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| orangespark | what is openstack | 06:25 |
|---|---|---|
| orangespark | how to use it | 06:25 |
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| orangespark | what is openstack | 07:28 |
| orangespark | how to use it | 07:28 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Add projects to the Governance Repository https://review.openstack.org/348077 | 08:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Places neutron docs references with corrected repositories https://review.openstack.org/354121 | 09:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/governance: Update Security PTL email address https://review.openstack.org/357133 | 09:01 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Precise tests on OSIC provider are currently failing, please stop your checks until the issue is resolved. | 11:16 | |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: DSVM jobs on OSIC currently failing because of IP collisions, fix is in the gate - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357764/ - please hold rechecks until merged | 11:21 | |
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| amrith | thx annegentle, sorry it took longer than it should've | 11:35 |
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| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: OSIC has burned through the problematic IP range with failures, things should be back to normal now. | 11:49 | |
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| amrith | yo mugsie ... question for you on your change api-ref ... specifically the one in trove https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357926/1 but also in other projects it looks like. | 14:37 |
| mugsie | amrith: I replied :) | 14:37 |
| amrith | that version check looks questionable to me. | 14:37 |
| amrith | oh, great. thx | 14:37 |
| mugsie | np | 14:37 |
| mugsie | (it is pretty much the exact same patch file applied to all the repos) | 14:38 |
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| amrith | hmm | 14:39 |
| amrith | so the fix went into 0.5.0? | 14:39 |
| mugsie | we do'nt know yet | 14:39 |
| mugsie | it have not been released | 14:39 |
| amrith | then why is MINOR 9? | 14:39 |
| mugsie | because it could be 1.0 or 0.10 | 14:40 |
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| mugsie | I think it is going to be 1.0, but I did not know, and wanted to leave space for bug fix changes | 14:40 |
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| amrith | this is a python library? https://pypi.python.org/pypi/openstackdocstheme/1.4.0 | 14:41 |
| amrith | must be a no | 14:41 |
| amrith | but that's where my confusion came from | 14:41 |
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| mugsie | yeah, we are inspecting the version of os-api-ref | 14:42 |
| amrith | https://pypi.python.org/pypi/os-api-ref/0.1.0 | 14:42 |
| amrith | much obliged, thanks! | 14:42 |
| mugsie | its on 0.4.0 right now | 14:42 |
| amrith | latest there 0.4.0 | 14:42 |
| mugsie | yeah | 14:42 |
| amrith | poifecto | 14:42 |
| mugsie | its not ideal, but I want to have this done before lib freeze | 14:43 |
| amrith | so 0.5.0 may have the fix | 14:43 |
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| amrith | i.e. next version | 14:43 |
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| mugsie | may, but I dont think sdague wanted it to do it that way. if he does, I can do an update to droip minor version to 5 | 14:44 |
| amrith | hmm, I guess I'm still not clear then. | 14:44 |
| mugsie | I think the 1.x stream will be openstackdocstheme, and 0.x will be oslosphinx | 14:44 |
| amrith | should we wait till we know | 14:44 |
| jroll | couldn't you just do: if (major, minor) > (CUT_OVER_MAJOR, CUT_OVER_MINOR)? | 14:45 |
| mugsie | we can skip the minoir version if we have to | 14:45 |
| mugsie | jroll: yeah - we could | 14:45 |
| amrith | jroll, the issue is what major and minor would be | 14:45 |
| amrith | sorry MAJOR and MINOR | 14:45 |
| mugsie | thats why i sent out an email asking for comments on the WIP patch :) | 14:45 |
| amrith | if os_api_ref is now 0.4.0 and the next wold be 0.5.0 | 14:45 |
| amrith | then I'd assume MINOR would be 5 | 14:45 |
| amrith | YOU SENT EMAIL? Damnit I've got to find out what is going on with my ML email ... | 14:46 |
| mugsie | amrith: you using office365 ? | 14:46 |
| jroll | amrith: right, so you're worried CUT_OVER_* is incorrect? | 14:46 |
| mugsie | if you are, it blackholes nearly all my ML's | 14:46 |
| amrith | mugsie, of course, doesn't everyone? I use Office 365 or Office 24x7 | 14:47 |
| amrith | jroll, yes, I think MINOR should be 5 | 14:47 |
| amrith | for the present time | 14:47 |
| jroll | "doesn't everyone" don't wish that on me! | 14:47 |
| jroll | amrith: okay, I was just looking at the comments :) | 14:47 |
| amrith | jroll, I wish you use Office365, I wish, I wish, I wish | 14:47 |
| mugsie | amrith: well, no it should not be 5 - we need to allow for intrim bug fix releases | 14:47 |
