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| openstackgerrit | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/governance master: Update TC members for Train cycle election results https://review.openstack.org/641171 | 00:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/governance master: Update TC members for Train cycle election results https://review.openstack.org/641171 | 00:40 |
| fungi | efried: i appreciate the pronunciation key! ;) | 00:49 |
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| efried | fungi: :) I know I don't help my case with my fun friday nick being fried_rice | 13:28 |
| cmurphy | i've been saying it wrong in my head for way too long now | 13:28 |
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| * cdent wonders if freed rice takes to the road, does some hitchhiking and comes back home wiser | 13:29 | |
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| efried | IMO, docs ptl electorate should include everyone who's had to consult on their in-repo docs. | 14:18 |
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| smcginnis | That makes sense to me with how the docs are done now. | 14:18 |
| smcginnis | I could imagine it would make coming up with the list of electorates significantly more difficult though. | 14:19 |
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| efried | yup | 14:22 |
| efried | scour IRC for every time I had to ask stephen how to do X | 14:22 |
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| efried | or just open up the electorate to "everyone". But then you'd wind up with a bunch of noise from folks who actually have nothing to do with docs ever. | 14:23 |
| smcginnis | I could see extracting any commits to ^doc/source.*$ in official repos. | 14:23 |
| efried | mm, that's not a bad solution. | 14:23 |
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| smcginnis | You contributed to docs, you are part of the doc team electorate. | 14:23 |
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| openstackgerrit | Mohammed Naser proposed openstack/governance master: Add Mohammed Naser nomination as chair https://review.openstack.org/641405 | 14:55 |
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| efried | smcginnis: Is that doable enough that it would be worth proposing for real? | 15:04 |
| efried | smcginnis: in which case, how would one go about proposing it? Throw it to the ML and see what the reaction is? | 15:05 |
| smcginnis | efried: Not sure if it would be doable at this late of stage. | 15:05 |
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| smcginnis | efried: The election team does have a set of scripts that generate those rolls. I'm not sure how much effort it would be to modify those to do that. | 15:06 |
| efried | okay. Maybe I'll throw a note out with that caveat and we can at least consider it for next time. | 15:06 |
| smcginnis | ML might be a good place to bring up the idea, but fungi, diablo_rojo_phon, tonyb[m], persia might be able to comment on feasibility. | 15:06 |
| efried | ack, thanks | 15:06 |
| persia | The main technical limitation is developing the list of all the contributors. It's relatively easy to parse git history to get a list of folk. Less so to scrape IRC. | 15:08 |
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| smcginnis | persia: Would doing this for docs be radically different than what is done for every other project? | 15:09 |
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| persia | smcginnis: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/election/tree/openstack_election/owners.py#n254 is the main logic used to generate rolls from gerrit changes. | 15:12 |
| persia | I don't see any reason that the docs team couldn't have a different script (or different rules), so long as a) the docs team wants it, b) the TC instructs the election officials to do it, and c) someone has a script that generates the right list. | 15:12 |
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| cdent | this only matters if there's actually an election, yes? | 15:13 |
| persia | But yes, it would be radically different :) | 15:13 |
| persia | cdent: Yes. | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | cdent: True | 15:13 |
| cdent | do we expect one? | 15:13 |
| persia | I don't remember a docs team election in some time. I may be mistaken. | 15:13 |
| smcginnis | At least it doesn't look like it would be too difficult since it already using gerrit queries to get this information and gerrit supports querying based on file paths. | 15:14 |
| persia | Or, rather, election processing happened, but with a single candidate and no voting, so the generated rolls were ignored. | 15:14 |
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| AJaeger | cdent, persia, smcginnis : but it is also the question for who can run as docs PTL | 15:31 |
| smcginnis | Yeah, I was thinking that may be a more interesting part of that. | 15:32 |
| persia | efried: Do you believe there is a significant contributor not caught by the current scripts that would like to run for PTL? | 15:33 |
| persia | Interestingly, it seems those eligible are "Foundation individual members that are also committers", so explicitly not extra-ATCs. Dunno if that is intentional, or an artefact of the process by which the page I examined was created. | 15:36 |
| efried | persia: Oh, is the electorate the same as the list of eligible candidates? | 15:37 |
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| efried | Cause I was thinking along the lines of wanting to be able to vote in that election on the basis of having had lots of interaction with a candidate helping me with docs stuff in non-docs repos. | 15:37 |
| persia | efried: Yes. Members of the electorate are considered valid candidates. | 15:38 |
| efried | I guess it makes sense for the electorate to be the same as the eligible candidate pool in general. Is there a way to make it not so in a special case? | 15:38 |
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| persia | But there hasn't been any contention for Documentation PTL in the last couple years. | 15:40 |
| persia | There are no current mechanisms to give votes to folk who don't have commits to project repos. It would be possible to create a mechanism for that, subject to several layers of review and approval. | 15:42 |
