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| morganfainberg | termie: ping | 00:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/swift: Uses None instead of mutable dicts for default function arguments https://review.openstack.org/27845 | 01:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/devstack: RHEL6 support rpms https://review.openstack.org/27543 | 01:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/devstack: Grab upstream nodejs for RHEL6 https://review.openstack.org/26711 | 01:21 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/devstack: lib/database: Fixed a bug in database_connection_url https://review.openstack.org/27703 | 01:21 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/devstack: Fix nova compute failing to start on openSUSE 12.3 https://review.openstack.org/26833 | 01:22 |
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| termie | morganfainberg: holla | 01:52 |
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| morganfainberg | termie: i'll catch you tomorrow i have a couple questions regarding some user update stuff and scenarios | 01:59 |
| morganfainberg | just noticing some … poor user experience and wondering if it is something we can clean up keystone side…or if I need to punt it over to horizon :) | 01:59 |
| morganfainberg | (and yes, I'll also volunteer for helping to clean it up) | 01:59 |
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| termie | morganfainberg: kk | 02:00 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, just now getting around to your request.... | 02:00 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/horizon: Migrate to PBR for build tooling. https://review.openstack.org/27223 | 02:02 |
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| ayoung | termie, topol is East Coast, (Raliegh) don't know about stevemar | 02:13 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/keystone: HACKING LDAP https://review.openstack.org/24665 | 03:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/quantum: Docstrings formatted according to pep257 https://review.openstack.org/27804 | 05:28 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/quantum: Docstrings formatted according to pep257 https://review.openstack.org/27712 | 05:29 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/quantum: Imported Translations from Transifex https://review.openstack.org/27872 | 06:42 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/quantum: Use sql alchemy to fetch a scalar for the max tunnel id https://review.openstack.org/27875 | 06:43 |
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| hugokuo | what's "vanilla Swift" ???? | 07:39 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/devstack: Correcting comment for HOST_IP_IFACE https://review.openstack.org/27780 | 07:41 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: import and install gettext in vm_vdi_cleaner.py https://review.openstack.org/27860 | 10:09 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: Import oslo periodic tasks support. https://review.openstack.org/26303 | 13:32 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/oslo-incubator: Ensure that qpid connection is closed. https://review.openstack.org/27894 | 13:40 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, give me a shout when you have a moment | 13:52 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: heya, whatup? | 13:58 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, so, I read back up on your exchange with termie yesterday. He was a trifle harsh, but I think he might have a point | 14:05 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: which of his points? | 14:05 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, is there any reason avaiability zones should not be exposed in the same way that regions are? | 14:05 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, I think we actually covered this in the discussion at the summit | 14:05 |
| ayoung | we converged on the term region as it was the more generic | 14:06 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: my original proposal actually had the concept of availability zones in it. Based on feedback from folks in the room, to be as flexible as possible, folks said to just use the term region (and subregion) and don't use the term availability zone. | 14:06 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, but really any grouping of the service catalog should be covered, which was why we made it a heirarchical design. He missed that discussion | 14:06 |
| ayoung | right | 14:06 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: right, exactly. | 14:06 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, so, aside from avaiability zones and regions, are there any other terms that are used? | 14:07 |
| ayoung | chunks? | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: I didn't use any term other than region. | 14:07 |
| ayoung | not you | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: region that has a parent region == subregion. | 14:07 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, I mean in common usage | 14:07 |
| ayoung | right | 14:07 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: HP Cloud uses AZ, region, and geography. | 14:07 |
| ayoung | AZ? | 14:08 |
| ayoung | Arizona? | 14:08 |
| ayoung | Hhe | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: availability zone :) | 14:08 |
| ayoung | ok | 14:08 |
| ayoung | Guang Yee, from HP was working on AZ.... | 14:08 |
| ayoung | Whoopee! | 14:08 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: AT&T has multiple regions, with deployment zones inside a region | 14:08 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, OK, so my one concern with chooseing Regions as the term was just what we saw: people wouldn't realize that it also covered AZ | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: and our regions are not geographically-connotated, for the reason that we wish to divide our entire deployment into "regions" that describe a tier or SLA level | 14:09 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: I'm totally open to using another term. I used Region because it's already in the service catalog. | 14:09 |
| ayoung | I think that actually addresses termie's concern. He said "it wasn't big enough" but I don't know if there is anything else we need to covere with the approach | 14:10 |
| ayoung | So, is there? Besides AZ, Region, and geography, are there other terms we need to cover with one blanket? And, does the current BP/identity doc change cover all that? | 14:11 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: I don't think he was referring to the size of a region. | 14:11 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: he was referring to the *concept* of deployment-specific (deployment == multiple regions/AZs/geographies/sites/whatever) information I think | 14:12 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: and whether Keystone was the appropriate place to store that information | 14:12 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: I personally believe it is the correct place to put that information. | 14:12 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: but the jury is apparently out on that? | 14:12 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, I agree that it needs to be avaiable to Keystone. One thing I've been wondering is if Keystone itself isw trying to do too much in a single server, and should be split up. However, since the service catalog is going to be scoped down to the set of services associated to a project, they need to be linked. I thin, in this case, they need to be together. | 14:13 |
| ayoung | I'd like the potential to split, say, the policy repo out into its own service | 14:14 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: sure, though neither the service catalog nor the policy repo is a particularly odious source of contention. | 14:15 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, right. THe hot path in Keystone is token creation. Hopefully token validation is no longer a hot path due to PKI tokens | 14:15 |
| ayoung | editing user information probably should be done on a different system, too | 14:16 |
| ayoung | no reason to link both of that to a single service | 14:16 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: either way, I don't think think the service catalog should be separated out of Keystone. | 14:16 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, I tend to agree, and certainly not for Havana. That deadline is going to be upon us before we know it | 14:17 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: right, that's why I thought the proposed /regions resource, which does nothing more than provide a client a way to traverse the existing service catalog in a hierarchical way (and also means the entire service catalog for a deployment doesn't need to be pulled down if you have a centralized service catalog databases) | 14:18 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: would be an easy win, since it doesn't add any new concept that isn't already in the denormalized existing service catalog data structure | 14:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: Catch glance image create exceptions https://review.openstack.org/26999 | 14:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: Convert the cache key from unicode to a string. https://review.openstack.org/27886 | 14:21 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, looking through the irc log, I don't see anything specific beyond the fact this patch didn't explicitly indicate AZs were covered. | 14:21 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, but I could see a concern that we need multiple ways to filter the data | 14:22 |
| ayoung | we have some of that baked in to the V3 api approach in general | 14:22 |
| ayoung | For example, if you want to get a list of all availability zones, regardless of where they fall in the heirarchy, I'm not sure you could as it is now specified | 14:23 |
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| ayoung | well, the etherpad has | 14:24 |
| ayoung | GET /availability-zones | 14:24 |
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| ayoung | but not sorting by geographies | 14:24 |
| ayoung | or whatever term is used in a deployment | 14:24 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, OK, thought experiment. What if we did split off the catalog from Keystone? | 14:32 |
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| ayoung | Every host, every service, hell, every virtual machine if you like, available from a single source | 14:32 |
| ayoung | like DNS | 14:32 |
| ayoung | Now, Keystone can consume them, but they are managed via BIND or what not | 14:33 |
