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| spotz | Hey all - Meeting in 55 minutes | 18:04 |
|---|---|---|
| spotz | #startmeeting Diversity-WG | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Jun 4 19:00:04 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is spotz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Diversity-WG)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'diversity_wg' | 19:00 |
| spotz | #topic Roll Call | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Diversity-WG)" | 19:00 | |
| cmurphy | o/ | 19:00 |
| spotz | Hey | 19:01 |
| fungi | ohai | 19:01 |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-wg-agenda | 19:02 |
| spotz | if anyone needs it | 19:02 |
| ell0log | o/ | 19:03 |
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| spotz | We'll give folks another minute to join in and then we'll start | 19:05 |
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| spotz | Hey oikiki we're just starting | 19:08 |
| spotz | So on the etherpad I added some feedback I had gotten towards then end of the summit. I mentioned the alcoholo free during the feedback session. But was also suggested no photo stickers and gender pronoun stickers for badges | 19:09 |
| spotz | Did anyone else get any feedback outside of the WG session? | 19:10 |
| fungi | ooh, i missed the no photos please suggestion. i might even ask to add that to my badge | 19:11 |
| spotz | fungi: That was actually on twitter | 19:11 |
| spotz | And that was something they had ot Open Source summit | 19:11 |
| spotz | even little stickers with you can talk to me, don't talk to me, etc | 19:12 |
| ell0log | Does that need to be a sticker or could it be a question when you register and its printed right on to the badge? | 19:12 |
| fungi | alcohol free areas ought to be easy too, just cordon off a space and add some signs | 19:12 |
| fungi | i expect no-photos-please could just be a reg form addition/printed icon | 19:12 |
| spotz | Yeah and we just need to make sure it stands out vs oops I didn't see it there | 19:13 |
| fungi | though one up side to stickers is that it allows people to make that choice on the day of the event without needing to request a badge reprint | 19:13 |
| ell0log | I think having it printed on the badge in a specific area will eliminate any "well I didn't see their sticker" issues. but I did not consider people changing their minds:/ | 19:14 |
| spotz | True, it could be a question and you're given the badge or whatever | 19:14 |
| spotz | something you could slip in and out of your badge holder | 19:14 |
| spotz | The only feedback I got that may be hard is when we have a panel have more diversity. We can't ask people their religion or sexual orientation to include them. So I think an option would be to put out a call and if someone wants to step up thatt could work | 19:17 |
| oikiki | hi spotz thanks! | 19:18 |
| fungi | the foundation did get some feedback commending it on (gender and racial) diversity of the keynote speakers on monday at least. that was great to see | 19:18 |
| oikiki | write speak code and soe other events use a red(no photos)-yellow (ask first) - green (take my photo) sticker on badges | 19:19 |
| ell0log | That's a hard one. Because I have been to more than 1 panel discussions for diversity or women in <enter field> where... there is no diversity or women on the panel. | 19:19 |
| spotz | Yeah the foundation has always been good about gender and racial diversity on the stage. It just gets hard when it's not a visual thing | 19:19 |
| oikiki | im sure that the photogs sometimes mess up a bit, but when they edit, they throw out the photos that are red/yellow (taken without asking first) | 19:19 |
| spotz | oikiki: I think that's what they had at open source summit | 19:20 |
| oikiki | you could also do different colored lanyards | 19:20 |
| oikiki | which are more visible than stickers | 19:20 |
| ell0log | oh! +1 for the colored lanyard! | 19:20 |
| spotz | Lanyards are a paid sponsorship, I thought of that too | 19:20 |
| spotz | And while I have some red Red Hat ones and some white I think the costs of having different colors might be prohibitive | 19:21 |
| ell0log | would it be to hard to ask the sponsor to do 2 colors? White and whatever color is their "company" color. | 19:21 |
| spotz | I think it might depend on the company | 19:21 |
| fungi | yeah, a lot of attendees (well, a non-negligible number anyway) supply their own lanyards so they don't need to be sporting some corporate logo | 19:22 |
| fungi | i toss the lanyards and just clip my badge to my shirt pocket | 19:22 |
| oikiki | stickers or ribbons at the bottom work too, but educating the photog and picking someone empathetic is 75% of the battle | 19:22 |
| spotz | Mostof the pictures outside of booth winners I think were FNTech and their photgrapher is great | 19:24 |
