Friday, 2014-10-03

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jogodevananda: ping01:54
devanandajogo: pong01:54
jogodevananda: just read your taxidermy errr taxonomy01:54
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devanandaheh01:55
jogoI like how you are focusing on what it means for testing01:55
devanandathanks01:55
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devanandait emerged from actually mapping out each functional/optional/mutual dependency01:55
jogodevananda: as if we don't sort out the testing thing soon, we will keep living in a world of hurt (for gate people)01:56
devanandayup01:56
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jogodevananda: it may be possible to actually model up the relationships in a graph (based on some machine readable file)01:56
devanandayes01:56
devanandajogo: we should definitely do that01:57
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devanandajogo: open question: where do python-*client libs fit into this model?01:57
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jogohttps://networkx.github.io/documentation/latest/reference/readwrite.yaml.html01:57
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jogotesting wise: python-*clients should IMHO have unit tests and functional test suites01:58
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devanandajogo: nova functionally depends on keystone -- they should cogate. but Nova actually depends also on python-keystoneclient.01:58
jogothey have a one way dependency  on the respective servers (and a few libraries ... but those are libraries)01:59
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devanandajogo: between any two services which have a one-way or mutual dependency, the client libs are PART of that dependency01:59
jogodevananda: hmm yeah nova depends on keystone via keystoneclient02:00
devanandajogo: i think the answer is we move towards more and more projects doing smaller versioned releases02:00
jogoor is it now keystonemiddleware02:00
devanandajogo: it's both02:00
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jogowhat does it use keystoneclient for?02:01
jogogit grep shows nothing02:01
devanandaoh. maybe not?02:01
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devanandarequirements.txt:python-keystoneclient>=0.10.002:02
jogoI am about to delete that02:02
jogoso if you can make a graph of all this02:02
jogodependencies that is, I think some of these answers become easier02:02
jogomaybe just a graph of a few projects02:02
devanandajogo: lines 64-8402:03
devanandajogo: also look at the pictures linked at the top of the etherpad :-D02:03
jogoa computer generated graph02:03
devanandaheh heh heh02:03
jogoor something machine readable02:03
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devanandajogo: so also, some of these are optional, and that bit is important02:04
jogoyeah that should be modelable02:04
jogohow would you graph: nova,novalcient,keystone,keystoneclient,cinder,cinderclient lets say02:05
devanandaeg, I'd consider a nova<->cinder relationship to be optional on Nova's side and non-optional on Cinder's side02:05
jogoright02:05
devanandayup02:05
jogobut there is also a cinderclient in the middle of that02:05
jogosomewhere02:05
devanandanova does not depend on cinder for its functional tests02:05
devanandaEXCEPT for the nova-volume functional tests02:05
jogowell nova does not have functional tests yet02:05
devanandas/does/would/02:05
jogoso lets hold off on mapping tests for a second02:05
devanandait's not a map of the tests we have today02:06
devanandait's a map of the functional dependencies between projects02:06
jogojust how do you map the service interactions02:06
devanandawhich informs us what we need to test02:06
jogocinder REQUIRES nova02:07
devanandaexactly02:07
devanandaone directional requirement02:07
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devanandaone direction is optional02:07
devanandaand IMHO, Nova should have the right to choose whether or not they want to co-gate with cinder02:07
jogonova CAN-USE Cinder via cinderclient02:07
devanandathey probably would02:07
devanandaand THAT would make cinder become part of the integrated gate02:08
jogodevananda: where does cinderclient fit in?02:08
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jogothat is what I want to know02:08
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devanandaI think nova -> cinderclient -> cinder02:10
devananda... I think02:10
devanandaso right now, we semver all the clients02:11
devanandabut we don't semver the server projects02:11
devanandawhcih makes that awkward02:11
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jogowell in *theory* we just care about API versions02:11
devanandaheh02:11
devanandatotally not what we *actuall* do02:11
jogoif that worked, it makes things better02:11
jogowe should push for that02:12
devanandawe develop features in project A which depend on tip of project B (and its client lib)02:12
devanandaand so project B releases micro versions of its client lib to satisfy project A02:12
devanandatoday ^02:12
jogowell we use trunk clients02:12
jogobut I agree that what you are saying is how we *should* do it02:13
devanandakeystonemiddleware?02:13
jogohmm not sure02:13
jogocheck pip freeze02:13
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jogokeystonemiddleware==1.2.1.dev2.gb99291c02:14
jogoodd02:14
devanandaright02:14
jogoversus -e git+https://git.openstack.org/openstack/python-neutronclient@fa5642f1550bc8f818c1686c40edbaf3672d356a#egg=python_neutronclient-master02:14
jogoneutronclient02:14
devanandaoh, so unit tests depend on pip02:14
devanandabut functional tests seem not to02:14