| jroll | so | 14:47 |
| jroll | maybe a better way is to inspect api_ref directly? | 14:48 |
| jroll | add a module level variable NEW_THEME=True or something | 14:48 |
| jroll | and then if os_api_ref.NEW_THEME: do the new thing | 14:48 |
| amrith | mugsie, what was the email subject, or give me a link on markmail | 14:48 |
| jroll | then you don't need to care about versions :) | 14:48 |
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| mugsie | amrith: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/100983.html | 14:48 |
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| amrith | nothing even in my junk items, not in spam, looks like you've been expunged mugsie sorry about that. | 14:49 |
| amrith | let me read the thread | 14:49 |
| * mugsie cries | 14:50 | |
| jroll | mugsie: want me to post that solution on the list or is irc sufficient? :) | 14:50 |
| mugsie | I feel so alone :) | 14:50 |
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| mugsie | jroll: IRC is fine | 14:50 |
| jroll | cool | 14:50 |
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| mugsie | I will go update the integration patch to have it | 14:50 |
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| jroll | woot, I did something useful today \o/ | 14:50 |
| mugsie | come on gertty, sync the changes | 14:51 |
| * amrith tries to find jroll's useful thing today. comes up empty handed. | 14:52 | |
| jroll | >.> | 14:52 |
| amrith | oh, you made mugsie cry | 14:52 |
| amrith | good, +1 | 14:52 |
| mugsie | amrith: that was you, of course | 14:52 |
| mugsie | dleeting my email | 14:52 |
| * amrith pats mugsie on the head and consoles him. jroll does that to everyone ... | 14:52 | |
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| mugsie | :D | 14:53 |
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| amrith | so where's jroll going to put this change? | 14:55 |
| jroll | oh, want me to submit something? | 14:55 |
| openstackgerrit | Pradeep Kilambi proposed openstack/governance: projects/puppet: add puppet-panko https://review.openstack.org/353690 | 14:55 |
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| mugsie | i got it | 14:55 |
| jroll | I guess you'd need if hasattr(os_api_ref, 'NEW_THEME') | 14:55 |
| jroll | cool, thanks mugsie | 14:55 |
| mugsie | yup | 14:55 |
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| amrith | so when there's a newer theme, what would that be NEWER_THEME? why don't we just create NEW_THEME=1.0 and then he could check for the version of NEW_THEME? | 14:58 |
| * amrith runs away before mugsie can hit him | 14:58 | |
| jroll | I assume we'll never need to do a transition like this again | 14:58 |
| mugsie | Â i certainly hope so | 14:58 |
| jroll | for theme v2 you'd just upgrade os-api-ref, you wouldn't need to fall back to a different library | 14:59 |
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| * amrith laughs hysterically and says, 'famous last words' and keeps running | 14:59 | |
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| amrith | mugsie, you'll push a new change set right. will wait for that. thx mate! | 15:01 |
| mugsie | np | 15:01 |
| amrith | is it beer time yet? | 15:01 |
| mugsie | 2 more hours | 15:01 |
| mugsie | and I will be collecting more in barcellona ;) | 15:02 |
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| jroll | it's friday, beer time is at noon :P | 15:03 |
| mugsie | oh, so 4 hours ago :) | 15:04 |
| mugsie | i wish :( | 15:04 |
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| amrith | jroll for president! | 15:06 |
| jroll | amrith: oh, are you hiring a new president over there? ;) | 15:07 |
| cdent | jroll: reject corporate hegemony, no vendor drivers! | 15:07 |
| jroll | cdent: ha! if only :) | 15:08 |
| jroll | cdent: if it makes you feel better, some of those vendor drivers help provide a more secure deployment :) | 15:08 |
| cdent | isn't there, like, standards and stuff? | 15:08 |
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| jroll | yes! | 15:08 |
| jroll | those standards are 30 years old and the lowest common denominator | 15:09 |
| cdent | feh | 15:09 |
| mugsie | jroll: we actually generate http://docs.openstack.org/developer/designate/support-matrix.html from https://github.com/openstack/designate/blob/master/doc/source/support-matrix.ini | 15:09 |
| cdent | this is why we can't have nice things | 15:09 |
| jroll | cdent: our standards are pxe and ipmi and it makes me hate everything | 15:09 |
| jroll | yep | 15:09 |
| mugsie | we are planning on having the plugin loader log a load of red when a driver with a bad grade is loaded | 15:10 |
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| mugsie | but that could easily be a fail to load | 15:10 |
| jroll | cdent: that said, redfish is a new standard that looks promising, but isn't widely implemented, and turns out people want to use ironic for 10 year old gear. so, maybe 10-15 years we can kill vendor drivers. sigh. | 15:10 |
| cdent | that mere days in enterprise time | 15:11 |
