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| openstackgerrit | OpenStack Proposal Bot proposed openstack/ceilometer: Imported Translations from Transifex https://review.openstack.org/132619 | 06:06 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ceilometer: Change event type for identity trust notifications https://review.openstack.org/134252 | 07:50 |
| llu | eglynn: has the gnocchi bootstrap time been decided? | 08:08 |
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| openstackgerrit | BrianLing proposed openstack/ceilometer: For compute resource, expose instance's metadata information in resource_metadata Closes-Bug: 1391778 https://review.openstack.org/134877 | 08:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed openstack/ceilometer: Remove module not really used by Ceilometer https://review.openstack.org/134563 | 09:01 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed openstack/ceilometer: Switch to oslo.concurrency https://review.openstack.org/134552 | 09:01 |
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| openstackgerrit | Romain Soufflet proposed stackforge/gnocchi: Add get_entity method in indexer https://review.openstack.org/134485 | 09:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Eoghan Glynn proposed stackforge/gnocchi: Minor readability improvements to carbonara https://review.openstack.org/134621 | 11:05 |
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| jd__ | eglynn: I wondered several times about renaming "entity" to something else, WDYT? something like metric or timeserie, not sure | 12:12 |
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| eglynn | jd__: yeah, fair point, it's almost *too* generic | 12:13 |
| eglynn | jd__: if choosing between metric and timeserie, I'd go with metric | 12:13 |
| jd__ | yeah, it was a good choice back then when I was fooling around with Gnocchi and the concepts I was not sure about | 12:13 |
| jd__ | now it's clearer how everything works so I wonder | 12:13 |
| jd__ | ok I'll keep that in mind, I might do a patch doing some s/// :) | 12:14 |
| cdent | I know that when I first looked at the code the term “entity” made things more confusing | 12:14 |
| eglynn | jd__: so metric seems to me like the higher-level concept (i.e a metric is backed by a set of timeseries of different granularities/retention) | 12:14 |
| jd__ | good point | 12:15 |
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| openstackgerrit | Merged stackforge/gnocchi: Minor readability improvements to carbonara https://review.openstack.org/134621 | 12:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed openstack/ceilometer: Remove module not really used by Ceilometer https://review.openstack.org/134563 | 13:25 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed openstack/ceilometer: Switch to oslo.concurrency https://review.openstack.org/134552 | 13:25 |
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| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: rest: allow to have infinite retention in policies https://review.openstack.org/134508 | 13:40 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed openstack/ceilometer: Remove module not really used by Ceilometer https://review.openstack.org/134563 | 13:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed openstack/ceilometer: Switch to oslo.concurrency https://review.openstack.org/134552 | 13:42 |
| openstackgerrit | Lena Novokshonova proposed openstack/ceilometer: Fix order of arguments in assertEquals https://review.openstack.org/134940 | 13:47 |
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| openstackgerrit | Lena Novokshonova proposed openstack/ceilometer: Fix order of arguments in assertEquals https://review.openstack.org/134940 | 13:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Lena Novokshonova proposed openstack/ceilometer: Fix order of arguments in assertEquals https://review.openstack.org/134940 | 14:00 |
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| eglynn | just a reminder that the gnocchi walkthru' doodle poll is closed http://doodle.com/4dutdtq3m7kztysd ... the preferred timelot was 1500UTC today | 14:18 |
| eglynn | here's the g+ hangout link https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cts3l8lmi7333friiii4rurr9no | 14:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Romain Soufflet proposed stackforge/gnocchi: Add get_entity method in indexer https://review.openstack.org/134485 | 14:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | BrianLing proposed openstack/ceilometer: For compute resource, expose instance's metadata information in resource_metadata The related bug id: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1391778 https://review.openstack.org/134877 | 14:28 |