jogothat is taken from devstack02:14
devanandamordred says that devstack testing with pip installs of clients is on their todo list02:15
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jogodevananda: we do pip install today02:16
jogojust from trunk02:16
jogobut yeah02:16
jogoyou mean from releases02:16
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jogoso see the bottom of your etherpad02:16
devanandayea02:17
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jogoyup02:18
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jogocinder requires nova in another way though02:19
jogonot sure how to model that02:19
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jogocinder needs nova to set up the server and attach the volume02:20
devanandaright02:20
jogothat last line is too general02:20
jogoI think that is a transitive property02:20
jogoring0 should appear from the other things02:21
devanandait does02:21
devanandacinder is not part of ring002:21
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jogoso that looks pretty good I think02:28
jogodevananda: I think that sums up our dependency graph pretty well02:29
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devanandajogo: are you modeling both depends-on and requires?02:30
devanandaif not, we have some duplication02:30
jogoI am treating them as separate things02:30
jogorequires should have a 'through' clause02:31
jogorequires is I need to talk to keystone via the keystonemiddleware02:31
devanandak02:31
jogodepends-on is: I am cinder and the thing I produce isn't useful without nova02:31
jogobut I don't talk to it to do things for me02:31
jogoas a user I need need to create the volume first02:32
jogoand then tell cinder to attach it02:32
jogocinder doesn't require nova to do that02:32
jogobut it depends on nova to allow the user to do that02:32
devanandaright02:32
jogoso trove REQUIRES nova I think02:33
jogoas it talks to nova via novaclient to do things02:33
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devanandajogo: so we could probably model most of this by scraping requirements.txt files from all the projects02:36
devanandajogo: i think there'll be a few exceptions (like nova not requiring ironicclient)02:36
jogohmm maybe02:36
jogoalthough those files maybe out of date as we just saw02:36
devanandaabout to get a braindump from mordred02:37
jogodevananda: oh fun02:37
jogodevananda: in the etherpad?02:37
mordreddevananda, jogo: http://paste.openstack.org/show/117944/02:37
jogomordred: nice02:38
devanandayup. close. it doesn't show optional things, like nova-cinder, as optional02:38
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devanandabut it's a good start02:38
devanandaok, gonna run and get food02:38
jogowe cannot infer DEPENDS-ON from from requirements though02:38
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mordreddevananda, jogo: for f in $(find . -maxdepth 2 -type f -name requirements.txt) ; do dirname $f; grep python.*client $f; done02:39
mordredfwiw02:39
mordredjogo: you can't - BUT - it's a starting place02:39
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jogomordred: yeah02:41
jogonow to figure out how to graph that02:41
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jogomordred: I have a graph I think03:07
jogodevananda mordred: nova glance keystone03:09
jogohttp://i.imgur.com/fXfRl8S.png03:09
jogocode: http://paste.openstack.org/show/11795403:09
morganfainbergjogo, whats that graph of?03:09
jogomorganfainberg: see bottom of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/in-pursuit-of-a-new-taxonomy03:09
morganfainbergaha ty03:09
jogomorganfainberg: devananda and I have been playing around with modeling dependencies03:09
morganfainbergjogo, cool03:10
jogomorganfainberg: I think it will be easier to reason about things if we have a pretty graph03:12
morganfainbergjogo, ++03:12
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jogodevananda: got it working04:21
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jogodevananda morganfainberg; https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/blob/master/openstack.yaml04:22
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jogocreates http://i.imgur.com/o8uuid1.png04:23
jogomordred: ^04:24
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jogomost recent graph: its getting ugly http://i.imgur.com/zR5sU62.png04:30
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nkinderjogo: the "keystonemiddleware" label seems unnecessary since it's implied by every arrow that points to keystone, right?04:33
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nkinderjogo: it will still be ugly, but removing those might clean it up a bit :)04:34
jogonkinder: yup04:35
jogojust removed them before I saw your comment04:35
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jogonkinder: http://i.imgur.com/D7oiUbN.png04:36
nkinderjogo: you have less wavy lines at least :)04:36
jogoyup04:36
morganfainbergjogo is there a max # of lines you have set?04:37
morganfainbergnoticed some of the lines aren't drawn on your graph04:37
morganfainbergbased on the yaml04:38
jogosuch as?04:38
morganfainbergwhoopse misread the yaml04:38
morganfainbergnvm04:38
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morganfainbergyou do have swift and ironic in there twice though :P04:39
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morganfainbergcool to see it graphed out like that04:39
jogomorganfainberg: fixed it04:40
jogomorganfainberg: yeah04:40
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morganfainbergjogo, i *think* swift CANUSE keystone, but not sure that is relevant on this graph.04:40
