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| bswartz | I just can't believe that there are companies distributing postgres-based solutions who wouldn't be willing to do the required heavy lifting if the right people at those companies were made aware that upstream is considering dropping support altogether | 00:08 |
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| dims | bswartz : ++ we need to get the word out | 00:11 |
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| thingee | bswartz: I can/can't believe there are companies profiting of OpenStack LTS instead of contributing to the upstream cause. | 01:09 |
| * thingee ducks | 01:09 | |
| bswartz | thingee that's an excellent point | 01:10 |
| bswartz | I've always suspected that the reason upstream LTS never went anywhere is because it's how downstream makes money | 01:10 |
| bswartz | I have the exact same complaint about deployment tools | 01:11 |
| thingee | bswartz: I've had numerous reps from companies come to me at the ptg saying they were interested in helping with this cause. Too bad their board reps didn't speak up when we last talked about it in the joint tc/board meeting | 01:12 |
| bswartz | basically every place the distros have decided to "add value" becomes fragmented upstream because there is no cooperation | 01:12 |
| thingee | "how do we force the community to support older versions..." ... ha, you don't have to force the community to. you have to help the community to | 01:12 |
| thingee | middle management is funny | 01:13 |
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| bswartz | yep | 01:13 |
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| mordred | bswartz, dims, thingee: I agree with dims about needing to get the word out - but I also think since we do have 2 known situations with vendors who do participate, that we need a really clear 'why' attached - otherwise we're going to get "OpenStack Devs just do whatever" | 01:15 |
| thingee | mordred: I haven't read the comment's from sdague's proposal review closely. Has anyone asked the known vendors who were screaming no on the proposal? | 01:17 |
| thingee | mordred: or are none of them even aware of this discussion | 01:17 |
| bswartz | mordred: I think the desired outcome is clear -- someone who cares about pg shows up and does all the work to keep it stable -- and this whole debate feels like an exercise is trying to make that happen | 01:17 |
| thingee | bswartz: that's why I was entertaining the discussion anyways | 01:17 |
| mordred | thingee: they're all aware | 01:18 |
| thingee | mordred: so we're just waiting for an answer of the why? | 01:18 |
| mordred | bswartz: that's not why I'm pushing it | 01:18 |
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| mordred | bswartz: which is why I think we need a much clearer "why" written down and agreed to - becuase I believe many of us are having different discussions | 01:19 |
| thingee | mordred: I think you're ready for us to be opinioned on using mysql exclusive? | 01:19 |
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| mordred | thingee: but not because maintaining postgres is extra work or a burden on the gate or devs or anything like that - rather because if we choose _a_ db backend we can depend on characteristics of that backend to work in our advantage | 01:20 |
| mordred | at the moment, any advanced db related thigns are all things we put squarely on the shoulders of the deployers/operators | 01:20 |
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| thingee | mordred: earlier I referenced the precedent decision of picking a dlm | 01:21 |
| mordred | but there is no reason we can't make their lives better and the service robust - but once you go into that space, the differences between the engines are GIANT | 01:21 |
| bswartz | mordred: if we achieve that goal (blessing mysql as the one and only DB backend) then we can throw oslo.db in the garbage right? | 01:21 |
| thingee | mordred: I was wondering why that decision can't be used here as well. | 01:21 |
| mordred | bswartz: probably not in the immediate future - but it can actually be the place where we grow some legit advanced things | 01:21 |
| mordred | thingee: because the differences between a kvs/dlm and the primitives it needs to expose vs. the conceptual differences in how one writes database apps for mysql vs. postgres are much much larger | 01:22 |
| mordred | and it's getting to the point where we can make an actual conceptual design that takes into account things like how to roll DDL to a db cluster in a rolling manner or replication lag on an async read slave - or making smarter decisions on whether a DDL statement is going to result in downtime or not | 01:23 |
| mordred | each of those things are _entirely_ different across rdbmses | 01:24 |
| mordred | but that's a longer topic than me spweing into irc when I should be afking to go to dinner ... so I'll try to write something out in an organized fashion | 01:24 |
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| clarkb | also aiui nothing hsa happened with dlms? | 01:25 |