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| fabiog | cdent: do you have the link for the google hangout presentation, please? | 14:44 |
| cdent | yeah, just a sec, I think I can find it | 14:44 |
| gordc | https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cts3l8lmi7333friiii4rurr9no | 14:44 |
| fabiog | gordc: thanks | 14:45 |
| cdent | too late | 14:45 |
| gordc | cdent: i had it in chat history :) | 14:45 |
| gordc | if it's wrong, blame eglynn | 14:45 |
| eglynn | fabiog: yep, wot gordc said | 14:46 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: Update oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/134955 | 14:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: Import policy from oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/134956 | 14:47 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: rest: implement policy checks for post measures https://review.openstack.org/134957 | 14:47 |
| * cdent wonders if the desire to externalize all things is cultural or genetic | 14:48 | |
| eglynn | cdent: "externalize all things"? | 14:49 |
| cdent | kill monoliths, make everything a plugin | 14:49 |
| cdent | (reacting to response on a comment of mine on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109367/ ) | 14:49 |
| cdent | In previous environments it was the default and anything to the contrary was considered a bit weird. In this one the opposite often feels true. | 14:50 |
| cdent | So I'm wondering what the progenitors might be. | 14:50 |
| gordc | cdent: solution diversity? | 14:51 |
| cdent | I'm not following you gordc ? | 14:52 |
| gordc | cdent: not sure if it's a valid reason, but i think it's because for better or worse, everyone has opinion on how to implement metering/monitoring... making everything pluggable allows that. | 14:54 |
| cdent | Ah, I see why I'm confused, I didn't make my point quite right: | 14:54 |
| cdent | I'm saying: why isn't all the stuff which is already pluggable distributed _separately_ from the core. | 14:54 |
| cdent | Since it is already a plugin, it shouldn't be in the core | 14:54 |
| cdent | having it in the core makes noise | 14:54 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: doc: fix typo in resource type type https://review.openstack.org/134962 | 14:55 |
| cdent | I'm of the camp that says: yes to plugins, but also yes to separate distribution | 14:55 |
| cdent | good for testing! | 14:55 |
| gordc | cdent: ah i see... i guess the intend is that if you put it in core, you don't have to fix it if it breaks... whoever breaks it needs to fix it. | 14:55 |
| fabiog | cdent: but do you want a plugin in stackforge or a Ceilo plugin structure? | 14:55 |
| fabiog | cdent: in Keystone we had a contrib folder for plug-ins that were maintained by the group | 14:56 |
| gordc | cdent: plugins are great... because i'm an expert in hbase, mongo, sql, etc... /sarcasm | 14:56 |
| cdent | Ideally the code would just live out there in the world of opensource, neither in ceilo nor stackforge | 14:56 |
| cdent | you know, there's this thing called the internet and it allows _open_ source | 14:56 |
| cdent | ;) | 14:57 |
| fabiog | cdent:: I just suggested tomake the HTTPDispacher sending CADF, so at least there is a certain amount of potential re-use | 14:57 |
| gordc | cdent: i think if we can get ceilometer in real world we'll be able to move to a more concise "core" ceilometer... | 14:58 |
| gordc | right now i'm not sure anyone knows what the right 'core' is. | 14:58 |
| cdent | perhaps, but I think the lack of core is part of what makes it hard to get it into real world | 14:58 |
| gordc | cdent: agreed... catch-22 | 14:58 |
| cdent | I think we need some cold hearted killahs | 14:59 |
| eglynn | cdent: are you talking about per-plugin git repos or distributable packages? | 14:59 |
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| cdent | separate repos | 14:59 |
| gordc | cdent: :) write a spec: "Burn down the world" | 14:59 |
| cdent | gordc: I've been writing that spec since I was about 13 | 15:00 |
| * gordc waits for the manifesto. | 15:00 | |
| cdent | http://manifestopheles.com/manifestos/manifestopheles | 15:01 |
| eglynn | cdent: we can have separate repos, but these would be under the ceilometer project umbrella ... not out in the wild interwebs | 15:01 |
| cdent | That's the crux of the biscuit eglynn. You make that statement categorically, but why? | 15:01 |
