| stevebaker | ha, they do user-agent detection, thats not going to work ;) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| stevebaker | arosen1: so try a user_data script which runs curl -sL https://get.docker.io/ | sh | 00:01 |
| stevebaker | user_data: | | 00:01 |
| stevebaker | #!/bin/s | 00:01 |
| stevebaker | h | 00:01 |
| stevebaker | curl -sL https://get.docker.io/ | sh | 00:01 |
| arosen1 | i can type that in the template file? | 00:02 |
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| stevebaker | arosen1: yes, like this http://paste.openstack.org/show/74703/ | 00:04 |
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| arosen1 | stevebaker: seems like cloud-init isn't running it. I can curl 169.254.169.254/latest/user-data and see the script we uploaded though | 00:08 |
| stevebaker | arosen1: what is your image? | 00:09 |
| arosen1 | stevebaker: http://cloud.fedoraproject.org/fedora-20.x86_64.qcow2 | 00:09 |
| stevebaker | arosen1: that is odd | 00:10 |
| arosen1 | stevebaker: actually it looks like my instance isn't able to go to the internet. Though I figured id see some failures in the cloud-init log of it trying to do this? | 00:11 |
| stevebaker | there's your problem | 00:11 |
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| stevebaker | arosen1: also, if you read https://get.docker.io it only works on Ubuntu, Debian and Gentoo | 00:13 |
| sdake_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BKorP55Aqvg | 00:13 |
| sdake_ | enjoy ;) | 00:13 |
| arosen1 | stevebaker i'll work on fixing up the networking. So after that works I'm curious what this section actually does: http://codepad.org/RlCSb0Lq | 00:15 |
| harlowja | zaneb when did u change your name to 'not steve', lol | 00:15 |
| arosen1 | it launches the cirros image locally there? I guess using KVM in docker? | 00:15 |
| zaneb | last week, by deed poll | 00:15 |
| * arosen1 err not using kvm but i guess it gets the cirros image from the docker repo. | 00:16 | |
| harlowja | haha | 00:16 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: maybe google won't think you have a joke name if you call yourself not-steve | 00:19 |
| zaneb | ironically, that's probably true | 00:20 |
| arosen1 | this might be another dumb question but what's the different between properties and attributes? | 00:21 |
| zaneb | arosen1: properties = inputs to the resource, attributes = outputs from the resource | 00:22 |
| arosen1 | thanks, that's what i was thinking | 00:22 |
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| zaneb | ugh, already have telemarketers calling my work phone :/ | 00:24 |
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| stevebaker | arosen1: that snippet looks like it would create a container with this image https://index.docker.io/_/cirros/ | 00:24 |
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| arosen1 | stevebaker: thanks | 00:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add a default DeletionPolicy for Fn::ResourceFacade https://review.openstack.org/83893 | 01:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add a resource_facade intrinsic function to HOT https://review.openstack.org/83895 | 01:13 |
| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed a change to openstack/heat: Resolve data from Resource Facade https://review.openstack.org/83894 | 01:13 |
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| spzala | stevebaker: Hello! | 02:03 |
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| mspreitz | shardy: are you there? | 02:08 |
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| spzala | stevebaker: no rush but when you get chance if you can look at my reply for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80148/5 that will help :) Thanks! | 02:32 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat-templates: Software config hook to provision using shell scripts https://review.openstack.org/70297 | 03:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat-templates: Software config hook to provision using puppet https://review.openstack.org/70639 | 03:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat-templates: Software config hook to provision using cfn-init https://review.openstack.org/79759 | 03:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Steve Baker proposed a change to openstack/heat-templates: os-refresh-config script to invoke config hooks https://review.openstack.org/79758 | 03:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Mike Spreitzer proposed a change to openstack/heat: Expounded on global environments. https://review.openstack.org/84331 | 03:36 |