| persia | Personally, I believe it isn't worth doing for Documentation until/unless there is a case where there is an expection of multiple candidates for Documentation PTL. | 15:43 |
| persia | Currently, folk without commits are explicitly not accepted as candidates. If there is someone without commits to project team's repos that wishes to stand for PTL, it might be worth discussing with the team, but I'm uncertain that there is time during this election to get the appropriate approvals. | 15:44 |
| persia | In most cases, the easy workaround is to make a simple change (e.g. spelling fix) to be a committer: for those likely to be PTL, that should be trivial to arrange. | 15:45 |
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| efried | persia: Thanks for the feedback. | 16:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: automatically derive the release team PTL for delegating those changes https://review.openstack.org/641465 | 18:44 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: add vote list to status report https://review.openstack.org/641466 | 18:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: add vote list to status report https://review.openstack.org/641466 | 18:48 |
| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: show the owner of each patch in status report https://review.openstack.org/641468 | 18:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: add vote list to status report https://review.openstack.org/641466 | 20:24 |
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| tonyb | efried, smcginnis, persia, fungi, diablo_rojo: We could do that (look for gerrit changes that touch doc/source). It's similar (but harder) to how we did stable branches | 20:31 |
| tonyb | efried, smcginnis, persia, fungi, diablo_rojo: If we disucss it on the ML and the TC approve the change (via a resilution?) we could do it for the election in 6 months | 20:32 |
| efried | tonyb: ack. How do you feel about the electorate being different from the candidate pool? | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure it makes sense to do that, though. Someone updating docs in 1 project does not necessarily understand the issues around the central doc team. I would rather either change the doc team to a "doc tools team" or a SIG, assuming we feel we actually need to change at all. | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | We don't, for example, say that anyone editing tests in any repo is part of the QA team. | 20:33 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: I'm not saying I have thought through it and endorse it as a plan, just that it's doable from an implementatin POV | 20:34 |
| fungi | catching up... persia: not sure if you found it but there is a separate carve-out for the tc approving additional members of the electorate at its discretion, i can hunt that down if necessary | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | tonyb : ack | 20:34 |
| efried | dhellmann: I get that, and I've got no intention of making this a crusade or whatever. I was just coming from a place of: | 20:35 |
| efried | - I'm guessing the number of people who contributed code to the docs repo is pretty small (only a guess, could be way off); and | 20:35 |
| efried | - Needing to do docs stuff, I've frequently had to ask for help from... person, and it would be nice if I were able to cast a vote for that person by virtue of having received such help and thus knowing that they know their docs stuff. | 20:35 |
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| dhellmann | sure, I can see that perspective | 20:35 |
| tonyb | the *easy* way would be for the existing docs PTL to write a tool that finds the 'right people' and propose them as extra ATCs | 20:35 |
| fungi | also as for the suggested electorate redefinition for the docs ptl, the last cross-cutting electorate we had like that was the stable branch management team, and it was a pain to incorporate into our automation but we were able to make it work | 20:35 |
| tonyb | where 'right people' could be more than $x chnages written for the docs in $offical_project or whatevere | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | we should add something about extra-atcs (or extra-apcs) to https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/charter.html | 20:36 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: Yeah probably | 20:37 |
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| cdent | I think there's a powerful case to be made that PTLs should be elected from the entire body of ATCs, without regard to project affiliation | 20:38 |
| cdent | we are a collaborating community after all | 20:38 |
| fungi | and on tonyb's "easy way" suggestion, that's how the i18n team does it today and how the nova team did when they imported the baremetal driver code from ironic | 20:38 |
| cdent | (if, of course, we even had enough people to run elections) | 20:39 |
| cdent | s/people/candidates/ | 20:39 |
| fungi | i think it would be a good idea to raise the topic of changing the ptl electorate model on the ml. i expect there are a variety of opinions on the matter | 20:40 |
| tonyb | fungi: ++ | 20:40 |
| cdent | big yes to email | 20:40 |
| fungi | the tc can fairly easily overhaul ptl elections if they choose. it's not something which needs bylaws changes afaik | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | no, those are described in the charter | 20:41 |
| fungi | bylaws only talks about how tc members are elected, doesn't really say anything at all about ptls | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | right, all of the rest of that is delegated to the tc to deal with | 20:42 |
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| persia | fungi: I wasn't especially looking, but that's a good exception case in the event that sufficient coding isn't done in advance of the next election for whatever conclusion the mailing list discussion reaches. | 20:45 |
| fungi | sure | 20:45 |
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| openstackgerrit | Matt Riedemann proposed openstack/governance master: Document goal closure https://review.openstack.org/641507 | 22:40 |
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