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creiht | zykes-: yes, lunr :) | 02:04 |
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hugokuo | morning | 04:52 |
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hugokuo | What's the difference between "execute run_tests.sh" with nosetests under /keystone/keystone " ? | 04:56 |
openstackgerrit | Verification of a change to openstack/glance failed: fix bug lp:980892,update glance doc. https://review.openstack.org/6572 | 04:58 |
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openstackgerrit | Verification of a change to openstack/glance failed: fix bug lp:980892,update glance doc. https://review.openstack.org/6572 | 05:05 |
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openstackgerrit | Verification of a change to openstack/glance failed: fix bug lp:980892,update glance doc. https://review.openstack.org/6572 | 06:02 |
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maploin | can I send a patch to Gerrit to a different branch than master? i.e. stable/essex? | 15:16 |
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maploin | oh, got it. Nevermind. | 15:17 |
Kiall | maploin, if the patch has not need accepted + merged to master beforehand, it wont be accepted | 15:18 |
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Kiall | all commits to stable/* must be cherry-pick's from master (with a few exceptions..) | 15:18 |
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maploin | Kiall: yeah, I needed to do it this way because it wouldn't apply cleanly to master. But I submitted an equivalent fix to master. | 15:31 |
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Kiall | maploin, I *think* the policy is still cherry-pick once its approved to master+fixup.. | 15:33 |
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Kiall | one of the reasons being, the change-id should be the same - so an fix can be identified as included in both master+stable/bla etc | 15:33 |
maploin | Kiall: hm... but the same fix can't be applied to both master and stable since the two branches have diverged. Are you saying that commits must be made to first sync the two branches and then apply the same patch? (that doesn't make sense) | 15:35 |
Kiall | maploin, not quite.. The fix must be approved for master first, once that happens, the fix can be backported to stable/* (cherry pick+make whatever changes are necessary to backport) | 15:36 |
Kiall | But.. There are always exceptions ;) Sometimes that just doesnt work! | 15:37 |
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rohit404 | #osds-seacliff-d | 15:57 |
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rohit404 | test | 16:06 |
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Kiall | vishy, ping | 17:10 |
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vishy | Kiall: sup? | 17:10 |
Kiall | re https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/966529 | 17:10 |
uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 966529 in nova "floating ip does not move with live migration with multi_host" [Medium,Triaged] | 17:10 |
Kiall | you note that the DHCP is moved during a migration? Did that make it in? | 17:11 |
Kiall | I didn't notice that working during my tests | 17:11 |
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Kiall | Also .. I've just implemented the ability for all nova-network instances to share a single fixed ip, so the instances gateway etc doesnt need to change.. | 17:12 |
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vishy | Kiall: yes it made it in | 17:12 |
Kiall | (eg no need to loose connectivity when the instance migrates, before DHCP is re-ran) | 17:12 |
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vishy | Kiall: interesting, we have a client that does that, you need ebtables rules to block? | 17:13 |
Kiall | Yea, exactly | 17:13 |
Kiall | Turned out to be a pretty small patch once I corrected my typo's ;) | 17:13 |
vishy | Kiall: you can give out the gateway of the switch as well | 17:14 |
vishy | Kiall: the fix for changing the host is basically a one liner | 17:14 |
vishy | (host ip) | 17:14 |
vishy | but the ebtables rules they are managing separately | 17:14 |
WormMan | yay! puppet! | 17:15 |
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WormMan | (we're up to 20 VLANs now...) | 17:15 |
Kiall | one liner? Did I miss something built in to have all nova-networks use the same IP? | 17:15 |
Kiall | I basically ended up with this.. https://gist.github.com/2407592 | 17:16 |
WormMan | Kiall: not sure what version you're on, but there have been some naming of hosts for assigned IPs fixed in Essex, but I'm not sure if that helps you with migration, other than adding another step to update host in the floating table when you migrate | 17:19 |