jogomorganfainberg: you are correct04:41
jogowe might as well include all links04:41
morganfainbergjogo, whelp, totally digging the graph.04:41
nkindermorganfainberg: my understanding is that it can use keystone, or it can use swauth04:41
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morganfainbergjogo, def should help with conversations04:41
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nkinder+1  The graph is cool04:41
jogonkinder: right so CANUSE should do it04:41
morganfainbergbut i think it's something not keystonemiddleware04:42
morganfainbergsomething swift specific04:42
* morganfainberg really should know this... but its late04:42
nkindermorganfainberg: swauth == swiftauth AFAIK04:42
morganfainbergnkinder, yah04:42
morganfainbergnkinder, the keystone side, i think swift can use multiple types of auth04:42
morganfainbergnkinder, at once04:42
jogomorganfainberg: yeah the yaml file isn't 100% accurate I bet04:42
jogobut the goal of this was to be able to model all this04:43
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morganfainbergjogo, nice work dude :)04:43
jogoI am calling it quits for the night as I haven't really had dinner yet04:43
jogomorganfainberg: pull requests are welcome :)04:43
morganfainberghah, go eat man04:43
jogogonna send this to the ML first04:43
morganfainbergjogo, def. i'll add anything i think of via pull req04:43
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jogoanyway o/04:47
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ttxmed_: as needed06:31
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annegentledhellmann: when you have a minute, let's talk about config options doc bugs13:44
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notmynamettx: swift 2.2.0 is ready except for the last patch I'll be doing on the plane today. when that lands I'll send you the SHA and we'll have the juno RC14:08
ttxnotmyname: sounds good14:08
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sdagueany heat folks around?14:45
sdagueis update_stack a sync or async call?14:45
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jogodevananda: thanks for the pull request the graph is looking neat http://i.imgur.com/ANyDSg5.png15:43
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jogosdague: ^15:44
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flashgordonmordred: ^ pretty pictures15:45
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sdaguetrove hard requires neutron?15:46
flashgordonsdague: not sure about the data in that TBH, devananda did a bunch and its hard to figure out what things actually15:46
sdagueso the problem with graphviz is that it doesn't really spatially group things15:46
flashgordonare15:46
flashgordonsdague: we are pretending nova-network doesn't exist as well15:46
sdagueok15:47
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flashgordonif we can get better data, hopefully this can be useful for sorting out testing and groupings/layers etc15:48
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flashgordonflaper87: trying to map how OpenStack services are related, maybe you have some answers for a few https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/blob/master/openstack.yaml15:49
flaper87flashgordon: looking15:49
mordredsdague: yah - we're starting with inferred relationships due to client libs and then expanding with brains15:49
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flashgordonflaper87: I was thinking you may know about zaqar and glance15:50
flaper87flashgordon: yeah, already adding some15:50
flaper87:)15:50
flashgordonmordred: oh I should add data from your paste from last night15:50
flaper87wait for the PR15:50
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mordredflaper87: what's read arrows?15:51
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flashgordonmordred: red arrows are depends on15:51
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mordredflashgordon: what are black then?15:52
mordredI get that grey is optional :)15:52
flashgordonflaper87: as in cinder depends on nova (not just by directly talking to the REST API via the pythonclient) but by needing nova to talk to it to do some things15:52
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mordredflashgordon: gotcha15:53
flashgordonmordred: here is the key: https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack15:54
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flashgordonI guess a better way to think of depends on is, where the dependent service must be available to the user15:54
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flashgordonwhile requires means if X REQUIRES Y, Y must be available to X15:55
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flashgordonmordred: hopefully we can make testing rules based on a graph like this. for example things that have a depend-on relationship should be co-gated15:58
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flashgordonwhile things that nothing requires or even can-use should not be co-gated (heat, horizon)15:59
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flaper87flashgordon: PR your way16:01
flaper87flashgordon: https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/pull/216:01
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mordredflaper87: have you seen deva's and my original strawman for that?16:03
mordredgah16:03
mordredflaper87: sorry, that was supposed to be flashgordon ^^16:03
mordredflashgordon: in short - I agree with you ... although I think there are some areas where we need to apply judgement on top of the logic16:04
flaper87mordred: you meant flashgordon ? :D16:05