| jd__ | oye | 15:01 |
| gordc | lol we're all missing meeting | 15:02 |
| eglynn | jd__: do you need to press a big green start button? | 15:02 |
| jd__ | I did | 15:02 |
| jd__ | I AM LIVE ON THE INTERNET | 15:02 |
| gordc | i'm goig to be late... | 15:02 |
| gordc | carry on | 15:02 |
| eglynn | jd__: hmmm ... "The live video broadcast will start soon" | 15:02 |
| jd__ | refresh? | 15:03 |
| cdent | refresh worked | 15:03 |
| eglynn | jd__: cool, got it :) | 15:03 |
| jd__ | I got 2 viewers | 15:03 |
| jd__ | I can invite people if you want to join and chat | 15:04 |
| jd__ | let me know | 15:04 |
| jd__ | otherwise I'll be reading on IRC | 15:04 |
| eglynn | jd__: which ever is most convenient for multi-task with | 15:04 |
| fabiog | jd__: hi | 15:04 |
| nadya_ | hi all! | 15:04 |
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| jd__ | IRC being async it's going to be easier I guess | 15:05 |
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| eglynn | jd__: cool | 15:05 |
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| eglynn | cdent: hold that thought, after the hangout | 15:05 |
| * cdent nods | 15:05 | |
| cdent | no rush, in fact it's probably better _written_ | 15:05 |
| cdent | (thus inclusive) | 15:05 |
| * cdent has decided that jd__ is the long lost 4th member of the beastie bosy | 15:06 | |
| jd__ | everyone's hearing me? just to be sure | 15:07 |
| cdent | lost you | 15:07 |
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| jd__ | I lost wifi for a sec :/ | 15:07 |
| cdent | back now | 15:07 |
| eglynn | back | 15:07 |
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| eglynn | jd__: hey | 15:08 |
| jd__ | yes? | 15:08 |
| jd__ | ok I guess there's a 2 minutes lag as usual | 15:08 |
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| fabiog | jd__: is the rest api consuming the same format produced by Ceilo Dispatcher or get the original format? | 15:13 |
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| cdent | object dispatch-- | 15:14 |
| eglynn | fabiog: original format? ... do you mean the ceilometer classical sample format? | 15:14 |
| fabiog | eglynn: I mean the notifications published by the services without massaging into samples | 15:15 |
| eglynn | fabiog: gnocchi measures are much more distilled than samples | 15:15 |
| eglynn | down again? | 15:15 |
| fabiog | yep | 15:16 |
| ildikov | yeap | 15:16 |
| * cdent nods | 15:16 | |
| gordc | i think jd__ is gone. he dropped on our internal chat as well. | 15:16 |
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| eglynn | fabiog: samples include lots of metadata, much closer to the original notification payload | 15:16 |
| eglynn | fabiog: gnocchi measures are feather light by comparison | 15:16 |
| eglynn | fabiog: just a timestamp plus value | 15:16 |
| fabiog | eglynn: but who does the conversion, is it done in the API or external to the API | 15:17 |
| eglynn | fabiog: currently done in a ceilometer dispatcher | 15:17 |
| eglynn | fabiog: so external to gnocchi right now | 15:17 |
| cdent | which seems a much better way | 15:17 |
| fabiog | eglynn: ok, thanks | 15:17 |
| cdent | keeps gnocchi doing what gnocchi does well, only | 15:17 |
| eglynn | fabiog: as it happens that ceilometer dispatchers lives in the gnocchi repo (proposed as a patch to same) | 15:18 |
| jd__ | sorry looks I lost my connection again | 15:18 |
| jd__ | I should have stayed home | 15:18 |
| jd__ | :-) | 15:18 |
| eglynn | fabiog: but conceptually upstream from the gnocchi API | 15:18 |
| eglynn | jd__: office wifi? | 15:18 |
| cdent | eglynn: are there plans to put it in ceilometer instead? | 15:18 |
| jd__ | yes, never had any issue so far but that's the right moment to start | 15:19 |
| ildikov | I think it's simply Monday... | 15:19 |
| eglynn | jd__: is there an option to use a wired connection | 15:19 |
| eglynn | ? | 15:19 |
| jd__ | eglynn: not on my Mac :) | 15:19 |
| eglynn | cdent: all options are on the table re. the final resting place of all this code, for the mo' treated as a gnocchi patch purely for convenience | 15:20 |
| cdent | cool, seems like the dispatcher ought to go with the rest of the dispatchers, but gnocchi itself would benefit from staying apart | 15:20 |
| eglynn | points and timespan are just different ways of expressing the same idea | 15:21 |
| openstackgerrit | ZhiQiang Fan proposed openstack/ceilometer: Do not raise exception when libvirt returns None for memory usage https://review.openstack.org/134966 | 15:21 |
| eglynn | usually an entity is created in the context of a resource | 15:24 |