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| skraynev | Morning all | 05:09 |
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| Michalik | Morning (or evening here in SFO)! | 05:19 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jenkins proposed a change to openstack/heat: Imported Translations from Transifex https://review.openstack.org/83957 | 06:10 |
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| cmyster | moening | 06:56 |
| cmyster | morning even | 06:56 |
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| chmouel | hello | 07:01 |
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| cmyster | hi | 07:02 |
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| therve | Good morning! | 07:14 |
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| openstackgerrit | Chmouel Boudjnah proposed a change to openstack/heat: Skip tests when loading plugins https://review.openstack.org/84117 | 07:16 |
| cmyster | morning therve | 07:16 |
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| shardy | morning all | 07:18 |
| cmyster | morning | 07:18 |
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| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Fix Jenkins translation jobs https://review.openstack.org/83960 | 07:40 |
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| pas-ha | morning all :) | 07:53 |
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| cmyster | shardy: a moment ? | 08:22 |
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| shardy | cmyster: sure! | 08:23 |
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| shardy | therve: Hi, you had comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83758/ | 09:17 |
| shardy | would you like to re-review before we approve it? | 09:17 |
| shardy | lgtm and I'd like it to be considered for an rc2 | 09:18 |
| therve | Looking | 09:18 |
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| therve | shardy, Approved! | 09:20 |
| shardy | therve: thanks! | 09:20 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Add a default DeletionPolicy for Fn::ResourceFacade https://review.openstack.org/83893 | 09:20 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Resolve data from Resource Facade https://review.openstack.org/83894 | 09:20 |
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| neetap | hi all | 09:27 |
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| neetap | hi | 09:44 |
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| neetap | anyone there? | 09:55 |
| shardy | neetap: yes, what is your question? | 09:56 |
| neetap | i am facing problem while luanching Autoscaling template using F20 image of 32 bit..... | 09:58 |
| neetap | My stack is getting failed | 09:59 |
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| neetap | it is not able to create elastic load balancer resource | 09:59 |
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| shardy | neetap: what does stack_status_reason say in heat stack-show <stack name> | 10:01 |
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| neetap | shardy:ElasticLoadBalancer create Failed,Create aborted | 10:08 |
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| neetap | I checked in SYSLOG and getting this error | 10:13 |
| neetap | ERROR glance.api.middleware.cache [9a64ba56-79a7-47ef-9186-7f054002eaf5 0161156c54f7440f8018716a31b9f414 8ebb85fe56fb465984e5f2ecd52db8f9 - - -] Checksum header is missing. | 10:13 |
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| skraynev | therve: ping | 10:15 |
| therve | Hi | 10:15 |
| skraynev | hello | 10:15 |
| skraynev | do you remember my patch about using default values during update? | 10:16 |
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| skraynev | I have tried to use properties and it works, but I have gotten one problem | 10:16 |
| skraynev | with InstanceGroup | 10:17 |
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| skraynev | in unittests for it I have gotten error messages, because old properties attribute contains new LaunchConfigurationName | 10:19 |
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| skraynev | and when I try to compare self.properties and properties for new template I get empty list instead different LaunchConfiguration ID. | 10:20 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Raise and catch a specific error during validation https://review.openstack.org/71287 | 10:21 |
| skraynev | I suppose, that I may redirect this question to zaneb, but until I have not solution for this problem will be better don't use properties instead template snippet | 10:21 |
