reasonable leeway16:01
nikhil_kflaper87: in that case people would have debated the need for it16:01
flaper87exactly and that'd have given us time to correct the inconvenience16:02
flaper87That said, we can correct the process for 2.016:02
nikhil_kI think we are moving towards a push model when we need to push certain things to move forward16:02
flaper87that is, lets deprecate in 1.x.x things that will go away in 2.016:02
flaper87and not add in 2.0 hidden commands16:02
* nikhil_k hopes we can get back to a pull one16:02
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buntingI think its more about the default behaviour, that supports the backwards compatablitity16:04
nikhil_kbunting: let's see. for now we are set.16:04
nikhil_kwe will know more on the user requests later when 2.0 is planned16:05
nikhil_kit's been fun. thanks guys. I will see you all around later hopefully on a different note.16:05
flaper87I also think, and this is probably 2.0 material, the client shouldn't match the API 1:1. HAving a more human friendly CLI helps avoiding this incompatibilities because everything is handled in glanceclient internally rather than through CLI arguments16:06
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jokke_flaper87: but we should not change our v2 API behavior just because it became default, right?16:11
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jokke_namely stuff like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219802/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219205/16:12
flaper87jokke_: yes16:13
* flaper87 clicks16:13
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mclarennikhil_k: sorry, I missed a lot of that16:15
mclarencan we get this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219802 into the stable client release (in theory)16:16
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jokke_mclaren: how do you explain that backwards incompatibility to all Images API v2 users who expects Images API v2 to behave like it did day before?16:19
nikhil_kmclaren: maybe, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranch#Stable_branch_policy . it does come under the #2 user benefit criterion16:19
nikhil_kjokke_: so I agree. all behavior that changes the v2 defaults and makes it more like v1 is bad16:20
mclarenjokke_: we don't need to be backwards compatible when it comes to bugs16:20
nikhil_kbut if we have some things that aren't in v2 and needed for v1 then it might be okay16:21
jokke_mclaren: so this is not client bug but API bug discovered only now ;)16:21
mclarennikhil_k: ok, thanks. So there is no principle against merging that patch, we can use our discretion.16:23
openstackgerritKairat Kushaev proposed openstack/glance: Check value format when uploading blob value  https://review.openstack.org/21926216:24
mclarensimilarly, we can make "image-create --is-public True" work again?16:24
flaper87I personally think that's a bad idea :/16:24
flaper87I even tried to do that before in glanceclient when I was working on making it work with nova16:25
flaper87and the patch got rejected pretty much for the same reason16:25
flaper87When are we going to remove `--is-public` ?16:25
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mclarenso, we have about two weeks to potentially get things like this in.16:26
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flaper87I'd like us to be very careful. Even for things that aren't in v2 because, while that will help with migration, it might end up giving the wrong message16:26
flaper87Look at py2 and py316:26
* flaper87 just dropped that bomb16:27
flaper87:P16:27
jokke_ouuuuh16:27
flaper87I'm not saying we should just go and break stuff but we won't be able to provide a 1:1 compatibility between these 2 versions16:27
buntingIf we don't have it in the help, and show a deprecation warning, we would send a clear message?16:27
flaper87and people will have to update code and scripts anyway16:27
mclarenIf someone puts up a patch to unbreak image-create scripts with 'is-public True' why would we not do that? Why would we choose to break stuff when we don't have to?16:28
flaper87Let me put it in another way: Why would we choose to maintain something that is not forward compatible ?16:28
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flaper87It's not part of the API16:29
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flaper87Note that I'm not advocating to reject everything, I'm saying lets be careful and remember that things we add we'll have to maintain and this is not solving our issue16:29
flaper87this is just postponing it16:29
mclarenwhy is it only postponing it?16:30
mclaren(even postponing is an improvement)16:30
flaper87and, FWIW, it shouldn't be news to anyone that v2 is not compatible with v1. V2 has been around since grizzly and the client has had support for it since havana ?16:30
flaper87mclaren: might be, might not be.16:30
flaper87we'll have to get rid of `--is-public` eventually16:30
flaper87because it's not a boolean field anymore16:31
mclarenwe can map it to visibility public, that's not hard16:31