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| bswartz | clarkb: it's moving slowly but tooz is getting adopted here and there | 01:26 |
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| bswartz | IMO there are very substantial differences between the competing DLMs | 01:26 |
| thingee | clarkb: both cinder and manilla have added support for tooz | 01:26 |
| clarkb | bswartz: yes there are (its why infra doesn't bother supporting all the things and just used zk), but I think compared to rdbmses they are significiantly less different :) | 01:27 |
| thingee | clarkb: but review support/testing for other dlms in tooz is moving quite slow | 01:27 |
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| bswartz | +1 for zookeeper | 01:27 |
| mordred | bswartz: it is so far working out nicely for us | 01:27 |
| bswartz | IIRC the Redhat distro uses etcd not zk | 01:27 |
| thingee | clarkb: I don't think anyone is arguing that aspect that they aren't different in implementations. I think it was just the precedent being set for us being opinionated on A implementation | 01:28 |
| clarkb | thingee: oh neat there is indeed cinder + zk support in devstack | 01:28 |
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| thingee | yeah thanks to dims for adding zk + devstack support | 01:28 |
| clarkb | however I don't think we run it in any of the testing infrastructure | 01:29 |
| clarkb | (just based on grepping for zookeeper as an enabled service) | 01:29 |
| thingee | clarkb: you're correct, that's still missing | 01:29 |
| bswartz | zk gets so much hate for it's java-ness | 01:29 |
| thingee | clarkb: which reminds me I need to ping someone in cinder about where that is. SpamapS was asking about it | 01:30 |
| clarkb | thingee: should be as simple as enabling it in a job and hoping that the memory issues we've had don't get worse by adding another service :) | 01:30 |
| thingee | done | 01:30 |
| thingee | and by done I mean asking someone else | 01:30 |
| thingee | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 01:31 |
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| rabel_b1 | hi everyone, is it possible to change the branch of a change in gerrit? and how would i do this? simply by rebasing it? | 10:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Thierry Carrez proposed openstack/governance master: Add os-traits project under nova governance https://review.openstack.org/437167 | 10:54 |
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| ttx | rabel_b1: yes you should rebase it, then you need to pass the branch name as an argument to git review | 10:56 |
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| ttx | example with stable branches @ https://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/stable-branches.html#proposing-fixes | 10:58 |
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| rabel_b1 | ttx: thanks | 10:59 |
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| d0ugal | Is there a way in YAQL to batch lists? i.e. I want to turn [1,2,3,4,5,6] into [[1,2],[3,4],[5,6]] - batches of 2. | 12:00 |
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| d0ugal | it looks like splitWhere might be close, if I can figure out the correct predicate... | 12:03 |
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| dims | sdague : super-powers for release team :) | 13:02 |
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| sdague | dims: yes | 13:03 |
| sdague | a lot of time is lost having to explain some of these things, and chasing folks | 13:03 |
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| sdague | vs. "we fixed it for you' | 13:03 |
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| dims | sdague : i would not mind :) we do have gerrit admins with super powers, right? | 13:04 |
| sdague | dims: infra can elevate themselves, but they don't like to, because it's kind of unexpected | 13:05 |
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| sdague | however, I honestly think we should probably float release super powers formally | 13:06 |
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| dims | agree. let's see what others think | 13:06 |
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| dims | need to keep the scope very narrow and limited though. "we fixed python3 for you" would be clearly out of scope :) | 13:08 |
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| sdague | sure, the point isn't to fix all the things. It's that there are sets of things like this pbr bump, that if the release team had these powers, we'd be done by now | 13:09 |
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| jroll | ++ | 13:42 |
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| dhellmann | sdague : thinking more about the patch to remove the classifier-based python3 logic from devstack, I'm worried it's premature. It looks like it's going to break a bunch of jobs that are working at this point. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439108/ | 13:48 |
