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| jgriffith | ttx: disregard my earlier ping... happy new year | 01:00 |
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| abhisheks91 | alex_xu: hi | 09:23 |
| alex_xu | abhisheks91, hi | 09:23 |
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| orion195 | hi guys | 10:23 |
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| orion195 | quick question about openstack and ceph | 10:23 |
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| orion195 | I'm getting: Error: missing keyring, cannot use cephx for authentication | 10:24 |
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| orion195 | I have ceph 0.72.2 | 10:24 |
| orion195 | ndipanov: ahoj | 10:24 |
| ndipanov | orion195, hey | 10:24 |
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| anteaya | morganfainberg: for when you are around https://review.openstack.org/#/c/63809/ | 15:18 |
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| lcheng | Hello, has anyone experienced issue with devstack install failing on glance upload? I am getting stuck at glance upload timing out. | 16:28 |
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| openstackstatus | NOTICE: gating is severely hampered while we attempt to sort out the impact of the pip 1.5 release... no ETA for solution yet | 16:58 |
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| openstackstatus | NOTICE: gating is severely hampered while we attempt to sort out the impact of today's pip 1.5/virtualenv 1.11 releases... no ETA for solution yet | 17:07 |
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| mriedem | bknudson: ping | 17:25 |
| bknudson | mriedem: what's up? | 17:26 |
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| mriedem | bknudson: hey, you said that auth_protocol defaulting to https for keystoneclient middleware changed recently, but i'm not finding what recently changed that from http to https? | 17:26 |
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| russellb | doesn't look like it | 17:27 |
| russellb | see keystoneclient https://review.openstack.org/#/c/62815/ | 17:27 |
| russellb | Nov 2012, when auth_token was merged to keystoneclient, had it as https | 17:27 |
| russellb | err, wrong link | 17:28 |
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| russellb | 7920899af119d1697c333d202ca3272f167c19b0 | 17:28 |
| russellb | that commit. | 17:28 |
| bknudson | y, I could swear I saw this change recently, but maybe I'm just remembering the bugs when people upgraded. | 17:28 |
| russellb | it looks like our problem here is that nova used to provide its own auth_token defaults | 17:29 |
| russellb | and now it's not, and gets defaults from keystoneclient directly ... and they are different | 17:29 |
| russellb | which is probably OK ... just needs to be documented in release notes, and tagged in the commit message as mriedem requested | 17:30 |
| russellb | mriedem: you know ... that commit may deserve DocImpact as well. Seems like every UpgradeImpact would also be DocImpact | 17:30 |
| mriedem | yeah, looking at the keystoneclient auth_token.py it even calls out the alternative config in nova: https://github.com/openstack/python-keystoneclient/blob/master/keystoneclient/middleware/auth_token.py#L189 | 17:30 |
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| mriedem | russellb: yeah, you're right: http://docs.openstack.org/havana/install-guide/install/yum/content/nova-compute.html | 17:32 |
| mriedem | step 3 says to modify nova.conf with keystone_authtoken vlaues | 17:32 |
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| mriedem | *values | 17:33 |
| bknudson | so nova config was setting config options where it didn't like the default and now it's not? | 17:33 |
| russellb | not exactly | 17:33 |
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| bknudson | because config file generator doesn't allow overriding default options? | 17:33 |
| russellb | it was really just intended as the sample config | 17:33 |
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| russellb | and we didn't have a way to automatically generate sample config for stuff outside of nova before | 17:33 |
| russellb | so we had our own for that part | 17:33 |
| russellb | which happened to set the values and not leave them commented out and show defaults ... | 17:34 |
| russellb | so *shrug* | 17:34 |
| russellb | the new way is better | 17:34 |
| russellb | just need to document the change | 17:34 |
| bknudson | the sample config had other stuff "admin_tenant_name = %SERVICE_TENANT_NAME%" -- what was this supposed to do? | 17:35 |
| bknudson | did devstack use it and replace those strings? | 17:35 |
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| russellb | no idea | 17:36 |
| mriedem | cinder is doing the same directly in cinder.conf, so they would eventually have the same issue if they use the oslo config generator | 17:36 |
| mriedem | https://github.com/openstack/cinder/blob/master/etc/cinder/cinder.conf.sample#L1856 | 17:36 |
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| russellb | not surprising, probably copy from nova | 17:37 |
| mriedem | and glance | 17:37 |
| mriedem | yeah | 17:37 |
| russellb | should use git.openstack.org :-) | 17:37 |
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| mriedem | a 2014 resolution? | 17:37 |
| russellb | sure | 17:37 |
| mriedem | but no blame | 17:38 |
| bknudson | doesn't look like devstack uses the sample conf file. | 17:38 |