| amalagon | is the indexer.create_resource being changed to indexer.create_entity? | 15:25 |
| fabiog | jd__: why do you need to link the policy with the entity? Isn't expressed as instance.vcpu 1week ... | 15:25 |
| eglynn | amalagon: former creates a resource, latter creates just an entity | 15:25 |
| amalagon | so even in create_entity indexer.create_resource would be used? | 15:26 |
| eglynn | fabiog: the policy determines the granularity and retention for the entity | 15:26 |
| eglynn | amalagon: the resource may be pre-existing | 15:27 |
| eglynn | amalagon: an entity captures data for just one aspect of the resource | 15:27 |
| eglynn | amalagon: in general many entities may be associated with a single resource | 15:27 |
| fabiog | ok thanks | 15:27 |
| amalagon | I see, thanks! | 15:27 |
| openstackgerrit | Merged openstack/ceilometer: Skip to poll and publish when no resources found https://review.openstack.org/132169 | 15:29 |
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| cdent | best exception name ever | 15:30 |
| eglynn | jd__: referencing that carbonara exception in the REST layer is prolly a layer-violation, or? | 15:31 |
| jd__ | yes | 15:31 |
| jd__ | definitely :) | 15:31 |
| jd__ | we should change that | 15:31 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:31 |
| eglynn | jd__: how about switching that dict in the get_measures response to a list? | 15:33 |
| jd__ | I thought I did it but I will | 15:33 |
| eglynn | jd__: a-ha it does now, you're right | 15:34 |
| jd__ | is my code not up to date? | 15:34 |
| jd__ | yeah M-x revert-buffer | 15:34 |
| jd__ | :D | 15:34 |
| eglynn | jd__: yeah, you've changed it now on trunk | 15:35 |
| fabiog | so in a value received as measure for disk.read.bytes it does mean that disk is resource and read.bytes is entity and then the value 5000 and timestamp is the measure ... is that right? | 15:36 |
| eglynn | fabiog: yep | 15:37 |
| fabiog | eglynn: but why do you need an entity id? isn't that the case that all these "sample" names are unique? | 15:37 |
| fabiog | meaning disk.read.bytes | 15:37 |
| eglynn | fabiog: so that the entity can be referred decoupled from the resource | 15:38 |
| eglynn | fabiog: but within the context of a resource, it can be referred to by name | 15:38 |
| fabiog | eglynn: I was wondering if you coud this in a reactive way ... I save the data as disk.read.bytes 5000 T1 | 15:39 |
| fabiog | and then I distill the fact that it refers to the disk resource | 15:39 |
| fabiog | and then to the read.byte entity | 15:39 |
| eglynn | fabiog: "reactive" ==> do you mean create the entity as a side-effect of POSTing the first measure? | 15:39 |
| fabiog | eglynn: afterwards so I will release client fast and then process the measure to decouple it into pieces | 15:40 |
| nadya_ | eglynn: one entity can be referenced by only one resource, right? | 15:40 |
| eglynn | fabiog: the problem with implicitly creating the entity from a measure is specifying the archive policy | 15:41 |
| eglynn | nadya_: in practice, yes | 15:41 |
| eglynn | nadya_: but that was strictly not required by the original schema | 15:41 |
| fabiog | eglynn: that is the part I really don't understand ... What is the level of granularity you can write a policy against? disk. disk.read and disk.read.bytes? | 15:42 |
| eglynn | fabiog: archice policies can be set per-entity | 15:42 |
| fabiog | eglynn: so you can have one for disk.read.bytes. Can you also have a generic one for disk? | 15:43 |
| fabiog | meaning at the resource level? | 15:43 |
| eglynn | fabiog: one acrhive policy per entity | 15:43 |
| eglynn | fabiog: an entity is aspect of an *individual* resource | 15:44 |
| eglynn | fabiog: so for a single resource, different entities can have different archive policies | 15:44 |
| eglynn | fabiog: e.g. to keep cpu_util measures for less time than some other instance metric | 15:44 |
| fabiog | sure, but basically is to create a table of unique "sample" names and then associate to those a time-to-live | 15:45 |
| eglynn | fabiog: gnocchi allows the entities of the same name to have different archive policies for different resources | 15:46 |
| fabiog | eglynn: I am trying to understand if we could blindly accept measures without having to do too much work and batch wirte them and afterward process them to add the intelligence required | 15:46 |
| eglynn | fabiog: e.g. keep metrics for webserver instances for longer than dev instances | 15:46 |
| eglynn | fabiog: as mentioned above, blindly accepting measures for asynch processing would require some way of specifying the archive policy | 15:47 |