| skraynev | therve: what do you think about it? | 10:21 |
| therve | Not much :) | 10:22 |
| neetap | shardy: ping | 10:22 |
| therve | neetap, This error doesn't really look related. Can you create a simple instance with nova? With your F20 image? | 10:23 |
| therve | skraynev, Is it a problem with parameters or something? I don't understand what's wrong | 10:24 |
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| skraynev | therve: no, with properties | 10:24 |
| skraynev | properties attribute for InstanceGroup resource contain updated references on depended resource when we try to update | 10:26 |
| neetap | therve:I had tried with F20 image and was able to launch instance | 10:26 |
| therve | neetap, So you should have a better reason somewhere. Do you have access to heat logs? | 10:27 |
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| therve | skraynev, I meant properties which takes parameters as a value | 10:28 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Check top-level sections when parsing a template https://review.openstack.org/83758 | 10:28 |
| therve | skraynev, Can you give the patch? | 10:28 |
| skraynev | therve: oh no, in this case it's reference | 10:28 |
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| skraynev | therve: if I create a draft with my patch, it will be enough? | 10:30 |
| therve | skraynev, However you want | 10:31 |
| skraynev | therve: ok | 10:31 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix incorrect logic during updating in unittest https://review.openstack.org/83708 | 10:35 |
| skraynev | therve: done | 10:36 |
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| neetap | therve: ERROR heat.engine.resource [-] CREATE : LoadBalancer "ElasticLoadBalancer" [5f386f90-fdf7-4932-8fe9-7957683ac166] Stack "gora" [5eabc2a9-8346-49e2-91cd-483280cd3b1e]#0122014-04-01 15:09:10.958 26392 TRACE heat.engine.resource Traceback (most recent call last):#0122014-04-01 15:09:10.958 26392 TRACE heat.engine.resource File "/opt/stack/heat/heat/engine/resource.py", line 420, in _do_action#0122014-04-01 15:09:10.958 26392 TRAC | 10:39 |
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| therve | neetap, Everything after that :). Also please use paste.openstack.org | 10:40 |
| therve | skraynev, I think you need to still pass before/after? | 10:42 |
| therve | I'm not sure self.properties is correct | 10:42 |
| neetap | therve:http://paste.openstack.org/show/74732/ | 10:43 |
| therve | neetap, Okay, you must have an error in nova | 10:45 |
| * therve --> lunch | 10:45 | |
| skraynev | therve: ok, I agree that self.properties could be incorrect , but what kind of 'before' you mean? we have 'after' properties (it's properties at line 538), and 'before' is properties which store in resource. | 10:47 |
| skraynev | therve: in other side, I could create new properties using old template.. | 10:48 |
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| * skraynev go to do idea which was mentioned above | 10:48 | |
| neetap | therve:okay i will check with nova and will let you know... | 10:50 |
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| openstackgerrit | Pavlo Shchelokovskyy proposed a change to openstack/heat: Implement cancelling of stack update https://review.openstack.org/63779 | 11:04 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Using default value during update https://review.openstack.org/83709 | 11:43 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Providing default template version in unittests https://review.openstack.org/83380 | 11:49 |
| openstackgerrit | Jenkins proposed a change to openstack/heat: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/76689 | 11:49 |
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| therve | skraynev, Does your latest patch work? | 11:54 |
| therve | I've found some issues in the tests highlighted by your fix, fwiw | 11:54 |
| openstackgerrit | Jenkins proposed a change to openstack/python-heatclient: Updated from global requirements https://review.openstack.org/83487 | 11:56 |
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| therve | Ah just saw your other patch | 12:04 |
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| skraynev | therve: sorry, go for a tea ;) | 12:22 |
| skraynev | therve: it works for me | 12:22 |
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| therve | skraynev, Right I saw that you changed the implementation. So everything's good? | 12:23 |