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| mriedem | nova icehouse upgrade nodes updated: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse#Upgrade_Notes_2 | 17:41 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, should Andreas Jaegar be approving changes to the identity-api? | 17:41 |
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| morganfainberg | anteaya, yay! | 18:08 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, ping | 18:17 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, ping | 18:37 |
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| bknudson | morganfainberg: what's up? | 18:48 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, wanted to chat about the domain stuff | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, i saw the dependant change, i wasn't sure if we wanted to have that functionality (or even test it) if we're ripping it out | 19:01 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i figure we need to make a solid decision on it for Icehouse and either support the concept of containers for users like that in a single idp, or rip that out | 19:01 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: maybe the auth tests should use sql rather than kvs. | 19:02 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: so the test is to make sure that we get the user from the correct domain | 19:03 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: how to test if we can only have 1 domain? | 19:03 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, well, because i want to remove the concept of "domains" from the user and encode the user_id with the IDP for multi-idp setups | 19:03 |
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| morganfainberg | the only issue is trying to figure out read-write idp and who can "manage" them | 19:04 |
| morganfainberg | since i want to make it so assignment doesn't get tied up in idenitty | 19:04 |
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| bknudson | morganfainberg: you're going to have a lot of tests to rewrite! | 19:06 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i know | 19:06 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, it's what the chain of "cleanup" is leading towards. | 19:06 |
| morganfainberg | because i needed to make sure we limited where the domain lookups needed to occur | 19:06 |
| morganfainberg | sorry... user idp lookups | 19:06 |
| morganfainberg | eventually i want to see the "idenitty | 19:07 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: I think the bug that I'm fixing is bad enough that it should be backported... I don't care if the code just gets removed later. | 19:07 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 19:07 |
| morganfainberg | then i'll remove the -1. that is justification enough for me | 19:07 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, -1 removed, haven't looked over the details enough to +2 it yet though. | 19:09 |
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| bknudson | morganfainberg: here's the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1265108 -- does that make sense? | 19:11 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1265108 in keystone "Changing default_domain_id doesn't work" [Undecided,In progress] | 19:11 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: the change to add namespace support to kvs is probably not backportable. so maybe I should split that out. | 19:12 |
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| bknudson | (split the test that requires it out from the other tests) | 19:13 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: ping | 19:17 |
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| bknudson | stevemar: what's up? | 19:18 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, i added you as a reviewer to a patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/64349/ was wondering if you could chime in | 19:19 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, i noticed it myself a few days before the change set was uploaded, and was going to ping you about it when the holidays were over, but you seem to be here now | 19:19 |
| bknudson | stevemar: aren't the holidays over? | 19:20 |
| stevemar | bknudson, debatable | 19:23 |
| stevemar | bknudson, in short, when the oauth plugin is used to authenticate, it comes up as 'oauth is disabled', looked it up with the debugger, and oauth_api is definitely coming up as None, which triggered that message | 19:24 |
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| stevemar | but when i ran the tests, oauth_api was defined, and the auth part worked | 19:25 |
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| bknudson | stevemar: it's too bad we don't have unit tests that reflect how the server actually starts. | 19:29 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, yeah it seems like this part: https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/9f688a22b07bcbb46ed3bf86c66ed8dd42e0a1a9/keystone/tests/core.py#L353 is working fine | 19:36 |
| bknudson | anyone see this with devstack with neutron? sqlalchemy.exc.ProgrammingError: (ProgrammingError) (1146, "Table 'neutron_ml2.agents' doesn't exist") ... | 19:37 |
| bknudson | stevemar: right, but the tests are different than how the server starts up... | 19:37 |
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| bknudson | because when the server starts the oauth plugin isn't loaded until the paste pipeline is loaded up | 19:38 |
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| bknudson | stevemar: so the assumption that all the backends are loaded when service.load_backends calls dependency.resolve_future_dependencies() is not correct | 19:39 |
