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| lhcheng | lifeless: ping | 00:31 |
|---|---|---|
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| lhcheng | lifeless: got a question on pbr when you have a time. | 00:32 |
| lhcheng | lifeless: I am wondering how the SOURCES.txt is built, it seems like it is pulling file that is not in the MANIFEST.in | 00:33 |
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| lhcheng | lifeless: for example: https://github.com/openstack/horizon/blob/master/MANIFEST.in it doesn't include py, json and scss file. But does include it in the SOURCES.txt, wondering how was it smart enough to know to include those files. | 00:34 |
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| lifeless | lhcheng: are they in git ? | 00:41 |
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| lhcheng | lifeless: hello! | 00:42 |
| lhcheng | lifeless: yes, this is for horizon: https://github.com/openstack/horizon/ | 00:42 |
| lhcheng | lifeless: we're not having any problem in horizon itself, but more on when trying to package it via anvil. | 00:43 |
| lifeless | everything in git is included | 00:43 |
| lifeless | you can include more via MANIFEST.in | 00:44 |
| lhcheng | lifeless: you mean all the code in the git repo is include by default when "setup.py build" is called? | 00:45 |
| lifeless | mmm | 00:45 |
| lifeless | we may be talking about different things | 00:45 |
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| lifeless | to be specific; the manifest generated by pbr is everything tracked by git, + extras from MANIFEST.in | 00:45 |
| lhcheng | oh... | 00:46 |
| lhcheng | lifeless: that's the magic I am looking for :) | 00:46 |
| lhcheng | lifeless: how does pbr know which files are tracked by git? | 00:46 |
| lifeless | lhcheng: it asks git | 00:47 |
| lhcheng | harlowja: ^^ | 00:47 |
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| harlowja | lhcheng soo rpm patches therefore aren't known by git :-P | 00:47 |
| harlowja | so that might be what u are seeing? | 00:47 |
| harlowja | and/or maybe we should move that to be a git patch so that it is known? | 00:48 |
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| harlowja | vs a rpm patch | 00:48 |
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| lhcheng | lifeless: do you have link-y where the magic happens? is it somewhere in pbr or setuptools? | 00:49 |
| lifeless | its in pbr | 00:49 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: oh, I forgot earlier; if you're doing releases, we need a pbr one | 00:50 |
| lhcheng | harlowja: could be.. | 00:50 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: if not thats fine too, I'll see about more patches to land | 00:50 |
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| lifeless | lhcheng: LocalManifestMaker inside pbr | 00:51 |
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| harlowja | lhcheng so i guess, if file is new, don't use rpm to do | 00:57 |
| harlowja | thats the new slogan | 00:57 |
| harlowja | don't forget it | 00:57 |
| lhcheng | lifeless: thanks! | 00:57 |
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| bole | Hi, is there already a possibility to change the libvirt parameters of an instance in a KVM/OpenStack environment at runtime? | 10:44 |
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| jaypipes | etoews: the CLA is a non-sequitur. Really wish you and jnoller would just admit RAX isn't interested in doing things the OpenStack way, and all they care about is RAX. | 14:42 |
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| jaypipes | etoews: it's been that ways for years. Fellow Rackers favorites your and jnoller's tweets... not surprising, it's a group-think hive mentality down in Texas. | 14:43 |
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| jaypipes | etoews: Too many projects too count, RAX is only interested in RAX and not the community. Lunr, RAX-specific Keystone, RAX-specific dashboard, RAX-specific Glance, everything is RAX first, OpeNStack community later. | 14:47 |
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| bdemers | not picking sides here… but i’m guessing most of the companies paying salaries of contributors are more interested in getting paid first, and the community second | 14:52 |
| bdemers | (capitalism and all) | 14:52 |
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| bdemers | I don’t know the rackspace history, so again, not trying to pick sides, just seems a little harsh | 14:53 |
| jaypipes | bdemers: that also is a non-sequitur. | 14:53 |
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| jaypipes | bdemers: lots of people get paid to work on open source projects (myself included). It's the *way* that organizations choose to contribute that is different. | 14:54 |
| jnoller | how is it not open to the community if it's OSS, the backend supports openstack as a first class citizen @jaypipes? Is it *only* that it's not in stack forge? | 14:55 |
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| etoews | for context, here's what jaypipes is referencing https://twitter.com/jaypipes/status/631476437502066688 | 14:55 |
| etoews | all are welcome to draw their own conclusions about what we're doing and how we're going about it. | 14:56 |