| ayoung | Regions, AZ, Geographies, whatever, then become DNS records of some sort | 14:33 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, It would be a step in the right direction, I think, to use an existing technology as opposed to creating our own. | 14:35 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, then, each endpoint would show up as a SRV record. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRV_record | 14:36 |
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| ayoung | actually, that makes a lot of sense....now, the questions is, how would you scope that information to a project.... | 14:38 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: sorry, had to step away to take a call... reading back now. | 14:38 |
| simo | ayoung: use sRV and TXT records | 14:38 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, thanks, I was starting to feel like Smeagol | 14:39 |
| jaypipes | lol :) | 14:39 |
| simo | ayoung: TXT records to name stuff, sRV records to point at specific hosts | 14:39 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: DNS is precisely the analogy that makes sense. | 14:39 |
| ayoung | simo, +1 | 14:40 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, so why not use DNS? | 14:40 |
| simo | jaypipes: DNS has been precisly built to resolve resources on networks :) | 14:40 |
| jaypipes | ayoung, simo: well, the routing/discovery of DNS is great -- no complaint from me. The only thing that would be nice is to be able to have a descriptive field for what the 'region' represents... would be optional of course. | 14:41 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, TXT record, I think | 14:41 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: I'm showing my lack of depth in DNS :) If TXT records would work, then cool. | 14:42 |
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| ayoung | "TXT RRs are used to hold descriptive text. The semantics of the text | 14:42 |
| ayoung | depends on the domain where it is found. | 14:42 |
| ayoung | " from https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1035#page-12 | 14:42 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, take a look at this http://admiyo.fedorapeople.org/ipa/demo/ui/#dns=dnszone&identity=dns&navigation=identity&dnszone-facet=default&dnszone-pkey=test.com | 14:43 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: can a single DNS query to cloud.domain.com return information about subcloud1.cloud.domain.com and subcloud2.cloud.domain.com? | 14:43 |
| ayoung | that is the web UI for FreeIPA's DNS management | 14:43 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, can a DNS query enumerate subdomains? | 14:43 |
| ayoung | Is that what you are asking? | 14:44 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: looks like it can :) | 14:44 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: so problem may indeed be solved... | 14:44 |
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| ekarlso | gonna use IPA instead of Keystone or ? | 14:45 |
| ayoung | ekarlso, heh | 14:45 |
| simo | jaypipes: it is called a zone transfer, and it is usually not allow but normal clients on security grounds | 14:45 |
| simo | jaypipes: however nothing stops you putting references in a TXT record that you can parse | 14:46 |
| ayoung | ekarlso, I don't think it is "instead of" I think IPA is a great, easy to deploy implementation of standard protocol implementations | 14:46 |
| ayoung | ekarlso, so, I would recommend using it for developers that need to support DNS, Kerberos, and LDAP | 14:46 |
| jaypipes | simo: well at that point, you need to put some standard protocol for parsing the TXT record to find information about subzones, no? If that's the case, then we're back to square one. | 14:46 |
| simo | ekarlso: I see IPA could be a solid base on which to build keystone so you do not have to reinvent what has already been done but concentrate on doing the openstack specific stuff instead | 14:47 |
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| simo | jaypipes: given subzones is an openstack specific concept you have to no matter what | 14:47 |
| simo | jaypipes: the point is to reuse what exists so you do only that 5% and do not have to build then 95% around it too | 14:47 |
| jaypipes | simo: I'm all for that. | 14:48 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, I think it would make sense to look at axfr records, understand the coincerns, and then see if there is a way we could expose a limited subset of the information from them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_zone_transfer | 14:48 |
| simo | ayoung: zone transfers are an all or nothing thing | 14:48 |
| simo | you *might* be able to do something with views in bind | 14:48 |
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| simo | but managing views is not trivial | 14:48 |
| simo | I wouldn;t base any design on views availability either | 14:49 |
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| simo | (bind specific, so no powerdns unbind, etcc... support, also not yet supported in bind10) | 14:49 |
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| ayoung | simo, if you do a query for * don't you get all of the subzone information? | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | simo: and then you need to think about configuration and setup... instead of adding a record using the same Keystone API I now use to add a service or endpoint, now I'm going to have to build in DNS automation into my deployment methodology (Chef/Puppet/whatever). And that's a bit of a pain. | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | simo: but if you are referring to simply making a DNS *service catalog driver* in keystone, I think that would work. | 14:50 |
| simo | ayoung: no | 14:50 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, nope...there are better solutions there, too, using standard protocols, | 14:50 |
| simo | ayoung: in bind you can set up * so that any query will resolve to the same address | 14:50 |
| simo | it's a catch all | 14:51 |
| ayoung | ah | 14:51 |
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| simo | jaypipes: I would build a DNS Update client into keystone | 14:51 |
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| simo | jaypipes: probably by simply popen() nsupdate | 14:52 |
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| * jaypipes vaguely remembers hearing something about a DNSaaS.. | 14:52 | |
| simo | jaypipes: and a bit of configuration to see what oiptions to use | 14:52 |
| ekarlso | jaypipes: Moniker | 14:52 |
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| simo | TSIG or GSS-TSIG signatures depending on the environament | 14:52 |
| ekarlso | so yeah, there's already a DNSaaS | 14:52 |
| simo | ekarlso: is moniker using DNS Updates ? | 14:52 |
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| ekarlso | simo: I think it does notifications atm | 14:53 |
| simo | akscram: notifications ? meaning ? | 14:53 |
| ekarlso | simo: notifications from stuff like nova, quantum | 14:53 |
| simo | doesn't tell me anything sorry | 14:53 |
| simo | what is a notification in monikert ? | 14:53 |
| ekarlso | simo: stuff like nova and quantum sends notifications when there's events that occor, like creating a new vm, Moniker takes those and does stuff with them.. | 14:54 |
| ayoung | simo, there is an incubating project...I'll find the link | 14:54 |
| ekarlso | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Moniker_Incubation_Application | 14:54 |
| ayoung | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/DNSaaS | 14:54 |
| ekarlso | and that yes | 14:54 |
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| ekarlso | it has a client also in python | 14:54 |
| ayoung | ekarlso, an admin client? | 14:55 |
| simo | ekarlso: I guess moniker wants to create DNS entries with those notifications ? | 14:55 |
| ayoung | cuz the dns client is called nslookup or dig.... | 14:55 |
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| simo | ekarlso: and if so I was asking if it uses DNS Updates in the backend to create those entries (otherwise it is a bit of FAIL) | 14:56 |
| zul | markmc: can you +1 this one as well https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27913/ | 14:56 |
| ayoung | simo, backend is PowerDNS | 14:56 |
| simo | yeah reading ... a world of fail | 14:57 |
| simo | I'll write an email asking for explanation | 14:57 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, there are no easy answer, only questions that lead to more questions | 14:57 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: thank you, Yoda :) | 14:58 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, but, lets forget the implementation of the DNS server for a moment | 14:58 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, look as good you will not when 42 you reach | 14:58 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, I think the right general answer is DNS. | 14:59 |
| ayoung | AZs, regions, etc are well represented by DNS records in a non-surprising way | 15:00 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: agreed completely. | 15:00 |
| ayoung | enuemration is a bit problematic in that the only standard way to do it is zone transfers, but that is a solvable problem. | 15:00 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, I see enough references to using zone transfers to solve this problem that, while I respect the hell out of simo's opinions, I suspect it is still worth investigating | 15:01 |
| ayoung | but, assuming it does not work | 15:01 |
| jaypipes | ayoung: well, keep in mind Keystone already enumerates all of the regions/zones in the service catalog. It's just not a very friendly or hierarchical way. | 15:01 |
| ayoung | jaypipes, Keystone is a big lump of NIH | 15:02 |
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| jaypipes | ayoung: heh | 15:02 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, if I were designing today, I would start with standard technologies for all of the things that Keystone provides | 15:02 |
| simo | ayoung: axfr is not the way to go imo | 15:02 |
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| simo | it's heavy and normally not allowed to clients | 15:03 |
| ayoung | simo, and I know you well enough to know you are most likely right | 15:03 |
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| ayoung | simo, but...if you control the dns server, and can customize it, it might be OK....that is what I would investigate. | 15:03 |
| simo | ayoung: a big if | 15:03 |
| simo | but even if you control it, you wouldn;t want to allow all clients to dump the whole DB every time thy have the whim to | 15:04 |
| ayoung | simo, well, we are talking a bout people doing openstack deployments, which tend to manage a lot of infrastructure | 15:04 |
| simo | it's expensive and does not scale | 15:04 |
| ayoung | simo, what if... | 15:04 |
| ayoung | you did a heirarchy, and only put a small amount into each level of the heirarchy? | 15:04 |
| simo | ayoung: there are good reasons why axfr is not use except server-to-server, not just security as in 'hiding' stuff | 15:05 |