| stevemar | bknudson, just trying to understand things.. if we added 'include_oauth1=True' to https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/bin/keystone-all#L129 , it would load right? obviously not a full solution | 19:45 |
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| bknudson | stevemar: if we did that then oauth1 would load all the time, and we want it to be optional. | 19:47 |
| bknudson | (only enabled if it's added to the paste pipeline) | 19:47 |
| stevemar | yeah, was just trying to get a feel for how it works | 19:48 |
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| stevemar | bknudson - we could look @ the paste file in keystone-all, and see if it's there | 19:49 |
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| bknudson | stevemar: dependency.resolve_future_dependencies() here https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/9f688a22b07bcbb46ed3bf86c66ed8dd42e0a1a9/keystone/service.py#L68 | 19:51 |
| bknudson | should be moved to after the paste pipeline is loaded. | 19:51 |
| bknudson | which is here: https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/9f688a22b07bcbb46ed3bf86c66ed8dd42e0a1a9/bin/keystone-all#L139 | 19:52 |
| bknudson | (I think) | 19:52 |
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| stevemar | bknudson after the serve call here: https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/9f688a22b07bcbb46ed3bf86c66ed8dd42e0a1a9/bin/keystone-all | 19:57 |
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| stevemar | oops, you already found that, actually, before the serve call is better | 19:58 |
| stevemar | bknudson, what about here: https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/9f688a22b07bcbb46ed3bf86c66ed8dd42e0a1a9/httpd/keystone.py | 19:58 |
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| bknudson | stevemar: right, both the keystone-all and httpd/keystone path will have to work correctly (and keystone-manage?) | 19:59 |
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| stevemar | not sure about keystone-manage | 20:01 |
| bknudson | stevemar: I tried to put a change together that brought these 2 startup paths together but it was too ugly... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/62275/ | 20:01 |
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| stevemar | bknudson hmm... didn't you have another like that, i thought i reviewed something similar | 20:02 |
| stevemar | i likied where it was heading | 20:02 |
| bknudson | stevemar: well, maybe it's not so bad... at least it puts the 2 parts that do load_bakends into the same directory. | 20:03 |
| bknudson | stevemar: it's the same review, I just added more to it. | 20:03 |
| bknudson | stevemar: this is where it was heading. | 20:03 |
| stevemar | hmm, i thought i actually +1'ed or -1'ed it, /me shrugs | 20:04 |
| bknudson | stevemar: if you take a look at it and like it, or like parts of it, I can remove my -1. | 20:04 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, so quick question for you... | 21:04 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, if you're around | 21:04 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, do you see an issue with a single "IDP" admin flag that allows user/group management in all read-write idps in keystone (as an initial pass)? | 21:04 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, ^ | 21:04 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, or do we need a per-idp admin concept? | 21:05 |
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| morganfainberg | e.g. SQL and LDAP both being read/write. one being for internal-users (service accounts?) and the second for something else. | 21:05 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: for example with ldap it would be stupid to allow keystone to update users/groups | 21:06 |
| bknudson | they should be doing that through ldap | 21:06 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, again, for the case of someone using keystone's crud | 21:06 |
| bknudson | we should move the sql backend out to its own server and have it work the same way | 21:06 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, thats my eventual goal | 21:07 |
| morganfainberg | but it's all about baby-steps | 21:07 |
| bknudson | for someone using keystone's crud I would say it doesn't matter since they can switch away from it if they want. | 21:07 |
| bknudson | so I would be fine with a single IDP admin flag. | 21:07 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ok so, single "user/group admin" attribute that is global for all read-write idps makes sense | 21:07 |
| morganfainberg | like i said, initial first pass stuff | 21:07 |
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| bknudson | by first-pass do you mean this is what's available in icehouse? | 21:08 |
| morganfainberg | because there is a lot of identity-api changes to split SQL out, and i am not 100% convinced icehouse will be able to do them all. | 21:08 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, a stepping stone so that we have something functional for icehouse if we don't get further | 21:09 |
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| morganfainberg | if i can get further along, awesome, but i want to make sure we have something solid to land on if needed. | 21:09 |
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| bknudson | morganfainberg: did you mean admin "flag" or admin "role" ? | 21:10 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, why? | 21:10 |