| openstackgerrit | litong01 proposed openstack/ceilometer-specs: http dispatcher spec https://review.openstack.org/109367 | 15:47 |
| eglynn | fabiog: we would need for example some notion of the default archive policy for a particular named entity | 15:47 |
| fabiog | eglynn: let continue after the presentation I am falling behind :-) | 15:48 |
| eglynn | jd__: so probably not a pressing need for a mongodb indexer driver, as the volume of data would be relatively small and RDB-friendly | 15:48 |
| eglynn | fabiog: fair enough | 15:48 |
| * jd__ nods | 15:48 | |
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| eglynn | silence again? | 15:49 |
| nadya_ | eglynn: one question from me here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98798/65/gnocchi/ceilometer/resources/instance.py . It's about metadata in general actually | 15:49 |
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| eglynn | nadya_: "If we want to have a link to Heat stack (or Sahara cluster, or Trove cluster) we will manually add corresponding params here? Or the solution is still is being discussed?" | 15:50 |
| nadya_ | eglynn: everything is ok for me, stream is alive | 15:50 |
| eglynn | nadya_: the core idea is to avoid just blindly storing the free-form metadata from all these resource types | 15:51 |
| eglynn | nadya_: instead resource-specific attributes that we need to store are *strongly* typed on the resource representation in the indexer | 15:52 |
| eglynn | nadya_: ... we don't need to store resource-specific attributes, then there is a catch-all "generic" resource | 15:52 |
| eglynn | jd__: yeah, mean | 15:54 |
| nadya_ | eglynn: yes, I understand an idea, but filtering by heat_stack looks very essential request | 15:55 |
| nadya_ | eglynn: maybe it should be some mechanism to "add" metadata user is interested in? | 15:55 |
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| fabiog | jd__: so Carbonara is not required for storage systems that are already TS (e.g. Influx)? | 15:56 |
| eglynn | nadya_: yes, similar to the server_group added as a attribute of the instance resource (to represent the heat autoscaling group) | 15:56 |
| eglynn | fabiog: no | 15:56 |
| eglynn | fabiog: only for the swift and file based storage drivers | 15:56 |
| fabiog | eglynn: makes sense | 15:56 |
| eglynn | fabiog: (that's what I meant by the layer-violation comment earlier, carbonara shouldn't be exposed to the REST layer) | 15:57 |
| openstackgerrit | Pradeep Kilambi proposed openstack/ceilometer: Support to capture network services create notifications https://review.openstack.org/121686 | 15:58 |
| jd__ | fabiog: right | 15:59 |
| jd__ | questions? | 15:59 |
| jd__ | (sorry I didn't read the whole backlog, thanks eglynn for taking care :) | 15:59 |
| cdent | Seems nicely structured. +1 | 16:00 |
| eglynn | jd__: good to mention the tests run against mysql and postgresql? | 16:00 |
| eglynn | (integration test stylee) | 16:00 |
| fabiog | what db you support for the indexer | 16:00 |
| openstackgerrit | Igor Degtiarov proposed openstack/ceilometer: Clean unused tables from mongodb and db2 https://review.openstack.org/132561 | 16:00 |
| jd__ | fabiog: you can look at the documentation at http://gnocchi.rtfd.org/ to learn more from the API I guess | 16:00 |
| shardy | eglynn: Hi! | 16:00 |
| eglynn | jd__: I missed the last part of the hangout so you may have said already ... good to mention the tests are run against mysql and postgresql? (integration test stylee) | 16:00 |
| shardy | eglynn: when you get a moment, can we chat about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132198/? | 16:00 |
| jd__ | yeah I talked about the scenario usage in the test | 16:01 |
| eglynn | shardy: hey, sure we're just finishing up a g+ hangout | 16:01 |
| shardy | asalkeld is querying if we can solve it in ceilometer instead of Heat, I'm not sure atm | 16:01 |
| jd__ | we gate against mysql and postgresql | 16:01 |
| nadya_ | jd__: maybe it should be some mechanism to "add" metadata user is interested in? F.e. for filtering by heat stack or sahara cluster | 16:01 |
| shardy | eglynn: Ok, np, ping me whenever's convenient, thanks! :) | 16:01 |
| eglynn | shardy: cool, will do | 16:01 |
| jd__ | nadya_: it's very hard to filter on unstructured data so we want to avoid that | 16:01 |
| amalagon | jd__: what are the next steps for gnocchi? or is it pretty complete now? | 16:02 |
| jd__ | nadya_: we already added server_group for Heat for example | 16:02 |