| fungi | at least for osf-run events the same logistics crew is used event to event and provides their in-house photographers who are regulars (there's only a couple of them and they've been there for ages) so if they're given some extra rules that's not likely to be a challenge | 19:24 |
| spotz | And a handout could be included for media | 19:25 |
| fungi | right, fntech, they're great | 19:25 |
| spotz | So I think no photos and alcohol free areas are definitely something we can proobably get done for Berlin and possibly pronoun stickers | 19:25 |
| fungi | at some lower-key events (e.g., ptg) we have foundation staff doing photography and they're quite aware of these sorts of concerns | 19:25 |
| spotz | Those sound like good acheivable goals? | 19:26 |
| fungi | i think so. definitely worth asking the events team about at any rate | 19:26 |
| oikiki | i missed it but people had problems with alcohol at the summit? | 19:26 |
| fungi | oikiki: some people don't drink alcohol and would rather not be in contact with people who are actively drinking (for a variety of reasons) but would still like to be able to participate in at least some of the social aspect of the after-hours stuff | 19:27 |
| oikiki | makes sense! | 19:27 |
| oikiki | bc at kubecon they did something that i thought was interesting: they gave you 2 drink tickets for the event that had alcohol | 19:27 |
| oikiki | and it seemed to also minimize the amount of drinking at the event | 19:28 |
| fungi | i think it's more that you may ascribe to a religion which forbids consumption of alcohol or maybe you're a recovering alcoholic, and so attempting to engage in conversation with someone who's buzzed/tipsy could be annoying or otherwise challenging | 19:28 |
| oikiki | totally understood | 19:29 |
| oikiki | i thought the drink tix were interesting bc it seemed that people didn't end up drinking all that much there generally (just as a data point) | 19:29 |
| spotz | What fungi said, it's just so people can have the option of going to an event and not having to be surrounded by folks drinking | 19:29 |
| fungi | so less about how to reduce consumption at the events (we already have some options there) but also to give those particular people a safe space | 19:29 |
| oikiki | makes sense perhaps having a dialogue with people running the afterhours events would be helpful too? | 19:30 |
| spotz | Alot of events with tickets the folks who really want to end up drinking alot get more tickets from folks not drinking | 19:30 |
| * fungi drinks probably a bit too heavily at these things, so feels a little hypocritical championing the alcohol-free crowd, but is overly aware as a result | 19:30 | |
| spotz | oikiki: I'll hit up Erin, Kendall adn Claire | 19:31 |
| fungi | thanks spotz! | 19:31 |
| spotz | fungi: I'm usually a one and done if that but I can see all sides | 19:32 |
| spotz | #action Spotz get with Erin, Kendall and Claire about alscohol-free zone, no phots and possibility of pronouns | 19:33 |
| spotz | Anyone else with feedback? | 19:33 |
| oikiki | i liked that the diversity cocktail event was before the summit | 19:34 |
| oikiki | which is kind of random feedback but having things like that in the beginning is great to meet people who you can connect iwth later on. i was also super happy to see how many people turned out at that event as allies. | 19:34 |
| fungi | that was really great. i also liked that we cancelled having a board/tc/uc/foundation dinner in favor of having all our community leaders meet up at the diversity social | 19:34 |
| oikiki | oh no way! | 19:35 |
| fungi | figured that would be a better wat ti show our support and set an example for the rest of the community | 19:35 |
| fungi | er, better way to | 19:35 |
| oikiki | wow that was a great idea! | 19:35 |
| oikiki | it made a really great impression | 19:36 |
| spotz | The social will be dependent on a sponsor for Berlin so cross your fingers | 19:36 |
| spotz | We're also hoping the WoO networking lunch sponsor will let that be changed to a diversity one | 19:36 |
| fungi | i'll do my best to put a bug in the ear of the events staff in case we're struggling to get sponsorship | 19:36 |
| spotz | I know Red Hat said they wanted to keep sponsoring stuff so... :) | 19:38 |
| oikiki | i think it would be nice to sub the woo networking lunch -> diversity netowroking lunch | 19:39 |
| oikiki | if that's what you meant spotz | 19:39 |
| oikiki | since the overlap is huge and i feel bad leaving people out | 19:40 |
| spotz | oikiki: The plan is to try to do that for Berlin if the sponsor (already have one) agrees if not we'll start in Denver | 19:40 |
| oikiki | nice!!! | 19:40 |
| spotz | I don't know who the sponsor is yet so I can't be certain they'd be ok with it, Erin was going to check | 19:40 |
| fungi | agreed, as i said in the diversity wg session i skipped the woo lunch because i didn't want to intrude | 19:40 |