| morganfainberg | i am trying ot break the need for a "domain" construct to manage users | 21:10 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, lets not make any more special roles. | 21:11 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, ah.... | 21:11 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, because we should have called it IdP? | 21:11 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, correct, and it shouldn't be tied tightly to assignment | 21:11 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, so...I am not certain that IdP is a drop in replacement for Domain anyway | 21:11 |
| morganfainberg | there is no reason why one domain in assignment should be special... or required to make identity work | 21:12 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, it seems to me that even if we had not put projects under domains, we would have ended up with IdPs and Domains as abstractions anyway | 21:12 |
| ayoung | I think it is OK to leave the users under a domain..Domains *own* things | 21:12 |
| ayoung | I think we are going to need some top level container | 21:13 |
| ayoung | for owning/managing other things...might as well be domains. | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, eh, more like a container for users/groups (e.g. IDP) | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | and something for assignment | 21:13 |
| ayoung | So Idp is different...it is a remote service | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ok so.. something else | 21:13 |
| ayoung | one Idp could server multiple domains | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | no | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | a "domain" in assignment is an abstract that doesn't care waht users are assigned into it | 21:14 |
| ayoung | Yers it could...that is pretty much the dchadwick approach with AbFab | 21:14 |
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| morganfainberg | ugh | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | doesn't solve anything then | 21:14 |
| ayoung | so...leave domains as a top level container...let Domain manage things in both Identity and Assignements | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | the container for users should not be tied tightly ot the container for projects | 21:14 |
| ayoung | They can be the same *type* of container, even if they are not the same instance. | 21:15 |
| morganfainberg | then we should break cross-domain assignments | 21:15 |
| ayoung | A domain is something that owns things. Period | 21:15 |
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| ayoung | cross-dom assignments are fine | 21:15 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, except it is _very_ hard to communicate that | 21:15 |
| morganfainberg | and makes it hard to develop for it | 21:16 |
| morganfainberg | the container for users/groups should not be the same type of container as for projects | 21:16 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, To paraphrase the Rabbis "Why is this topic different from all other topics?" | 21:16 |
| ayoung | Domains are containers for *all* things | 21:16 |
| ayoung | airplanes can fly people and equipment | 21:16 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, fundamentally i think we're doing it wrong in that case. | 21:17 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, it's not about the airplane | 21:17 |
| ayoung | you don 't need a different container for each of those. The real question is how should we be managing domains. | 21:17 |
| morganfainberg | it's about the passenger section vs. cargho | 21:17 |
| morganfainberg | and yes you do | 21:17 |
| morganfainberg | you can put cargo into the passenger section and vice versa, but it's far form optimal | 21:18 |
| morganfainberg | and in some cases, could cause issues | 21:18 |
| morganfainberg | major issues . | 21:18 |
| ayoung | http://vivin.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/can-of-whoop-ass.jpg | 21:18 |
| ayoung | You just need the seats | 21:18 |
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| bknudson | I don't want to ride in the cargo hold. | 21:19 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, thats my point. | 21:19 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, we had this argument at the summit | 21:19 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, the current implementation of "domains" is insufficient for users and projects | 21:20 |
| ayoung | bknudson, morganfainberg stop being such a baby and get on the cart. | 21:20 |
| bknudson | ayoung: why would identity providers have assignments stuff (projects) ? | 21:20 |
| ayoung | So..the Cargo hold is the assignments backend. The passender compartment is the Identity backend. And the domain is the airplane | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | i want to get to the point where the IDPs are the same, regardless if they are federated or not | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | and in the current incarnation, that is flatly not going to be possible | 21:21 |
| bknudson | I think it's pretty cold in the cargo hold. | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | no idp should be domain "aware". just provide dumb user/group information | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | and any backend should work the same, or multiple backends. | 21:22 |
| morganfainberg | s/federated/SAML-or-whatever-we-are-aiming-for | 21:22 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, but it's far better if you have a passenger plane that does passenger plane stuff, and a c130 that is more targeted for cargo | 21:23 |