| simo | ayoung: TXT records or SRV records man | 15:05 |
| simo | SRV records ca return multiple entries | 15:05 |
| simo | so just have one that lists all the names you need | 15:05 |
| ayoung | simo, yeah, that is more likely the right solution | 15:05 |
| simo | _regions.foo.domain.com | 15:05 |
| simo | which returns regiona.foo.domain.com, regionb.foo.domain.com, regionc.foo.domain.com ....etc.etc. | 15:06 |
| simo | you do not need axfr to do that | 15:06 |
| simo | yuou do not *want* axfr for something so simple | 15:06 |
| ayoung | simo, so we would have a standard which is something like _subregions.foo.domain.com to enumerate the subregions | 15:06 |
| simo | probably more like _regions._keystone.domain.com | 15:06 |
| simo | or similar | 15:06 |
| ayoung | and _services.myregion.foo.domain.com to enumerate the Openstack services | 15:07 |
| simo | ayoung: I can help suggesting the correct names to use if someone wants to own this work | 15:07 |
| simo | jaypipes: I am available to help out if you want to drive it | 15:07 |
| simo | ayoung: yes | 15:07 |
| simo | it is very simple to set up | 15:07 |
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| ayoung | ekarlso, are you involved in the Moniker project? | 15:07 |
| simo | and keystone can use the nsupdate tool to talk to the DNS server to fill in t6he records | 15:07 |
| simo | it just need an identity that is authorized to make these modifications | 15:08 |
| simo | so either a shared key for TSIG or a kerberos keytab for GSS-TSIG | 15:08 |
| ayoung | simo, I can own it from the Keystone side | 15:08 |
| simo | ayoung: do we need to deal with moniker at all ? | 15:09 |
| simo | should keystone go directly to DNS or should it talk with this moniker thing ? | 15:09 |
| ayoung | simo, I think it would be an option integration | 15:10 |
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| ayoung | it should talk standard protocols and talk to any DNS server that accepts them | 15:10 |
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| simo | I agree | 15:10 |
| ayoung | Moniker then can just be the OS bundles solution | 15:11 |
| ayoung | bundled | 15:11 |
| ayoung | simo, jaypipes https://etherpad.openstack.org/dns-service-catalog | 15:11 |
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| simo | ayoung: keep DNS name short or it will be a pain to type :) | 15:14 |
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| ayoung | jaypipes, see what you started? | 15:17 |
| ekarlso | ayoung: yes | 15:17 |
| zul | markmc: ping | 15:17 |
| ekarlso | I am :) | 15:17 |
| markmc | zul, yes? | 15:17 |
| zul | markmc: i have a whole bunch of stuff coming down the pipe for oslo-incubator that is using six | 15:18 |
| markmc | zul, great | 15:18 |
| markmc | zul, just add the pip-requires change to one of those | 15:18 |
| zul | ok cool | 15:18 |
| markmc | chers | 15:18 |
| ekarlso | Ryan_Lane: ping | 15:18 |
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| ayoung | ekarlso, take a look at what we are brainstorming https://etherpad.openstack.org/dns-service-catalog and see if it corresponds with your understanding | 15:21 |
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| lauria | mordred: Hi Monty, I've just built a Flake8 extension for a tempest check. Would you review it and let me know what else is needed for the extension to be integrated into the tempest tree? Here's the link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27920/ Thanks | 15:31 |
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| ekarlso | kiall: ping ping | 15:34 |
| clarkb | what timezone does dims hide in? | 15:35 |
| dansmith | clarkb: EDT | 15:35 |
| clarkb | dansmith: ty | 15:35 |
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| ekarlso | ayoung-afk: I think that Moniker can fit into that picture somehow | 15:38 |
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| simo | ekarlso: if moniker scales down to just be a dns update gateway it could simply stay in nova or keystone and not be a separate project to be honest | 15:47 |
| simo | unless there are other things it is supposed to do I haven't understood | 15:47 |
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| ekarlso | simo: it's an api like route53 / clouddns from rax | 15:48 |
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| simo | ekarlso: understood | 15:48 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: Fix baremetal get_available_nodes https://review.openstack.org/27855 | 16:05 |
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| mordred | lauria: looking | 16:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/oslo-incubator: Use range rather than xrange https://review.openstack.org/27922 | 16:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/oslo-incubator: Use optparse for install_venv_common https://review.openstack.org/27848 | 16:21 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: Update to using oslo periodic tasks implementation. https://review.openstack.org/27683 | 16:23 |
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| ayoung | simo, so I think we could make dns backend for the catalog in keystone | 16:27 |
| ayoung | No need for a new API or abstraction | 16:28 |
| dolphm | simo: ayoung: doooo iiiit | 16:28 |
| simo | ayoung: makes sense to me | 16:29 |
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| dolphm | mordred: ^ you might be interested | 16:36 |
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| mordred | oh. that's interesting | 16:36 |
| ayoung | dolphm, mordred https://etherpad.openstack.org/dns-service-catalog | 16:37 |
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| mordred | yes. I agree with that approach | 16:38 |
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| ayoung | mordred, care to help me flesh it out? | 16:38 |
| ayoung | help us, I should say, I can't take credit for this | 16:38 |
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| mordred | although I do think that having keystone (also) be able to use moniker if it's there would be neat | 16:38 |
| mordred | although, chicken and egg I guess | 16:39 |
| mordred | maybe | 16:39 |
| ayoung | nope | 16:39 |
| ayoung | monker is a DNS implementaion | 16:39 |
| ayoung | where possible we should use DNS update and Moniker will reflect | 16:39 |
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| mordred | moniker is an api for manipulating dns | 16:39 |
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| ayoung | mordred, understood, but we already have one of those... | 16:39 |
| ayoung | DNS for reading the data, dnsupdate for updating | 16:40 |
| mordred | we do? | 16:40 |
| ayoung | mordred, look at what simo wrote in green on that page: | 16:40 |
| mordred | yes. I was reading that | 16:40 |
| ayoung | nsupdate calls the standard DNS update protocols: | 16:40 |
| mordred | it concerns me, because it means in an install with both keystone and moniker one might have two different things wanting to manipulate the dns | 16:41 |
| mordred | but I might be overthinking it | 16:41 |
| ayoung | mordred, think of DNS as the canonical sergvice for this, with Keystone being one of the ways it gets updated | 16:42 |
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| ayoung | moniker is a possible alternative way to modify DNS, but I would think that it would be more for the VMs to use, and at the Service infrastructure level we would use the standard protocols | 16:43 |
| mordred | well... | 16:43 |
| mordred | remeber, i'm mr. opensatkc-on-openstack over here | 16:43 |
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| ayoung | DNS UPDATE is kindof a standard | 16:43 |
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| ayoung | probably older than some of the OS devs | 16:44 |
| mordred | yes. I agree with that | 16:44 |
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| mordred | however, it's not really suitable for tenants to use | 16:44 |
| mordred | but if my openstack installation is a tenant on a cloud itself | 16:44 |
| mordred | my keystone there is going to want to be able to manipulate its dns | 16:44 |
| mordred | and it's going to need to be able to use moniker to do that | 16:44 |
| mordred | so - plugins perhaps? with the default being nsupdate? | 16:45 |
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| ayoung | mordred, I would think that we would do DNS uPDATE first, and provide the ability to do the updates via Moniker once it is a fully realized project, as an alternative backend that shares the majority of its code with the dnsupdate backend | 16:46 |
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| ayoung | mordred, yep | 16:46 |
| mordred | great! I'm totally all in for nsupdate as long as there is a future-looking ability for me to do the other thing too | 16:46 |
| ayoung | start off with a dnsupdate backend, refactor into a straight dns part and an update part, create a new subclass for moniker | 16:46 |
| * mordred goes back to reading the more pertinent pieces | 16:46 | |
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| ekarlso | Ryan_Lane: yo, ping me when here | 16:55 |
| Ryan_Lane | ekarlso: what's up? | 16:55 |
| ekarlso | Ryan_Lane: care for a query ? | 16:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | what do you mean? | 16:56 |
| ekarlso | need some help on mediawiki :) | 16:56 |
| Ryan_Lane | sure. what's up? | 16:56 |
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| jeblair | ayoung: i think http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2782 says the format should be _keystone._tcp.os.example.com | 17:03 |
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| jeblair | ayoung: (i am very excited about this, btw) | 17:03 |
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| ayoung | jeblair, sounds right | 17:04 |
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| jeblair | ayoung: updated etherpad to add '_tcp' to the example, and started a references section at the bottom to keep the rfc link handy | 17:05 |
| ayoung | jeblair, nice | 17:05 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: Sync jsonutils from oslo https://review.openstack.org/27905 | 17:09 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: Sync small and safe changes from oslo https://review.openstack.org/27906 | 17:10 |
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| harlowja | sandywalsh yt | 17:38 |
| sandywalsh | hey! | 17:38 |
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| harlowja | sandywalsh yo yo, i was having a idea and wondered if its ok with u | 17:38 |
| harlowja | do u mind if i take over https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Orchestration_team_meeting | 17:39 |
| harlowja | free timeslot :-P | 17:39 |
| harlowja | i think there is enough interest brewing to get something done (i hope) | 17:39 |
| sandywalsh | harlowja, not at all ... it's unused currently | 17:39 |
