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| openstackgerrit | Yuval Brik proposed openstack/governance master: karbor: add api-ref, contributor links https://review.openstack.org/441833 | 07:51 |
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| openstackgerrit | John Garbutt proposed openstack/governance master: Propose Compute Platform Working Group https://review.openstack.org/442387 | 11:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ttx: I am curious about your thoughts on the above idea that was flying around beer conversations ^ | 11:02 |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: thanks! will read | 12:14 |
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| ttx | jbryce, mriedem: I didn't have specific plans for those rooms, I learned about the room layout very recently :) We could definitely schedule some of them with ethercalc... That said they are planned to be populated with round tables, not boardroom style | 12:17 |
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| ttx | I should probably send an email about that | 12:19 |
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| ttx | Done @ http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113459.html | 12:36 |
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| dims_ | mugsie : i was trying to see what we can do outside of governance at the moment, secondary objective was to see what we can do which will be useful to bridge with other container-y stuff going on outside our foundation | 14:32 |
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| mugsie | dims_: ah, OK - out of governence makes more sense. | 14:33 |
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| mugsie | fwiw I dont think designate is going to even bother trying for golang | 14:34 |
| dims_ | mugsie : y, understood. | 14:35 |
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| ihrachys | sdague: hi! would love to see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/438412/ going forward, it blocks a patch for neutron that switches metadata proxy to haproxy reducing memory footprint. | 15:16 |
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| sdague | ihrachys: the upgrade steps in the release notes don't mention the need to replace rootwrap filters | 15:21 |
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| ihrachys | sdague: that's actually silly that we consider those files configuration files | 15:24 |
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| sdague | ihrachys: well, they default to etc | 15:24 |
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| ihrachys | it doesn't mean users are supposed to change them | 15:24 |
| sdague | one can argue that it was a bad decision by rootwrap years ago, but that's what it is | 15:24 |
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| sdague | The whole point of etc is that users are allowed to change stuff there | 15:25 |
| ihrachys | I don't believe proliferating that idea that it's a configuration file helps anyone. reasonable distributions mark them as regular non-config files irrespective of location. | 15:26 |
| sdague | ihrachys: please see, all this discussion multiple times on the development list | 15:26 |
| ihrachys | I know, every time it makes me wonder | 15:26 |
| sdague | I get it's not ideal, rootwrap should never have been designed this way | 15:26 |
| sdague | but it was | 15:26 |
| sdague | getting content out of etc would be great | 15:27 |
| sdague | privsep provides that kind of mechanism | 15:27 |
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| ihrachys | sdague: is /etc/ld.so.cache supposed to be user modifiable? just sayin' | 15:28 |
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| ihrachys | or /etc/aliases.db | 15:28 |
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| ihrachys | it's not like we are the first who did that mistake | 15:28 |
| sdague | ihrachys: really...? you are just going to straw man | 15:28 |
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| ihrachys | it's not a strawman. I just don't believe that we should be that strict about release notes here since we know it's not a config file. | 15:30 |
| sdague | ihrachys: it is a config file, the default, and many distros still install into etc for the specific purpose of making them files admins are supposed to audit | 15:30 |
| ihrachys | should we instead document it for rootwrap library once and for all and avoid that kind of patches in the future? | 15:30 |
| ihrachys | sdague: that's definitely not how neutron team sees it. anyone modifying it could as well go and modify python code. | 15:31 |
| sdague | I get that redhat patched rootwrap to also read files from usr share | 15:31 |
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| sdague | ihrachys: that the neutron team has decided to change the definition of rootwrap on their own regardless of how the system actually works doesn't really change the fact that rootwrap still works this way | 15:31 |
| sdague | and I realize that it makes upgrade a pain | 15:32 |