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| dhellmann | I could probably reduce the logic to saying that if only python 2 is mentioned, it shouldn't use python3, but I'm not sure we can safely remove all of it | 13:49 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: what jobs will break with that? | 13:51 |
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| dhellmann | sdague : any job that isn't explicitly telling devstack to install the app under test with 3 (there are a handful). There's also something failing on that patch itself, which I assumed was related but I haven't dug into it. | 13:52 |
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| dhellmann | sdague : I found fuxi, heat, ironic, keystone, neutron-lbaas, & octavia setting the flag to turn on py3 but without anything in their devstack plugin to install themselves that way | 13:53 |
| dhellmann | I have patches ready to go, but it makes me concerned I missed something | 13:54 |
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| jroll | dhellmann: fwiw, I wasn't aware we needed to install the service in a special way to get py3 | 13:55 |
| jroll | it wasn't an intentional thing | 13:55 |
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| dhellmann | jroll : well, this is part of changing that | 13:58 |
| dhellmann | I was hoping to be able to do it transparently, but I'm less confident that it'll work | 13:59 |
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| jroll | dhellmann: ah, well, you didn't miss anything we did intentionally :) | 13:59 |
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| dhellmann | jroll : if we go ahead, the change you would need is https://review.openstack.org/439605 | 14:00 |
| jroll | dhellmann: aha, thanks! should we WIP that for now? | 14:01 |
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| dhellmann | jroll : it should have a depends-on with the thing we're trying to figure out if we're going to land | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | but yeah, it doesn't need to be reviewed for now | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | not that it would hurt to land it either way | 14:03 |
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| jroll | ah, good point | 14:04 |
| jroll | cool, ty | 14:04 |
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| mtreinish | tonyb: you also missed subunit2sql :/ : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439649/ | 15:21 |
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| mordred | clarkb: I wonder how much havoc would be caused by us running the nodepool/zuul integration tests on the devstack configured to use zk for cinder? | 15:34 |
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| * smcginnis is curious too | 15:34 | |
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| dims | ativelkov : ping about yaql | 16:34 |
| dims | ativelkov : can you please make a release? with that pbr change | 16:34 |
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| dims | fungi : requestsexceptions needs a release with the pbr change i believe. pretty please | 16:36 |
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| fungi | dims: i'm on my way out with visiting family, so hoping mordred or jeblair can tag a 1.2.0 release for it. i don't want to "tag and dash" as it were | 16:37 |
| dims | ack fungi thanks. have fun | 16:37 |
| dims | mordred : jeblair : when you get a chance please ^ | 16:37 |
| fungi | though i guess it's just that one change since the last release, can't be too disruptive | 16:37 |
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| dims | mordred : jeblair : fungi : zuul v3 thread on kubernetes land - https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!msg/kubernetes-sig-testing/m9jzUb-HLfg/3G0zUHJxAgAJ - one of you have some feedback i can pass along or can chime in there? | 16:56 |
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| openstackgerrit | Michael Johnson proposed openstack/governance master: Add octavia git repos for pike https://review.openstack.org/439798 | 19:37 |
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| gpj89 | Hello all, Sorry to ask this naive question, just want to confirm is it necessary to through upstream training before I can start contributing? How can I find a mentor ? | 20:11 |
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| clarkb | gpj89: it is not necessary. You may find it helpful but it isn't a requirement | 20:13 |
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| gpj89 | clarkb: thanks ! any idea on how can I find a mentor ? | 20:14 |
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| clarkb | gpj89: no, I'm not currently aware of who is volunteering time to mentor new contributors. That said if you are interested in a specific project or two, I would expect that those project PTLs could point you in the right direction | 20:15 |
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| gpj89 | clarkb: thank you for pointing me to right direction ! Appreciate that ! | 20:16 |
