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| andreykurilin | mtreinish: hi! I can look at your repo, but I don't relate to ec2, so I'm not the right person :) Sorry | 09:05 |
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| mtreinish | andreykurilin: oh, sry. Must of confused you with someone else | 13:29 |
| andreykurilin | mtreinish: np | 13:30 |
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| sdague | mordgan: where is the code in keystone that hides catalog entries based on project id? | 14:25 |
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| mordgan | sdague: in the endpoint filter | 14:26 |
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| sdague | can you provide github links with the lines highlighted | 14:27 |
| mordgan | sdague: it is either part of the main catalog driver now (sql) or in contrib | 14:27 |
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| mordgan | sdague: i am running late for getting to breakfast meeting. | 14:27 |
| sdague | ok | 14:27 |
| mordgan | Will provide links when I am back if abother wonderful keystone dev doesnt beat me to it | 14:28 |
| sdague | ok, cool | 14:28 |
| mordgan | Stevemar, dstanek, dolphm, lbragstad, cc ^^ | 14:28 |
| mordgan | topol: ^ ;) | 14:28 |
| lbragstad | sdague o/ | 14:29 |
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| lbragstad | sdague need endpoint filtering? | 14:29 |
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| lbragstad | based on project ids? | 14:29 |
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| dstanek | sdague: this class is the starting point i think http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/contrib/endpoint_filter/backends/catalog_sql.py | 14:38 |
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| dstanek | mordgan: not yet https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167675/ | 14:38 |
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| sdague | lbragstad: no, I'm trying to understand the comments in the etherpad about why unauthenticated catalog retrieval is not a thing that can work because people are using a feature to hide catalog entries based on auth | 14:41 |
| sdague | and I don't see, in an obvious way, where that is in the data model | 14:42 |
| sdague | or code | 14:42 |
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| sdague | I guess that contrib section is part of it | 14:43 |
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| sdague | I do wish people would use highlighted github urls, so much easier to read and understand | 14:43 |
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| lbragstad | sdague yeah, i think this pertains to what you're looking for | 14:44 |
| lbragstad | sdague https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/contrib/endpoint_filter/backends/catalog_sql.py#L28 | 14:44 |
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| lbragstad | sdague get_v3_catalog() is implemented in the original catalog API, but it looks like it's the backend that does the filtering :-/ | 14:44 |
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| sdague | oh, it's all done through another mapping table | 14:45 |
| lbragstad | sdague so the reimplementation of get_v3_catalog() in the endpoint filtering API is what actually *hides* things. | 14:46 |
| lbragstad | sdague yeah, we store that association in a separate table, | 14:46 |
| dstanek | sdague: there is a review (the one i posted above) that moves that stuff into core | 14:46 |
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| lbragstad | which maps the endpoint ID to the project ID | 14:46 |
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| dstanek | sdague: this feature makes it much harder to implement other catalog delivery mechanisms. right now i am just ignoring it for DNS-based catalogs | 14:47 |
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| sdague | dstanek: right, I guess that's the thing where it seems really weird | 14:48 |
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| sdague | so, the reason for this feature? | 14:48 |
| sdague | I guess trying to understand the user story behind it might be helpful | 14:48 |
| dstanek | sdague: i don't know the use cases :-( maybe dolphm, mordgan or ayoung could help with that | 14:48 |
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| lbragstad | sdague same here, i think this predates me | 14:49 |
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| tongli | good day guys, this patch set is to fix a bug in neutron setup of devstack. | 14:49 |
| dstanek | it's not for security - maybe user experience? you shouldn't see glance endpoints unless you are in a project that has them? | 14:49 |
| tongli | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226373/ | 14:49 |
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| ayoung | sdague, so, that is a good question. I know it has come up in the past,but now that I think of it, I am not certain that it is even something we support in Keystone today | 14:50 |
