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| agentle | Anyone have a minute to explain the relationship between ISO 8601 and RFC 822 or 2822? | 15:48 |
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| elmiko | agentle: sorry, i'm not familiar enough with those docs :/ | 15:50 |
| agentle | elmiko: s'ok, I'm learning some things by googling :) Seems like our API docs should always say ISO 8601 | 15:51 |
| elmiko | agentle: ah, interesting | 15:51 |
| agentle | elmiko: unfortunately, I found some Rackspace docs that have RFC 822. Which is nearly identical. Hence, confusion! | 15:52 |
| agentle | :) | 15:52 |
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| elmiko | agentle: i take it the ISO doc is authoratative over the RFCs? | 15:52 |
| elmiko | isn't that always the way ;) | 15:52 |
| agentle | elmiko: I think so, RFC is Request for Comments, but this particular one is from 1982 or so :) | 15:53 |
| elmiko | oh wow... so yea | 15:53 |
| agentle | I just didn't know the exact relationship between RFC and ISO | 15:53 |
| agentle | other than ISO is a "standard" | 15:53 |
| agentle | and RFC is a draft doc? | 15:53 |
| agentle | prior to the standard? | 15:53 |
| elmiko | yea, i'm not sure about the relationship in general. but based on the names, i would think rfc comes before iso standard. | 15:54 |
| agentle | Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 it seems like an RFC is a "profile?" | 15:54 |
| cdent | agentle: are you talking about the way in which rfc 822 has "something" to say about timestamps, but 8601 is the official word? | 15:55 |
| elmiko | huh | 15:55 |
| agentle | cdent: pretty much. | 15:55 |
| cdent | the general rule is that ISO wins over RFC, but often there is no ISO (for example for HTTP) | 15:56 |
| agentle | cdent: so in the API reference documents, for example, always refer to ISO 8601 I think. But I've now found documents that refer to RFC 822. Which seems to be an Email format. | 15:56 |
| agentle | cdent: none for HTTP!!? | 15:56 |
| agentle | yowch! | 15:56 |
| cdent | HTTP is "standardized" by RFC | 15:56 |
| cdent | which is, generally speaking, the norm for standards | 15:57 |
| cdent | only rather special things (like time) get ISO, or things that are especially important for business interaction (also like time) | 15:57 |
| cdent | HTTP is still in the land of outlaws, where the RFCs roam | 15:57 |
| agentle | ha ha ha cdent that's a perfect explanation | 15:57 |
| elmiko | lol | 15:57 |
| cdent | which is not so much "yowch!" as "dat's cool man" | 15:57 |
| elmiko | yarr mateys, i be draftin' an rfc! | 15:58 |
| cdent | It all makes such a lot of sense, doesn't it? | 15:58 |
| cdent | If you're one of the cool kids as soon as something goes off to be ISO standardized then it is pretty much not worth paying attention to anymore | 15:58 |
| elmiko | lol | 15:58 |
| cdent | The reason RFC 822 keeps coming up all over the place is because it formalized a format for handling email and set the standard for headers being separated from body by two blank lines, and for header information to take the form of | 15:59 |
| cdent | Some-Header: some value | 15:59 |
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| cdent | since then loads of other RFCs (including early HTTP RFCs) followed the precedents set in 822 (including on topics like time) | 16:01 |
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| elmiko | cdent: nice engineering history lesson =) | 16:05 |
| cdent | I HOPE IT'S RIGHT | 16:06 |
| cdent | ;) | 16:06 |
| elmiko | lol | 16:06 |
| elmiko | ME TOO! | 16:06 |
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| etoews | elmiko: i added the current crop of frozen guidelines to the agenda of the cross-project meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting#Proposed_agenda | 16:34 |
| etoews | i'll be around for the meeting but i put both of our irc nicks in there for a bit of redundancy | 16:34 |
| elmiko | etoews: ack, i'll try to make more of those meetings just in case ;) | 16:34 |
| etoews | sure. but i think ping us if necessary is okay too. | 16:35 |
| etoews | i'm interested in the Return request-id to caller topic so i'll be listening in mostly for that. | 16:35 |
| elmiko | ok, cool | 16:36 |
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| elmiko | etoews: so, what was with the request-id discussion? | 22:01 |
| etoews | do you mean the beating tpatil took? | 22:03 |
| etoews | elmiko ^ | 22:03 |
| elmiko | i just meant more in general | 22:04 |
| elmiko | i need to read the spec, but i wasn't quite following the gist. seemed like codes to help line up with error conditions experienced by end users? | 22:05 |
| etoews | in this case, not just error conditions | 22:05 |
| etoews | a lot of services return a "request id" to the caller in a header | 22:05 |
| elmiko | ah, ok | 22:05 |
| etoews | that request id can be used in all kinds of ways but ya, mostly when there's an error condition. | 22:06 |
| elmiko | sounds almost nightmarish to try and link those codes with specific actions, wouldn't there be a *ton* of them? (as evidenced by the boris mq question) | 22:08 |
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| etoews | these request ids aren't codes (although that's in the works too) | 22:11 |
| etoews | you can just think of these as a uuid for request/response you get from a cloud | 22:11 |
| etoews | it's baffling to me that there's so much resistance to this | 22:12 |
| elmiko | ok, so a little lower volume than an id for each rest transaction? | 22:13 |
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| elmiko | yea, certainly seems useful | 22:13 |
| stevelle | the problem really is a difference in how folks are thinking about it | 22:15 |
| elmiko | how so? | 22:16 |
| stevelle | Is a request-id for a rest call for one service or all the rest calls performed across all services to perform an action? | 22:18 |
| stevelle | how much does it need to be broken down seems to be a source of differing opinions | 22:19 |
| elmiko | that makes sense | 22:19 |
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| stevelle | I suspect there is more service/project sovereignty issues going on as well | 22:20 |
| stevelle | that isn't clear for me still | 22:21 |
| elmiko | interesting | 22:21 |
| elmiko | oh well, i'm off for awhile. take care all! | 22:21 |
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