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| jamielennox | sigmavirus: hey, is there a possibility you could do a 1.0a5 tag on github3.py? | 20:28 |
| sigmavirus | jamielennox: at what sha? | 20:28 |
| jamielennox | we're relying on some newer features and installing from develop is causing problems | 20:28 |
| sigmavirus | what problems? | 20:28 |
| jamielennox | sigmavirus: i'm fine with the head develop | 20:28 |
| sigmavirus | jamielennox: there are some significant changes on develop right now | 20:29 |
| jamielennox | sigmavirus: so it turns out pip install -U . doesn't respect -e in requirements.txt files | 20:29 |
| sigmavirus | splitting the User object up into a few different ones for clarity | 20:29 |
| sigmavirus | Others like that will be landing shortly | 20:29 |
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| jamielennox | which is to say we can retool some stuff to make it work but it had been a while since a last 1.0a release and you might have been up for anothre | 20:29 |
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| sigmavirus | Oh I can do it | 20:29 |
| sigmavirus | I'm just not convinced you want the head of develop | 20:29 |
| sigmavirus | also, I don't want to release anything with the Empty nonsense | 20:30 |
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| jamielennox | so https://github.com/sigmavirus24/github3.py/commit/8e9ca0056b8fed956b66dafb5398757cd8d8bed9 and the status stuff is why we're on develop not 1.0a4 | 20:30 |
| sigmavirus | Yeah I really don't want to release anything with Empty | 20:31 |
| sigmavirus | If you can handle the User split up, then I'll make a new one | 20:31 |
| sigmavirus | I'll do it maybe tonight or tomorrow | 20:31 |
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| jamielennox | sigmavirus: i haven't seen empty yet, and the user stuff is fine | 20:36 |
| jamielennox | sigmavirus: if you can find a place that makes sense that would be appreciated! | 20:36 |
| sigmavirus | jamielennox: see also http://www.coglib.com/~icordasc/blog/2017/01/api-client-design-decisions.html | 20:36 |
| jamielennox | otherwise it's not an unsolvable problem, just a pip oddity | 20:37 |
| sigmavirus | But if you were installing from develop for that long, Empty was there, you just never saw it =) | 20:37 |
| sigmavirus | I'm going to go the way of exceptions btw | 20:37 |
| sigmavirus | That blog post is a little out of date | 20:37 |
| jamielennox | sigmavirus: i'm an exception fan, but i'll have a proper read through of that | 20:39 |
| sigmavirus | jamielennox: keep in mind that 404s are not that exceptional in GitHub's API | 20:40 |
| sigmavirus | they're actually used for all kinds of things =/ | 20:40 |
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| jamielennox | sigmavirus: depends how that translates into your library, if you are doing a user get then IMO a 404 is an exception | 20:40 |
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| sigmavirus | jamielennox: right, so that's what's going to happen :) | 20:42 |
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| mtreinish | tonyb: you also missed elastic-recheck: http://logs.openstack.org/62/439562/1/check/gate-elastic-recheck-pep8-ubuntu-xenial/36da9a0/console.html#_2017-03-01_12_21_34_605717 | 20:49 |
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| mtreinish | tonyb: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439844/ | 20:53 |
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| larsks | briancurtin: when you have the chance, curious if https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437588/ looks better now. | 21:00 |
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| briancurtin | larsks: i’ll take a look at this first thing in the morning tomorrow and let you know | 21:04 |
| larsks | briancurtin: awesome, thanks. | 21:04 |
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| tonyb | mtreinish: Sorry. I isn't in g-r so I didn't see it yesterday. | 21:36 |
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| mtreinish | tonyb: no worries. It was a simple fix | 21:38 |
| mtreinish | tonyb: that's why everything was so out of date on those 2 anyway, because they don't follow g-r | 21:38 |
| tonyb | mtreinish: Do you want me to fix that? | 21:39 |
| mtreinish | tonyb: have them follow g-r? | 21:39 |
| mtreinish | there's no reason to, they're not things that will get installed with openstack. They're standalone things | 21:39 |
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| tonyb | mtreinish: Actually you're right that's pointless. Hopefully by the end of the cycle thete won't be anymore g-r updates anyway | 21:40 |
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| fungi | dims: jeblair: mordred: regarding the "proven success stories from projects other than openstack" comment at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/kubernetes-sig-testing/m9jzUb-HLfg/3G0zUHJxAgAJ maybe it would help to link https://integration.wikimedia.org/zuul/ or https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Continuous_integration/Zuul | 22:47 |