| tongli | it has been rebased since patch set 2, now 11 times. can anyone please also take a look? | 14:50 |
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| ayoung | the idea was that the catalog you see depends on the project you are in. So with project filtering, yeah, you would only see the endpoints assigned to your project | 14:50 |
| tongli | Sean M. Collins already +1ed awhile back. | 14:50 |
| ayoung | sdague, I think it is the case where there might be different classes of service? | 14:50 |
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| sdague | ayoung: yeh, I don't know. | 14:51 |
| ayoung | dstanek, is this in regards to the DNS Catalog? | 14:51 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: no, sdague has a question about it; probably from the x-project spec about better catalogs | 14:51 |
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| sdague | dstanek: right, exactly | 14:52 |
| ayoung | ah...I bet that is where it is coming from, then. | 14:52 |
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| sdague | because it goes directly in oposition to a thing we were hoping to change | 14:52 |
| lbragstad | looks like there was an endpoint-filtering blueprint in lp but i can't find it - https://github.com/openstack/keystone/commit/5dc50bbf0fb94506a06ae325d46bcf3ac1c4ad0a | 14:52 |
| sdague | and make the catalog fetch the first part of the interaction | 14:52 |
| sdague | instead of only after auth | 14:52 |
| ayoung | DNS info is expected to be public. | 14:52 |
| lbragstad | i hope endpoint-filtering isn't used as a security model... | 14:53 |
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| ayoung | sdague, I'm with you....so the question is how to handle the other use cases. My gut says that people are thinking in the existing set of limitations. dstanek and I were discussing moving the Service catalog to DNS, and what that would entail | 14:53 |
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| ayoung | Lets assume for a moment that we did do that. How would we make it so the endpoint filtering still worked? | 14:54 |
| sdague | ayoung: right, so I think that regardless of if it is DNS or an unauthenticated REST call, it's the same thing | 14:54 |
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| sdague | ayoung: I think the question is why is endpoint filtering needed | 14:54 |
| sdague | what's the user story behind it | 14:54 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, it is not the entirety of the model. It is certainly some information hiding, but just to reduce the surface. Basec web authN/Z still applies | 14:54 |
| stevemar_ | sdague: i think it was a way to squish the size of the catalog | 14:55 |
| stevemar_ | back when we were having catalog size troubles | 14:55 |
| lbragstad | sdague would it make sense to filter endpoints if you had a deployment at scale where catalog size was a problem? | 14:55 |
| sdague | stevemar_: right, but if we make it so you don't need the catalog in the token, it solves that, right | 14:55 |
| lbragstad | sdague ++ | 14:55 |
| sdague | lbragstad: right, that's only a problem if you continue to send the catalog everywhere | 14:55 |
| stevemar_ | sdague: yep | 14:55 |
| ayoung | sdague, so, ignoring security, you would need to know which server to use if there are multiple. The alternative is either some selection criteria in the catalog or limiting the services to only one endpoiint per region. THis is beyond my on the groun experience, as our deployments tend to be small | 14:56 |
| sdague | vs. just know you can get it anon any time | 14:56 |
| stevemar_ | yup | 14:56 |
| lbragstad | sdague eliminating that would shoot that use case down | 14:56 |
| * stevemar_ just realizes he has a dental appointment in 4 minutes | 14:56 | |
| sdague | so, mostly, I'm trying to figure out if we can unwind this usefully | 14:56 |
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| sdague | ayoung: right, that assumes that you'll have multiple catalog entries per region per service, right? | 14:57 |
| ayoung | sdague, yes, and I never quite understood the rationale for that. I mean, load balancing should happen behind the URL, not in front | 14:57 |
| sdague | right | 14:57 |
| sdague | otherwise, you are way boned | 14:57 |
| dstanek | is this it https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/endpoint-filtering ? | 14:58 |
| ayoung | So I can only assume it is for differnet QoS but then, different regions, no? | 14:58 |
| sdague | different region is fine, you don't need filtering for that | 14:58 |
| ayoung | dstanek, probably. THe actual API is in the docs now, too. | 14:58 |
| sdague | anyway, that boils down to a good concrete question | 14:58 |
| lbragstad | so, it does look like it was mainly u-x | 14:58 |
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| sdague | do people use multiple entries for the same services per region, and if so, why | 14:59 |
| dstanek | so since it was a gyee thing, maybe HP actually uses it? | 14:59 |