| jnoller | does everything that supports and helps openstack adoption & ecosystem have to live in /stackforge /openstack? | 14:56 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: my frustration is that this follows the pattern of RAX from day one in OpenStack. They work with the community only to the extent that it serves their own purpose. And if they don't like a particular tool, library, or process, they say F it and go off in their own corner and either rewrite something or create something new that folks are supposed to marvel at. And never is there an attempt to work with the Open | 14:58 |
| jaypipes | Stack's processes and community structure. It's just "well, that's the 'community', we're going to be different for the sake of it." | 14:58 |
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| edleafe | jnoller: I read both the announcement tweet and the blog article. Didn't see the name 'OpenStack' anywhere. | 14:59 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: so while the rest of us sit around in IRC meetings and try to reach a consensus roadmap and pull in the same direction, RAX has always done whatever the heck it felt was best for its tight-knit group of in-house developers. | 15:00 |
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| jnoller | I don't disagree that has some historical merit - but in the case of this tool - and my team specifically - everything is OSS first, doesn't matter where it lives. Look at the python-openstacksdk as a prime example. Shipping a CLI for customers built on an openstack first SDK (gophercloud) is us serving the requests of customers, not harming or diluting a dedication to OSS, or openstack. | 15:01 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: and that leads to resentment in the OpenStack community, duplication of effort at a grand scale, a RAX cloud that is slightly dfifferent (for no good reason) than OpenStack's public APIs, and a community process that is seen as mandatory, except if you work for RAX. | 15:01 |
| jaypipes | and I'm tired of it. sorry. | 15:01 |
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| jnoller | It's fair if your upset; that's OK - but I have to fundamentally disagree that a healthy and wide ecosystem has to be centralized into the openstack workflow | 15:02 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: does this gophercloud project hold public IRC meetings? have a PTL? have liaisons to the OpenStack documentation and infrastructure and QA teams? Have a public roadmap that can be joined with other OpenStack projects? | 15:02 |
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| edleafe | jnoller: and will gophercloud be supported like other RAX products? Say, like pyrax? | 15:03 |
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| jnoller | jaypipes: Does it *have to* | 15:03 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: the way to do things is to effect change in the OpenStack community by bringing in different solutions and working *with* the infra team and the TC. the opposite is what RAX consistently does. | 15:04 |
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| etoews | jaypipes: are you asking these questions of http://www.openstack4j.com/ too? | 15:04 |
| jaypipes | etoews: I should be, yes. | 15:05 |
| jnoller | jaypipes: pyrax is being deprecated for https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/SDK-Development/PythonOpenStackSDK | 15:05 |
| etoews | jaypipes: i think that points to our fundamental disagreement. | 15:05 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: I didn't ask about pyrax, but ok. | 15:05 |
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| jnoller | sorry, that was edleafe | 15:05 |
| edleafe | jnoller: pyrax has been in limbo for months, with pull requests being ignored, and no roadmap forward | 15:06 |
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| jaypipes | etoews: and openstack4j is essentially one contributor, if you look at the git stats. | 15:06 |
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| jnoller | I know your stance edleafe | 15:06 |
| etoews | i want to promote a healthy developer ecosystem. that doesn't have to be necessarily in the big tent. | 15:06 |
| jaypipes | etoews: why? | 15:06 |
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| jaypipes | etoews: what don't you like about projects being in the common ifnastructure, build platforms, and review sstemns? | 15:06 |
| jaypipes | gah, typing. | 15:07 |
| jnoller | building tools to help people consume openstack doesn't have to mean "pushing change into the upstream community" | 15:07 |
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| jnoller | Just like python & pypi modules, the ecosystem has to be bigger than just the standard library | 15:08 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: you are not understanding what I meant. I was saying if you had a problem with tooling or processes or other things in the OpenStack community, you could have pushed for change to those things. Instead, that was NEVER a thing that RAX considered. Instead, it was always intended to be external to the OpenStack community. | 15:08 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: I'm not equating the OpenStack community with the Python standard library. | 15:09 |
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| jaypipes | I have no idea why you are comparing them like that. | 15:09 |
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| jnoller | Because I see parallels being a python core contributor | 15:09 |
| jaypipes | yeah, I don't. | 15:09 |