| morganfainberg | yanno | 21:23 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: what ops would idp provide? get_user(), get_group(), is_user_member_of_group(), etc ... | 21:23 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, pretty much | 21:23 |
| morganfainberg | and if we provide crud capabilities on that, crud for user/group | 21:24 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, mostly what the identity_core (minus maybe list_users, list_groups) manager implements. | 21:24 |
| bknudson | let's not provide crud. | 21:24 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, bknudson from a tabula raisa I might agree with you, but we've already carved Domains into concrete. Renaming things is going to be more pain than it is worth. Look at the tenants v. projects mess. | 21:25 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, domains for users and groups are used... limitedly | 21:25 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: but what about assignment stuff? get_project(), get_roles_for_user(), etc? | 21:25 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, nope..people using domains extensively. | 21:26 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, then we need a v4 | 21:26 |
| bknudson | ayoung: we already had the idea of having a different backend per domain, so we had this already. | 21:26 |
| ayoung | No | 21:26 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yep | 21:26 |
| ayoung | no was to "v4" | 21:26 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, and that code is... not functional. | 21:26 |
| ayoung | We just need to accept the current situation | 21:26 |
| ayoung | and make it work..I don't thiunk it is that bad | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, and i don't think it's easily or cleanly fixable | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | it's going to be a horrible hack. we'd be better ripping it out | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | and not supporting that | 21:27 |
| ayoung | we just need to be clear that Domains are top level namespaces, regardless of what we are talking about. | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | support the federated identity providers (SAML etc), and one internal idp | 21:27 |
| morganfainberg | and leave it at that | 21:27 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: what's different between what you're proposing now and having a different backend per domain? | 21:28 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, the approach i'm trying to use removes the need for the _assignment_ domain constructs to support identity user providing. | 21:29 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, my end goal is to make all users/groups be provided to keystone in the same way. e.g. you'd not have an internal user/group provider | 21:29 |
| morganfainberg | it would talk something like SAML or whatever the choice would be to provide users/group information | 21:29 |
| morganfainberg | all user/group information is provided ina similar (read: through what we call federated today) mechanism | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | meaning you don't need the SQL backend,... or you could have 5 sql backends. | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | or a mix of sql and ldap | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | this was to support the per-domain-identity-backend mechanisms without the headaches we had. though, tbh, i think we'd be better just pulling that code out and have one internal idp. | 21:31 |
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| morganfainberg | and external provided via federation (or what we call federation for ease of talking) | 21:31 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: why aren't we doing what you think is better? | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, because after rounds and rounds of dicussion it seemed like there was a lot of drive for the multiple idp backend support | 21:33 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, and if there is a lot of drive for that, i can't say it's a "bad" idea, and i see usecases. | 21:33 |
| ayoung | again, blank slate I'd be all for it. But we have the SQL ID provider..lets justy accept that a huge number of users are using it and removing it is not going to happen | 21:34 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, do you see an issue with removing the per-backend-identity code that is... not happy and leverage the federation work for non-internal identity services? | 21:34 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, lets face it, you, bknudson and I are Zookeepers. | 21:34 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, aside from "ytoo much to review and not enough people to review it/" | 21:35 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, because i really, really think "fixing" that code in the current design is going to net us a lot of edge case issues. | 21:35 |
| morganfainberg | and maintenance hell | 21:35 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, what kind of stuff are you thinking of removing? | 21:36 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, the per-domain-identity backends | 21:36 |
| bknudson | you think zookeeping is going to be glamorous but it's mostly cleaning up. | 21:36 |
| morganfainberg | you get one internal idp, and federation for external idps | 21:36 |