| jroll | mugsie: neat! I may steal some of that :) | 15:11 |
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| annegentle | oo expunged, nice amrith | 15:15 |
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| amrith | annegentle, g'morning. api-ref stuff landed! thanks for your help | 15:19 |
| annegentle | amrith so excited! | 15:19 |
| amrith | yes, now making the changes to the documentation that was brought up in reviews. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357792/ | 15:20 |
| * annegentle sends amrith champagne | 15:20 | |
| annegentle | ok not really | 15:20 |
| annegentle | amrith nice. you're hooked right? :) | 15:20 |
| amrith | on chamgagne, yup | 15:20 |
| amrith | please don't send it UPS. I have a disagreement with the UPS driver who delivers stuff at home. It is amazing how many times they can run over a package before delivering it now ... | 15:21 |
| mugsie | amrith: you were just being your usual charming self I assume? | 15:21 |
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| amrith | no mugsie, extra special for the UPS driver. | 15:21 |
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| amrith | it started after I tweeted something about UPS losing my UPS ... literally, they lost it. a 40lb box, just lost ... | 15:24 |
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| mugsie | jroll: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322430/9/os_api_ref/__init__.py + https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357925/2/api-ref/source/conf.py what you were thinking? | 15:47 |
| mugsie | amrith: happier about ^ ? | 15:48 |
| amrith | mugsie, will look now | 15:49 |
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| amrith | mugsie, https://docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html#getattr says it would throw an exception if a default wasn't specified. | 15:51 |
| amrith | I may be way off base, so don't laugh too loudly if I am | 15:51 |
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| amrith | oh, never mind | 15:52 |
| amrith | the default is oslosphinx | 15:52 |
| mugsie | heh - just replied with that :) | 15:53 |
| mugsie | I am going to pull the trigger, and spam everyone again then :) | 15:53 |
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| amrith | mugsie, will you be sending email again? just so you know, I may not get it. So when you send email to the ML, would you send me an email to say you sent an email? and I may not get that so to be doubly sure, would you send me an email to say you sent me an email that you sent an email to the ML. I think that should cover all eventualities. | 15:55 |
| mugsie | amrith: I will try :) | 15:55 |
| amrith | I didn't get that, what? | 15:55 |
| amrith | :> | 15:55 |
| mugsie | I might send you a carrier pidgon as well, to be sure | 15:55 |
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| amrith | nice, just don't send the carrier pigeon by UPS. They run over all my packages and I think pigeons don't like that (normally). | 15:56 |
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| jroll | mugsie: yeah, lgtm | 16:03 |
| jroll | thanks! | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: ttx have concerns about the Barbican as required proposal. Perhaps the difficulties it causes WRT testing without a real service are indicative of a design flaw? Perhaps that sort of project doesn't *work* as a stand-alone entity or plugin? | 19:15 |
| sdague | jgriffith: so, we have a wedged fixed key manager for testing | 19:16 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: not sure I follow what you're suggesting there? | 19:17 |
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| sdague | jgriffith: I'm saying that if we want to test actual ecrypted features, we should use a real key manager, and the fact that we think we're testing that stuff with effectively a mocked key manager (which we are doing today) is weird | 19:18 |
| jgriffith | sdague: you just mean reiterating the problem that the fixed manager for testing is "broken" | 19:18 |
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| sdague | it's kind of like saying that it's effective to test with the fake_virt driver | 19:18 |
| jgriffith | sdague: I don't disagree with your statement there at all | 19:18 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: same as I'd say testing Block without Cinder is stupid... | 19:19 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: I'm only questioning the required project/service piece of the discussion | 19:19 |
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| sdague | I'm also fine deleting the test shim and not testing any of the encryption features if we don't have barbican in the mix | 19:19 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: which seems like a better first step to me | 19:19 |
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| sdague | jgriffith: well... the question is, is encrypted storage for projects a thing we believe is sane defaults | 19:20 |