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| skraynev | therve: Hm. unittests works. But everything ... If it works now and for my test template. it does not mean, that it's right. I still want to know zaneb's opinion about current approach | 12:27 |
| skraynev | therve: also I suppose, that other reviewers may give some feedback | 12:27 |
| therve | Sure | 12:28 |
| therve | I'm not sure what's your objection though. Did you prefer previous implementation? | 12:29 |
| sdake_ | its a safe bet - if the unit tests pass, the code is probably correct ;) | 12:29 |
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| skraynev | therve: I just want to say that undeniable fact - which was tested by the time - often better then new (in terms of reliability) | 12:32 |
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| skraynev | therve: but idea with properties looks simpler and clear for using. | 12:33 |
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| skraynev | sdake_: it depends on quantity and quality of unittests =) | 12:35 |
| sdake_ | skraynev agree, although typically every time I change anything it breaks 50+ test cases | 12:36 |
| sdake_ | so usuaully there is some level of interaction between changes and mutlipel tests;) | 12:36 |
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| sdake_ | hate going to bed at 8pm | 12:37 |
| skraynev | sdake_: Ou yeah. | 12:37 |
| sdake_ | so beat ass tired lastn ight | 12:37 |
| sdake_ | now up at 5am :( | 12:37 |
| sdake_ | freezing in my house | 12:37 |
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| skraynev | sdake_: is it so cold? | 12:38 |
| sdake_ | I got the heater cranked up to 80 | 12:38 |
| sdake_ | so it should get warm soon :) | 12:38 |
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| sdake_ | i live in the desert, where it is cold at night and hot during the day | 12:39 |
| sdake_ | so its difficult to keep a comfortable temperature in the house duringspring and fall | 12:39 |
| sdake_ | during the winter its easy - just turn on the heat | 12:39 |
| sdake_ | during the summer, - just crank the ac down to 68 | 12:39 |
| sdake_ | spring and fall need it cold at night so I don't sweat to death but as soon as I'm awake need it toasty warm | 12:40 |
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| skraynev | sdake_: amazing! I have not known that life in desert is battle with weather. | 12:43 |
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| sdake_ | I like arizona | 12:45 |
| sdake_ | we have some areas which are 4 seasons - for 5 years I lived in flagstaff which has snow | 12:45 |
| sdake_ | but when my wife started working we need to be near an airport | 12:45 |
| sdake_ | she is the fedora project leader | 12:45 |
| sdake_ | she is on the road alot | 12:46 |
| skraynev | do not miss the snow? | 12:46 |
| sdake_ | plus we needed access to babysitters | 12:46 |
| sdake_ | I love the snow | 12:46 |
| sdake_ | I wish I could live in flagstaff | 12:46 |
| sdake_ | much more peaceful | 12:46 |
| sdake_ | but it is not convienent with our two income lifesystle | 12:47 |
| sdake_ | plsu the education system there sucks | 12:47 |
| sdake_ | whereas where we are, the education system is very good | 12:47 |
| sdake_ | I think once the kids get out on their own | 12:47 |
| sdake_ | I am probably moving back to flagstaff | 12:47 |
| sdake_ | with or without my wife :) | 12:47 |
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| skraynev | sdake_: lol) | 12:47 |
| sdake_ | I have a condo there | 12:47 |
| skraynev | sdake_: sounds like the snow wins | 12:48 |
| sdake_ | the issue isn't snow its the travel + access to airport + access to babysitters | 12:48 |
| sdake_ | when I was theo nly person in our household working I didn't travel much | 12:48 |
| sdake_ | amybe 1 or twice a year | 12:49 |
| sdake_ | so a 2 hour drive to the airport wasn't terrible | 12:49 |
| sdake_ | robyn is gone 3-4 months of the year | 12:49 |
| sdake_ | but what I like about flagstaff is the peaceful hippy nature of the community | 12:49 |
| skraynev | ouu.. really often. | 12:49 |
| sdake_ | vs phoenix, where everyone is really tense | 12:49 |
| sdake_ | flagstaff is where I went to university - definately a sex drugs and rock and roll kind of place | 12:50 |
| sdake_ | say this patch there is contention over, want me to have a look? | 12:51 |
| skraynev | sdake_: you mean using default values? | 12:52 |
| sdake_ | whatever youw anted to have zaneb look at | 12:52 |
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| skraynev | sdake_: yes. it is. | 12:52 |