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| ayoung | lbragstad, the conversation was wide ranging, as I recall. That was gyee's rationale, but other people wanted and have used it since then. | 14:59 |
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| clarkb | sdague rax uses two compute entries, one for oldgen one for newgen | 15:00 |
| clarkb | it breaks the clients | 15:00 |
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| ayoung | Heh | 15:00 |
| sdague | clarkb: with the same type field? | 15:00 |
| clarkb | yes compute | 15:00 |
| sdague | woot | 15:00 |
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| sdague | ok, anyway, I think that leads us to a good question point here | 15:01 |
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| sdague | ayoung / dstanek do you have something up somewhere about what catalog in DNS would look like? | 15:01 |
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| sdague | so that I can educate myself on that | 15:01 |
| ayoung | So...selection criteria is still part of the question. If we get multiple endpoints back (regardless of query mech) how do we select the right one. In the past, people were able to use endpoint filtering as one way to answer that question. | 15:01 |
| ayoung | sdague, yes, dstanek has a gist... | 15:02 |
| dstanek | sdague: i have a semi-working thing that i started to document here https://gist.github.com/dstanek/093f851fdea8ebfd893d | 15:02 |
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| sdague | ayoung: I guess that's my question about what a "wrong one" is | 15:03 |
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| dstanek | sdague: i'm trying to follow along the RFC, but i just did whatever i could to get it working. have to figure out how close i am to the RFC eventually | 15:04 |
| ayoung | sdague, I can see multiple glances (maybe) and multiple cinders (maybe) being pulled together, if they were somehow managed separately | 15:04 |
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| ayoung | that is more a consumption issue: what is used to put together the VM. Multipe Novas I couldn't really see working together in the same project. | 15:05 |
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| sdague | ayoung: in the same region? | 15:06 |
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| sdague | I'm not sure I understand that code separtion. | 15:07 |
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| sdague | ok, cool, thanks for the feedback here, I think it will generate a good question going forward | 15:08 |
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| ayoung | sdague, question for you. What do you think of the idea of splitting policy files into two piece. One is the scope check, that needs to fetch the data fom the database. The other is the role check. Only the role check would be expected to be modifiably | 15:10 |
| ayoung | er, exposed to be modifiable to the end user | 15:10 |
| sdague | ayoung: honestly, I've paged out most of the policy context at this point. | 15:10 |
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| ayoung | sdague, I don't know if that is what you had in mind when you were saying "policy in code"but that is where I got the idea, and I think it is a good one | 15:11 |
| mordred | ayoung, sdague: I only followed part of the above, but I'd argue that multiple compute endpoints in a region is a bug and should absolutely not be alloed | 15:11 |
| mordred | allowed | 15:11 |
| sdague | ayoung: policy in code is just the contents of policy.json in the projects being in a py file in the projects instead of a file in /etc | 15:11 |
| ayoung | sdague, Also, if we can come up with a good basic set of roles, we can make that work, and then policy would just be an over ride. | 15:12 |
| ayoung | sdague, so..I think I've come around to your way of thinking on this. Just trying to iron out the details to make it less painful for discussion and implementation | 15:12 |
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| sdague | ayoung: but in reality, the whole policy thing is paged out because I was feeling like there were fundamental gaps in communication happening, and I ran out of time. | 15:13 |
| sdague | ayoung: ok, great | 15:13 |
| ayoung | sdague, there were gaps, and part of that was that each of use were understanding a portion of the problem. I put it aside for a while to bake. | 15:14 |
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| ayoung | Now I'm trying to fix things without boiling any large bodies of water | 15:14 |
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| sdague | coolio | 15:14 |
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| david-lyle | in a pay for service cloud, or charged by service cloud, a filtered catalog keeps users from accessing things they haven't agreed to pay for | 15:14 |
| david-lyle | there is also the beta case, where you let select users see endpoints, but not all | 15:15 |
