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| chatter29 | hey guys | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| chatter29 | allah is doing | 00:06 |
| chatter29 | sun is not doing allah is doing | 00:07 |
| chatter29 | to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger | 00:07 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance master: add freezer planning artifacts for goal-python35 https://review.openstack.org/466826 | 07:44 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Update Design Summit -> Forum + PTG https://review.openstack.org/469106 | 13:32 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/project-team-guide master: Relax rules around independent library releases https://review.openstack.org/469109 | 13:36 |
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| andymccr | jamespage: ping - having some issues with our gate using the nova-lxd driver in the last few days, was hoping for some pointers if you have a moment | 13:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Add "Doc liaisons" to top-5 wanted list https://review.openstack.org/469115 | 13:50 |
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| EmilienM | ttx: iiuc no meeting today but next week, right? | 15:32 |
| ttx | EmilienM: yes | 15:33 |
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| inc0 | hey dhellmann dims and others, qq, can we restart conversation about image publishing? It kind of died off.. | 17:50 |
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| dims | inc0 : Do you have any patterns of how other "cloud native" folks do this? From what i can tell K8S and others follow the same pattern using regular release management (example 1.5.5 from https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md/#v155) you will see there was a vulnerability and that triggered a release which triggered an update of the images on gcr.io | 18:01 |
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| inc0 | dims: no, I think they are different because they don't have dedicated "project" to create images | 18:02 |
| inc0 | as in, release of container is release of project inside container not project releasing container | 18:02 |
| dims | inc0 : does not matter whether the bits are in vendored code or extra python bits, the management of it is the same | 18:03 |
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| inc0 | what I'm saying is rease of Kolla project is less important for kolla nova container than release of Nova project | 18:04 |
| dims | inc0 : see above, what goes into the container does not matter, it's a release of a artifact backed by a SHA | 18:05 |
| dims | at least we can start with this and then see where things go. i do not want to fight, all or nothing | 18:05 |
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| inc0 | dims: I agree release is open question, that's why I wanted to start from daily builds | 18:08 |
| inc0 | daily is mostly to work with gates | 18:09 |
| inc0 | and PoC | 18:09 |
| inc0 | this thing, if we agree to push it, will evolve in time | 18:10 |
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| inc0 | dims: btw https://hub.docker.com/u/openstackhelm/ it's not just us | 18:13 |
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| inc0 | I already raised issue with openstack-helm team that they might want to be careful with pushing stuff until we figure it out | 18:13 |
| inc0 | portdirect ^ | 18:14 |
| dims | inc0 : portdirect : i do not support pushing daily builds from any branch to public repositories for sure. | 18:17 |
| inc0 | we need to balance security tho | 18:19 |
| inc0 | that is main issue that was raised and I fully agree with this being an issue | 18:19 |
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| dims | inc0 : if you want to post a fully thought out proposal, please feel free. i'd personally like to start from the other end (stable branch->SHA->release->upload) | 18:27 |
| inc0 | so middle ground would be daily build of tagged sources | 18:28 |
| inc0 | which we were thinking about too, just as step 2 | 18:28 |
| dims | i won't go that far personally to start with | 18:28 |
| inc0 | yeah, it's going to be more complex | 18:28 |
| inc0 | and I think there are more immediate benefits from top-of-the-branch | 18:29 |
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| dims | i'd support getting the infrastructure support for cutting images from release-tag/SHA, getting that uploaded to tarballs.o.o, publishing download location in releases.o.o, and then publishing the same to public repositories. once we have that working well, we can discuss the next step. it will take time/effort to get this first step going inc0 | 18:32 |
| inc0 | dims: release-tag of kolla or nova? | 18:33 |
| inc0 | as in, kolla release or service inside container? | 18:33 |
| dims | a git tag on kolla repository in a stable branch | 18:34 |
| inc0 | so that's my point, that doesn't mean it's possible to reproduce | 18:35 |
| dims | you can have requirements for all the python packages listed somewhere that you use for that specific "release" | 18:36 |
| dims | so when you cut a git tag with a specific SHA, you know what went / will go into that "release" | 18:37 |
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| inc0 | that's going to be there at some point, we want to ship manifesto of versions | 18:37 |
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| dims | so you have the manifest in the branch, then we use the SHA to cut the git tag. | 18:38 |
| inc0 | issue I'm having is that I personally don't think kolla release is meaningful there | 18:38 |
| inc0 | we won't have manifesto in branch. | 18:38 |
| inc0 | we will have manifesto in container | 18:38 |
| inc0 | as manifesto today != manifesto tomorrow | 18:38 |
| dims | i think we are going around in circles. so am going to stop now. in general, we need the builds reproducible as much as possible from a SHA. so what ever information is needed for building the container should be stored for later use. once we have that info in your repo, we can cut a git tag with a specific SHA and then release then upload. | 18:41 |
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| inc0 | dims: so I don't think that's feasable or even possible. As much as we don't hardcode versions in requirements.txt | 18:41 |
| inc0 | we keep version constrains at most | 18:42 |
| inc0 | and for us it's requirements.txt + all apt/yum packages | 18:42 |
| inc0 | so any change in upstream repo means we're impossible to build | 18:42 |
| dims | so i give up then :) | 18:43 |