| skraynev | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83709/ | 12:52 |
| skraynev | it is ready for review, but I could rebase it according to Thomas comments for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83708/3 | 12:53 |
| sdake_ | skraynev just looking at the cfomment histroy, don't look too contentious just normal workflow stuff | 12:54 |
| sdake_ | reviewers point out p roblems, patch submitters fix problesm | 12:54 |
| sdake_ | looks like your in good shape :) | 12:54 |
| skraynev | sdake_: good news for me ;) | 12:54 |
| sdake_ | contentious is when soemone tries to change the hot_spec.rst :) | 12:55 |
| skraynev | sdake_: yeah.. I suppose it is close to holy war ;) | 12:57 |
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| skraynev | therve: about offer to add additional test when we delete non required property | 13:14 |
| skraynev | therve: could you look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/83709/3/heat/tests/test_resource.py | 13:15 |
| skraynev | line 383 | 13:15 |
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| skraynev | therve: I suppose, that you meant it | 13:15 |
| shardy | therve: is there any example of using the new custom constraints around? | 13:17 |
| shardy | I thought I saw one demonstrating FlavorConstraint but can't seem to find it atm | 13:18 |
| skraynev | therve: also part with set() was needed to find deleted props (according to your example) and new props (in updated template). however properties contain full list of properties according to property_schema and we may remove mentioned part of code. | 13:22 |
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| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Using default value during update https://review.openstack.org/83709 | 13:31 |
| openstackgerrit | Sergey Kraynev proposed a change to openstack/heat: Fix incorrect logic during updating in unittest https://review.openstack.org/83708 | 13:31 |
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| shadower | chmouel: so regarding https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84117/, what are your thoughts on moving forward? | 13:47 |
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| shadower | I was a bit surprised Heat has a hand-rolled plugin system | 13:47 |
| therve | skraynev, Ah yeah that's what I meant, perfect | 13:48 |
| chmouel | shadower: i think if we could just use stevesdore for that and plug it in heat.conf it would work much better | 13:48 |
| skraynev | therve: ok :) | 13:49 |
| shadower | chmouel: yeah that makes sense to me | 13:49 |
| chmouel | shadower: the plugins specifying the entry_point directly in their (or heat's) setup.cfg | 13:49 |
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| therve | shardy, There is some doc in hot_spec.rst | 13:49 |
| shadower | chmouel: do you know why we aren't using stevedore already? | 13:50 |
| shardy | therve: Thanks, talking at a meetup tonight and wanted to mention the new constraints functionality :) | 13:50 |
| * shadower looks for a blueprint | 13:50 | |
| chmouel | shadower: i think it didn't exist at that time | 13:50 |
| shadower | fair enough | 13:50 |
| shadower | chmouel: I couln't find any blueprints, you wanna add it? | 13:51 |
| shadower | I can do it if you're busy | 13:51 |
| chmouel | shadower: now why entry_points (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/774824/explain-python-entry-points) therve was mentioning to me yesterday due of heat.conf but afaik we could do that with stevesdore | 13:51 |
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| chmouel | shadower: yeah was planning to add it but feel free to start it | 13:52 |
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| shadower | chmouel: thanks, I wasn't aware of entry_points. Will read through the links | 13:53 |
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| chmouel | shadower: you welcome. | 13:55 |
| openstackgerrit | Pavlo Shchelokovskyy proposed a change to openstack/heat: Implement cancelling of stack update https://review.openstack.org/63779 | 13:56 |
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| shadower | chmouel: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/stevedore-plugins | 14:05 |
| shadower | chmouel: feel free to expand on it | 14:05 |
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| therve | shadower, chmouel: Are we sure that stevodore solves the issue we're having, though? | 14:06 |
| therve | I remember having the same problems with entry points previously | 14:06 |
