Wednesday, 2014-12-03

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kfox1111pecan question. If I'm writing a restcontroller based class, how do I get the post data?00:46
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jde_asdf02:21
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mordrediccha: I know you're not on the rackspace glance team anymore - but if I get: "message" : "OverLimit Retry...", back when trying to upload an image to RAX, what limit might I be over?13:58
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mordredalso - for ANYONE who might be around from glance, just printing json to stdout on error is not friendly13:59
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sigmavirus24mordred: if you have a bug for printing json to stdout when there's an error, assign it to me (lp: icordasc)14:04
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mordredsigmavirus24: I don't - although I can file one if you like14:19
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sigmavirus24mordred: that would be awesome14:19
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mordredsigmavirus24: https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+bug/139883814:23
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1398838 in python-glanceclient "Errors should not print json" [Undecided,New]14:23
sigmavirus24Thanks mordred !14:23
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icchamordred: does it say anything like storage full?15:28
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mordrediccha: it does not15:30
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icchamight be a repose limit then, nikhil: still works on the team and might be able to dig in more ^15:33
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nikhil_kiccha: o/15:54
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nikhil_kwho's looking for me15:54
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mordrednikhil_k: hey!16:59
mordrednikhil_k: I'm trying to upload an image to your glance and it seems unhappy17:00
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mordrednikhil_k: but I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if there is a problem17:00
mordredsince it's the first time I've uploaded something to rax glance17:00
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nikhil_kmordred: are you using public cloud or private?18:23
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clarkbnikhil_k: public18:24
nikhil_kmordred: if public cloud then is that public endpoint? if so, uploading data to images via the public endpoint is not allowed18:24
mordrednikhil_k: oh!18:24
mordrednikhil_k: well, that's good to know18:24
nikhil_kthere is the "import" option18:24
mordrednikhil_k: can I upload to swift and then give the swift thing?18:25
mordredyeah18:25
mordredso that's what I need to do then18:25
nikhil_kmordred: clarkb : http://www.rackspace.com/knowledge_center/article/preparing-an-image-for-import-into-the-rackspace-opencloud18:25
mordredfwiw, the error message I got would never tell me that in a million years18:25
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mordrednikhil_k: right - that's what I'm following18:25
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nikhil_kah cool18:25
mordrednikhil_k: but a) it uses pyrax, which I'm not going to do18:25
nikhil_kthe error might have been 413 vs. 403 ?18:25
mordrednikhil_k: b) it doesn't say I _have_ to upload to swift, merely implies that it's a good idea18:25
clarkbwow18:25
clarkbwhy I don't even18:26
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mordrednikhil_k: yes, it was 41318:26
mordrednikhil_k: but python-glanceclient just gave me a json blob back18:26
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nikhil_kmordred: you will have to use swift endpoint18:26
mordredand not an error message saying "uploading data is not allowed"18:26
mordrednikhil_k: awesome! thanks. I can do that18:26
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mordredthe rest of this is mainly feedback from a user in the ways in which this was not discoverable18:26
nikhil_kmordred: ah, that's a bug18:26
sigmavirus24nikhil_k: there's a bug for it and I'll tackle it tomorrow or the day after18:27
nikhil_kthanks for informing18:27
sigmavirus24mordred: made a report for us :)18:27
nikhil_ksigmavirus24: awesome, thank you!18:27
mordrednikhil_k: https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+bug/1398838 if you want to see the return18:27
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1398838 in python-glanceclient "Errors should not print json" [Undecided,New]18:27
sigmavirus24nikhil_k: no worries18:27
clarkbmordred: so we have to not use qemu-img, not use glanceclient, and basically rewrite all this code twice to support two clouds?18:27
mordredclarkb: no18:27
mordredwe dont' have to write it twice18:28
mordredand we can use glanceclient18:28
nikhil_ksigmavirus24: this is assigned to you, fyi ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+bug/1398838 )18:28
mordredyou can totally use glanceclient with the swift import18:28