| bknudson | I thought we should have removed per-domain-identity before... isn't it disabled? | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and with that setup, my complaints about design and domain vs domain vs domain is gone | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, it is ... marked as expirimental at best | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | but it was slated to be fixed in icehouse. | 21:37 |
| ayoung | hmmm | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, the code doesn't really work as is. | 21:37 |
| ayoung | what is our multiple LDAP story then? Run separate Keystone servers? | 21:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, build something to talk "federated" speak instead of trying to wedge that into the current design | 21:38 |
| morganfainberg | ? | 21:38 |
| morganfainberg | it would need to conform to the "external" idp concept rather than the built-into-keystone-internal one | 21:39 |
| bknudson | ayoung: isn't LDAP an idp? | 21:39 |
| Ryan_Lane | bknudson: no | 21:39 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, let me reserve judgement on that. If Henrynash were heads down making it happen, I would tell you to have patience on it...but he seems to have been redirected somewhat | 21:39 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, he's talking about 2 ldap servers as the base identity providers. | 21:39 |
| ayoung | bknudson, LDAP is the backing store for an IdP | 21:40 |
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| ayoung | Saying LDAP is to Ryan_Lane as saying Flthan is to ______ | 21:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | heh | 21:41 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, the short of it is I think we will need Henrynash's work to be completed.... | 21:41 |
| Ryan_Lane | I have a pager for LDAP in my client | 21:41 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i think we solve the same target if we work to make secondary LDAP providers speak the same as any other external IDP (SAML, etc) | 21:41 |
| morganfainberg | and... it means we have less complexity to support internally. | 21:41 |
| bknudson | ayoung: ok, then you have 2 idp's and 2 ldaps for multi-ldap | 21:42 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, so like 2 AD forests? | 21:42 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, ... lets drive home on the things we have in front of us...I think you ahve some decent idea here, but we are really, really, really cutting it close to our self inflicted deadline of I2... | 21:43 |
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| ayoung | I think we have a moritorium on all design decisions that can't possible get in before I2 | 21:43 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and i think we don't need henrynash's work finished | 21:43 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, good thing, cuz I doubt he'll get it done by the end of January | 21:43 |
| morganfainberg | i think we should back it out and try again in a more supportable manner (e.g. federated) | 21:44 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I'm far more interested in your KVS work | 21:44 |
| ayoung | and in getting revocations done right | 21:44 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, which is targeted for i3 | 21:44 |
| morganfainberg | and just recently got more reviews | 21:44 |
| ayoung | and in fixing our v2/v3 interop story | 21:44 |
| ayoung | which is a client issue | 21:44 |
| ayoung | and straightening out Federation itself | 21:45 |
| ayoung | "Juno can take the rest." | 21:45 |
| morganfainberg | well, in either case you can -2 it if you want, but i'm going to propose yanking the per-identity-backends out . | 21:45 |
| morganfainberg | and slate coming back to it from the federation standpoint next cycle | 21:46 |
| morganfainberg | and the kvs stuff will move forward as i get reviews on it. | 21:46 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, OK, here' s how I see that stuff: | 21:46 |
| ayoung | LDAP is a pain, but it is a pain due to long experience | 21:47 |
| ayoung | multiple LDAPs are going to be be rare | 21:47 |
| ayoung | so we can de-priporitize that | 21:47 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: I'm find with removing the per-identity-backends since it doesn't work. | 21:47 |
| bknudson | ayoung: what about multiple IdPs ? | 21:47 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, multiple IdPs externalk to Keystone means that Keystone should be able to consue other protocols, but using it as a way tpo split Keystone itself...I want to reserve judgement | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, and it will make continued maintenance on what we have easier. less code to worry about breaking when changing things / moving forward. | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | much fewer edge cases. | 21:48 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, the idea of splitting keystone was somerthing i was going to think about proposing for the next summit | 21:48 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, or the one following | 21:49 |
| morganfainberg | long-term thoughts | 21:49 |
| ayoung | I think we have bigger fish to fry, and "cleanup" like that is a Juno topic. Can we table it until then? | 21:49 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, sure, if we're scrapping the current impl of that stuff, its easy to table the split. | 21:49 |
| morganfainberg | federation is needed first anyways | 21:49 |