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WormMan | (it fixes the glitch when a shared nova-network gets restarted so it sees the floating ips it's supposed to manage still) | 17:20 |
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WormMan | (and maybe the fixed table, I don't remember the exact diffs) | 17:21 |
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Kiall | WormMan, not sure I understand? | 17:21 |
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Kiall | This suggests the fixed_ip should move just fine, and that floating needs a workaround for the moment.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/966529 | 17:22 |
uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 966529 in nova "floating ip does not move with live migration with multi_host" [Medium,Triaged] | 17:22 |
WormMan | Kiall: with the old mutli-host stuff it doesn't track the hostname of nova-network that manages the IP, if nova-network gets restarted(reboot) it doesn't pick up those floating IPs again and you have to re-assign them | 17:23 |
openstackgerrit | Verification of a change to openstack/horizon failed: html escape the console log in refresh https://review.openstack.org/6618 | 17:23 |
WormMan | probably not a problem for you... yet :) | 17:24 |
Kiall | yet ;) | 17:24 |
vishy | Kiall: why not http://paste.openstack.org/show/12920/ | 17:24 |
Kiall | Will be upgrading to essex once I get multi_host+migration going.. | 17:24 |
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vishy | Kiall: multi_host + migration moving the dhcp doesn't work until essex | 17:25 |
WormMan | mmm, break time | 17:25 |
Kiall | Yea, I've got essex on a few servers to test against.. | 17:25 |
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Kiall | vishy, your suggestion means the gateway IP needs to be "hard coded" when creating the network.. right? | 17:26 |
Kiall | vs mine has one chosen for you when that network is first brought up.. | 17:27 |
Kiall | Not sure which I (personally) prefer ;) | 17:27 |
Kiall | Defining it in advance probably does make sense, and would prevent "shared" entries in the DB | 17:28 |
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vishy | Kiall: advance is better | 17:35 |
vishy | we already reserve the .1 ip | 17:35 |
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vishy | might as well use it | 17:35 |
Kiall | true | 17:36 |
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Kiall | If this works, then its just the floating IPs to get moved ;) Fingers crossed! | 17:38 |
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openstackgerrit | Verification of a change to openstack/horizon failed: html escape the console log in refresh https://review.openstack.org/6618 | 17:59 |
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mathrock | ping? | 18:37 |
mathrock | Any one interested in the PKI auth for keystone stuff | 18:37 |
russellb | I know ayoung is | 18:38 |
ayoung | yep | 18:39 |
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ayoung | where is it happening? | 18:39 |
ayoung | mathrock, where? | 18:39 |
mathrock | I'm in a hallway in the Hyatt | 18:39 |
mathrock | you're remote, correct? | 18:39 |
mathrock | How do you want to work this? | 18:39 |
ayoung | mathrock, I'm in Westfrod, MA | 18:39 |
ayoung | westford | 18:40 |
mathrock | ok | 18:40 |
ayoung | telepathy? | 18:40 |
mathrock | so the etherpad is: http://etherpad.openstack.org/FolsomPKISupport | 18:40 |
justinsb | PKI FTW | 18:40 |
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ayoung | so my opinion is that we should work towards reuse as opposed to inventing something new | 18:41 |
mathrock | sure | 18:41 |
ayoung | hence: mod_wsgi and apache, mod_nss for SSL and cert support and so on | 18:41 |
ayoung | that sets REMOTE_USER and we can use that | 18:41 |
mathrock | that would be the easiest route from my point of view | 18:42 |
mathrock | since I have experience with that | 18:42 |
ayoung | the real issue is the issuingin of certificates | 18:42 |
mathrock | I don't know how the keystone folks feel about fronting it with HTTPD | 18:42 |
ayoung | The "reuse" path would be Dogtag...but that is Java. Which is I think the real blocker | 18:42 |
ayoung | not fronting | 18:42 |
ayoung | replacing | 18:42 |
ayoung | with httpd, there is no need for eventlet | 18:43 |
ayoung | plus, eventlet seems to be introducing issues.... | 18:43 |
ayoung | Since I am on a rampage, I also want to get away from using ports other than 443...call me adreamer | 18:44 |
ayoung | but I'm not the only one | 18:44 |
cloudfly | there should be a security standard for this | 18:44 |