clarkbmordred: oh ok18:28
sigmavirus24nikhil_k: I know it is ;)18:28
clarkbthen why doesn't glance just do this for us?18:28
mordredclarkb: and we can do that at hp too - so it's probably jsut the thing we shoudl do18:28
mordredclarkb: bonghits18:28
clarkbI mean this is why keystone exists right?18:28
mordredclarkb: shade will do this for us in about a day18:28
clarkb"put images over here"18:28
clarkbthen client puts images over there18:28
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mordredclarkb: shade.upload_image is going to == "upload to swift endpoint then register with glance"18:29
sigmavirus24clarkb: I heard you like moving images around, so I put an image mover inside your image mover so you could move images while you move images18:29
clarkbmordred: sure, but it shouldn't have to do that18:29
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nikhil_kclarkb: don't get your concern18:29
clarkbmordred: I should use the image uploader client and it should just upload the damn image18:29
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nikhil_koh18:29
clarkbnikhil_k: as a user of the cloud I should not need to know that. I am using a client that should know this18:30
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clarkbnikhil_k: and it should just do it18:30
nikhil_kGlance is not designed for uploads/data storage as such18:30
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clarkbnikhil_k: no thats fine. glance doesn't need to take the upload. use swift18:30
clarkbnikhil_k: but glanceclient via the catalog should know that images go into swift then are registered with glance18:30
mordrednikhil_k: yah - but it has an image-create option - so I think clark is saying that python-glanceclient should use swift when given image-create as a thing18:30
mordredyah18:30
clarkband as a user of the cloud I should never have to know that that is the mechanism18:30
mordred++18:31
mordred+100018:31
clarkbbecause I don't care18:31
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clarkbI just want my image that is on my laptop to be bootable in $cloud18:31
nikhil_kit's not that easy problem to fix18:31
nikhil_kthis may be fine for private and small clouds18:31
nikhil_kwhat if you've a corrupt and vulnerable image18:32
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nikhil_kyou can't just upload to public clouds18:32
nikhil_kmoreover, we've something called image sharing18:32
clarkbnikhil_k: public clouds are allowing this today18:32
nikhil_kwhich will spread the images like viruses18:32
clarkbboth rax and hpcloud have mechanisms for this18:32
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nikhil_kthat's a security issue for those clouds18:32
clarkbmy point is that I shouldn't need to kow what that mechanism is18:32
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clarkbkeystone should tell glanceclient and glanceclient should do it18:33
mordrednikhil_k: but the process of "upload to swift and register with glance" is a find mechanism, right?18:33
mordreds/find/fine/18:33
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nikhil_kmordred: there are 2 things in the "import" process18:33
clarkbmordred: does glanceclient properly delete and unregister images if using swift?18:33
nikhil_kfirst -> upload to "your/users" swift account18:33
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mordredclarkb: I believe so18:33
mordrednikhil_k: yes.18:33
nikhil_ksecond -> import task then puts the image in "glance's admin container (single tenant swift)" (after verifying it)18:34
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nikhil_kso, uploading to swift is insufficient as the user does not have rights to that container18:34
mordrednikhil_k: what we're saying is that python-glanceclient should know how to do those two steps for me18:34
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mordrednikhil_k: image-create should _actually_ do "upload to swift via python-swiftclient and then glance API import call"18:35
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nikhil_kmordred: the next issue is supporting all the different store at the python client level18:35
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mordredclarkb: or, it might be that we're still wanting python-*client to be end-user oriented, but they're really not18:35
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nikhil_kand the storage drivers can be of any sort18:35
jokke_No ... what is does is create image & upload it to glance which takes care of it (if you have sufficient permissions to do so) ;)18:36
nikhil_kwell this feature is still a wip (supporting it for different stores and such)18:36
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nikhil_knot all the core is upstream yet18:36
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nikhil_kcode*18:36
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clarkbmordred: thats part of the problem. I think another issue here is that we tend to be very bad thinking about how people will use clouds18:36