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| ayoung | david-lyle, but couldn't both of those be dealt with via regions in a cleaner manner? | 15:15 |
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| david-lyle | ayoung: so I need to define a whole region to beta Trove for some users? | 15:16 |
| clarkb | or http 401 by the service | 15:16 |
| david-lyle | I may beta Trove and never adopt it, just an example | 15:16 |
| ayoung | As an analogy to the linux VFS: endpoints are inodes. The Region part of the catalog is the dentries. Put an endpoint in multiple parts of the catalog, with the service being the dentry that points to it | 15:17 |
| sdague | right, I think 401 is the right option | 15:17 |
| david-lyle | so having it visible in the service catalog means it shows up in Horizon | 15:17 |
| david-lyle | the panels | 15:17 |
| david-lyle | so every user thinks they have access and then gets 401s | 15:17 |
| sdague | david-lyle: so, you are saying that horizon needs a specific *additional* bit of information for "what can this user access" | 15:17 |
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| sdague | which, today, you baking into the base service catalog | 15:18 |
| david-lyle | I suppose this could be accomplished via policy | 15:18 |
| david-lyle | but that's another mess | 15:18 |
| sdague | right, there are many messes | 15:18 |
| david-lyle | of greater size | 15:18 |
| ayoung | sdague, that is kindof what the token only having the project filtered endpoints provides now | 15:18 |
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| sdague | ayoung: right | 15:18 |
| david-lyle | ideally it would be policy driven | 15:18 |
| ayoung | nah, policy is not the right approach; we'd have to remotely query the endpoints. | 15:18 |
| david-lyle | for Horizon, but that doesn't help other access mechanisms | 15:19 |
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| ayoung | I like the idea of it being tied to project, just the question is how to make that clear if you query DNS first. Put the hierarchical project structure in DNS does not make sense to me. | 15:19 |
| ayoung | Which leads back to a keystone query | 15:20 |
| sdague | yeh, I think we need to seperate "here is the whole catalog" and "here is what you have access to" | 15:20 |
| ayoung | but the query could be reserved for the cases where we need to distinguish between two endpoints | 15:20 |
| ayoung | Maybe we start with "only generally accessable resources are shown in DNS" | 15:21 |
| sdague | because putting the catalog in something without acl, like dns, becomes impossible | 15:21 |
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| sdague | david-lyle: so, you don't object to the whole catalog existing for access as long as there is a specific "what's my user got" call, right? | 15:23 |
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| david-lyle | sdague: I'm good with that | 15:23 |
| sdague | which is more of a capabilities question | 15:23 |
| sdague | ok, cool. | 15:25 |
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| stevemar_ | sdague: ayoung just got back, and read scroll back - i think the two concepts 1) here's the whole catalog and 2) here's what you have access to via endpoint filtering can co-exist | 16:06 |
| sdague | stevemar_: I agree | 16:07 |
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| ayoung | stevemar_, and the second part of that has two uses: | 16:07 |
| ayoung | 1. UX. 2. Information hiding | 16:07 |
| ayoung | UX is the more compelling issue | 16:08 |
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| sdague | right, I think solving it for UX is fine | 16:08 |
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| sdague | because then it's just a second call, or a param added to the call | 16:08 |
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| sdague | for information hiding seems contrary to what we want to accomplish | 16:08 |
| sdague | because that means 1 can't exist | 16:09 |
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| stevemar_ | sdague: right, we can't do 2) if we even have an unauthed call for getting the whole catalog | 16:11 |
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| stevemar_ | (or dns, whatever the mechanism is) | 16:11 |
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| tongli | can someone please look at this patch set for a bug fix? | 16:17 |
| tongli | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226373/ | 16:17 |
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| mriedem | stevebaker: is this a new thing in heat py34 jobs? http://logs.openstack.org/77/225677/5/gate/gate-heat-python34/ec4a6b8/console.html#_2015-10-08_06_38_31_800 | 18:23 |
| mriedem | s/new/known/? | 18:24 |
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| mriedem | maybe this https://github.com/openstack/heat/commit/f5c415accfff2ad399194b30b9408a903042f009 | 18:25 |
| mriedem | yup, nvm, that's it | 18:25 |
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