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| harlowja | sandywalsh thanks, enough people starting to get interested in fixing nova that its gonna get hard without some type of coordination meeting | 17:40 |
| dolphm | jeblair: s/_keystone/_identity/ | 17:40 |
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| harlowja | *to start fixing nova, then fix everything else, haha | 17:40 |
| sandywalsh | harlowja, yep, good to see things happening. I could never get the time to dedicate to it sadly. | 17:40 |
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| harlowja | sandywalsh i know, its a tiring activity also, the fighting is draining | 17:40 |
| harlowja | so we'll see how long i can keep it up, ha | 17:41 |
| sandywalsh | harlowja, read yun's document, he did some good work previously | 17:41 |
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| sandywalsh | harlowja, that's what killed me on it ... too many cooks in the kitchen | 17:42 |
| harlowja | sandywalsh totally | 17:42 |
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| harlowja | sandywalsh ya, i totally know the feeling | 17:42 |
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| harlowja | but with more people getting active, i can at least attempt to swap cooks out if one gets frustrated, lol | 17:42 |
| harlowja | distribute the paiin | 17:42 |
| harlowja | lol | 17:42 |
| sandywalsh | :) | 17:43 |
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| jeblair | dolphm, good point, but since we're outside the context of openstack here, maybe we should qualify that. "openstack-id" is actually an ietf registered service, maybe it should be _openstack-id._tcp.... | 17:43 |
| jeblair | ayoung: ^ | 17:43 |
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| harlowja | sandywalsh but i have a pretty high tolerance, what doesn't kill me makes me stronger, so we'll see how it goes :-p | 17:44 |
| dolphm | mordred: ayoung: on the dns catalog chicken and egg issue, i think it'd be practical for keystone to provide a read-only service catalog from dns, and not be expected to update dns | 17:44 |
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| dolphm | jeblair: awesome, that's even better... i was thinking _openstack should be thrown in there as well | 17:44 |
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| ayoung | http://www.fpaste.org/9840/67430348/ | 17:45 |
| simo | ayoung: if you have DNS records you don;t even need that | 17:46 |
| simo | (that snipped prevents you from contacting multiple servers, it welds you to taht specific one) | 17:46 |
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| ayoung | http://www.fpaste.org/9841/36743050/ | 17:48 |
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| gyee | dolphm, ayoung, do I have the green light to work on this? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/26665/ | 17:49 |
| gyee | should be a simple change if you guys are OK with the doc | 17:49 |
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| dolphm | gyee: i'd like to hear from joe savak, can you poke him on it? he's easily the biggest stakeholder on default projectness | 17:51 |
| gyee | dolphm, sure will do | 17:51 |
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| dolphm | gyee: refresh me- was this blocking/breaking some use case? | 17:52 |
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| dolphm | gyee: if so, throw it in the commit message | 17:52 |
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| gyee | dolphm, if default project is disabled or deleted, user can't login without involving admin | 17:52 |
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| jeblair | simo: 'openstack-id' is already registered (in the etherpad you indicated that it should be registered) | 17:53 |
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| jeblair | simo: also, i think the 'finding keystone' section mimics kerberos, and it looks fine to me; it's the region enumeration that i'm not sure about | 17:56 |
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| morganfainberg | termie: ping | 18:23 |
| ayoung | jeblair, so I added a section where we should specify how each of the operations is performed. | 18:24 |
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| simo | jeblair: good to know, feel free to correct the pad | 18:29 |
| simo | ah and you did, excellent | 18:30 |
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| simo | russellb: I am kinda stuck on how to find out what is the service "source" topic (service.host) when serialize_msg() is called | 18:30 |
| simo | do you have a moment to handhold me there? :-) | 18:30 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: Reset migrating task state for MigrationError exceptions https://review.openstack.org/27761 | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, ekarlso simo, jeblair https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/dns-catalog | 18:31 |
| ayoung | So we can find it again | 18:31 |
| simo | ack, thanks | 18:32 |
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| termie | morganfainberg: holla | 18:52 |
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| russellb | simo: seems like something that needs to be passed in to rpc during initialization | 18:53 |
| simo | russellb: either at initialization or it is done in CONF | 18:53 |
| russellb | simo: so, a new API that the consumer of rpc has to call to set it | 18:53 |
| russellb | yeah, but i don't expect it to ever be a config option | 18:53 |
| simo | cause CONF.host even when present seem to contain just the hostname | 18:54 |
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| simo | but I need service.hostname here | 18:54 |
| russellb | simo: yeah, so I'd expect the service to call something like ... rpc.set_source('%s.%s' % ('compute', CONF.host)) ... or something | 18:54 |
| simo | russellb: *what* knows what is our own service name ? | 18:54 |
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| russellb | simo: one sec | 18:55 |
| simo | also if the above call is made | 18:55 |
| simo | where does set_source() store it ? | 18:55 |
| russellb | nova/service.py | 18:55 |
| russellb | some global variable i guess | 18:55 |
| russellb | we'll have an easier way to do this once this whole API gets redesigned ... markmc is on that now | 18:56 |
| russellb | then it'd be a constructor argument to the client class or something | 18:56 |
| russellb | something sane | 18:56 |
| russellb | but for now ... | 18:56 |
| russellb | nova/service.py ... Service.__init__() | 18:57 |
| russellb | topic and host are what you want | 18:57 |
| russellb | where topic == 'compute' and host =='hostname' | 18:57 |
| russellb | so right there you could call rpc.set_source('%s.%s' % (topic, host)) | 18:58 |
| simo | russellb: ok so the idea would be to add a call to rpc.set_source() there and make it global ? | 18:58 |
| russellb | actually .... rpc.set_source(rpc.queue_get_for(topic, host)) | 18:58 |
| russellb | something like that | 18:58 |
| simo | wouldn't it cause issues where nova impersonate multiple services ? | 18:58 |
| russellb | only one of these in a given service | 18:58 |
| russellb | shouldn't ever be a case where a single process has multiple source identities | 18:59 |
| russellb | i think | 18:59 |
| russellb | in nova anyway :) | 18:59 |
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| simo | can the process create multiple Service objects ? | 18:59 |
| russellb | no | 18:59 |
| termie | ayoung, jaypipes, simo: damn you kids on different timezones who also wake up early in the morning | 18:59 |
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| simo | termie: sucks to be in PST when EST people wake up at 6AM :-) | 19:00 |
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| termie | ayoung, jaypipes, simo: anyway, towards what you guys were discussing, lean on a google friend to explain BNS to you, they did something a little different for this because of problems in DNS | 19:00 |
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| simo | termie: what problems ? | 19:01 |
| termie | ayoung, jaypipes, simo: may make sense to follow their lead a bit while designing this | 19:01 |
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| simo | termie: links ? | 19:01 |
| termie | simo: i don't remember off-hand, and it isn't public info | 19:01 |
| termie | simo: but most google employees won't mind telling you | 19:01 |
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| simo | russellb: does nova/service.py:Service instantiate also common/rpc/service.py:Service by chance ? | 19:06 |
| simo | uhmm actually it rpc.common.Service looks like a superclass of nova Service | 19:07 |
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| simo | russellb: nova seem to create many services named different topics: nova-cells, nova-network, nova-cert, nova-scheduler | 19:10 |
| russellb | simo: service infrastructure in oslo hasn't been adopted by nova yet | 19:10 |
| russellb | yep, bunch of them | 19:10 |
| ayoung | termie, is BNS the term or is that a typo? | 19:10 |
| simo | russellb: each of these needs an identity I think, because they are destinations for some client I guess | 19:10 |
| termie | ayoung: it is the term | 19:10 |
| russellb | yes | 19:10 |
| russellb | all different processes though | 19:10 |
| simo | russellb: then I canno have a global as I need to get the right topic.host in scheduler_msg to set the source | 19:11 |
| simo | russellb: ah | 19:11 |
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| simo | I see | 19:12 |
| simo | that simplify things | 19:12 |
| simo | ok I'll give a shot at this | 19:12 |
| russellb | cool | 19:12 |
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| simo | russellb: ok to add set_source in common.py ? | 19:12 |
| termie | ayoung: i didn't turn anything up on searches | 19:12 |
| simo | or should it be in __init__.py ? | 19:12 |
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| termie | ayoung: but from past employment history i know it to exist, and to offer some nice features | 19:13 |
| russellb | simo: __init__.py i guess | 19:13 |
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| ayoung | termie, trying to figure out who I know at Google. MOst of my friends that worked there left years ago. | 19:14 |
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| termie | ayoung: i'll try to dig up the info, too, just nice to have multiple sources | 19:14 |
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| ayoung | termie, good to know. Figured we weren't the first to think of this. Do you remember the kinds of things they were working around? DNS security issues? | 19:16 |
| topol | dolphm, at the keystone sessions in portland heckj mentioned that for grizzly that all the openstack projects now had the option of being able to enable TLS for the communications between the projects. Do you know if this capability is documented somewhere/ I have some folks who want to try this capability out. | 19:17 |