| sdague | which it makes a pain to real users as well | 15:32 |
| sdague | which is why this check is in place | 15:32 |
| sdague | privsep is a way to dig out of this so not of this stuff is in etc files | 15:32 |
| ihrachys | you say that other projects support the mode where admins just go and change their filters? | 15:32 |
| sdague | ihrachys: I'm done | 15:33 |
| ihrachys | sigh ok | 15:33 |
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| ihrachys | sdague: question: is it possible to make it a global upgrade step for all cycles at least for neutron? so that grenade always copy filters. | 15:43 |
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| sdague | ihrachys: that's fine if we're going to remove the supports upgrade tags from neutron | 15:44 |
| sdague | doing upgrades this way is part of the whole contract folks bought into | 15:45 |
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| ihrachys | ah right, assuming your interpretation of a config file would make it removed indeed | 15:45 |
| sdague | if you want to go have that global conversation again, feel free | 15:45 |
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| sdague | or modify rootwrap so it only reads from /usr/share instead of /etc, as that's pretty strong signalling that all those things are read only | 15:46 |
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| sdague | or convert to privsep in neutron, which is the direction projects should be headed anyway, and really does the thing you want, which is puts the policy into the code | 15:46 |
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| ihrachys | gotcha | 15:47 |
| sdague | but we're not going to change the global interpretation of how this system works in IRC over a patch | 15:47 |
| mugsie | anyone seen issues with hacking and eventlet? | 15:48 |
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| mugsie | designate is hitting https://bugs.launchpad.net/designate/+bug/1534782 | 15:49 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1534782 in Designate "eventlet breaks hacking >= 0.10.2" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Graham Hayes (grahamhayes) | 15:49 |
| mugsie | we ignored it, but now pbr 2 needs a new version of hacking | 15:49 |
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| mugsie | this line causes hacking to hang forever - https://github.com/openstack/designate/blob/master/designate/__init__.py#L24 | 15:50 |
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| sdague | mugsie: I do not know, but that's also the first time in a while I've seen the monkey patch happen in the top level init instead of at the cmd level | 15:53 |
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| mugsie | sdague: yeah, I know | 15:54 |
| mugsie | it was done for a reason, but for the life of me I have no idea why | 15:55 |
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| mugsie | sdague: ah - https://bugs.launchpad.net/designate/+bug/1343526 | 15:56 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1343526 in Designate "Eventlet patching is occurring too late during service startup" [Critical,Fix released] - Assigned to Kiall Mac Innes (kiall) | 15:56 |
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| sdague | mugsie: ah yeh, well most other places moved it to designate/cmd/__init__.py equivalent | 15:57 |
| sdague | I don't know if that would help or not | 15:57 |
| mugsie | we seem to have removed it from there to the __init__ | 15:57 |
| mugsie | let me see if the author remembers why he did it | 15:57 |
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| cdent | notmyname: short answer to your comment on the api guidelines review: dunno, gonna have to seek some input from other folk. But great question, as it helps highlight some of the agenda-ing... | 19:41 |
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| notmyname | cdent: I can see how it's internally self-consistent with the various proposals to install swift v2.33.2 that has the v6.428 api and also featureA v2.32, featureB v1.7, externalA v7.28, etc | 19:42 |
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| notmyname | but that also sounds really painful to test and track and develop the refactoring to support | 19:43 |
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| cdent | I think there's an ideal of "everything is always the same always" | 19:44 |
| cdent | which doesn't have much to do with reality | 19:44 |
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| notmyname | sure, but even eg with swift (which has a v1 api and a strong commitment to not break userland) I've had that problem myself. but i discovered the difference by looking at the reported installed version and realized the added feature I was lookign for asn't available in the reported version | 19:46 |
| notmyname | problem being that I wanted to use a feature and discovered it wasn't avaialble in a public cloud endpoint advertizing itself as "swift" | 19:47 |