| chmouel | therve: what make you think it doesn't ? | 14:06 |
| therve | (loading test files) | 14:06 |
| therve | chmouel, What makes you think it does? :) | 14:06 |
| chmouel | therve: lol | 14:06 |
| shadower | fair enough | 14:07 |
| chmouel | therve: because with entry point you don't have to read the full directory and search for python files | 14:07 |
| shadower | I'm not sure either, for the record | 14:07 |
| chmouel | therve: you can just point the plugin name to whatever entry you want | 14:07 |
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| therve | chmouel, You mean directly to contrib/docker/docker/resources/ instead of contrib/docker/ ? | 14:08 |
| chmouel | therve: you know that i have been swearing about those for the last couple of days :) | 14:08 |
| chmouel | therve: in setup.cfg | 14:09 |
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| therve | chmouel, But I already told you that setup.cfg is not what we want to use | 14:09 |
| chmouel | therve: you could just point to whatever the entry point for the docker contrib | 14:09 |
| chmouel | therve: why? | 14:09 |
| therve | chmouel, Because that's not something you customize at deployment time | 14:09 |
| chmouel | you can just have the entry point speciyfing the configuration | 14:09 |
| chmouel | of the module | 14:09 |
| chmouel | but the module itself what to load is in heat.conf | 14:10 |
| chmouel | and that's up to the deployer | 14:10 |
| therve | chmouel, We don't ship all the modules that people are going to deploy | 14:10 |
| chmouel | s/module/plugin/ | 14:10 |
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| chmouel | therve: entry poins is designed for that | 14:10 |
| chmouel | you have a namespace | 14:10 |
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| chmouel | i.e: heat.plugins | 14:10 |
| chmouel | and you ask stevesdore to load everything there | 14:10 |
| chmouel | whatever it's installed as an alternative module or not | 14:10 |
| chmouel | it would register in that namespace | 14:11 |
| chmouel | and admin can have a plugins_enabled configuration or something | 14:11 |
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| chmouel | to specify what plugins to enabled (according to the name specified by the plugin) | 14:11 |
| therve | It's not totally clear to me. WTH setup.cfg has to do with anything? | 14:12 |
| chmouel | setup.cfg specifying stuff like: | 14:12 |
| chmouel | (hold on) | 14:12 |
| chmouel | http://pastie.org/private/vzplhpfsqhzkqnjv0lsa | 14:13 |
| chmouel | inside heat's setup.cfg | 14:13 |
| chmouel | or outside if they want | 14:13 |
| chmouel | but whiting the same namespace of heat.plugins | 14:13 |
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| therve | chmouel, So yeah exactly | 14:14 |
| therve | chmouel, What if I wrote mysuper.cloud.resources modules | 14:15 |
| therve | That doens't exist for in heat or contrib | 14:15 |
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| chmouel | you ahve have the same thing with : http://pastie.org/private/1fcqr5pntrcivkmxylepq | 14:15 |
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| therve | chmouel, So you need to modify setup.cfg. As a deployer. Which sucks | 14:16 |
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| chmouel | noip noip | 14:16 |
| chmouel | ok let me do a POC? or explain you in F2F at the office? | 14:16 |
| therve | Sure | 14:17 |
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| jd__ | I've been invoked | 14:17 |
| yassine | jd__: hahahaha | 14:17 |
| therve | I'm concerned you can't explain without changing setup.cfg :) | 14:17 |
| * therve cleans the pentagram | 14:17 | |
| jd__ | who summoned me? | 14:18 |
| * jd__ stares at therve | 14:18 | |
| chmouel | therve: you specify in setup.cfg the configuration of the module | 14:18 |
| chmouel | therve: not how your heat works | 14:18 |
| therve | chmouel, You said that I don't need to change setup.cfg to register my module. Do I need to or not? | 14:19 |
| chmouel | therve: not for your heat instance | 14:19 |
| chmouel | you register them in those pkg_config | 14:20 |
| therve | chmouel, For my heat package? | 14:20 |
| radix | therve: I think it's a lot like twisted plugins | 14:21 |
| radix | therve: you can have other packages installing stuff to heat.plugins | 14:21 |
| therve | So I'm sorry, I don't want to sound obnoxious :). I just don't understand | 14:21 |
| radix | so basically, a third-party resource needs to have its own setup.cfg which installs there | 14:22 |
| therve | radix, Ah *thank*. Now that makes sense :) | 14:22 |