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| termie | ayoung: some of the enumeration things, i'd suspect, a better hierarchichal scheme, my memory on it is really rather foggy | 19:18 |
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| termie | ayoung: has been years and i never had much direct interaction with it | 19:19 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/quantum: Fix 'null' response on router-interface-remove operation https://review.openstack.org/27868 | 19:19 |
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| simo | russellb: reading the comment in queue_get_for() it loks like the topic is foo but nova would use a name of nova-foo ? | 19:19 |
| e_steve | I have a question about glanceclient 0.9.0, is there a way to use the 'v2' glanceclient but have access to the 'v1' methods? Or should I just instantiate two separate glanceclients if I want full functionality for v1 AND v2? | 19:20 |
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| russellb | the nova-compute service uses the topic 'compute' (by default) | 19:20 |
| simo | russellb: is the topic passed to Service() then 'compute' or 'nova-compute' ? | 19:20 |
| russellb | and talking to it would be compute.<host> | 19:20 |
| russellb | 'compute' | 19:20 |
| simo | ok all fine then | 19:20 |
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| russellb | simo: you can also see it in Service.start() ... node_topic | 19:21 |
| russellb | that's where it defines itself, and sets up the connection for consuming messages sent there | 19:21 |
| russellb | might just want to move that line up into __init__ | 19:21 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/quantum: Fix port_id filter not honored https://review.openstack.org/27550 | 19:22 |
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| simo | russellb: it's not clear to me how create() is used in Service | 19:23 |
| simo | but I'll figure it out | 19:23 |
| russellb | create() is what usually gets called i think ... | 19:24 |
| russellb | see bin/nova-compute | 19:24 |
| ayoung | termie, just to be clean, this is a different concept than the Google public DNS, right? https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/ | 19:24 |
| termie | ayoung: yes | 19:24 |
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| simo | russellb: shouldn't node_topic use queue_get_for() ? | 19:24 |
| simo | err add 'creating' ther | 19:24 |
| russellb | simo: yeah. | 19:24 |
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| morganfainberg | termie: so i was noticing a behavior in token invalidation that seems a bit aggressive. (this might not be your area to speak to it) but it seems that anytime we make any changes to a user in keystone all tokens are invalidated. This seems too aggressive if some minor changes are made. | 19:25 |
| simo | russellb: I can put all in start() I do not need the global name until the service is started anyway | 19:26 |
| morganfainberg | termie: e.g. adding a user to a project, seems silly to invalidate all tokens. | 19:26 |
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| termie | morganfainberg: i would agree | 19:26 |
| morganfainberg | similarly with changing perhaps email (password, removal of person from a project, yes) | 19:26 |
| russellb | simo: fair enough | 19:26 |
| russellb | simo: so here's a fun wrinkle for you ... bin/nova-dhcpbridge | 19:27 |
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| simo | russellb: why queue_get_for has a context paramter that is not used ? | 19:27 |
| russellb | simo: that's not a service. just a script that runs to send a message to the network service. it gets executed by dnsmasq | 19:27 |
| russellb | simo: i don't remember :) | 19:28 |
| russellb | because we pass context everywhere in the world | 19:28 |
| morganfainberg | termie: ok, just wanted to bounce it off you and make sure i wasn't missing some other side-effect (before I filed bug and worked on some minor changes to address the aggressiveness) | 19:28 |
| simo | russellb: so nova-dhcpbridge does not create a service.Service ? | 19:28 |
| russellb | right ... | 19:28 |
| russellb | it doesn't really have an identity | 19:28 |
| simo | russellb: in the same file def create_connection(new=False) has no context :) | 19:28 |
| russellb | heh | 19:28 |
| russellb | another wrinkle, but less of a problem ... nova-api | 19:29 |
| simo | russellb: well isn't dhcpbridge.host an identity ? | 19:29 |
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| russellb | i guess so | 19:29 |
| russellb | nova-api doesn't run this service code either | 19:29 |
| simo | distributing keys will be so much fun ... | 19:29 |
| russellb | yeah ... dhcpbridge can't cache anything | 19:30 |
| simo | russellb: phased approach, if you don;t have an identity you do not sign message | 19:30 |
| russellb | so, nova-api creates a nova.service.WSGIService | 19:30 |
| russellb | fair enough | 19:30 |
| simo | and we'll care for those in time | 19:30 |
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| russellb | don't worry about dhcpbridge at all actually | 19:30 |
| russellb | it's nova-network specific, which is going to be deprecated in the same timeframe as when people will start using this stuff | 19:31 |
| russellb | we *do* care about nova-api, which takes a slightly different code path (WSGIService) | 19:31 |
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| russellb | simo: the 'name' argument to the WSGIService constructor is probably a reasonable identity | 19:32 |
| russellb | also gives us an identity per API, which is handy | 19:32 |
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| russellb | (there are a few APIs ... the openstack compute API which is the main one, the EC2 API, and the instance metadata API) | 19:33 |
| russellb | we may want different policy for each | 19:33 |
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| simo | russellb: uh different policies for the same actions based on the api used ? hairy ... | 19:35 |
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| russellb | simo: well that's a ways down the road | 19:35 |
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| russellb | simo: in fact, we host multiple APIs in the same process right now, so that's a broken idea if the source identity is a global | 19:36 |
| russellb | so ignore that | 19:36 |
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| simo | russellb: the source identity doesn't need to be a global | 19:37 |
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| simo | but then it means pasing it around | 19:37 |
| simo | I prefer it not to be a global in the long term | 19:37 |
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| e_steve | Keystone//Identity v3 API question.. what is the new equivilant for keystone.tenants.find(name='myuser') ?? | 19:39 |
| russellb | simo: yeah, agreed | 19:39 |
| e_steve | keystone.projects only has get and expects a tenant object, can we search for tenants by name, or was that removed? | 19:39 |
| russellb | simo: we need an RpcClient object or something .... | 19:40 |
| russellb | simo: which is planned for here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/Messaging | 19:40 |
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| pabelanger | Does packstack develop belong here, or another channel? | 19:41 |
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| simo | russellb: yeah once we have the new stuff it will be easier | 19:44 |
| ayoung | gyee, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/token-scoped-endpoint was originally posted based on a discussion with you. Do you have a doc we can point to as the spec? | 19:46 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: hi | 19:47 |
| markmcclain | hi | 19:48 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: in your comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantum/+bug/1174657 | 19:48 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1174657 in quantum "metadata IP 169.254.169.254 routing breaks RFC3927 and does not work on Windows starting from" [Medium,Confirmed] | 19:48 |
| e_steve | Hey is there a reason that CrudManager is not inheriting from ManagerWithFind? Or is there a new way to get 'find' functionality from the v3 managers? | 19:48 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: you say: The metadata service already supports passing the static metadata route via DHCP. Have you enabled this support? | 19:48 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: am I missing some Quantum configuration option? :-) | 19:49 |
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| ayoung | termie, so I read up on the discussion you had with jaypipes yesterday, which is what lead to the brainstorming about DNS. During the Summit it became clear that Avaiability Zones/Regions/geography are all really different ways of saying "how do we scope the set of endpoints we expose." Assuming that Jay's proposal will cover all of these concepts, is there anything really missing in his blueprint for the service catalog? | 19:52 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: Are you referring to "enable_metadata_network" by any chance? | 19:55 |
| markmcclain | alexpilotti: enable_isolated_metadata | 19:55 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: we have to support scenarios in which this is not enabled anyway | 19:56 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: For now we are adding the route explicity in cloudbase-init: https://github.com/cloudbase/cloudbase-init/blob/master/cloudbaseinit/metadata/services/httpservice.py#L60 | 19:57 |
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| markmcclain | that will work too | 19:58 |
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| e_steve | So I noticed if i change this line: | 19:58 |
| e_steve | https://github.com/openstack/python-keystoneclient/blob/master/keystoneclient/base.py#L158 | 19:58 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: and with the same configuration Linux clients work w/o issues, but AFAIK this is related to the fact that Linux routes 169.254.x.x | 19:58 |
| e_steve | from Manager to ManagerWithFind I get all of the original functionality + find functionality, is there a reason it was left out of the client?? | 19:58 |
| markmcclain | alexpilotti: yeah we were abusing that | 19:58 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: :-) | 19:59 |
| markmcclain | we should be able to tweak the dhcp agent to push the static route | 19:59 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: that'd be cool. Please make sure to use both options 121 and 249 | 19:59 |
| markmcclain | right now it is optional, but could tweak setting to always do it | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | right win only uses 249 right? | 20:00 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: Windows >= 2008 uses 121, Windows 2003 uses 249 | 20:00 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: by setting both we can support both cases | 20:01 |