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| dims | fungi : ack, good one. | 22:47 |
| fungi | wikipedia is, after all, a pretty big success ;) | 22:47 |
| dims | do they use gerrit too? | 22:48 |
| fungi | indeed they do | 22:48 |
| fungi | dims: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/ | 22:48 |
| dims | cool. another one, does anyone run zuul against github? | 22:49 |
| clarkb | dims: yes the people that write the github patch series apparently do | 22:49 |
| clarkb | as does SpamapS I think | 22:49 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dean Troyer proposed openstack/governance master: Add Golang CTI (WIP) https://review.openstack.org/410355 | 22:50 |
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| fungi | dims: "The fine folks at Gooddata wrote a | 22:50 |
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| fungi | set of patches adding support for Github which they have been using for a while." http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/113065.html | 22:51 |
| openstackgerrit | Dean Troyer proposed openstack/governance master: Add Golang CTI https://review.openstack.org/410355 | 22:51 |
| SpamapS | dims: http://bonnyci.org/ <-- we use the github patches to run our closed beta (which has 0 users) | 22:51 |
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| * clarkb feels he also has to note that we don't really force people to use zuul either. Lots of projects like eg murano apparently do their testing out of band/third part | 22:52 | |
| clarkb | but zuul is there if yo uwant to use it | 22:52 |
| clarkb | I guess if oy uwant to be part of the integrated gate thats your choice | 22:52 |
| dims | right clarkb | 22:52 |
| dims | thanks SpamapS and fungi | 22:52 |
| dims | i'll try to get their attention after the k8s release scramble dies down somewhat | 22:53 |
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| SpamapS | fungi: looks like the kubernetes community is developing "Prow" to try and duplicate Zuul's magic | 22:53 |
| SpamapS | Haven't looked at how closely it's mirrored | 22:53 |
| SpamapS | but that makes me sad | 22:53 |
| SpamapS | moar duplication of effort | 22:53 |
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| fungi | well, it's probably written in go | 22:54 |
| SpamapS | Yep | 22:54 |
| fungi | they won't want to use things written in python because... reasons | 22:54 |
| SpamapS | because language is the key indicator of usefulness. | 22:54 |
| SpamapS | "Pretty OpenStackish" ... | 22:54 |
| SpamapS | is how they describe Zuul | 22:54 |
| SpamapS | which sums up "Python icky" | 22:54 |
| dtroyer | TBF, we feel the same way about languages around here pretty much | 22:55 |
| fungi | well, having successfull programs written in a language is a key indicator of that language's usefulness, and so if a primary goal is to make go seem more successful they need to have lots of things written in it | 22:55 |
| fungi | we might be a little more zealous too if we were the psf | 22:55 |
| clarkb | SpamapS: not just "they" but former openstacker at HP :) | 22:56 |
| clarkb | dtroyer: fwiw infra doesn't. We do host things in python bash go java lisp and so forth. EG zuul doesn't care | 22:57 |
| * fungi wonders how long it will be before google insists gerrit be written in yet a third language too | 22:58 | |
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| mriedem | rcrit: hey did you ever get around to testing out the nova vendordata v2 stuff? | 22:59 |
| dtroyer | clarkb: and I am glad for that. For example, the golang support for deps and mirroring is likely to be written in *gasp* Go. Not everyone takes a pragmatic view of these things however… | 22:59 |
| mriedem | i thought you had a project somewhere using that | 22:59 |
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| clarkb | dtroyer: oh nodejs too | 22:59 |
| clarkb | dtroyer: and the mirroring things are written in js there :) | 22:59 |
| rcrit | mriedem, yes, works for me | 22:59 |
| mriedem | rcrit: cool. at the ptg we talked about deprecating file injection in the nova api and were wondering if the vendordata v2 stuff was being adopted and if so how it was going | 23:00 |
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| rcrit | it is working out fairly nicely. I'm not using file injection anymore other than via cloud-init | 23:01 |
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| mriedem | rcrit: great | 23:02 |
| mriedem | thanks for the info | 23:02 |
| rcrit | mriedem, thanks for following up | 23:03 |
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| SpamapS | dims: you typing up a reply btw? I'm about to if you aren't. :) | 23:06 |
| dims | SpamapS : go for it | 23:06 |
| SpamapS | dims: cool ty | 23:06 |
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| SpamapS | https://github.com/kubernetes/test-infra/tree/master/prow <-- prow | 23:13 |
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