| eglynn | nadya_: currently we require that the resource-specific attribute is explicitly modelled in the resource representation | 16:02 |
| * nadya_ thanks jd__ and eglynn! | 16:03 | |
| jd__ | amalagon: policy, more drivers, and tracking changes in resources from the top of my head :) | 16:03 |
| amalagon | thx! | 16:04 |
| jd__ | moar questions? | 16:04 |
| cdent | can it serve coffee? | 16:04 |
| jd__ | no | 16:04 |
| cdent | bummer | 16:04 |
| jd__ | NOT YET | 16:04 |
| amalagon | the factorizing of carbonara is pretty new; did the performance go up a lot after doing that? | 16:05 |
| eglynn | jd__: what's your thinking on cross-entity batching of post_measures? | 16:05 |
| cdent | PATCHES ACCEPTED | 16:05 |
| jd__ | amalagon: not on the factorizing itself, but it's now multithreaded so it should be faster | 16:05 |
| nadya_ | alarms? are we gonna support this? | 16:05 |
| eglynn | (i.e. allowing datapoints for multiple entities to be submitted in a single call) | 16:05 |
| nadya_ | sorry if it's already discussed somewhere.... | 16:05 |
| openstackgerrit | ZhiQiang Fan proposed openstack/ceilometer: Add timeout to all http requests https://review.openstack.org/132974 | 16:05 |
| jd__ | nadya_: yes, we need to adapt ceilometer-alarm to use that new schema | 16:06 |
| eglynn | nadya_: yes, the alarming feature will have to be migrated to the v3 API (based on gnocchi) | 16:06 |
| nadya_ | cool | 16:06 |
| eglynn | nadya_: (that was the motivation for adding the instance resource server_group attribute) | 16:06 |
| fabiog | thanks jd__ | 16:07 |
| amalagon | jd__: how did you feel about the selectable granularity parameter? | 16:07 |
| eglynn | nadya_: (i.e. for Heat autoscaling alarms) | 16:07 |
| jd__ | amalagon: I need to work on that too yeah | 16:07 |
| eglynn | jd__: I've got an ancient patch for that that I could ressurect | 16:07 |
| nadya_ | eglynn: will take a look on this more carefully | 16:07 |
| eglynn | (i.e. selectable granularity in the API layer) | 16:07 |
| jd__ | eglynn: go ahead, I've not even started :) | 16:08 |
| eglynn | cool | 16:08 |
| eglynn | thanks for presenting the hangout jd__! | 16:08 |
| jd__ | you're welcome | 16:09 |
| amalagon | thanks jd__! | 16:11 |
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| ildikov | jd__: tnx! | 16:11 |
| nadya_ | jd__: Thanks! | 16:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: storage: merge coordination and carbonara https://review.openstack.org/134999 | 16:18 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: Fix and test the NullStorage driver https://review.openstack.org/135000 | 16:18 |
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| eglynn | cdent: re. your earlier comments on splitting out plugins, moving to out-of-tree | 16:21 |
| eglynn | cdent: yes, we can have multiple repos | 16:21 |
| eglynn | cdent: but those repos would need also to have an upstream | 16:21 |
| eglynn | cdent: i.e. a sustainable community of code review, maintainership, release mgmt etc. | 16:21 |
| eglynn | cdent: so they either come under our ubrella, or some ither umbrella that we can rely on | 16:22 |
| eglynn | some *other | 16:23 |
| openstackgerrit | Srinivas Sakhamuri proposed openstack/ceilometer: Internal error with period overflow https://review.openstack.org/134415 | 16:23 |
| eglynn | so we do not want to create orphened repos, IMO | 16:23 |
| cdent | why to this: "but those repos would need also to have an upstream" | 16:24 |
| cdent | Basically I'm advocating that ceilometer should provide the framework for a set of activities | 16:24 |
| cdent | and then the people who want specific activities should own the implementaiton | 16:24 |
| openstackgerrit | Srinivas Sakhamuri proposed openstack/ceilometer: Internal error with period overflow https://review.openstack.org/134415 | 16:24 |
| cdent | (e.g. storage in hbase, or cassandra) | 16:24 |
| cdent | (or dispatch via some mechanism) | 16:24 |
| cdent | My original statement was trying to discern the source of the notion that there needs to be an umbrella. Why the centralization? | 16:25 |
| cdent | an orphaned repo is a repo containing code that people don't care about | 16:25 |
| eglynn | cdent: "people who want specific activities should own the implementaiton" ... do you mean the operators that want to say deploy on hbase should the implementation? | 16:25 |
| cdent | which is fine, that means it doesn't matter | 16:25 |
| cdent | and when code doesn't matter we cetainly dont' want it in a core | 16:25 |
| cdent | sure | 16:26 |
| cdent | scope is too wide | 16:26 |
| eglynn | so, as I said before, there are candidates for moving out-of-tree | 16:26 |