cloudfly | TLS vs SSL vs whatever | 18:44 |
ayoung | cloudfly +5 | 18:44 |
cloudfly | what algorithms are supported | 18:45 |
cloudfly | what ports | 18:45 |
mathrock | i agree with 443 and ssl/tls | 18:45 |
cloudfly | etc etc | 18:45 |
cloudfly | i mean every api should support the same minimum set | 18:45 |
ayoung | the other issue with going off of 443 is that we have SELinux conflicts | 18:45 |
ayoung | other services own those ports. | 18:45 |
mathrock | ayoung: basically my need is client cert auth to keystone instead of username/password | 18:45 |
cloudfly | 443 no joke | 18:45 |
cloudfly | mathrock can't you just store the token? | 18:46 |
mathrock | initially I don't want keystone to worry about certificate issuance and management | 18:46 |
ayoung | mathrock, so I think that thie right solution for that is a different middleware | 18:46 |
cloudfly | i have a similar requirement for something i am working on | 18:46 |
justinsb | Maybe we punt on the cert issuance for now, and leave it up to the implementer | 18:46 |
mathrock | cert issuance could be a separate service entirely | 18:46 |
cloudfly | mathrock that would be nice | 18:46 |
ayoung | justinsb, I think that is the first step...we need to lay out the whole road map, but provide an attainable path forward | 18:47 |
cloudfly | also could open a path for two factor | 18:47 |
cloudfly | signed certs and all | 18:47 |
cloudfly | i feel like in general a lot of this should involve some sort of security governance | 18:47 |
cloudfly | and that's not happening | 18:47 |
cloudfly | and it's going to bite us in the ass if someone without policy experience isn't involved. | 18:47 |
ayoung | So ... looking at the LDAP Identity provider, we would have to modify the authenticate call to drop the password check | 18:48 |
mathrock | basically, my organization already has a formal certificate issuance and management process | 18:48 |
mathrock | all users have x509 certs | 18:48 |
cloudfly | i mean the api server has a token checking method | 18:48 |
mathrock | and we use they all over the place to signed/encrypted email, authentication to web apps, etc | 18:48 |
cloudfly | so i assume it would just be a similar method | 18:48 |
ayoung | mathrock, so do you really even need keystone? | 18:48 |
cloudfly | actually | 18:48 |
mathrock | yes | 18:49 |
cloudfly | why not make certificates a plugin to keystone? | 18:49 |
ayoung | I would think that for X509 orgs, they would rather go X509 to Dashboard/Glance/Nova | 18:49 |
cloudfly | like any other auth mech? | 18:49 |
mathrock | not everyone who has a cert will need to use openstack | 18:49 |
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mathrock | and we don't need to reimplement authN/authZ | 18:49 |
ayoung | mathrock, so that becomes authorization, not authentication | 18:49 |
mathrock | it's just a different auth method | 18:49 |
ayoung | which right now is done by querying Keystone | 18:49 |
ayoung | but could be a direct LDAP call | 18:49 |
ayoung | mathrock, lets distinguish authz and authn | 18:49 |
mathrock | ayoung: we've already hacked in support to horizon for PKI auth | 18:49 |
cloudfly | i think you should avoid direct ldap queries | 18:49 |
ayoung | cloudfly, why? | 18:50 |
cloudfly | portability | 18:50 |
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mathrock | the trick is that keystone only supports auth via user/pass or unscoped token->scoped token | 18:50 |
ayoung | cloudfly, why do two network hops ? | 18:50 |
ayoung | glance->keystone->ldap... | 18:50 |
cloudfly | portability | 18:50 |
ayoung | cloudfly, I'd argu that LDAP is more portable than Keystone.... | 18:50 |
ayoung | But anyway | 18:50 |
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cloudfly | right now it is =D | 18:50 |
ayoung | I would say that Keystone and LDAP are two different middleware pieces and we should support both | 18:51 |
justinsb | Is it enough just to add client cert verification to keystone, use that to replace password auth, as a first step? | 18:51 |
ayoung | justinsb, yes. | 18:52 |
ayoung | although we have to modify the ID providers too | 18:52 |
ayoung | so that they can work either way | 18:52 |
justinsb | ID providers? | 18:52 |
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ayoung | justinsb, I'll provide a link 1 sec | 18:52 |
ayoung | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/tree/master/keystone/identity/backends | 18:52 |
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ayoung | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/identity/backends/sql.py line 138 | 18:53 |
ayoung | actually, line 147 is the passwrod check | 18:53 |
ayoung | password | 18:53 |
ayoung | for LDAP it is a different file, but the logic is similar | 18:53 |