| notmyname | so I've seen 2 swift's behave differently, but i was already able to detect that based on the reported version | 19:49 |
| notmyname | i get what the api-wg is doing, and in general it seems liek a good thing | 19:50 |
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| notmyname | but it seems to get really unwieldy when you do anything more than a monolithic api | 19:50 |
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| notmyname | cdent: i need to step away for a bit, but I'll pay attention to anything else that comes in on the patch. thanks | 19:52 |
| cdent | thanks notmyname. I'll try to gather more over the next couple of days | 19:52 |
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| openstackgerrit | Emilien Macchi proposed openstack/governance master: WIP - Propose Deployment Working Group (DWG) https://review.openstack.org/442761 | 20:01 |
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| Rocky_g | notmyname, just wanted to say I wholeheartedly agree with what you said. | 20:05 |
| * cdent waves at Rocky_g | 20:05 | |
| cdent | I reckon the way the guideline have ended up is that they reflect a state of "this is what we'd like to see, but sometimes reality intrudes". As written they currently don't account for local policy and local extensions, which is, in part by design | 20:07 |
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| cdent | If the goal is _true_ interoperability (which is the point of the guidline) then local policy and local extensions aren't a great thing to have. | 20:08 |
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| notmyname | cdent: but then I'd love to see why this proposal is needed over and above the defcore/interop work. | 20:08 |
| cdent | because it provides practical advice on how to do it? | 20:09 |
| cdent | that's all the api-wg guidelines have ever been | 20:09 |
| notmyname | maybe. note I didn't say it's bad. :-) | 20:09 |
| cdent | they aren't governance | 20:09 |
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| notmyname | they aren't governance until they're used to test/enforce governance tags | 20:10 |
| cdent | the fact that governance wants to use the guidelines as the arbiter for a tag is the business of governance | 20:10 |
| notmyname | I've seen "this is just guidelines, not rules" turn into "why are you not doing it the right way" many times in openstack over the years :-) | 20:10 |
| cdent | indeed, me too | 20:11 |
| cdent | I think that's part of the reasoning for the tag to be an 'assert' style tag | 20:11 |
| notmyname | to be honest, the biggest reason I want to be involved in the api-wg is because of governance | 20:11 |
| cdent | which means the project chooses it, not someone else choosing it for the project | 20:11 |
| notmyname | so i think it is very much about governance. the things proposed have a tendancy to become sticks with which to beat people | 20:12 |
| notmyname | so i want to be involved in how those sticks get made ;-) | 20:12 |
| mugsie | cdent: it is effectively chosen for us - I will guarentee that this tag will be a "project navigator" tag | 20:12 |
| cdent | I felt that way initially. I wanted the api-wg to have teeth, but I've stopped fighting that fight, for the time being. | 20:12 |
| * cdent sighs | 20:12 | |
| cdent | I really hate being sort of in the middle on this. The way stability and interoperability are being defined is not how I woud do it, in a green field. | 20:13 |
| cdent | But given the provided definitions... | 20:13 |
| mugsie | cdent: you and me both :) | 20:13 |
| notmyname | cdent: again, to be explicit, I didn't say that the work you're doing with teh api-wg is bad. quite the opposite in fact. some of the guidance is very much needed and nice to have | 20:13 |
| cdent | notmyname: thanks, that's good to hear explicitly, but I wasn't getting the impression that you thought it was bad. you're engaged. that's great. | 20:14 |
| Rocky_g | me three ;-) | 20:14 |
| mugsie | I like 99% of the work from the api wg - I just have issues with microversions | 20:14 |
| Rocky_g | I think we need more engagement from folks who bridge the dev/installed in the real world gap | 20:15 |
| cdent | mugsie: of late that's where a _lot_ of our attention has been, sort of by virtue of their power to cause confusion and contention | 20:15 |
| Rocky_g | Bigly issues for me. | 20:15 |
| notmyname | son why are we weighted down by definitions or whatever? we invented these things. let's change it. the proposed patch defines words, so let's define them the way they need to be defined | 20:15 |
| cdent | Rocky_g: only bigly not huuuge? | 20:15 |
| Rocky_g | OK, Yuuuuuge | 20:16 |
| mugsie | cdent: yeah - I just wish we had someone at the session in ATL who was in favor of them | 20:16 |
| cdent | notmyname: your typo there is great, made me read what you said as foghorn leghorn | 20:17 |
| Rocky_g | You really do need a big signal when you update the api. the microversions work for some, but at some point, you've got to roll them all up and reissue them with a major release so folks can jsue *move* | 20:17 |