| etoews | a healthy dev ecosystem means people can build tooling according to their needs. whatever and wherever that happens to be. demanding that everything openstack related be in stackforge/ or openstack/ does not engender a such an ecosystem. | 15:09 |
| jaypipes | etoews: all this does is fragment. | 15:10 |
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| jnoller | AWS doesn't have ecosystem fragmentation? | 15:10 |
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| jaypipes | etoews: and what are the real reasons why certain RAX developers do not want to participate in the openStack community and use its tooling and platforms | 15:10 |
| jaypipes | is it really as silly as "I don't like Gerrit"? | 15:11 |
| etoews | i can't think of any other oss communities that demand all tooling but under the purview of the oss community. | 15:11 |
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| edleafe | etoews: you keep using the word "demand" | 15:12 |
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| jnoller | jaypipes: I'll speak for *my* team but it's the demand "You must not only adhere to our tooling, but our socio-political structure, elections, et al" instead of operating a simple OSS project with pull requests, etc | 15:12 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: yep, I figured as much. I figured that certain RAX folks STILL to this day had not gotten over the decision not to just use GitHub for everything. | 15:13 |
| jnoller | I mean, writing stuff to make openstack easy to use for users no matter where it lives should be something the foundation wants | 15:13 |
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| etoews | a major principle of developer experience is to go where the developers are. people who develop apps that depend on openstack sdks do not typically develop with all of the openstack reviewing, lists, irc, etc. they have their own places where they do development and we prefer to meet them there. | 15:13 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: the foundation wants that, for sure. and they want it to be part of OpeNStack, not github.com/rackspace// | 15:14 |
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| jnoller | jaypipes: what etoews just said, and I'm happy to move ALL of it out of /rackspace and into /gophercloud. Not /openstack | 15:14 |
| jaypipes | etoews: honestly, that's such BS, sorry,. | 15:14 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: lol. | 15:15 |
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| jnoller | jaypipes: what? Why centralize everything for users? Why force anyone who may want to contribute to an SDK into the global openstack workflow? Why not let devs work on their terms? | 15:16 |
| etoews | jaypipes: yep. we fundamentally disagree on this point. i'll never be convinced that all tooling for the openstack ecosystem should live in stackforge/ or openstack/ | 15:17 |
| edleafe | jnoller: that's pretty much the definition of a dev community. If you don't want to participate in it, fine. | 15:17 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: if I contribute to MySQL, I don't expect to do anything other than submit code using the MySQL patch submission and review processes. Same for PostgreSQL or Apache. | 15:17 |
| jaypipes | or linux for that matter. | 15:17 |
| jaypipes | or Android, which uses Gerrit. | 15:18 |
| edleafe | jnoller: just don't be shocked when it's pointed out | 15:18 |
| jnoller | uh, yes jaypipes | 15:18 |
| etoews | jaypipes: but what if you build a tool that works with mysql? | 15:18 |
| jnoller | I agree | 15:18 |
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| jnoller | if you are contributing to mysql, python-core, etc, you adapt to their processes. But if I'm writing a library that talks to them, why do it there? | 15:19 |
| etoews | does that tool belong *in* the mysql repos? (i have no idea how mysql structures its codebase) | 15:19 |
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| edleafe | etoews: but what if you wrote a tool that only works with Rackspace Cloud Databases, when it could have worked with all of Trove? | 15:19 |
| jaypipes | etoews: then I respectfully request that RAX folks stop referring to any of the gophercloud stuff as the Go SDK for OpenStack, and instead call it "A Go SDK for communicating with Rackspace Cloud" | 15:19 |
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| etoews | edleafe: if anybody did that to scratch their own itch, more power to them. | 15:20 |
| jaypipes | etoews: or just call the whole project rackspacecloud-sdk. | 15:20 |
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| jnoller | jaypipes: except it supports openstack first. | 15:20 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: why is there a rackspace/ directory in the source code then? | 15:21 |
| edleafe | etoews: sure, but that's hardly being a good member of the community | 15:21 |
| edleafe | etoews: nobody cares if someone writes a tool | 15:21 |
| jnoller | jaypipes to add support for vendors, HP is welcome too. And IBM, and anyone with custom extensions | 15:21 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: I'm sure they might do that if you moved it to openstack/ code namespace. might even do that if you moved it to gophercloud/ namespace. | 15:22 |
| jnoller | Ok | 15:22 |
| jnoller | jaypipes: I'll do that! | 15:22 |
| jaypipes | cool. | 15:22 |
| jnoller | Easy peasy | 15:22 |