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clarkbmordred: it isn't just glance that has issues like this18:36
mordredtell me about it18:37
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nikhil_kfyi ... glance_stores logic is separated from glance , for helping new types of storage drivers to support and matain the features etc.18:37
clarkbnikhil_k: sure I don't think that is related though18:37
mordredyah - that makes perfect sense18:37
clarkbnikhil_k: all I am saying is that the client which end users use should know how to deal with this for the user18:38
clarkbnikhil_k: so that if I go from one cloud to another with different stores18:38
mordredwe're just talking about use experience as people without access to or knowledge of how the cloud is deployed18:38
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clarkbI don't have to know what the store is to make an image I have boot18:38
mordred++18:38
nikhil_kso, may be when we refactor glance_store to accept user's credentials to upload the image in their container (which is not allowed atm)18:38
mordredof course, this is WAY WORSE in nova18:38
mordredwait18:38
nikhil_kwe can add this feature in glance-client18:38
mordredwhy would that be needed18:38
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mordreddidn't the user already log in to the cloud?18:38
mordredso shouldn't the keystone token already be in the glance API payload?18:39
nikhil_kbasically, we don't have a good way to upload image to backend stores atm via the client18:39
nikhil_kif that made sense18:39
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nikhil_kwell, that's what I was saying about the kind of containers Glance's swift backend uses18:39
nikhil_kthere are 2 types18:39
nikhil_k1. admin container belonging to only glance18:39
mordredright.18:39
nikhil_k2. user container18:39
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nikhil_kGlance just knows how to upload to it's own container18:40
mordredthe user container should be accessible via the keystone token the user already has when talking to glance18:40
* morganfainberg sees some potentially scary comments happening in here...18:40
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nikhil_kwe are working on refactor in glance_store to change that18:40
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mordredI don't need _glance_ to know how to talk to swift18:40
morganfainbergmordred, ++18:40
mordredI need glanceclient to know how to use swiftclient18:40
mordredbecause I've already given glanceclient my creds18:40
morganfainbergmordred, and thereby a token18:40
mordredyes18:40
nikhil_koh ok, so you'r potentially taking overlap of services18:40
mordredyes18:41
mordredVERY SPECIFICALLY18:41
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mordredbecause OpensTack is One Cloud18:41
nikhil_kthat's the issue with custom backend storage drivers18:41
* mordred shoudl not have to care about that as a consumer18:41
nikhil_kyou need a good way for all kind of storage drivers to support this18:41
morganfainbergnikhil_k, please, please, please, please do not have glance store take the user's credentials.18:41
morganfainbergnikhil_k, if you mean username/password18:41
nikhil_kmorganfainberg: no, just token18:42
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morganfainbergnikhil_k, *phew*18:42
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nikhil_k:)18:42
morganfainbergnikhil_k, sorry saw some scary commented in there.... you know...18:42
mordredthe problem is easy if the backend storage drive is swift and if the swift install participates in the shared keystone18:42
nikhil_kmorganfainberg: are we going to have  way to re-auth a user using service token (At some point) ?18:42
morganfainbergnikhil_k, explain?18:42
mordredthe problem is harder if the backend storage driver a) needs auth and b) does not participate in keystone18:43
morganfainbergnikhil_k, but we do have support for using the user's token *and* the service token provider policy.json is looking for it.18:43
nikhil_kmordred: yeah, however the community won't accept this one off thing. feel free to propose it though :)18:43
mordredbut I'd actually say that the storage drive should figure out how to participate in keystone in that case, because otherwise it's not really an openstack cloud18:43
mordrednikhil_k: :)18:43
nikhil_kmordred: understand your pain...18:43
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morganfainbergmordred, ++18:43
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nikhil_kmorganfainberg: was thinking of a case when upload is still continuing and the token is about to expire18:44
morganfainbergnikhil_k, there is work on that front. let me see if we can summon jamielennox18:44
nikhil_kah cool18:44
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morganfainbergnikhil_k, i have some ideas for handling this in the policy language once we graduate policy.py as well - but it would be a stop-gap barring something better18:45
nikhil_kmordred: heh, particularly why we kept all that as far away from glance as possible18:45
nikhil_k:)18:45