| notmyname | heh | 20:17 |
| cdent | mugsie: we did in the afternoon | 20:17 |
| mugsie | ah - that was the one I missed then :/ | 20:17 |
| notmyname | having a separate signal to ops (the release version) and the app dev (the api version) is nice. I like that part | 20:17 |
| cdent | monty and sean and a few others showed up | 20:17 |
| notmyname | Rocky_g: ^ | 20:18 |
| mugsie | It just seems nuts to me, that the likes of gopher cloud is going to have the complete API history of nova, neutron, ironic, etc baked into it | 20:18 |
| Rocky_g | Yup. The API version is *not* the release version | 20:19 |
| notmyname | mugsie: don't forget about the compat matrix of all of those including all the optional subfeatures | 20:20 |
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| mugsie | and local policy + custom API Middlewares | 20:20 |
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| cdent | mugsie and Rocky_g it would be great to your voices on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/421846/ | 20:21 |
| Rocky_g | We are currently banging our head on what in the old days killed established SW companies. Maintaining all the history of their world versus the newbie with no baggae | 20:21 |
| mugsie | and minimum version negotiation | 20:21 |
| mugsie | cdent: I have it open :) | 20:21 |
| cdent | awesome. keep in mind that to some extent the entire point of the thing is to prevent people having custom api middlewares, optional hoopa joops, etc | 20:22 |
| Rocky_g | Yup. | 20:22 |
| cdent | just because some api-wg docs says you shouldn't have that stuff, doesn't mean it won't happen | 20:23 |
| mugsie | cdent: sure - but for example some people disable glance image upload, as it has (had??) no quota support | 20:23 |
| cdent | which will either 404 or 403 or something, yeah? that should be okay (I think) | 20:23 |
| notmyname | cdent: custom api middlewares? like the s3 compat layer for swift? | 20:23 |
| mugsie | and I know a few people restrict the record types that can be created in Desingate | 20:23 |
| cdent | that's the way The Web (tm) is supposed to work | 20:23 |
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| Rocky_g | Here is a problem I have with apis and not just versions, but microversions. Each project goes at its own timeline. even though you need most projects to build a clousd (at least at the 0/1 ring) But the apis should be consistent and versions appropriately across all the needed projects. | 20:24 |
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| mugsie | notmyname: or audit middlewares, or extra auth layers, or $thing | 20:24 |
| notmyname | sorry, my question is if you consider s3 compat for swift as something to be discouraged | 20:24 |
| mugsie | Rocky_g: ok, so bundling the Nova, Neutron and Glance APIs as compatible at a point in time? | 20:25 |
| cdent | notmyname: does something that is well known enough to have a name like "s3 compat layer for swift'" count as custom? | 20:25 |
| cdent | mugsie, Rocky_g assume that was a goal, how would you get there from here? | 20:25 |
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| notmyname | cdent: naming things doesn't seem a high enough bar for removing a "custom" label | 20:25 |
| * mugsie is not sure. | 20:25 | |
| mugsie | I would have to sit down with pen and paper for that one | 20:26 |
| notmyname | meeting time on my end. gotta run | 20:26 |
| Rocky_g | I think we need a strong architecture doc that deomonstrates boundaries, interfaces, public vs private, etc. When we can define where the boundaries *are* we can create the guidelines (rules) of intwraction | 20:26 |
| cdent | notmyname: I was mostly trying to distinguish between joe-basements random middleware and something more than one person might install | 20:26 |
| notmyname | cdent: like transcoding middleware for video storage (that has been done for swift)? I'd hate to discourage that | 20:27 |
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| Rocky_g | So, to get a *consistent* and overarching API definition, you would need to get OpenStack to really define a core as "core" and everything in core follows the core rules | 20:27 |
| cdent | notmyname: common rule of thumb in api-wg guidelines: append "unless you're swift" | 20:27 |
| cdent | :) | 20:27 |
| notmyname | Rocky_g: you and I disagree on that | 20:27 |
| mugsie | Rocky_g: do you think the def-core / inter-op group covers that? | 20:28 |
| notmyname | cdent: nooooo! | 20:28 |
| notmyname | cdent: i'm trying to *stop* that perception. /me failing since 2010 | 20:28 |
| mugsie | notmyname: but ... swift?!?! :P | 20:28 |
| Rocky_g | notmyname, that is where public vs private apis come into play. If the middleware is all internal, then it's the internal api rules. Those tend to be more relaxed. | 20:28 |
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| notmyname | bah! that's my frustration. when bringing up an implementation issue for a guideline/rule proposed for "all of openstack", I'm always told "well, swift is different". maybe the rules are bad! | 20:29 |