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| markmcclain | ah.. then the changes needed for >=08 will be minimal | 20:02 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: talking about Windows support, can I ask you to review this patch? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27889/ | 20:02 |
| markmcclain | yeah… I'll take look in a few | 20:02 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: the lack of POST support for metadata is blocking the adoption of Quantum for Windows | 20:02 |
| markmcclain | right | 20:02 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: do you think we can backport the fix to Grizzly as well? | 20:03 |
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| markmcclain | not sure.. that will meet the criteria for stable backport | 20:03 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: well, it's a bug fix, not a feature, and it's VERY critical :-) | 20:04 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: as otherwise anybody using Windows will need to wait for Havana or apply the patch manually (ouch) | 20:06 |
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| gyee | ayoung, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/service-isolation-and-roles-delegation | 20:06 |
| simo | russellb: where does oslo.config live? | 20:07 |
| russellb | oslo-config.git | 20:07 |
| ayoung | gyee, OK, I'll obsolete mine and refer to yours | 20:08 |
| markmcclain | alexpilotti: it straddles the line of bug vs feature.. I think that it qualifies as a bug but I'm only one vote :) | 20:08 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: ok, time to distribute beer bribes then :-) | 20:10 |
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| ayoung | gyee, so, the primary change required is that auth_token middleware needs to look in the service catalog refed in the token contains the host as an endpoint. If not...match the service? | 20:11 |
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| gyee | ayoung, I think with that proposal, services/endpoints themselves have their own credentials, public/private keypair | 20:12 |
| gyee | if token is scoped to the endpoints, only those endpoints can decrypt the token | 20:13 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/quantum: Update RPC code from OSLO https://review.openstack.org/27909 | 20:13 |
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| ayoung | gyee, ah. | 20:22 |
| ayoung | gyee, I don't think that is necessary. | 20:22 |
| ayoung | and... | 20:22 |
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| ayoung | it means that they can reencrypt the token | 20:23 |
| ayoung | gyee, I was thinking more along these lines: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/x509-tied-to-token | 20:24 |
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| ayoung | Only Keystone should be signing tokens, but then further linking them to something like a client cert or kerberos ticket is more secure and removes the bearerness aspect | 20:24 |
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| ayoung | and the other part of that is better done using the delegation mechanisms... | 20:25 |
| gyee | ayoung, the encrypted token is also signed by keystone, so they can't just reencrypt | 20:25 |
| ayoung | gyee, hmmmm, | 20:26 |
| ayoung | gyee, even still, I think it is the wrong approach | 20:26 |
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| ayoung | gyee, we need a step-by-step, and that blueprint is all-or-nothing | 20:27 |
| gyee | ayoung, regardless, we are moving toward public key based tokens right? | 20:27 |
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| ayoung | gyee, moving toward? We arready have | 20:28 |
| gyee | whah? | 20:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, but I was thinking more in terms of working with existing mechanisms.... | 20:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, PKI tokens | 20:28 |
| gyee | I mean tied to the client | 20:28 |
| ayoung | I was thinking more in terms of binding the token to the channel, but I guess the end result is the same degree of security | 20:29 |
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| ayoung | double encrypting... | 20:29 |
| gyee | like double tapping | 20:30 |
| ayoung | gyee, something is wrong with that approach....maybe not fatally, let me think it over | 20:30 |
| ayoung | no, nothing like double tapping | 20:30 |
| gyee | I was just kidding | 20:30 |
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| ayoung | gyee, OK, need to go get kids...let me think about it | 20:31 |
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| termie | ayoung-afk: was at lunch, which blueprint is it? | 20:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/glance: Convert scripts to entry points https://review.openstack.org/26018 | 20:41 |
| termie | ayoung-afk: found it | 20:42 |
| termie | ayoung-afk, jaypipes: i don't support this trend of submitting stream-of-conciousness etherpads as "blueprints" | 20:43 |
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| dolphm | termie: edit etherpad in counter-stream-of-conciousness | 20:44 |
| termie | dolphm: it's not my fucking spec | 20:44 |
| termie | dolphm: why is this "accepted for havana" when it is obviously not finished | 20:44 |
| dolphm | termie: link? | 20:44 |
| termie | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/first-class-regions | 20:44 |
| dolphm | termie: because we had a summit session on it and decided on the use cases / direction | 20:45 |
| termie | dolphm: it isn't a spec | 20:45 |
| termie | dolphm: if we're going to use blueprints at least enforce that it has been written out, not vaguely agreed upon in a meeting | 20:46 |
| dolphm | termie: the spec is here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27563/ | 20:46 |
| dolphm | termie: i'd rather use gerrit to review spec than bp's/etherpad where possible | 20:46 |
| termie | dolphm: i think that's probably going to be a bad idea | 20:48 |
| termie | dolphm: though i like the idea of making sure docs are written | 20:49 |
| dolphm | termie: yep... version control, voting, commenting, conflict resolution- have a better approach? lol | 20:49 |
| termie | dolphm: something meant for reading prose? | 20:50 |
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| dolphm | termie: it's markdown | 20:50 |
| termie | dolphm: it's a diff | 20:50 |
| dolphm | termie: go render it | 20:50 |
| termie | dolphm: -rolls eyes- | 20:51 |
| termie | dolphm: anyway, linked to it from the bp | 20:51 |
| dolphm | termie: ah, thanks | 20:52 |
| dolphm | sucks that jenkins doesn't link identity-api reviews to launchpad | 20:52 |
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| gyee | dolphm, should 3.1 be in a separate markdown? | 20:52 |
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| termie | dolphm: all that aside, an actual spec has use cases and workflows | 20:53 |
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| termie | dolphm: this design is a band-aid that has the side-effect of adding an entirely new concept, what we need is real solution discoverability (and probably addressing) that includes a well-thought out plan for how it is going to scale to the load that will be placed on it as a central point in the system | 20:56 |
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| termie | stevemar: what's this about not being able to work on github? | 20:59 |
| dolphm | gyee: i'd rather not maintain two docs... if they need to split at some point, we can deal with it then | 21:00 |
| stevemar | termie: apparently we should just put stuff in gerrit and mark it WIP | 21:00 |
| stevemar | termie: legal mumbo jumbo | 21:00 |
| dolphm | termie: nothing in the spec needs to impact core api either, if you want to allow it entirely as an extension | 21:00 |
| termie | stevemar: your code or my code? | 21:00 |
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| topol | termie, its a lawyer thing. to collaborate, code should be submitted as a work in progress and steve can share doing that | 21:01 |
| stevemar | termie: my code | 21:01 |
| termie | stevemar: you can put your code wherever you want | 21:01 |
| termie | stevemar: what does that have to do with my code? | 21:01 |
| dolphm | what happened to open source | 21:01 |
| topol | and termies code should be submitted as a work in progress. | 21:01 |
| stevemar | termie: won't it build on top of it? | 21:01 |
| topol | dolphm, its a process thing, sdague explained it to me | 21:02 |
| termie | put the words "WORK IN PROGRESS" in your branch name | 21:02 |
| termie | there is no possible way that legal can know how open source well enough to actually levela lawsuit on this | 21:02 |
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| dolphm | is there a lawyer somewhere that understands the difference between github branches and gerrit reviews? | 21:03 |
| topol | sdague read me the riot act on this... and he's smart enough :-) | 21:03 |
| termie | there are copyright notices on the otp of the code | 21:03 |
| termie | you all signed CLAs | 21:03 |
| termie | this code is not yours | 21:03 |
| topol | agreed | 21:03 |
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| termie | where is sdague | 21:03 |
| sdague | I'm here | 21:03 |
| termie | sdague: wtf | 21:04 |
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| termie | sdague: share with me this blasphemy | 21:04 |
| dolphm | sdague: disconfuse us on why github is illegal | 21:04 |
| termie | sdague: or, preferably, disconfuse your company as to why it is not | 21:04 |
| topol | sdague, you told me once before that the proper way for us to collaboarate with external folks was submitting things up as work in progress | 21:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/glance: Redirects requests from /v# to /v#/ https://review.openstack.org/26812 | 21:04 |
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| termie | who is the ceo of ibm nowadays? | 21:05 |
| sdague | dolphm: it's not illegal, but it's different permissions to go ask our legal team for. right now we're good with on things in gerrit | 21:05 |
| e_steve | Hello all.. The crudManager here: https://github.com/openstack/python-keystoneclient/blob/master/keystoneclient/base.py#L158 extends Manager, rather than ManagerWithFind.. as a result the find() and findall() methods are missing from all v3 managers. When I had CrudManager inherit from BaseManagerWithFinhd it didn't break anything and I found no problems using the find() and findall() methods, so presumably it was an intentional change, but i found it | 21:05 |
| dolphm | topol: that's certainly a valid approach, but how does that make github invalid? | 21:05 |
| termie | sdague: ask forgiveness | 21:05 |
| topol | exactly, dont taunt the happy fun ball | 21:05 |
| topol | temrie said that not me | 21:05 |