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nikhil_kmorganfainberg: gotcha18:45
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morganfainbergnikhil_k, notably, allow certain "authenticated" requests [ long running ] to use tokens past the TTL but not explicitly revoked18:45
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jokke_mordred: and that's exactly the reason why bringing the storage driver to the client is so bad idea18:45
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nikhil_kmorganfainberg: that sounds like a good idea18:46
morganfainbergnikhil_k, very limited surface area, configured via policy.json. but that is very early stage thoughts18:46
morganfainbergnikhil_k, so it might require some architectural changes to make ti "clean" without breaking anyone/exposing security issues18:47
mordredjokke_: but what i'm saying is this18:47
morganfainbergbut let me finish getting policy.py graduated first before we dive into that topic18:47
mordredjokke_: both glance and swift are openstack projects18:47
mordredjokke_: so if glance registered a flag with keystone saying "image uploads should use swift+import"18:47
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mordredjokke_: then the glance client should be able to very easily accomplish that in a sane way and the user would be in good shape18:48
mordredjokke_: if that flag is NOT in the keystone catalog18:48
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mordredthen image-create should use the current image create workflow which uploads data directly to glance18:48
jokke_mordred: that makes absolutely sense18:48
mordredhaving there be an optimized workflow if all of the components are openstack seems completely sane18:48
nikhil_kmorganfainberg: sure, definitely interested in providing our use cases if/when you get to that :)18:48
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morganfainbergmordred, there is one catch - and that is if you don't want the user to need to know [rest api or glance thing] that stuff is really in swift. - mostly so glance only controls the data18:49
morganfainbergmordred, slightly different use-case though.18:49
mordredmorganfainberg: right. in that case, you woud not register that flag with keystone as a deployer18:49
morganfainberg++18:49
mordredbecause that would be a case of opaque storage18:49
morganfainbergyup18:49
morganfainbergwe're on the same page.18:49
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mordredin this case, rackspace actually actively wants me to upload to swift and then import from glance18:50
mordredbut have no way of telling me this18:50
mordredother than me reading a blog post18:50
nikhil_kok, great. if anyone has enough enthusiasm for a spec please feel free to open one18:50
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mordredI may very well write a spec18:50
nikhil_kcan definitely support this18:50
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nikhil_kcool, thanks mordred ! much appreciated18:50
SpamapSnikhil_k: just catching up on backscroll. I'm a bit confused why the glance_store isn't just a proxy to the real store, and users don't just send data to the storage proxy. :-P18:50
nikhil_kmordred: you need a core-reviewer on the spec though. so feel free to add my name18:51
mordrednikhil_k: I shall! thanks for talking through it with me18:51
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nikhil_kSpamapS: there's some driver specific logic in glance_store18:52
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nikhil_kSpamapS: btw, this is a new thing. glance_store was created very recently18:52
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SpamapSnikhil_k: yes, so why isn't there just a little light weight glance service that sits there and accepts image uploads from users and funnels them to wherever the driver wants them to go?18:52
nikhil_kend of juno, so a lot can be done there18:52
nikhil_kSpamapS: that's what glance is doing atm18:52
SpamapSand thats bad because?18:53
nikhil_kit acts as a proxy for storing image bits18:53
nikhil_kit's not18:53
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nikhil_kit's by design18:53
nikhil_kSpamapS: oh you'r saying why it's bad to do image uploads.. gotcha18:53
SpamapSso why is this discussion happening?18:53
nikhil_kit is a bad option for public clouds18:53
SpamapSCan you support that statement with data?18:54
nikhil_kbecause someone could have a slow connection18:54
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nikhil_kor someone cloud upload a vulnerable image18:54
SpamapSthat doesn't explain the problem with the proxy18:54
nikhil_kyou need a good way to upload authentic, bootable, sharable images18:55
SpamapSproxies deal with slow connections all the time.18:55
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nikhil_kglance does not18:55
SpamapSand the proxy is just uploading it as you. What about that doesn't allow you to then be a trusted user who can authenticate and share images?18:55