| notmyname | /rant | 20:29 |
| notmyname | anyway, really gotta go | 20:29 |
| cdent | notmyname: I was trolling you gently, didn't mean to press that hard | 20:29 |
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| Rocky_g | mugsie, no. DefCore/interOp is llowest common denominator | 20:29 |
| mugsie | Rocky_g: but, could we try and expand it? | 20:29 |
| mugsie | like they are trying with the add-on programs | 20:30 |
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| mugsie | its a half baked idea, off the top of my head | 20:30 |
| Rocky_g | notmyname, problem there is politics. Swift just works. Maybe they have a clues and others should listen? | 20:30 |
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| mugsie | but - defining a core is going to be .... interesting | 20:30 |
| Rocky_g | we could just say "Keystone!" and have done with it ;-) | 20:31 |
| mugsie | and barbican ;) | 20:31 |
| cdent | assume a core was defined | 20:32 |
| cdent | how would get there from where we are now | 20:32 |
| cdent | while preserving _existing_ client code | 20:32 |
| Rocky_g | One thing we lose with big tent, and TC wasn't there when we were incubating, was that with incubation, TC could enforce API consistency | 20:32 |
| cdent | that's the rationale current being used for microversions | 20:32 |
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| mugsie | Rocky_g: they could have. they didnt | 20:32 |
| mugsie | cdent: yeah - existing code is problematic | 20:32 |
| mugsie | short of everyone is going to a new major | 20:33 |
| mugsie | which could take *years* | 20:33 |
| Rocky_g | I don't think they knew they should have. Lots more experience in the community now | 20:33 |
| cdent | right, so the microversion solution to that is to start making the changes, on microversions | 20:33 |
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| cdent | and then forward notify that at time x the minimum will be raised to version X | 20:33 |
| mugsie | that is the process that I would Like to see in real life | 20:33 |
| cdent | that allows independent forward progress across many projects and lots of deployments | 20:33 |
| mugsie | when do tools stop supporting the min version? | 20:34 |
| Rocky_g | Right. Start enforcing consistency standards on microversions. It doesn't get in if it breaks the rules heading towards a unified concept of api | 20:34 |
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| mugsie | curently with micro versions, we push the complexity down the line for dealing with the incompatiblity - either through things liek shade, or hoping that tools like gopher cloud support them | 20:35 |
| Rocky_g | Define how you want the APIs to look in the future, but not what they are. Define internal, external, user, admin. Enforce clarity of role in each rev of an api | 20:35 |
| mugsie | what I honestly think will happen is people will ignore them, use them like major APIs and complain when they make a breaking change in a microversion | 20:36 |
| cdent | mugsie: the hope with each step forward is that less and less of the guts of shade are used (even though still there). when the min version (on the servers) is finally raised, shade evaporates | 20:36 |
| mugsie | and when the microversion stuiff is pointed out, just laugh, and use something else | 20:36 |
| cdent | mugsie: perhaps but that's just people, people will blame whatever the nearest scapegoat is for the foibles of humans | 20:37 |
| mugsie | cdent: some thing still has to the data migration from version 2.10 to version 2.1000 | 20:37 |
| Rocky_g | Convergence is key. If we can get api contract specific and following community standards (you can read that as rules), then at some point, we spin a major version and those that want to remove baggage will migrate. Others will eventually | 20:37 |
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| cdent | mugsie: I'm not sure I'm following you? | 20:37 |
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| mugsie | instead of saying we need to keep our APIs consistant, we say "hey, consumers this stuff will change form under you, go trawl docs for new versions when you do an upgrade" | 20:38 |
| jroll | mugsie: if we could build our APIs the first time, I'd totally agree with you | 20:38 |
| jroll | if we could build them perfect* | 20:39 |
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| mugsie | I write code that creates a server, using the data model in 2.10. I use a lib (shade, client lib, $tools), and it does a negotiation, and decides that the min version is now 2.100, and changes the data for the server to that data model | 20:39 |
| Rocky_g | mugsie, uh, yeah. the version 2.10003 means we have failed to converge. But the othe thing we need to do is to make db schema changes, especially breaking ones, difficult to merge. Lots of explanation and debate why you have to change it that way | 20:39 |
| mugsie | that complexity is now client side | 20:39 |
| cdent | mugsie the complexity is client side when? | 20:40 |