flaper87mclaren: sure but we can do the same with many other parts of our cli.16:32
flaper87that goes back to what I said before. I don't think the CLI should match 1:1 our API16:32
flaper87because it just makes it harder to maintain16:32
flaper87For instance, do we want to talk about having to pass json through the CLI?16:32
mclarenok, we're not doing it because it's hard?16:32
flaper87mclaren: nope, I didn't say that16:32
flaper87did I say that?16:32
mclarensorry16:33
flaper87I'll re-review those patches tomorrow with a fresher mind16:33
nikhil_kbut cli should not be confusing enough for users to be look at the --debug and say they can't understand it at all16:33
flaper87nikhil_k: was that with me?16:33
nikhil_kso, somewhere in the middle where we don't confuse users and also given them a hint that this is a deprecation period so it sorta works16:33
flaper87sorry, my brain is tired16:34
nikhil_kyeah, same here. let's chat on this tomorrow16:34
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openstackgerritBrian Rosmaita proposed openstack/glance: Add tasks info to glance documentation  https://review.openstack.org/22016616:36
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kragnizmclaren, nikhil_k: another option is to make using --is-public and other options not present in v2 print a link to migration documentation16:38
kragniznot sure if that's been discussed16:38
jokke_oh kragniz is still alive \o/16:38
jokke_kragniz: it has not and I think it's not absolutely ridiculous idea either16:39
kragnizjokke_: just back from the middle of the baltic!16:39
kragnizjokke_: it stops people from wondering why their command just broke, at least16:40
jokke_kragniz: enjoyed Ahvenanmaa?16:40
kragnizjokke_: yeah, it was pretty nice16:41
nikhil_kkragniz: hey!16:42
mclarenkragniz: for --is-public, no -- that's easy to handle. For --copy-from, sure.16:42
nikhil_kkragniz: sure, that's a good idea but not sure if it helps our scripty users bunting ^^16:42
kragnizjokke_: I stocked up on that salty liquorice stuff16:42
jokke_uuh16:43
jokke_kragniz: I really need to get there as well :(16:43
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kragniznikhil_k: good point, but it at least gives an idea on how to migrate16:43
nikhil_kkragniz: good help tip. we should add that to the merge proposal16:43
buntingnikhil_k: Yeah, got to think of the scripters ;)16:44
jokke_nikhil_k: first thing I got from that was migration page ... we need to get that done as atm. is pretty much non existing16:44
nikhil_kjokke_: heh, I think it's the wiki that stuart setup can be renamed to indicate so.16:45
mclarenCinder  map back to the old style in these cases, but without showing it in the help.16:45
jokke_nikhil_k: not really ... it just tels what's different, not how to get over it and continue life16:46
nikhil_kyeah, how to is needed for sure16:46
nikhil_kbunting: so that's the dependency ^16:46
nikhil_kspecifically 'how_to' & rename16:47
nikhil_kbut you might get some more of these in the review16:47
nikhil_kthanks to jokke_ for being proactively letting know what can come up. good thing it doesn't show up on the review at the last minute!16:48
nikhil_kmy brain is tired atm. so, I am off for lunch. catch up with you guys later16:49
* nikhil_k &16:49
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buntingI wrote this, as this is what we have seemed to come up with so far: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-backwards-compatibility16:54
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stevellesigmavirus24: I'd like to bend your ear a bit on Glance topics early next week FYI17:31
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sigmavirus24maybe18:25
openstackgerritMike Fedosin proposed openstack/glance: Disable v3 API by default  https://review.openstack.org/21570918:27
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openstackgerritStuart McLaren proposed openstack/glance_store: Swift reseller prefix/service token support  https://review.openstack.org/18676919:08
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openstackgerritMike Fedosin proposed openstack/glance: Disable v3 API by default  https://review.openstack.org/21570920:03
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openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Consider `--os-token` when using v2  https://review.openstack.org/21968620:16
openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Don't make `help` require auth parameters  https://review.openstack.org/22009620:16
openstackgerritFlavio Percoco proposed openstack/python-glanceclient: Check if v2 is available and fallback  https://review.openstack.org/21946920:16
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openstackgerritMerged openstack/glance: Updated from global requirements  https://review.openstack.org/21508220:19
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openstackgerritTom Cocozzello proposed openstack/glance_store: Activate pep8 check that _ is imported  https://review.openstack.org/22032021:30
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