| sdague | termie: you've never dealt with our lawyers, have you... :) | 21:05 |
| termie | sdague: i've dealt with plenty | 21:06 |
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| termie | sdague: they haven't won yet | 21:06 |
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| termie | sdague: they are clearly out of their element if they think there is a difference where code is downloadable from when it is under the same contributor and copyright licenses | 21:06 |
| topol | so sdage will ask, whats wrong with sharing via submitting work in progress patches. He schooled "boss man" with that :-) | 21:06 |
| topol | topol, once again bows down to sdague... | 21:07 |
| termie | it hinders collaboration | 21:07 |
| sdague | termie: nothing enforces that only CLA stuff lands in github though, I think that's the current crux of it | 21:07 |
| sdague | you actually can't even submit to gerrit unless you're on the CLA | 21:07 |
| termie | sdague: all code being written is part of the existing project | 21:07 |
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| topol | topol so glad a seasoned vet like sdague has to face the angry mob.. | 21:08 |
| sdague | this is the box we're in right now. topol can do a new ask to open it up | 21:08 |
| termie | aww shit back at you topol | 21:09 |
| termie | also | 21:09 |
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| termie | do they have the term "open source" at your company? | 21:09 |
| topol | um yeah, we'll get a formal blessing by when??? | 21:09 |
| termie | sdague: just give us a warning when legal decides to start doing code searches on the web for code written by your employees | 21:10 |
| sdague | hey, just the messanger | 21:10 |
| topol | so I have watched keystone folks in action at crunch time use this approach for collaboration and it worked just fine. what am I missing? | 21:10 |
| termie | sdague: not trying to shoot you | 21:10 |
| termie | sdague: just whoever your represent | 21:10 |
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| sdague | heh | 21:10 |
| topol | he shooting both of us.. | 21:10 |
| sdague | honestly, it wasn't really an issue before. If this is something we need, we'll go do the ask | 21:11 |
| dolphm | termie: besides the fact that you have the choice not to, why isn't it up for review, anyway? | 21:11 |
| dolphm | (in gerrit) | 21:11 |
| termie | dolphm: i have lots of commits and don't want them squashed yet | 21:11 |
| sdague | termie: you realize gerrit does patch series, right? :) | 21:12 |
| * sdague ducks | 21:12 | |
| termie | dolphm: git has plenty of powerful tools for dealing with my history and letting me manage things | 21:12 |
| termie | dolphm: gerrit only has a subset of that | 21:12 |
| dolphm | gerrit uses git too ;) | 21:12 |
| termie | somewhat | 21:12 |
| * stevemar regrets opening this can of worms | 21:12 | |
| dolphm | termie: you can put a whole series of patches up for review at once | 21:13 |
| termie | dolphm: they aren't individual patches | 21:13 |
| sdague | anyway, I've got to run off to a lug meeting, if this is actually really slowing things down, I'll go beat some heads. It just didn't show up as an issue before. | 21:14 |
| termie | dolphm: they are a series of commits | 21:14 |
| termie | dolphm: they need to be cleaned and sorted | 21:14 |
| dolphm | fair enough | 21:14 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/tempest: Finish up flake8 conversion. https://review.openstack.org/27663 | 21:14 |
| topol | sdague, you wont get an answer quickly | 21:14 |
| ayoung-afk | topol, the short of it is that termie's approach is what is the accepted approach in the community, and IBM is making it difficult for you to play. I | 21:14 |
| clarkb | thats sort of the idea behind WIP though. That you can through commits into gerrit before tehy are ready for merging | 21:14 |
| topol | what do we do in the meantime | 21:14 |
| termie | dolphm: do you want to just commit whatever you have open right now and submit it for review? | 21:14 |
| ayoung-afk | It is not for him to have to change his approach | 21:14 |
| clarkb | the only realy loss is the ability to fetch a branch instead of a ref | 21:14 |
| clarkb | and I can't type | 21:15 |
| ayoung-afk | and I can totally understand wanting to work with the series of patches until you havea problem well solved, and then do the squash and clean up thing | 21:15 |
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| ayoung-afk | You often decide...hey, I need to go back to a saved game...ooops squashed them all. | 21:16 |
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| clarkb | so I don't think it was made clear enough earlier. you do not have to squash if you are using WIP | 21:16 |
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| clarkb | WIP changes cannot merge | 21:16 |
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| stevemar | topol: termie: i have to head out, be back online soon | 21:16 |
| ayoung | clarkb, irrelevant | 21:17 |
| dolphm | termie: sometimes i do, yes | 21:17 |
| ayoung | what is relevant is that github, or any other public git repo, is controlled by the person doing the work. Posting on gerrit is the start of a formal review process. | 21:18 |
| dolphm | termie: and then i'll rip apart whatever i end up with into several distinct reviews | 21:18 |
| ayoung | topol, we used it at crunch time as part of the review process...I had it in a form that I was ready to have reviewed. THe fact that it took 60 reveiws to get committed is actually an indication of how immature the code was when submitted. | 21:19 |
| clarkb | ayoung: I think the idea with WIP when we implemented it was to flag things as explicitly not ready for formal review | 21:19 |
| clarkb | whcih is why they are not allowed to merge | 21:19 |
| ayoung | clarkb, I understand that. And it is agreat tool | 21:19 |
| ayoung | I use it regularly | 21:19 |
| termie | i am not claiming that gerritt is going to accidentally merge things as is | 21:19 |
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| topol | so we can look into getting the rules changed. but honestly that wont help us right now. and accrding to sdague its seems to be keystone that does it different than the other projects that do use WIP for this | 21:20 |
| termie | github == a tool | 21:20 |
| ayoung | topol, WIP has one big problem | 21:20 |
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| termie | it is an online place to stash code, often because i work from multiple computers | 21:20 |
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| ayoung | say I make my code a WIP, and submit on top of another unmerged change, it will mark the other change as a WIP as well | 21:20 |
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| ayoung | so if termie rebases to pick up a fix he needs, but that fix hasn't merged, he can't update his WIP review | 21:21 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that was a bug in git-review | 21:21 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, was or is? | 21:21 |
| dolphm | ayoung: it was ack'd by CI and i remember a discussion of a fix, but i haven't tested it myself | 21:22 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: thanks for the reviewing the patch | 21:22 |
| termie | dolphm: do you know what the git review flag for "just dump all this shit in gerrit please" is? | 21:22 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: I have no other explanation for getting always "GET" on the agent side | 21:22 |
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| termie | dolphm: i'm not seeing it in the help doc | 21:22 |
| dolphm | termie: i think git-review --yes | 21:22 |
| termie | dolphm: lulz | 21:22 |
| dolphm | termie: there's not a --wip option though... (--draft is there though) | 21:23 |
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| markmcclain | alexpilotti: strange the the HTTP should be preserved | 21:23 |
| termie | so, here's my philosophy on this, for future record at this point since i am just going to dump all this unfinished crap on gerrit, i only "formally" give to other people code that works | 21:24 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: I was equally amazed :-) | 21:24 |
| termie | stevemar was interested in working on code that i am working on, that code does not work yet | 21:24 |
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| termie | stevemar the way to get at that non-working code is through my code scratch pad, which is a branch in github | 21:25 |
| termie | the process is not formalized, not is it meant to be, it simply was a way to let stevemar see the code so he can work on his own things while i work on mine | 21:25 |
| mordred | termie: I actually agree that gerrit is not a great mechanism for in-progress collaboration if you're talking about changes larger than a patch or two | 21:25 |
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| topol | K, I can look into seeing if we can get approval to share directly via github and not gerrit. But I wont get an answer soon. And we really need to make sure WIP is not the blessed way to do this type of collaboration. Will suck to be me if I go fight for this and then learn that after dolphm educates us on all the sharing capabilitiess that WIP ended being just a fine way to do this | 21:26 |
| mordred | termie: there are some todo list items that should make that eventually better, but I know it's a thing that's painful now and needs work | 21:26 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: I'm going to do some more troubleshooting, just in case I missed something in the process | 21:27 |
| termie | topol: i think WIP is probably fine for a variety of things, looking at my code while i work on it is not one of them | 21:27 |
| mordred | I believe some of the legal things are that many people have gotten very specific contribution agreements and related instructions from their overlords | 21:27 |
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| topol | termie, or ayoung, can you email me some solid reasons why using WIP is unacceptable for collaboration. I will then joust with the windmills.... Or make sdague do it... :-) | 21:28 |
| termie | topol: if people want to wait for code "drops" from me, i am happy to push that to wip, but it _is_ something that slows down the development process | 21:28 |
| termie | topol: k, i'll email you and CC ayoung so you have somehting to joust with | 21:29 |
| topol | termie, perfect... Thanks. | 21:29 |
| dtroyer | e_steve: see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/26323/. It's expired as I haven't gotten back to finishing the proper tests for it. The idea though is to not use the brute-force method for find that ManagerWithFind does. | 21:29 |
| mordred | termie: at some point, I'd love to write down some thoughts on the subject and then drink some beer with you around thoughts of how we can move it forward and stuff | 21:30 |