| eglynn | specifically things that difficult impossible to CI upstream | 16:26 |
| eglynn | vsphere inspector / IPMI node manager stuff springs to mind | 16:27 |
| cdent | Yeah, so I'll say again: "My original statement was trying to discern the source of the notion that there needs to be an umbrella. Why the centralization?" | 16:27 |
| cdent | I'm not concerned, at this time, with the actual details of reality, I'm interested in how the current reality came about (and ultimately, from that, know how to change it) | 16:27 |
| fabiog | cdent: we could take a olso approach: like ceilometer-vsphere ... ceilometer-ipmi and so on | 16:28 |
| eglynn | cdent: note that I said "they either come under our umbrella, or some *other* umbrella that we can rely on" | 16:28 |
| cdent | All "these big tent" conversations are the result of an entirely broken model of open source, probably the results of corporate lawyers with too much time on their hand, and not enough anarchists or something | 16:28 |
| fabiog | cdent: one repo for these non-core projects | 16:28 |
| eglynn | (with spelling corrections this time) | 16:28 |
| cdent | fabiog: why? | 16:28 |
| fabiog | cdent: because you want to give the ability of people interested in that topic to contribute and or monitor the status | 16:29 |
| fabiog | s/of/to | 16:29 |
| cdent | people contribute to small open source projects all over the internet just by using the internet | 16:29 |
| cdent | they don't need branding | 16:29 |
| fabiog | but customers do | 16:30 |
| cdent | I disagree, customers need distros | 16:30 |
| eglynn | cdent: so consumers of openstack artifacts naturally want to be assured that the maintainership of those artifacts is sustainable | 16:30 |
| cdent | and the job of a distro is to aggregate | 16:30 |
| cdent | and provide assurance | 16:30 |
| fabiog | cdent: a customer wants to know that the stuff is getting is backed by a community and organization | 16:31 |
| cdent | that is: if the distro wishes to make money they patronize maintainership | 16:31 |
| fabiog | cdent: if you add things that are only specific to you they may perceive vendor lock in | 16:31 |
| cdent | fabiog I'm not really sure that's true, they want stuff that works | 16:31 |
| eglynn | cdent: distro and operators already "patronize" most of the community | 16:31 |
| cdent | eglynn: yes, of course, what I'm saying is that patronage could have more diverse granularity | 16:32 |
| fabiog | cdent: agreed, but if to make it work is 60% proprietary they will be reluctant | 16:32 |
| cdent | rather than in this giant thing called openstack | 16:32 |
| cdent | All I was trying to discern here is if there is a cultural bias in place of some sort. | 16:33 |
| cdent | And this conversation is making it pretty clear that there is. | 16:33 |
| cdent | Which is not a problem, it is just good information to have. | 16:33 |
| cdent | the coarse and potentially offensive way of summarizing my observation is "Dear god, openstack is _really_ enterprisey" | 16:35 |
| cdent | sorry "enterprisey™" | 16:35 |
| eglynn | "cultural bias" and "enterprise-y" is pretty loaded TBH | 16:35 |
| cdent | enterprisey, yes | 16:35 |
| cdent | but cultural bias , how? | 16:36 |
| cdent | it just says "there is a culture here" and "there is a culture over there" | 16:36 |
| cdent | that's true everywhere people gather | 16:36 |
| cdent | and each culture will have perspective | 16:36 |
| eglynn | clear negative connotation, no? | 16:36 |
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| cdent | Perhaps, but it is unavoidable: Everywhere people gather people will have a perspective on their surroundings which is different from other people, no? | 16:38 |
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| eglynn | it's clear that the incentives/motivations driving the openstack community are different to many other opensource communities | 16:38 |
| fabiog | eglynn: I would send you a follow-up e-mail for the discussion around measure storing in batches | 16:39 |
| eglynn | a higher proporition of contributors are "patronized" by the big distributors and operators | 16:39 |
| fabiog | eglynn: what is the best e-mail address | 16:39 |
| eglynn | fabiog: thank you sir! | 16:39 |
| eglynn | fabiog: eglynn@redhat.com | 16:39 |
| fabiog | eglynn: thaks | 16:39 |
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| eglynn | so you can read the result as "bias", or simply as the result of the incentives/drivers in operation | 16:40 |
| cdent | we seem to have strayed quite far from my original query, which is great in some ways, but to take it back: | 16:40 |