| jgriffith | sdague: but I wanted to actually get more insight from you as opposed to just derailing effort :) | 19:20 |
| sdague | and, I tend to believe that it is | 19:20 |
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| sdague | that it's actually largely irresponsible to have a multi tenant environment without it | 19:20 |
| jgriffith | sdague: Not sure I agree... it's all about context | 19:20 |
| jgriffith | sdague: and reality of adoption | 19:20 |
| sdague | well, we can disagree on that point then :) | 19:21 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: if we decide we're a public cloud entity and that's our main mission... maybe i can see it. Also if there was more adoption of Barbican and using it's features I'd get that too | 19:21 |
| sdague | but in the era of IT security that we are in, I think encrypted data at rest by default is the responsible thing to do | 19:21 |
| jgriffith | sdague: haha... ok, we'll agree to disagree | 19:22 |
| jgriffith | sdague: so that statement brings me to the next question I had :) | 19:22 |
| jgriffith | sdague: encryption at rest is already provides by MOST disk drives on their own | 19:22 |
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| sdague | jgriffith: not cross tenant | 19:22 |
| sdague | if you put 2 tenants on 1 disk | 19:23 |
| jgriffith | sdague: maybe we're talking different encyrption at rest here? I'm talking you take the disk out of the system and you can't do anything with it | 19:23 |
| sdague | sure | 19:23 |
| jgriffith | sdague: you're talking full data encyrption though | 19:23 |
| jgriffith | right? | 19:23 |
| sdague | but if tenant 1 boots with a local disk, non encrypted | 19:24 |
| jgriffith | sdague: as in over the wire | 19:24 |
| sdague | and later tenant 2 boots onto the same physical disk | 19:24 |
| sdague | and the just run strings /dev/vda | 19:24 |
| sdague | they could very easily get data from the first tenant | 19:24 |
| jgriffith | sdague: I get it.. thus the things like the old secure delete options | 19:25 |
| sdague | yes, you can implement post vm kill scrubbers, and secure delete, but if you encrypt the thing in the first place there isn't an exposure if your delete phase crashes | 19:25 |
| sdague | yep | 19:25 |
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| sdague | anyway, I think we're at a place as a community to have this conversation about whether we think this is sane default | 19:26 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: I guess my question is that if it's a required project, does that mean it's always on and not configurable? | 19:26 |
| sdague | and what complexity does it cost us to do that | 19:26 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: fair enough, I don't like to chime in on TC mail postings without having a full understanding. I don't want to disrupt things needlessly | 19:27 |
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| sdague | right, and that thread was mostly about *where/how* do we have this conversation | 19:27 |
| jgriffith | sdague: thus the reason for pinging you here | 19:27 |
| sdague | it wasn't supposed to be the actual conversation | 19:27 |
| jgriffith | sdague: understood | 19:27 |
| sdague | it was "I think we reached this point to consider this, where/how should we?" | 19:27 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: ok, well thanks. I'll keep lurking and pay attention to how things develop | 19:28 |
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| jroll | +1 for "largely irresponsible to have a multitenant environment without it" | 19:31 |
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| jgriffith | jroll: sure, in a public cloud I have no arguments about that statement | 19:33 |
| jgriffith | jroll: on my dev teams internal OpenStack Cloud, I disagree | 19:34 |
| jgriffith | jroll: I'd also argue you could consider something simple like use LVM and Thin provisioning as an alternate solution | 19:35 |
| jgriffith | jroll: anyway... I didn't stop in to start a war, just wanted some more background | 19:35 |
| jroll | jgriffith: yeah, didn't want to start something, just saying I agree - even for internal things, I think it's important to treat internal networks/etc as hostile | 19:36 |
| jgriffith | jroll: hmm... ok, that's an interesting point | 19:36 |
| jgriffith | jroll: all comes down to if there's an inherent cost or not IMO | 19:37 |
| jgriffith | but anway... guess we'll see how it goes | 19:37 |
| jroll | jgriffith: sure, and the inherent risk that may or may not be weighed against the cost :) | 19:38 |
| jroll | and indeed, we will | 19:38 |
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| sdague | because, clearly, no internal use networks ever get breached | 20:08 |
| sdague | :) | 20:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | Dean Troyer proposed openstack/openstack-specs: Propose creation of Architecture Working Group https://review.openstack.org/335141 | 22:09 |
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