| cdent | (trying to clarify as I'm either missing your point or your missing something about how the clients are supposed to behave in the face of microversions) | 20:41 |
| Rocky_g | shade is client side. | 20:41 |
| mugsie | the data model I wrote to create the server, and when the data model for the server has changed in later microversion | 20:41 |
| mugsie | yeah - shade is client side. it could be home build tools, libcoud, or whatever | 20:41 |
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| mugsie | jroll: I think we should have done more experimental apis | 20:42 |
| jroll | mugsie: experimental means nothing | 20:42 |
| Rocky_g | client has to query for microversion and adjust accordingly. The only way to keep the data model straight is to ensure that any api call is at or below what your cloud is | 20:42 |
| mugsie | play with them for bit, fix them, and move them down to the stable API when they are done | 20:42 |
| * jroll points at years of work to remove the "experimental" nova-baremetal driver | 20:43 | |
| mugsie | jroll: it is about setting expectations | 20:43 |
| Rocky_g | mugsie, ++ | 20:43 |
| jroll | mugsie: sure, I'm not convinced people listen though. we did lots of WARNING THIS IS EXPERIMENTAL DO NOT USE and people still freaked out when we wanted to ditch it | 20:44 |
| Rocky_g | Not including experimental APIs in the common tarboll or packages would have helped. If you want it, you install it separately | 20:44 |
| jroll | because when people want features they'll take anything | 20:44 |
| mugsie | jroll: yeah :( | 20:44 |
| cdent | we have moved a bit into the land of "if we had done a, then we could have done b" | 20:45 |
| cdent | but we didn't do a, so | 20:45 |
| * cdent shrugs | 20:45 | |
| Rocky_g | Ya gotta be hard the first time to get people to listen. Which means you've gotta *make an experimental thing go away and cause pain. | 20:45 |
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| cdent | there's a lot of fear about doing that now | 20:46 |
| cdent | this "late" in the game | 20:46 |
| Rocky_g | Once they know it can vanish in any release, but something else will replace it, or it was a failure and gone, they will be more careful and more ready to transition to the new thing. | 20:46 |
| mugsie | cdent: not really. we could call the current apis stable, and move to a expeirmental model. Then allow for a HATOS style listing of endpoints, to discover what features are on a cloud. Then when we think an API is good to go, it moves into the stable api, and is locked | 20:47 |
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| cdent | mugsie: I've been curious about the "freeze current apis build something next door" idea for quite some time | 20:48 |
| cdent | but it seems to inspire the same kind of fear | 20:48 |
| Rocky_g | In some ways, Defcore/interop is that for user facing, non-admin apis. But with not enough testing to guarantee a contract. | 20:49 |
| mugsie | the fear is there that we will build a feature, but customers wont get it for a long time - until it moves to a stable endpoint | 20:49 |
| mugsie | or they will use the experimental API, and we will endup supporting them (for distros) | 20:49 |
| Rocky_g | And with experimental, it means the customer is signing that they know the feature can change at any release point | 20:50 |
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| Rocky_g | signing a contract | 20:50 |
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| mugsie | Rocky_g: if only engineering was involved at that point :) | 20:51 |
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| Rocky_g | Well, here's the thing....how many of our api changes, or new api are really enduser facing? It's operators who get mose of the new features. | 20:52 |
| Rocky_g | Many of them could be welcomed into the community to tweak these features if it wasn't so hard to stand up a dev environment | 20:53 |
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| Rocky_g | There could be lots of drive by improvements if you could get your enviroment up in half an hour. | 20:53 |
| jroll | Rocky_g: drive by improvements to our APIs? I take it you've never tried to change a nova API | 20:54 |
| jroll | :) | 20:54 |
| Rocky_g | Then you would have a sandbox of customers improving the experimental apis | 20:54 |
| jroll | it involves group discussions, specs, spec reviews, code, rebases because someone else changed the max microversion too, more rebases, eventually you might land it | 20:55 |
| Rocky_g | jroll, keep it to the experimental for the momen ;-) | 20:55 |
| jroll | no space for a drive by | 20:55 |
| * cdent got a devstack up 15 minutes earlier today ;) | 20:55 | |
| jroll | I don't suspect the word 'experimental' changes much about the processes | 20:55 |
| cdent | the difficulty of casual contribution is indeed a yuuuuuge issue | 20:55 |
| cdent | and changing the culture of that is likely very difficult | 20:56 |
| cdent | but also probably critical | 20:56 |