| fungi | if it were billed more clearly as a "diversity" lunch or whatever that would go a long way | 19:41 |
| spotz | Yeah it's weird when it was the pre-summit WoO social in Austin it was more males then females then the lunch was 90% females | 19:41 |
| fungi | i'll admit i accidentally ended up at the woo happy hour in dublin because i was meeting people to go find dinner and that's where they said to find them ;) | 19:42 |
| spotz | hehe | 19:43 |
| spotz | Ok let's move on as we have 17 minutes | 19:43 |
| spotz | #topic Survey Final draft | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Survey Final draft (Meeting topic: Diversity-WG)" | 19:43 | |
| spotz | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-survey-spring-2018_final | 19:44 |
| spotz | If everyone could take a peek and see if there's anything obviously wrong(typos/grammar) or missing | 19:44 |
| spotz | I'd like to get that to aprice by end of the week. I kinda dropped the ball on getting it into one doc | 19:44 |
| oikiki | is this going to be sent out to..? | 19:45 |
| fungi | do we need to indicate which of these are multi-select and which are single-select options? | 19:46 |
| spotz | fungi Not sure:( I know I put check all that apply on one | 19:47 |
| spotz | oikiki: It'll be a survey monkey or some other format we'll mail to the OpenStack lists, put out on social, etc | 19:47 |
| fungi | right, that's what made me wonder about some of the others which also seem like multi-select candidaets | 19:47 |
| spotz | fungi If you think it might just mark it? | 19:48 |
| fungi | will do | 19:48 |
| oikiki | gotcha | 19:48 |
| spotz | we'll let Allison sort it out:) | 19:48 |
| oikiki | question: why are certain nationalities broken out in the ethnicity question? | 19:48 |
| oikiki | migth it be better to say: south asian (specify), east asian (specify) southeast asian (specify) bc making people be "other ..." is kind of :( | 19:49 |
| spotz | oikiki: The only question with choices I could really find was from the US census, so I add some from an earlier census. Then as we notmally do we'll allow folks to provide a response | 19:49 |
| aprice | once I get the final content, I can post the link in here to make sure that multi-select and single select are done correctly | 19:49 |
| spotz | If we have too many places for folks to have to write in we need a team of people to volunteer to go through and see if things are really the same | 19:50 |
| spotz | thanks aprice | 19:50 |
| aprice | np - sorry about not getting this done pre-Summit. there were so many things happening :) | 19:51 |
| fungi | yeah, i wonder whether usa census bureau questions are skewed towards the ethnicities that the usa census bureau cares to track | 19:51 |
| oikiki | it is fungi | 19:51 |
| fungi | taking a census in another part of the world, you might ask much different ethnicity questions | 19:51 |
| spotz | aprice: I actually dropped the ball:( | 19:52 |
| spotz | I couldn't even find other census out there:( | 19:52 |
| oikiki | that's why it hink it might be better to ask: east asian: specify | 19:52 |
| spotz | It almost made me want to go back to what region are you from which mozilla used | 19:52 |
| oikiki | also there isn't an african choice they are presumably lumped into black/african american | 19:53 |
| oikiki | i think regions make sense spotz considering openstack is a global project | 19:53 |
| spotz | oikiki: Only trouble with the regions is then we're not narrowed enough for the next question | 19:54 |
| oikiki | you could ask to specify | 19:54 |
| oikiki | it could be region:country | 19:55 |
| oikiki | then minority yes (specify) /no /prefer not to say | 19:55 |
| spotz | Well we already are asking what country they reside in. We pulled out what country were you born in | 19:56 |
| cmurphy | country or region you're from does not really say anything about your ethnicity | 19:56 |
| oikiki | while that's true, that list makes me feel really uncomfortable | 19:57 |
| cmurphy | i can tell you i'm from the us west coast but that doesn't give any information about what racial barriers i have if any | 19:57 |
| fungi | and conversely, your ethnicity is often defined relative to the country in context | 19:57 |
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| oikiki | but that is what teh next question asks | 19:57 |
| oikiki | Do you identify as a member of a racial/ethnic minority in the country where you currently reside? | 19:58 |
| oikiki | and allow people to specify | 19:58 |
| oikiki | bc the list that's there now is not great | 19:58 |
| fungi | yeah, maybe we just pull out the ethnicity question? does it get us anything useful in a global context which the combination of country of residence and local minority status doesn't? | 19:59 |
