| openstackgerrit | Alex Xu proposed openstack/api-wg: Add guideline for microverion bumping https://review.openstack.org/187896 | 02:57 |
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| openstackgerrit | Alex Xu proposed openstack/api-wg: Add guideline for microversion specification https://review.openstack.org/187112 | 02:57 |
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| alex_xu | hi guys, Could this patch https://review.openstack.org/181784 enter freeze period? | 13:00 |
| elmiko | alex_xu: is there going to be another patchset, or is final for now? | 13:08 |
| alex_xu | elmiko: it only need some update for commit message. But the reviewer didn't -1 for it. I'm afraid all the +1 and +2 will be clean. Then waiting for more time | 13:10 |
| alex_xu | elmiko: but if we think it's worth to fix, I'm happy with another patchset | 13:10 |
| elmiko | alex_xu: no, that's fine. i just didn't understand the last message. | 13:10 |
| alex_xu | elmiko: sorry for my poor english :( | 13:11 |
| elmiko | alex_xu: i'll make a post about it later today | 13:11 |
| alex_xu | elmiko: thanks a lot :) | 13:11 |
| elmiko | alex_xu: no worries, it's early in the morning for me ;) | 13:11 |
| alex_xu | elmiko: hah, have a good day :) | 13:12 |
| elmiko | thanks, you too! | 13:12 |
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| cdent | 501 the debate that will not die | 13:57 |
| ryansb | the bikeshed must be tie-dyed | 13:58 |
| elmiko | lol | 14:02 |
| elmiko | funny, i was just responding to the 5xx guidance one | 14:02 |
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| sdague | next up is my rebase of all those patches | 14:04 |
| sdague | cdent: is there a new bit on it? | 14:04 |
| sdague | honestly, I was so heads down getting the nova api long form article out, I didn't circle back to it on friday | 14:04 |
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| cdent | sdague: nothing new, just continued feedback from people who want to use 501 for "functionality not available in this instance of this api" | 14:14 |
| cdent | elmiko: it was your latest response to someone that set me looking and then posting that little quip | 14:15 |
| elmiko | cdent: i kinda figured it was something along those lines ;) | 14:16 |
| sdague | is stanek in here? | 14:16 |
| elmiko | looks like not | 14:16 |
| cdent | brb | 14:16 |
| sdague | because I continue to not understand how one can reconcile "501 means POST isn't supported by this server on any resource" with "it could mean something narrower" | 14:21 |
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| cdent | oh dear. I just failed to boil water when making coffee. I might need to take an extended break to locate my brain. | 14:26 |
| elmiko | ouch... | 14:27 |
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| cdent | I ground the coffee, wet the little aeropress filter thing, assembled the pieces, set it up on my cup, poured in the coffee, poured in the water | 14:29 |
| cdent | oops | 14:29 |
| elmiko | cold water? | 14:29 |
| cdent | yeah | 14:30 |
| elmiko | bummer =( | 14:30 |
| cdent | I hear cold brew is pretty good, but I didn't have time for that. | 14:30 |
| elmiko | lol | 14:30 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed openstack/api-wg: http guideline expansion: background https://review.openstack.org/181931 | 14:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed openstack/api-wg: add subsection around caching behavior and http https://review.openstack.org/183523 | 14:33 |
| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed openstack/api-wg: add section describing 501 common mistake https://review.openstack.org/183456 | 14:33 |
| sdague | ok, rebased | 14:33 |
| sdague | with more language in there to hopefully get ahead of the debate. | 14:33 |
| sdague | I also restacked so the 501 is on top | 14:33 |
| sdague | the other two I think were pretty agreed on | 14:34 |
| sdague | someone with +2 on the repo able to hit the rebase button for - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185288/ ? | 14:34 |
| elmiko | i'll give it a whirl | 14:35 |
| openstackgerrit | Michael McCune proposed openstack/api-wg: Added note about caching of responses when using https https://review.openstack.org/185288 | 14:35 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: fyi, rebased https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185288/ | 14:36 |
| sdague | looks like it was detected as trivial rebase, so all votes were kept | 14:36 |
| cdent | sdague++ | 14:37 |
| elmiko | thankfully =) | 14:37 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sean Dague proposed openstack/api-wg: add section describing 501 common mistake https://review.openstack.org/183456 | 14:54 |
| sdague | I just realized I forgot to finish my last paragraph | 14:54 |
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| sdague | ok, I also just linked the o'reilly book explanation of 501, which maybe further clarifies | 15:57 |
| sdague | https://books.google.com/books?id=XUaErakHsoAC&lpg=PA387&ots=5kejGntNtw&dq=restful%20web%20services%20501&pg=PA387#v=onepage&q=restful%20web%20services%20501&f=false | 15:57 |