| radix | shared context :) | 14:22 |
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| therve | jd__, So to get back to ceilometer as an example, I can have an entrypoint for ceilometer.alarm.notifier in my proprietary package that allows creating alarm actions for super_protocol:// URLs? | 14:25 |
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| jd__ | therve: yes | 14:26 |
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| therve | Cool. I understand quickly, you just need to explain to me for a long time. | 14:27 |
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| openstackgerrit | Richard Lee proposed a change to openstack/heat: Allow outputs to be specified as hidden https://review.openstack.org/75238 | 14:36 |
| openstackgerrit | Richard Lee proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add hidden attribute to output params in HOT DSL https://review.openstack.org/75492 | 14:36 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Dake proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add conditional creation of resource to the HOT specification https://review.openstack.org/84468 | 15:02 |
| sdake_ | let hte ppopcorn begin | 15:02 |
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| openstackgerrit | Zane Bitter proposed a change to openstack/heat: Add a resource_facade intrinsic function to HOT https://review.openstack.org/83895 | 15:05 |
| mspreitz | sdake: I had not imagined that anything like that would be acceptable. I like the idea of limiting it to parse-time. This looks promising to me. | 15:07 |
| sdake_ | mspreitz borrowed from cfn | 15:10 |
| sdake_ | Just opening it up for discussion | 15:10 |
| sdake_ | I am not totally opposed as I once was | 15:10 |
| sdake_ | I just had 20 line if statements dancing in my head | 15:10 |
| mspreitz | I will consider it some and respond later. | 15:10 |
| sdake_ | I tend to jump to the worst possible conclusions when presented with odd ideas :) | 15:11 |
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| therve | sdake_, So I have several comments about that. Should I make them in gerrit? | 15:26 |
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| sdake_ | therve feel free | 15:27 |
| therve | Cool | 15:28 |
| openstackgerrit | Pavlo Shchelokovskyy proposed a change to openstack/heat: Trove Resource Update https://review.openstack.org/60532 | 15:28 |
| therve | sdake_, I very much like your idea of having a patch to propose a design though, great work | 15:29 |
| sdake_ | I think for hot changes it is necessary | 15:30 |
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| sdake_ | I'd also like to tighten up the requirements around changing hot_spec | 15:30 |
| sdake_ | maybe increase the number of core votes needed for hot_spec.rst changes | 15:30 |
| sdake_ | we seem to have 5 for our core team acceptance | 15:30 |
| sdake_ | hot is one of those fundamental things in heat, that we want to be careful eveyrone is on board with the change | 15:31 |
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| pablosan | Heya brint: https://heat.rackspace.com/dashboard should be correct now. Let me know if you see anything that doesn't make sense. | 15:54 |
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| brint | what does stacks at risk mean? | 15:54 |
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| therve | sdake_, Commented | 15:57 |
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| pablosan | brint stacks that have been in an "In Progress" state for longer than 20 minutes. | 16:00 |
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| sdake | therve thanks for hte comments | 16:17 |
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| sdake | lets try to keep the discusion in gerrit if possible so folks don't lose context | 16:17 |
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| sdake | since I'm sure this will be a bit contentious :0 | 16:17 |
| therve | Sure | 16:17 |
| sdake | and tbh, I'm not entirely sold | 16:17 |
| sdake | just putting it out there :) | 16:17 |
| therve | Yeah that's cool. | 16:18 |
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| sdake | i am sold on one thing, using things as they are with the proposed model keeps the dsl declarative which would be mandatory for me | 16:18 |
| sdake | i've been rolling since 5am and need a quick break | 16:20 |
| sdake | that waas for jpeeler sorry folks ^^ | 16:20 |
| sdake | therve would you mind adding your objections to the conditionals section inline in the review rather then in the review comments at the end | 16:21 |