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SpamapSnikhil_k: ok, so the proxy needs some technical work to fix that bug. Is that really a reason to redesign the whole uploading process and make it 2x more complicated?18:55
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nikhil_kSpamapS: to understand you right - when you say proxy you mean "import process" ?18:56
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SpamapSNo I mean a proxy that listens on a port, and accepts images from users when given a token, and writes them to whatever backend driver exists.18:57
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SpamapSNothing you've said helps me understand why that is "bad".18:58
nikhil_kSpamapS: the problem is glance does not know how to deal with a extrememly slow connection18:58
nikhil_kalso, if you start uploading tons of images you can braing down glance18:58
SpamapSnikhil_k: that is not a design problem. That is an implementation problem.18:58
SpamapSIf you start uploading tons of images you can bring down swift.18:59
nikhil_kthat's the point of the import process18:59
nikhil_ka design change for "public glance" deployment18:59
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nikhil_kSpamapS: glance is a proxy and swift is a storage backend18:59
nikhil_kvery different specializations you see18:59
nikhil_kswift can better know how to deal with these issues18:59
nikhil_kand glance does not19:00
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nikhil_kthere is more to it19:00
SpamapSBut this isn't a design problem. Swift works with proxies and somehow gets those images into its own backend. Why can't we just teach swift-proxy to talk to glance store backends.19:00
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nikhil_kswift proxies are very swift specific19:01
nikhil_kthey know about the deployed swift architecture19:01
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nikhil_kthings like what the replication factor is, when and where to replicate, what's gone wrong, when to add more disks etc19:01
SpamapSSure, but they basically just accept big uploads and put them somewhere.19:02
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nikhil_kyeah19:02
nikhil_kthe rate limiting logic as well as accepting slow connections is handled extrememly vigilantly there19:02
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nikhil_kthere are some patents on that as well19:03
SpamapSlovely19:03
nikhil_kso makes some of that specific logic proprietary19:03
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SpamapSI still think you could make it a generic proxy.19:03
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nikhil_khmm, would be great to have it in Glance19:04
nikhil_kjust wondering if we can get some help on it. Because kilo is jam-packed with blueprints :/19:04
SpamapSWell I'm more just saying let users who don't want swift run a swift-proxy that accepts the uploads, but sends them wherever they really need to go.19:04
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nikhil_kah ok19:05
nikhil_kSpamapS: sorry, I need to run ...19:05
SpamapSAnyway, I understand what you're saying, and I think you understand what mordred and clarkb were saying.. that this needs to be automatically available in glanceclient and the Glance API spec, or it becomes a special snowflake.19:05
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nikhil_ksg19:05
nikhil_kSpamapS: thanks for the input.. would love to chat sometime again soon...19:07
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* nikhil_k *19:07
* nikhil_k &19:07
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sdaguejgriffith: as I don't see thingee on - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138832/19:28
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sdaguedhellmann: so is oslo not following a deprecation policy on options?20:24
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dhellmannsdague: options?20:37
sdaguehttps://github.com/openstack/oslo.messaging/commit/bcb3b23b8f6e7d01e38fdc031982558711bb758620:37
sdaguea config option was removed with no deprecation20:37
dhellmannmaybe sileht didn't realize that was used anywhere other than the unit tests of oslo.messaging20:38
sdagueso it doesn't matter if it's used anywhere20:38
sdagueoption removal requires a deprecation cycle20:38
sdaguethat's been pretty firm policy in openstack for a long time20:39
sdagueoptions moving out to libraries still have to follow that20:39
dhellmannwhat would you like me to do right now?20:39
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sdagueso that should probably revert and cut another release as an "oops"20:39
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dhellmannok, sileht runs that library, so you should talk to him about doing that20:40
sdagueand then deprecate for removal in 1.620:40
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sdagueI'm talking to you as the PTL to set the standards for the program20:40
sdaguebecause having to chase every library author gets out of hand20:41
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dhellmannI have a bunch of other things going on, so I'm telling you the right person who can deal with it right now20:41