| elmiko | nice that they have that book up for free now | 15:59 |
| cdent | That should help | 15:59 |
| elmiko | let's hope so | 15:59 |
| cdent | I reckon the mindset thing is pretty important for the future though, or we'll just keep having the same detail oriented discussion for each guideline | 15:59 |
| cdent | rather than being having the experience or information to just "get it" | 16:00 |
| elmiko | agreed | 16:01 |
| cdent | sigh, cedric's response to me | 16:01 |
| sdague | elmiko: well, it's not exactly up for free, but google book search is "fair use" | 16:01 |
| sdague | so good enough to footnote | 16:01 |
| elmiko | ah, ok. thanks for the clarification | 16:01 |
| * cdent is not sure where to go now | 16:01 | |
| elmiko | cdent: yea, i'm not understanding why this is such a sticky point | 16:02 |
| cdent | If I were the me from about 10 years ago things would not be fun from here on out, but I'm not that guy anymore, so .... | 16:04 |
| * cdent shrugs | 16:04 | |
| elmiko | lol! | 16:04 |
| cdent | in this particular instance there is confusion over to what an "api contract" applies | 16:05 |
| cdent | but I'm not sure I can be assed to fight about it | 16:05 |
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| elmiko | yea, i mean, i think i get what cedric is trying to say but i still agree with sdague's assessment. not sure where that leaves me, aside from +1 on the review | 16:06 |
| cdent | hmm. | 16:07 |
| cdent | cedric is wrong | 16:07 |
| cdent | But you know, it's the 21st century and declaring someone is wrong just isn't allowed :) | 16:08 |
| elmiko | ha! | 16:08 |
| elmiko | i'm just acknowledging my lack of depth on this particular point. from my reading, his position still doesn't make sense with regards to the evidence. | 16:09 |
| cdent | I do, however, love the name Cedric | 16:09 |
| cdent | It is one of several nicknames that got used on me in a chris-rich-environment | 16:10 |
| sdague | yeh, it's one of the problems of mapping a new use of http onto it post-hoc, hence why I proposed the new http overview introduction to make it clear that it's not going to be an exact mapping, and we need to best effort fit based on being least wrong | 16:10 |
| elmiko | sdague: fwiw, it makes sense to me | 16:11 |
| sdague | actually, the whole status code section at the back of the o'reilly book is pretty useful, I hadn't picked it up in a while. | 16:12 |
| elmiko | i've been using it my go-to reference | 16:12 |
| sdague | also, as a pretty interesting data point, the recommended fall back error in rails in it's rest framework is 400, not 500. That's in a "I give up and don't know what to do" case | 16:13 |
| elmiko | interesting | 16:14 |
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| cdent | usings rails as a guideline for _anything_ is dangerous territory :) | 16:14 |
| elmiko | yea, was gonna say it might not go over well lol | 16:14 |
| elmiko | but interesting none-the-less | 16:14 |
| cdent | yes | 16:14 |
| sdague | cdent: well, they did get a bunch of this out there before other folks. first to implement wins some times. :) | 16:15 |
| cdent | bollocks | 16:15 |
| cdent | (to the before other folks) | 16:15 |
| cdent | but then I guess I tend to define "out there" on a different scale | 16:16 |
| sdague | yeh, well it was pretty wide spread. And like you said, a lot of this is not just what's on paper by the norms by the implementations that actually exist | 16:24 |
| elmiko | sdague: no content arguments from me, but i did find a few grammar nits | 16:26 |
| sdague | elmiko: ok, cool, there is enough new text in there I assumed there would be some of those | 16:27 |
| miguelgrinberg | elmiko: thx for the rebase | 16:31 |
| elmiko | miguelgrinberg: np, it was sdague's idea. i just wanted to make sure you knew =) | 16:32 |
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| cdent | sigmavirus24: thanks for responding to cedric, I was out of juice | 16:59 |
| sigmavirus24 | cdent: I'm always up for a good slap fight when referencing RFC sections | 17:00 |
| cdent | ha! :) | 17:00 |
| elmiko | lol | 17:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | I hate that people keep referencing 2616 too | 17:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | So that adds fuel | 17:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | 2616 is dead | 17:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | Long live the 6 new RFCs | 17:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | + the one for 308 | 17:00 |
| sigmavirus24 | whatever that one is | 17:00 |
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| HenryG | Can someone from the API WG take a look at the API proposed here: https://review.openstack.org/180803 | 21:37 |
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| elmiko | HenryG: ack, i'll take a look | 21:41 |
| HenryG | thanks elmiko | 21:43 |
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| elmiko | HenryG: i thought neutron was going to be using microversions? (or is that still under debate) | 21:53 |
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