| termie | mordred: i did a git review --yes -D, but it is failing because missing change id | 21:30 |
| topol | in the meantime if there is a way that you can be flexible so collaboration with stevemar can occur that would be appreciated. | 21:30 |
| termie | topol: yeah, working on it | 21:30 |
| topol | K, cool. | 21:30 |
| jeblair | termie: out of curiosity, how many commits are you about to push? | 21:30 |
| mordred | termie: yeah - gerrit is gonna be unbending on requiring change-ids. sorry. | 21:30 |
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| termie | mordred: i don't care about that, how do i get it to put the fucking change ids int | 21:31 |
| termie | i ahve 6 commits | 21:31 |
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| termie | mordred: "darn" change-ids in | 21:31 |
| mordred | termie: if you have the commit hook installed, you should be able to do a git rebase --what-ever-the-option-is-that-generates-new-commits /me goes to look | 21:31 |
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| termie | mordred: hmm, is the commit hook different from git-review? | 21:32 |
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| mordred | --no-ff | 21:32 |
| mordred | git review usually instlaled the commit hook the first time you use it in a given repo | 21:32 |
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| mordred | we'll re-commit a commit if you made it before instlaling the hook - but I don't believe we go back past one commit | 21:33 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/glance: Create package for registry's client https://review.openstack.org/27001 | 21:34 |
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| clarkb | you can `git review -s` to force it to do the initial dance again | 21:35 |
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| termie | https://gist.github.com/termie/c30a36890d238a172d1f | 21:35 |
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| termie | can i just copy that change-id into the commit messages of each commit? | 21:35 |
| termie | or does each get a different id? | 21:36 |
| clarkb | each needs a different one | 21:36 |
| termie | the rebase --no-ff didn't seem to do the trick | 21:36 |
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| termie | weird, all but two already have the ids | 21:37 |
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| clarkb | if you `git rebase -i HEAD~6` then change each pick to reword I think that will force it to generate new change ids for each commit as you save the commit messages | 21:37 |
| termie | clarkb: aha, that worked, so it is only when it checks the commit messages | 21:38 |
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| termie | clarkb: danke | 21:38 |
| HenryG | Has anyone tried the new Ubuntu 13.04 for development environment? For me, many of the quantum unit tests fail under 13.04 but passed under 12.04. Looks like a unicode thing? | 21:38 |
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| clarkb | termie: yeah its a post commit hook | 21:38 |
| termie | clarkb: sure, i just expected that mordred's suggestion would do the trick for that | 21:39 |
| mordred | I thought it would too :( | 21:39 |
| termie | sdague, dolphm: what's our legal stance on DRAFT | 21:39 |
| mordred | HenryG: I'm running 13.04 and I believe I have run the quantum unittest suite | 21:39 |
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| dolphm | termie: they're completely private | 21:40 |
| clarkb | mordred: you have't "upgraded" to wheezy inplace yet? | 21:40 |
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| clarkb | drafts are not truly secure | 21:40 |
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| clarkb | fwiw | 21:40 |
| termie | dolphm: so i have to go mark each as WIP? | 21:41 |
| termie | mordred: any git-review trick to mark as WIP? | 21:41 |
| mordred | termie: there used to be a flag for that, and it got lost somewhere along the way - I've got a todo list item to add it back | 21:42 |
| dolphm | mordred: ^++ | 21:42 |
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| dolphm | termie: so, yes | 21:42 |
| termie | LOOK UPON THESE WORKS AND TREMBLE: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27970/ | 21:42 |
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| dolphm | termie: lol you don't need to put anything into the wip text box | 21:45 |
| mordred | termie: do I have to tremble? or can I just shake a bit? | 21:45 |
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| HenryG | mordred: what version of Python? I got 2.7.4, shouldn't be a problem, right? | 21:46 |
| termie | mordred: feature request: make the WIP pop up not have a box | 21:47 |
| mordred | termie: funny you should ask that- we have potential new thoughts on WIP for when we upgrade to 2.6 | 21:47 |
| mordred | although I should also re-add --wip to git-review | 21:48 |
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| termie | stevemar: i'm not really sure how one intends to work with the 5 commits that are now up there as WIP, but whenever you run into trouble mark it down so that we can yell at your legal team /cc topol, sdague | 21:49 |
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| stevemar2 | termie: thanks for putting them in gerrit, the WIP comments are awesome | 22:04 |
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| termie | stevemar2: asdasdasfasd | 22:04 |
| termie | "assdassed assfassed" | 22:05 |
| termie | is the pronunciation on that, btw | 22:05 |
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| stevemar2 | termie: hehe, fwiw i appreciate your flexibility | 22:07 |
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| termie | you got my message about keeping track of your complaints, right? | 22:07 |
| stevemar2 | yup | 22:07 |
| termie | k, firrealz, it'll make things easier for topol and such to fight our battles | 22:08 |
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| stevemar2 | yeah, he and ayoung went through this already, i think we should be able to change the way it's done, 2 instances now :) | 22:08 |
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| dolphm | stevemar2: i'd be happy to contribute a third if it'll help | 22:10 |
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| dolphm | stevemar2: some day you'll be able to use pastebin | 22:10 |
| termie | all glory unto pastebin | 22:11 |
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| dolphm | s/pastebin/gist/ | 22:11 |
| stevemar2 | shh, i'll use it and just not tell anyone | 22:11 |
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| dolphm | stevemar2: THAT'S THE SPIRIT | 22:11 |
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| stevemar2 | ask for forgiveness, not permission :) | 22:12 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: good news, we don't need the header | 22:18 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: I'm resending the patch now | 22:18 |
| markmcclain | cool | 22:18 |
| alexpilotti | markmcclain: wonder what the issue was but my bad anyway for hurrying up w/o enough troubleshooting :-) | 22:19 |
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| markmcclain | no worries | 22:20 |
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| dolphm | termie: well worded | 22:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/devstack: Remove redundant arping package from apts/nova https://review.openstack.org/27465 | 22:28 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack-dev/devstack: Add configurable use of veths with Quantum+OVS. https://review.openstack.org/27396 | 22:30 |
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| jaypipes | termie: I was only following dolphm's instructions post-design-summit-session by putting up a patch to the identity-api spec. | 22:36 |
| termie | jaypipes: not mad you for that, just poking at dolphm that i think diffs are not the best place to read proposals | 22:36 |
| termie | jaypipes: that are mostly writing | 22:37 |
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| termie | jaypipes: i would still personally like a more thorough spec that goes through the needs of users and other services | 22:37 |
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| termie | jaypipes: examples of waht will be stored, and what we think the access patterns are | 22:38 |
| dolphm | *that* would be different, and that's a bit more of what we discussed in the session (in this case) | 22:38 |
| termie | jaypipes: i think there is way to solve this that actually makes things simpler down the long run | 22:38 |
| dolphm | termie: which is? | 22:38 |
| termie | dolphm: can't tell you until we have some actual usage examples | 22:39 |
| termie | dolphm: that's why you write those first | 22:39 |
| dolphm | jaypipes: the regions stuff might make this obsolete https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/service-relationships | 22:41 |
| termie | jaypipes: but i do want the nova use case in there, i've talked with vish about this briefly in the past so i'm sure he'll have things to ask for | 22:41 |
| dolphm | termie: so, here's a related use case for discussion https://etherpad.openstack.org/FolsomKeystoneServiceRelationships | 22:41 |
| dolphm | granted it also jumps straight to a solution | 22:42 |
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| e_steve | Hi all | 22:51 |
| e_steve | keystoneclient question ( Attempting to fix a bug, but im not sure if the server is misbehaving) | 22:51 |
| e_steve | Should this URL work: /v3/projects?id=960accfc09d74f98b5adddcd14649ea7 | 22:51 |
| e_steve | and filter out all projects not matching id = <> | 22:51 |
| e_steve | because as of now that request returns back all projects | 22:52 |
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| e_steve | anyone? | 22:54 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/python-cinderclient: Update setup.py prior to next upload to pypi. https://review.openstack.org/27921 | 23:15 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain: the patch is up for review, can I ask you to take a look when you have time? :-) | 23:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/nova: xenapi: Don't swallow missing SR exception https://review.openstack.org/27981 | 23:21 |
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| termie | well, another effective day of coding... | 23:23 |
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| termie | and by that i mean, arguing on irc instead of coding | 23:23 |
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| SpamapS | What I'm seeing is, if I call eventlet.sleep(0), I get a bunch of old greenthreads taking their turn.. spraying useless stuff out in my test suite | 23:49 |
| SpamapS | but eventlet.sleep(0.1) ... no such thing happens | 23:49 |
| SpamapS | This being a test suite, Ideally I'd like for all greenthreads to be cleaned up between each test. | 23:50 |
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