| Rocky_g | cdent, yeah, and did you have to join tthe foundation, get accounts on three systems, generate a couple of keys, install an environment that lets you clone a git repository locally, etc, etc? | 20:56 |
| cdent | Rocky_g: thus the winky | 20:56 |
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| mugsie | cdent: yeah, that difficulty is something that we (in designate) are hit by | 20:57 |
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| Rocky_g | most of the experimental api stuff will be internal code, not the api iteslf. and any individual api will most likely expand for a bit, then stabilize. but the db tablesmight change a lot. | 20:58 |
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| Rocky_g | When I first started in OS, I tried to build an environment that could be autogenerated after the accounts were setup. Never finished, but it would be a great intern project | 20:59 |
| * mugsie -> last meeting of the day :) | 21:00 | |
| mugsie | cdent: I will attempt to summerise what i said ^ on the review | 21:00 |
| cdent | thanks mugsie | 21:00 |
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| mordred | Rocky_g, jroll: incidentally, way back in teh day we had PPAs on launchpad with packages of nova and swift because we needed them for CI (because of how the CI operated back then) - it was named "broken-do-not-use" or something else equally crazy ... and we still received paniced reports from people that it broke their production deployment | 21:09 |
| mordred | that was over 5 years ago when nothing really even worked in the first place | 21:09 |
| mordred | which is not me disagreeing with any of the above - I'd LOVE if we could have safe sandboxy places | 21:10 |
| notmyname | mordred: oh, so someone pointed out that we have service projects (eg swift, nova) on pypi. really old ones. is there any way to remove those? | 21:10 |
| * notmyname is sure you already know that and have an answer | 21:10 | |
| mordred | notmyname: probably. we actually have also talked about actually publishing releases of service projects to pypi too | 21:11 |
| notmyname | mordred: makes sense (if they're python) ;-) | 21:11 |
| mordred | the original decision to not do that was that "pip install swift isn't likely to work without extra effort" - which I think was bad reasoning | 21:11 |
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| mordred | plenty of things need extra config after being pip instlaled :) | 21:11 |
| mordred | notmyname: that said - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/swift does not resolve to anything | 21:12 |
| thingee | karthiks, smcginnis: this patch has been restored for common support matrix approach. It has been noted that cinder's matrix has inverted x/y | 21:12 |
| thingee | karthiks, smcginnis https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330027/3 | 21:12 |
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| smcginnis | thingee: Thanks, I'll take a look. | 21:13 |
| notmyname | mordred: but https://pypi.python.org/pypi/swift/1.0.2 does and so does https://pypi.python.org/pypi/nova | 21:13 |
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| mordred | notmyname: wow. that's extra broken | 21:14 |
| mordred | notmyname: let me bring it up with the release management team - I'd personally rather push a new working thing over top since I yell at people about deleting released things | 21:15 |
| mordred | notmyname: but I definitely agree that we should fix it in one direction or the other | 21:16 |
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| notmyname | mordred: cool, thanks. came up this am for me when someone in irc asked for help with `pip install swift` or something | 21:16 |
| mordred | notmyname: wow. I bet that REALLY didn't work | 21:16 |
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| mordred | notmyname: or, actually, to be fair - I bet it did, but it hadn't been updated in many years | 21:18 |
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| jroll | mordred: heh, not surprised - interesting info thanks :) | 21:34 |
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| EmilienM | jaypipes: thanks a lot for your early review | 22:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | Emilien Macchi proposed openstack/governance master: WIP - Propose Deployment Working Group (DWG) https://review.openstack.org/442761 | 22:17 |
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| sandysan123 | Anyone know what this error is keystoneauth1.exceptions.catalog.EmptyCatalog: The service catalog is empty. | 23:40 |
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| sandysan123 | I am running a python code to get connected to our openstack instance and I get the above one | 23:41 |
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| sandysan123 | I am running a python code to get connected to our openstack instance and I get the following one, keystoneauth1.exceptions.catalog.EmptyCatalog: The service catalog is empty. | 23:44 |
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