| cdent | There appears to be a cultural bias _against_ small pieces loosely joined. | 16:41 |
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| cdent | I don't reckon there can be any operational difference betwen "bias" and "results of incentives/drivers". Surely that's the same thing? In society my biases are developed out of the incentives/drivers I experience. | 16:42 |
| eglynn | IMO "bias" carries a connotation of prejudice and/or unfairness | 16:44 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: Import policy from oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/134956 | 16:44 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: rest: implement policy checks for post measures https://review.openstack.org/134957 | 16:44 |
| openstackgerrit | Julien Danjou proposed stackforge/gnocchi: Update oslo-incubator https://review.openstack.org/134955 | 16:44 |
| cdent | Ah, that's interesting. | 16:44 |
| eglynn | the OED tends to agree | 16:44 |
| cdent | I think of it more in terms of "biased in favor of, biased against" | 16:45 |
| cdent | So the quote is "there was evidence of bias against black applicants" | 16:46 |
| cdent | so I'm saying "there is evidence of bias against small pieces loosely joined" | 16:46 |
| cdent | from my perspective (as someone who llikes small pieces) I'd say yeah, it's prejudicial | 16:47 |
| cdent | but that'd be my opinion | 16:47 |
| cdent | It's very hard for me to tell if you're engaging on this from some kind of intellectual interest or because you have some other goal in mind. | 16:47 |
| eglynn | cdent: huh? | 16:49 |
| cdent | well, are you hoping to change my perception, or we just chattin'? | 16:49 |
| eglynn | neither | 16:50 |
| cdent | what is it then? | 16:50 |
| eglynn | I was just explaining my view of the reality of the situation in openstack | 16:50 |
| cdent | bah to reality! | 16:50 |
| cdent | reality is the lamest constraint ever, especially in the software world! | 16:51 |
| cdent | totally fungible | 16:51 |
| eglynn | fungible ... in the sense of being replaceable by another identical thing? | 16:54 |
| cdent | here on earth, eglynn, can you take a gander at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134840/ (redis in packstack) and help me figure out what I've done wrong? | 16:54 |
| cdent | (in legal doctrine fungible is not so exact) | 16:55 |
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| eglynn | cdent: I'll take a look after 1:1 | 17:00 |
| cdent | ✔ | 17:00 |
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| eglynn | cdent: ^^^ I suspect the failing RH CI on that patch requires puppet-redis to be past of the openstack-puppet-module package in advance | 17:07 |
| cdent | I'm not worried about that yet: it fails in local testing with the redis branch in use, following packstack devel instructions | 17:08 |
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| eglynn | sileht: can you look at https://review.openstack.org/132092 (tooz patch I'd like to get before tooz 0.9.0 is cut) | 17:21 |
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| sileht | eglynn, looks good | 18:07 |
| eglynn | sileht: thank you sir! | 18:08 |
| cdent | EmilienM: are you packstack and openstack puppet modules savvy? | 18:09 |
| gordc | cdent: i think he might be on a plane right now... that or he might already have landed and is shocked by the snow. | 18:11 |
| cdent | i'm flying early wednesday morning, to snow | 18:11 |
| cdent | I miss snow. | 18:11 |
| gordc | i live in an apartment so i'm fine with snow... if i was at my parents house, then my opinion changes. | 18:12 |
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| openstackgerrit | litong01 proposed openstack/ceilometer: add http dispatcher https://review.openstack.org/109853 | 18:29 |
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| harlowja | eglynn http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/050811.html if u want to add anything special :) | 21:16 |
| * eglynn looks | 21:16 | |
| eglynn | harlowja: cool, thanks for raising this | 21:19 |
| harlowja | eglynn np :) | 21:20 |
| harlowja | gotta start somewhere :) | 21:20 |
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| cdent | harlowja, eglynn that thread reminds me: is there a plan pending for sentinel support in tooz? | 21:36 |
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| harlowja | when i can get a CI testable sentinel :) | 22:10 |
| * harlowja doesn't trust manual stuff so much | 22:10 | |
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