| jaypipes | and remove the rackspace/ directory in it. | 15:23 |
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| jnoller | I'll ask the team to move it to it's own org | 15:23 |
| jaypipes | sounds good. | 15:23 |
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| jnoller | and figure out vendor extensions that don't make builds insane | 15:23 |
| jaypipes | also sounds good. | 15:24 |
| jnoller | It'll go into /gophercloud just fyi | 15:24 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: yes, I wouldn't think that you guys would want to join the OpenStack community in any way, so that's fine. | 15:24 |
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| jnoller | Oh that's uncalled for | 15:24 |
| elmiko | has there been some change to devstack that would cause `openstack endpoint list` to start returning an empty list? | 15:24 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: sorry. | 15:25 |
| jnoller | Is it OSS | 15:25 |
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| jnoller | I think https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/SDK-Development/PythonOpenStackSDK is in the community :unclear: | 15:25 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: you keep providing a false equivalence between open community and open source. | 15:25 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Open | 15:26 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: Open source is just one of the four Opens. | 15:26 |
| * elmiko waves at jaypipes | 15:26 | |
| jnoller | Pretty sure all the OSS projects I work on and the team works on are open communities too. But telling me that I have to adhere to what Openstack dictates is :( | 15:26 |
| jaypipes | elmiko: hey. | 15:27 |
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| jnoller | Anyway, I'll get the gophercloud org setup and vendor extensions all fixed up | 15:27 |
| edleafe | hmmm... "demands", "dictates"... | 15:27 |
| edleafe | and you wonder why people question your desire to be part of the community | 15:28 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: like I said, just don't call it OpenStack. Call it "A Go SDK for communicating with Rackspace Cloud", and when it is actually tested against anything that isn't RAX Cloud, then you can call it "A Go SDK for communicating with OpenSTack-alike clouds" | 15:28 |
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| jnoller | It actually is tested against vanilla openstack :) | 15:28 |
| jnoller | devstack, OSAD, et al | 15:29 |
| jaypipes | jnoller: cool, where is the testing platform? | 15:29 |
| etoews | we always develop to vanilla openstack first, then test with rackspace | 15:29 |
| jnoller | So by definition, it is an SDK for openstack | 15:29 |
| etoews | it's devstack | 15:29 |
| jaypipes | no, I mean where is the testing platform housed>? | 15:29 |
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| jaypipes | jnoller: I'm genuinely curious, I'm not trying to make a point. | 15:30 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: if it's anything like when I was there, it's a dev's VM on the RAX cloud | 15:31 |
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| stevemar | jaypipes: thanks for picking up where i left off last night :P | 15:36 |
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| jaypipes | stevemar: honestly, I'm not trying to be an asshole. I just have some history and frustrations. | 15:37 |
| stevemar | jaypipes: i totally get it | 15:37 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: you never have to try :-P | 15:38 |
| jaypipes | heh, true. | 15:38 |
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| stevemar | jaypipes: i don't even want to discuss again, everything i wanted to say it on twitter anyway :) | 15:39 |
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| jaypipes | stevemar: to be fair, I hate twitter for this type of thing. it's impossible to fit my thoughts into 140 words, and shit just comes across like all I'm being is mean. | 15:40 |
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| jaypipes | 140 characters that is... *sigh*, I'm beat. | 15:42 |
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| bdemers | are the ‘get-tripleo-ironic-*’ jobs stable ? | 15:45 |
| bdemers | I’ve seen some failures the past couple days: error: could not revert 7f8128f... Add the swap and ephemeral BDMs if needed | 15:45 |
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| jaypipes | bdemers: may want to ask on #openstack-ironic or #openstack-infra | 15:48 |
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| anteaya | jaypipes: language | 17:42 |
| * anteaya shakes a finger at jaypipes | 17:43 | |
| jaypipes | anteaya: yeah, sorry... :( | 17:43 |
| anteaya | jaypipes: and hello | 17:43 |
| jaypipes | heya | 17:43 |
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| lifeless | zzzeek: do you maintain Mako ? | 22:09 |
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| zzzeek | lifeless: yes, but im not here atm :) | 22:37 |
| zzzeek | lifeless: sent a potential fix | 22:37 |
| * zzzeek afk | 22:37 | |
| lifeless | zzzeek: I put a patch in your bugtracker | 22:38 |
| zzzeek | lifeless: i just took universal=1 out | 22:38 |
| zzzeek | no need | 22:38 |
| zzzeek | gotta run | 22:38 |
| lifeless | zzzeek: its insufficient; talk to you later. | 22:38 |
| lifeless | (and unnecessary) | 22:38 |
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