ayoung | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/identity/backends/ldap/core.py | 18:54 |
justinsb | Ah - got it! Putting the password as the only authn method probably doesn't belong there! | 18:54 |
ayoung | it actually does a simple_bind to test the password | 18:54 |
ayoung | justinsb, well, by the time you get this far, you should already be authenticated | 18:55 |
ayoung | if the Web server does Client auth...at least the REMOTE_USER should be set already, and then we should be looking at ROLES | 18:55 |
justinsb | I think we're in agreement here. I think we need to abstract / replace the password verification | 18:56 |
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justinsb | LDAP bind is one technique; utils.check_password is another | 18:56 |
ayoung | So split authenticate into two calls. authenticate as is does the password ch3eck. For X509 that gets skipped. Then second is to do the metadata lookup | 18:56 |
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justinsb | Right - agreed! | 18:56 |
ayoung | justinsb, I think you are close | 18:56 |
ayoung | if we specify basic auth or the current API, then passwrod goes through an Identity Provider specific method | 18:57 |
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ayoung | if we instead do client certs, it gets evaluated by a different middleware piece, perhaps the web server | 18:57 |
justinsb | So client cert would just check with that middleware? | 18:58 |
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ayoung | BTW, if anyone wants to test out, I have HTTPD set up this way: http://adam.younglogic.com/2012/03/ssl-nss-easy/ http://adam.younglogic.com/2012/03/client-certs-nss/ http://adam.younglogic.com/2012/04/keystone-httpd/ | 18:59 |
ayoung | one change from that last one is that we should probably first do it as a different virtual host, one that listend on ports 5000 and the admin port | 18:59 |
ayoung | justinsb, yeah, client cert would be an alternative middleware | 19:00 |
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ayoung | OK. so now that we have the solution lets talk about the problems | 19:01 |
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ayoung | 1. Once a user specifies an X509 cert, they are never prompted again for some interaction. This lends itself to XSRF attacks amoung other things | 19:01 |
ayoung | thus, 2 factor is probably essential | 19:01 |
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ayoung | all the other drawbacks of Keystone are still there: it drives more network traffic than the rest of openstack combined, as every service needs to phone home to Keyston to confirm tokens | 19:03 |
ayoung | the Tokens show up in the URL names, and thus will show up in logs etc. | 19:04 |
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ogelbukh | i thought keystone api 2.0 puts token in headers | 19:07 |
justinsb | ayoung: On the XSRF front, the attack would be that I put it into an iframe & then grab the contents? | 19:08 |
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mathrock | ayoung: did you want to get rid of tokens entirely? | 19:11 |
ayoung | mathrock, I thought that was apparent! | 19:11 |
ayoung | I want to replace tokens with and X509 based system | 19:11 |
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ayoung | The X509 can have the roles embedded in them, so remote systems do not need to go back to Keystone to confirm | 19:12 |
ayoung | It will cur network chatter down immensely | 19:12 |
ayoung | the X509's can be issued by Keystone, or by something else | 19:13 |
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justinsb | I think we should assume that many users will have existing PKI systems, and it would be hard to add roles into them | 19:14 |
justinsb | And also then you'd have to reissue a cert to add a user to a role | 19:14 |
ayoung | justinsb, OK, so the rule is "Authentication is centralized, authorization is local" | 19:14 |
ayoung | certs can be short lived | 19:15 |
mathrock | ayoung, the problem with roles baked in certs makes it difficult to remove/modify roles | 19:15 |
mathrock | certs are just for identity | 19:15 |
ayoung | mathrock, that is why certs should be short lived | 19:15 |
mathrock | not authorization | 19:15 |
ayoung | mathrock, "just because it has always been done that way doesn't mean it is right." | 19:15 |
ayoung | in this case, we can provide an additional cert | 19:15 |
ayoung | short lived | 19:15 |
ayoung | the user uses their corporate assigned cert (long term) | 19:16 |
ayoung | to get a short lived cert | 19:16 |
ayoung | short lived cert is issued by a subordinate CA | 19:16 |
ayoung | Dashborad et alles only accept certs from the subordinate CA | 19:16 |