flashgordonmordred: I saw a bit but I ignored it since it was hand drawn16:05
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flashgordoncinder can use glance16:06
flashgordonand glance can use cinder?16:06
flashgordonthat is fun16:06
flaper87flashgordon: yup16:07
flaper87flashgordon: to be fair, as of now, glance can barely use cinder16:07
flaper87but it can16:07
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flashgordonflaper87: here is the latest http://i.imgur.com/y8zmNIM.png16:09
* flaper87 clicks16:09
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flashgordonmordred: things are starting to look really complex, it turns out placement in graph layout is a really hard problem16:09
* flaper87 wonders what would happen if keystone would suddenly implode and dissapear16:09
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flashgordonflaper87: hehe yeah16:10
flashgordonhow does the cinder glance loop work?16:10
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flaper87flashgordon: it's not related. Cinder can use glance to create volumes from images16:11
flaper87and glance can retrieve images from volumes16:11
flaper87"not related in terms of feature/task/actions/whatever"*16:12
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flaper87mmh, trove requires swift. interesting16:13
flaper87wait, why?16:14
flaper87OMG, that's news to me16:14
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clarkbbackups16:16
flashgordonflaper87: it may be a can-use16:16
flashgordonnot sure16:16
flashgordonwe need a trove person to say16:16
flaper87iccha: ^ ?16:16
clarkbits for db dump backup storage16:16
* dimsum_ notes that flashgordon loves graphs16:17
flaper87iccha: is the dependency between trove and swift optional?16:17
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clarkbI would say that is a relatively strong requirement16:17
flashgordondimsum_: I do16:17
flashgordondimsum_: but in this case I like the YAML better https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/blob/master/openstack.yaml16:18
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dimsum_flashgordon: i was chewing on using the config files in different projects to generate the relation, this is better!16:20
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flashgordondimsum_: we don't have all the data that we need stored in machine readable formats yet16:21
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flashgordonrequires vs. can use etc16:22
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dimsum_yep16:22
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dimsum_flashgordon: typo alert in the yaml keystonemiddleware16:23
mordredflashgordon: it requires16:23
mordredflashgordon: trove requires swift16:23
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flaper87mordred: to do what?16:24
flaper87I should probably read the docs16:24
clarkbdb backups...16:25
flaper87clarkb: ah, mmh16:25
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mordredit's not optional - if you want to backups, you swift16:26
flashgordonmordred: requires it is16:27
flashgordoneglynn_: ping16:27
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flashgordonwe are missing data for ceilometer http://i.imgur.com/y8zmNIM.png  https://github.com/jogo/graphing-openstack/blob/master/openstack.yaml16:28
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clarkbflashgordon flaper87 a better output format may be something like a diagram of overlapping sets16:31
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clarkbthat conveys transitive and common deps16:31
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flashgordonclarkb: want to give that a try?16:33
flashgordonclarkb: I am not sure how to do that16:33
clarkbme either :)16:33
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flashgordonclarkb: I think there are some tools that may generate that data but not sure16:34
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flashgordonclarkb: least we don't have too many loops16:35
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icchaflaper87: we store our backups in swift16:42
icchawhat clarkb and modred said16:42
flaper87iccha: yeah, I just found out. thanks :)16:42
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_Joshua__another simple question.  how do i create a vm that boots off the network (pxe boot).  i am using icehouse.17:15
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rodrigodsme and vsilva were trying to add some checks in the setUpClass from a test in keystoneclient. It seems to be never called. Does anyone know how to fix it, or have better ideas? You can check the current state of the review here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/123619/19:15
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chmouelreed: i think you forgot to add the subtitle to the osreaction picture http://www.openstack.org/blog/2014/10/openstack-community-weekly-newsletter-sep-26-oct-3/ which may be out of context about the end which give information abotu the newsletter23:43
reedchmouel, ? let me check23:43
reedgot messed up23:44
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reedchmouel, thanks, I think I fixed it now23:46
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reedchmouel, great pic as usual, makes me giggle every friday :)23:47
chmouelhehheh, glad you like it :)23:47
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chmouelreed: i was thinking i will be running out of ideas but it keeps going23:47
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reedyeah, it's great :)23:48
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