| inc0 | hmm...just trust us? ;) | 18:43 |
| inc0 | we've spend a lot of time thinking about this | 18:43 |
| dims | inc0 : please write a full proposal and post it? | 18:43 |
| dims | can't trust if i don't know what to agree to... | 18:44 |
| dims | (also the verify part will kick in) | 18:44 |
| inc0 | ok, I'll write a spec because ML will quickluy be noisy | 18:44 |
| inc0 | question is, which repo for spec? Kolla? TC? | 18:45 |
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| dims | inc0 : your call | 18:46 |
| inc0 | I'll do TC then since I've never wrote TC spec;) also because it's really cross-project | 18:47 |
| dims | where ever you feel comfortable | 18:47 |
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| * portdirect reads scrollback | 18:58 | |
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| inc0 | dims dhellmann do we have any resolution about not-publishing-binaries I can refer to? | 19:04 |
| dims | inc0 : portdirect : if you see how we do requirements, we have a bot that pull newer releases runs a basic set of tests and requirements team blesses those specific versions into global requirements and upper constraints. this is how we ensure we have repeatable tests. we don't push a button and pray whatever is in the repo at that time be used. I'd like to see something like that ("manifests"?) that control what gets into the | 19:04 |
| dims | containers. that's one way to get repeatability and reproducability. rather than, oh just try today's container build it may work | 19:04 |
| dims | inc0 : there is no such thing | 19:05 |
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| inc0 | dims: but that's still basket of versions rather than one single hardcoded | 19:05 |
| dims | yes that basket is imporant and should be used to construct the container image | 19:06 |
| inc0 | we couldn't possibly handle having patch like this being autoproposed every single day | 19:06 |
| inc0 | it is, we use requirements and upper-constrains | 19:06 |
| inc0 | inside container | 19:06 |
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| inc0 | but that doesn't mean it will be the same today as it was yesterday | 19:07 |
| inc0 | what we want to do is autogenerate file that will have snapshot of all the versiosn | 19:07 |
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| inc0 | but just as information | 19:07 |
| dims | right, i want that info to be fed into the build process, not as a post artifact | 19:08 |
| dims | sorry i digress, please go ahead with your proposal :) wanted to give some kind of summary to portdirect | 19:08 |
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| inc0 | no worries, it's just, I'm willing to bet money on that even if we create logic around building container from existing manifesto | 19:09 |
| inc0 | that more often than not will not be possible | 19:09 |
| inc0 | all it takes is single maintainer removing single release from repo | 19:09 |
| inc0 | also manifesto for centos will differ from manifesto from ubuntu | 19:10 |
| portdirect | dims: cheers, and thanks for the clarification | 19:10 |
| inc0 | we we'll have to have several of these;) | 19:10 |
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| inc0 | in fact, manifesto for source will differ from one for binary | 19:10 |
| inc0 | so it's several *2;) | 19:10 |
| inc0 | see where I'm getting at? | 19:10 |
| dims | inc0 : it's like glide.lock (https://glide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/glide.lock/), yes, you should have one for each container you wish to publish | 19:11 |
| inc0 | we will, just not in codebase, it will be embedded in container | 19:11 |
| portdirect | i need to get that openstackclient image removed, as its pretty useless (and not used) | 19:11 |
| dims | ++ portdirect | 19:11 |
| inc0 | we don't have openstack client image... | 19:12 |
| inc0 | (or do we? oO) | 19:12 |
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| inc0 | (marvels of having 200+ images...) | 19:13 |
| portdirect | nope - thats why we needed it :D | 19:13 |
| portdirect | but dont anymore... | 19:13 |
| inc0 | and now we're debating of having image per neutron underlaying driver | 19:13 |
| portdirect | ++ to that | 19:14 |
| inc0 | yeah we'll have it...somehow | 19:14 |
| inc0 | but our # of images is already quite...significant | 19:14 |
| portdirect | it would be great to get SamYaple's input as well - as we'd really like to push LOCI images when appropriate | 19:15 |
| inc0 | well, I'll be very curious how you want to handle these non-trivial packages | 19:17 |
| inc0 | as neutron for ODL | 19:17 |
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| portdirect | thats still in flux atm inc0 - but in essense we would not look to support the full images required for something like odl - but simply the neutron server component | 19:38 |
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| portdirect | so we'd probably never want to publish an image for an esoteric back-end for that - but I hope that if ODL(for example) decided to publish their own images that LOCI would be suitable for them to simply build a neutron image that met their needs. | 19:40 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michal Jastrzebski (inc0) proposed openstack/governance master: Resolution regarding container images https://review.openstack.org/469248 | 21:03 |
| inc0 | dims: ^ | 21:03 |
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| dims | inc0 : ack, i am too close to this, so let's wait for feedback from others :) | 21:04 |
| dims | dhellmann : ^^ | 21:04 |
| inc0 | dims: your call, any feedback is appreciated really | 21:04 |
| inc0 | since we're blocked with progressing | 21:05 |
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| inc0 | also let me know if any point needs further clarification | 21:05 |
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| dhellmann | inc0 : I would prefer not to encode lots of implementation details in the governance repo. I'm working on a resolution this afternoon. I should have something to publish tomorrow. | 21:20 |
| inc0 | dhellmann: sure, I just wanted to clarify how we want to execute that | 21:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: guidelines for managing releases of binary artifacts https://review.openstack.org/469265 | 21:46 |
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| openstackgerrit | Doug Hellmann proposed openstack/governance master: guidelines for managing releases of binary artifacts https://review.openstack.org/469265 | 21:56 |
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