sdaguesileht: ^^^20:41
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sdaguedhellmann: we also need to figure out a way to prevent that in the future from a program level, because basically the current guaruntee we've told users is null and void if an oslo library rips out options20:44
dhellmannthis doesn't look like a production-level option, so I think they assumed it wasn't being used20:45
jgriffithdhellmann: yeah, that's relatively fair.... but still20:45
dhellmannI think the mistake in judgement is smaller than you think20:45
dhellmannwe do not, as a rule, guarantee that configuration options are part of the stable API for consuming applications, just for deployers20:45
jgriffithsdague: dhellmann honestly though, what about gating lib updates?  Or is that absolute crazy talk?20:45
dhellmannjgriffith: we decided that would take too many test resources20:46
sdaguedhellmann: so that's a huge problem20:46
sdagueif that's the case we need to stop letting libraries use olso.config20:46
dhellmannsdague: if the problem here is that some unit tests were setting a config option, then we need to provide an API to do that instead of having them set the option directly20:47
sdagueno, the problem is because of oslo.config these are exposed all the way to the consuming application20:47
dhellmannI'm not saying this wasn't a mistake, just that it's not a world-ending situation20:47
sdagueso you have to provide deprecation, as a rule20:47
sdagueyeh, that's fine, in this instance. However I'm concerned about other instances. Because if it's not stuff that we happen to set during a grenade run, the code won't catch it20:48
sdagueand there are far too many config options to do that with20:48
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dhellmannhave there been cases where a production option was removed?20:49
sdagueI don't know20:49
sdaguebecause I never looked for it20:49
dhellmannwell, I believe the team knows not to do that, and I think they misjudged how this option was used. So until I hear otherwise from them, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.20:50
sdagueok20:50
dhellmannjgriffith: if you guys need some sort of fixture to set up messaging using a fake driver, and the current API doesn't support that, please have your liaison bring that up in the next oslo meeting or start a ML thread or something20:51
sdaguebut I don't buy the "it only applies to production options"20:51
sdaguebecause the whole point of the deprecation is to let peole know changes are coming, and them adapt to it20:51
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sdagueinstead of breaking other projects in a release20:51
dhellmannsdague: ok, we can disagree about that -- I'd like to not have any configuration options that aren't for production, so in practice it won't matter20:51
sdagueeven if just their tests20:51
jgriffithdhellmann: yeah, I think jungleboy is on that20:52
dhellmannjgriffith: cool20:52
jgriffithdhellmann: but that's not really the big thing to me right now TBH20:52
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dhellmannsdague: things are going to change in the libraries, and that's going to break stuff. We decided, as a group, not to gate the libraries on all of the unit tests of all of the applications. So, we're going to have to learn to just deal with these things calmly and file bugs or provide patches or whatever.20:53
dhellmannover time, we'll learn about what sorts of changes cause more trouble, and we'll provide fixtures or other APIs to deal with them20:53
sdaguedhellmann: sure20:53
sdaguebut removing config options I still say has to have deprecation20:53
sdaguethe nova unit test break was bad on nova20:54
sdaguethat was a bad mock20:54
dhellmannand normally I would agree, so I think we've circled back around20:54
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hemna_sdague, +121:10
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apeveczzzeek, I got trace from alembic in https://review.openstack.org/137580 - and prime suspect is alembic 0.7.1 released today, has this been reported to you already?22:01
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zzzeekapevec: alembic 0.7.1 in the past 30 mintues is breaking a test in neutron which alerted everyone to on monday, as well as proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/137989/22:02
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zzzeekerr which *I* alerted everyone to on monday22:02
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apeveczzzeek, nvm,  adam_g pointed me to https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/139779622:02
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1397796 in neutron "alembic v. 0.7.1 will support "remove_fk" and others not expected by heal_script" [Undecided,In progress]22:02
apevecwe need that backported to juno22:02
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apeveczzzeek, adam_g - oh it hasn't been merged to master yet!22:04
adam_gapevec, yeah :|22:04
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