| oikiki | local minority status with option to describe is what im rooting for | 19:59 |
| oikiki | and i think the list as it stands will get skipped or people just clicking other or feeling weird | 20:00 |
| fungi | Do you identify as a member of a racial/ethnic minority in the country where you currently reside? no, yes but prefer not to say, yes (freeform answer) | 20:01 |
| spotz | fungi Well we won't have any information in regards to ethnicity which we've been lackiut there is gender diversityng. Allw e ever really put o | 20:01 |
| cmurphy | there are a few different axes here, local minority as well as a minority within tech/open source/openstack | 20:01 |
| cmurphy | i think we care about both | 20:01 |
| oikiki | yes i think those two questions should remain | 20:01 |
| fungi | i think the point is that the idea of "ethnicity" is relative not global. a global list of ethnicities may be hard to source | 20:01 |
| cmurphy | that's true | 20:02 |
| spotz | I'm open for alternatives, that's the great part of using an ethrepad | 20:02 |
| oikiki | agreed fungi. if you ask these questions you have to be prepared for how people outside the us will respond and whether or not it will be useful | 20:02 |
| spotz | We're 2 minutes over, but we've been sitting with these in various places for at least 2 months so it'd be nice to get things finalized again and out | 20:03 |
| spotz | Feel free to keep going gonna close the meeting out | 20:03 |
| spotz | #endmeeting | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Etherpad for Diversity WG Forum ideas - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-forum Diversity Survey draft - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/diversity-survey-spring-2018_draft" | 20:03 | |
| fungi | thanks spotz! | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Jun 4 20:03:42 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2018/diversity_wg.2018-06-04-19.00.html | 20:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2018/diversity_wg.2018-06-04-19.00.txt | 20:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/diversity_wg/2018/diversity_wg.2018-06-04-19.00.log.html | 20:03 |
| fungi | yeah, given oikiki's prompting, i think i'm leaning toward dropping the ethnicity question if we can make the racial minority question optionally open-ended | 20:04 |
| fungi | asking non-americans to slot themselves into americentric ideas of ethnicity could be downright insulting | 20:04 |
| spotz | I don't think there's an issue doing that except for dealing with the data on the other side though I think CHAOSS is willing to help | 20:05 |
| oikiki | id also make the openstack minority question be openended | 20:05 |
| oikiki | bc it's an opp to discover how people are really feeling about the community | 20:05 |
| fungi | that's an excellent point. knowing whether people feel marginalized within our community, irrespective of their situation at home, is probably what we're going for | 20:07 |
| oikiki | Can I ask what we're looking for in this question: | 20:12 |
| oikiki | How often do you interact with OpenStack community members? | 20:12 |
| fungi | i'm not entirely sure what the goal was with that question, but since it lacked actual options i added some as a straw man | 20:14 |
| oikiki | i was just htinking that that question might not be revealing enough without asking whether the people they interacted wtih were at their own company or not | 20:14 |
| oikiki | bc people might interact with openstackers daily bc they work at X company, but rarely deal with any other stackers because ____ | 20:15 |
| fungi | agreed | 20:18 |
| fungi | i wonder how we could rephrase that to indicate contact with other members of the openstack community who aren't coworkers (except in cases like mine, i consider the other members of the community with whom i spend most of my day communicating to be my actual coworkers, as i have much more regular contact with them than with people who happen to be employed at the same organization i am) | 20:20 |
| oikiki | could add another question immediately after with checkboxes ex: are they: coworkers, other openstackers (or something less clumsy) | 20:22 |
| spotz | I think the intent on that is to try to determine if people are communicating/interacting an | 20:22 |
| oikiki | what about are the interactions with: mostly coworkers - coworkers and other openstackers - non-coworkers/other openstackers | 20:24 |
| oikiki | fungi ^^ | 20:26 |
| oikiki | I also think that it would be great to add something about the OpenStack code of conduct and contact info if people think that they've experienced something inappropriate. | 20:32 |
| oikiki | or will that be in the intro to the survey, spotz? | 20:33 |
| spotz | oikiki: I think we could send out a blast(reminder) not sure it needs to go out with this | 20:34 |
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