| morganfainberg | (meaning, wouldn't hit for I-2 anyway) | 21:50 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, so have no deisre to make the Keystone protocol do things it is not well designed to do. It really doesn't do authentication, just authorization, and with that, I would like to keep it as internal as possible. If we are going to split Keystone, I would want to do so in the light of decent Authentication, and that doesn 't mean SAML. | 21:50 |
| ayoung | It means PKI or Kerberos, and that is beyond what we should be doing | 21:51 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, whatever the choice to back the authn is irrelevant. | 21:51 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, the plan is to make the idp parts all talk the same | 21:51 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, not to "back" the authn...to enforce it. | 21:51 |
| morganfainberg | if it means using krb5 or pki, or... somethign else | 21:52 |
| morganfainberg | it isn't the reason for the split in my mind. | 21:52 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, There are 2 ways to secure web traffic: X509 client certs and Kerberos....anyone that says differently is selling something...that I don't want to buy | 21:52 |
| ayoung | So...lets not discuss putting bandaids on sucking chestwounds .... | 21:53 |
| ayoung | have I mixed enough meta fours? | 21:53 |
| morganfainberg | you missed the car metaphor | 21:53 |
| morganfainberg | sorry | 21:53 |
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| morganfainberg | and i think we're only at 2, bandaids and planes | 21:53 |
| morganfainberg | not four | 21:53 |
| morganfainberg | :P | 21:54 |
| morganfainberg | though i'm not sure how placing a bandair on an airplane will solve anything | 21:54 |
| morganfainberg | bandaid* | 21:54 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, bknudson, ok i think we can solve my complaints and put us at a good place for Juno easily. and make maintenance and work going into juno cleaner. | 21:55 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, what in the KVS stack needs reviewing? My queue runneth over | 21:56 |
| morganfainberg | without drastically restructuring domains | 21:56 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, bknudson gave a bunch of feedback on the non-expiry keys yesterday i think | 21:56 |
| morganfainberg | that was where things were sitting. | 21:56 |
| ayoung | cool | 21:56 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, so that probably needs to be split into 2-3 patchsets. | 21:56 |
| ayoung | lets get that done...and I need to go work on revocations.... | 21:56 |
| morganfainberg | but, it'll get done perhaps... next week | 21:56 |
| morganfainberg | early | 21:57 |
| morganfainberg | (or over the weekend) | 21:57 |
| morganfainberg | and then continued work on the rest of the kvs conversions | 21:57 |
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| morganfainberg | but those can happen post i-2 since they likely wont have any config/api effects. | 21:57 |
| morganfainberg | or for J1. | 21:58 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, kvs conversions not token that is. | 21:58 |
| morganfainberg | token will be done as soon as possible | 21:58 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, OK...snything else holding things up? | 21:58 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yes, but not Keystone related :P | 21:59 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and not things that are discussed in this irc channel related ;) | 21:59 |
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| morganfainberg | but such is balancing opensource vs internal work | 21:59 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, I meant KVS wise...any other reviews that can happen in parallel? I still think the KVS split is the Killer Ice Feature | 22:03 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, the rest in the chain. | 22:15 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/60742/ for example | 22:15 |
| morganfainberg | but not sure how much that will need to change to cover the other changes yet | 22:15 |
| morganfainberg | so. | 22:15 |
| morganfainberg | and i need to figure out how to pass arbitrary configuration options to the different kvs stores. i think the new oslo.config has a json config option i should explore | 22:16 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, does 60742 need to depend on the non-expiring keys change, or is that just an artifact of how you were developing? | 22:17 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, that one doesn't but the memcache one depends on 60742 and the non-expiry keys | 22:18 |
| morganfainberg | i could probably move the kvs impl down one | 22:18 |
| morganfainberg | in the chain | 22:18 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, don't make unnecessary work, but if we can push the changes on in parallel, and it will speed things it, consider doing so. Sounds about right? | 22:19 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, i'll see how hard a change that is. | 22:20 |
| morganfainberg | if it's trivial, i'll invert the order | 22:20 |
| morganfainberg | if it's ugly, i'll leave it | 22:20 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, looks like it might be a single conflict to invert the patchset order | 23:27 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, will let you know in a moment. | 23:27 |
| morganfainberg | or 24 (waiting on tempest) | 23:27 |
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