ayoung | then, when the user hits it from their browser, if the cert is invalid, they are redirected to the auth page. | 19:17 |
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ayoung | they can enter in a second factor if required | 19:17 |
ayoung | and they get issued another short lived cert | 19:17 |
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justinsb | But step #1 could still be just "validate cert" for Keystone? | 19:17 |
ayoung | so, yes, if I remove a role today, you will have to wait until the end of the day for the user to not have access to it...the alternative if OCSP or CRLs | 19:18 |
ayoung | justinsb, as I said, yes | 19:18 |
ayoung | necessary but not sufficient | 19:18 |
ayoung | and, might I add, pretty trivial | 19:18 |
justinsb | Cool! | 19:18 |
justinsb | I think fixing the Keystone traffic issue might be separate ? | 19:18 |
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ayoung | justinsb, builds on top of... | 19:19 |
justinsb | But maybe that issue isn't specific to certs? | 19:20 |
justinsb | e.g. We could use a system like Zookeeper as a cache, which notifies subscribers on changes | 19:20 |
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ayoung | justinsb, but the only good solution is to use certs. Otherwise, we have to query a central auth server. OK. we could use Kerberos. | 19:20 |
ayoung | nope, tokens are too short lived, everything is a cache miss | 19:20 |
ayoung | too many changes...too many notifications | 19:21 |
ayoung | so zookeeper is really a poor replacement for a CRL mechanism.... | 19:21 |
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mathrock | OK, since it seems like we've agreed to minimally support client cert auth, let's work towards that. | 19:22 |
mathrock | Basically re-implement the 2-way ssl thing | 19:22 |
ayoung | OK, so X509 to Keystone is useless if the rest of the system is insecure | 19:22 |
ayoung | so yes, first step is an X509 | 19:22 |
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ayoung | but lets not stop there, or this is a finger drill | 19:22 |
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mathrock | i agree that we'll need to go beyond just cert auth | 19:26 |
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mathrock | but at least we can start working that first step | 19:26 |
mathrock | ok, we're off | 19:26 |
mathrock | thanks for the discussion | 19:26 |
justinsb | Cool! Sounds like a plan! | 19:26 |
mathrock | a bit tricky over irc, but I think we got some consensus | 19:27 |
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zaitcev | Goddamit Justin where is your Etherpad | 19:27 |
zaitcev | Even Caitlin created one (although its content was largely unrelated to the discussion) | 19:27 |
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zaitcev | gtg lunch | 19:27 |
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z | Is it normal to have anything other than OpenStack LLC as a Copyright entry in a file? | 19:33 |
z | https://github.com/openstack/nova/commit/1b207d44340f88d560b469d0a30f99839a63dc61#nova/api/openstack/compute/contrib/security_groups.py | 19:33 |
z | I would have thought that Justin being in there is redundant given the CLA which he must have signed to contribute? | 19:33 |
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Kiall | z, personally, I don't like it.. But it seems its okay | 19:41 |
Kiall | Give it 5 years, and the copyright headers are going to be a joke ;) | 19:41 |
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z | I suspect more like 12 months... :) | 19:42 |
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openstackgerrit | Verification of a change to openstack/horizon failed: Add distribute to test-requires. https://review.openstack.org/6626 | 20:00 |
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justinsb | zaitcev: Ooops, sorry. Was there a particular session you were looking for? | 20:28 |
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mikal | Is there existing code somewhere in nova to handling simple test config files? | 21:49 |
mikal | For example, I want to sstash a couple of values in a text file for later access | 21:49 |
mikal | But it would be nice to reuse someone's implementation if there is one | 21:49 |
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zykes- | pixelbeat: can you get newer swift packages ? | 23:30 |
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pixelbeat | zykes-, what swift issue/version do you have/want exactly? | 23:57 |
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pixelbeat | zykes-, oh I assumed 1.4.8 was there rather than 1.4.6 | 23:59 |
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