| sdake | that way we can discuss it there | 16:21 |
| therve | Okay. | 16:21 |
| therve | I thought I did :) | 16:21 |
| sdake | you added at the end in the "review text" | 16:22 |
| sdake | but not in the actual conditional change code section | 16:22 |
| sdake | its easier imo to have discussions in the code review under question per line - better reply functionality | 16:22 |
| therve | Yeah I talked in both places. | 16:22 |
| sdake | hmm sorry must have missed let me check again | 16:23 |
| sdake | hot.spec.rst line 53 | 16:23 |
| sdake | that is where i made the change to add the conditions top level section | 16:23 |
| sdake | i dont see a comment there | 16:24 |
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| sdake | zaneb are intrinsics resolved at parse time or lazily? | 16:31 |
| sdake | eg, if after executing an instrinsic, are you guaranteed to get a result | 16:32 |
| zaneb | they're replaced in the syntax tree with Function objects at parse time | 16:32 |
| zaneb | and the values are returned lazily | 16:32 |
| sdake | is there any way to make something unlazy? | 16:33 |
| sdake | eg, to force resolution? | 16:33 |
| zaneb | sure, just calculate the value when you create the Function object and return later on request | 16:33 |
| zaneb | return *it later | 16:33 |
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| sdake | zaneb my quesiton arises from therve's comment on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84468/ | 16:34 |
| sdake | A condition function which would return a value: | 16:34 |
| sdake | {condition: [bool, 'then_value', 'else_value']} the else clause being optional. | 16:34 |
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| sdake | can you run through that scenario in your mind and see if it could result in an inability to parse the template (and comment in review) | 16:34 |
| zaneb | looking... | 16:35 |
| sdake | concerned someone could do something crazy like {condition: [bool, {condition ... somethign that doesn't rewoslve) | 16:35 |
| zaneb | I don't see any obstacle to doing that | 16:38 |
| sdake | cool mind commenting in the review with that thought | 16:38 |
| sdake | since your our expert on the parser ;) | 16:38 |
| therve | Yeah recursivity should be easy here | 16:39 |
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| therve | The main problem about that proposal is whether or not we want to do it, to be honest | 16:40 |
| sdake | agree, would like broad core approval before we commit | 16:40 |
| therve | Currently I'm +0 :) | 16:41 |
| sdake | lets figure out the best design and then i'll harras the core team to evaluate if they want it or not :) | 16:41 |
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| zaneb | I am +1 fwiw | 16:48 |
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| therve | zaneb, +1 for the variables section | 16:53 |
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| arosen | stevebaker: thanks for your help yesterday. I'm back at it again today :) just curious if you had a ubuntu image that you use with heat that I could steal? Should this one work? http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/raring/current/raring-server-cloudimg-amd64-disk1.img | 17:42 |
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| sdake | arosen stevebaker probably isn't awake yet, but as far as ubuntu images go, you will probably need to install heat-cfntools if you intend to use those tools | 18:25 |
| sdake | if you dont intend to use them, that image should work | 18:25 |
| sdake | i dont know if the ubuntu images have cloudinit built in but i'd suspect they do | 18:25 |
| arosen | sdake cool thanks i'll give it a shot | 18:26 |
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| mspreitz | I have been using Ubuntu 12.04 --- 13.10 images; they all have cloud-init | 18:30 |
| mspreitz | sdake: when I wake up tomorrow, will the conditional resources proposal still be there? | 18:30 |
| sdake | huh? | 18:30 |
| sdake | where would it go | 18:30 |
| mspreitz | arosen: you will find cloud-init in Ubuntu | 18:30 |
| mspreitz | wherever stuff from April 1 goes at the end of the day | 18:31 |
| sdake | not an april fools joke | 18:31 |
| sdake | i realize it could be suspected as such but it is an honest proposal | 18:31 |
| mspreitz | :-) | 18:31 |
| sdake | do you honeslty think I would have spent all that time writing that text for a joke? :) | 18:31 |
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| mspreitz | I have seen some extensive jokes | 18:32 |
| sdake | closedstack.org being the most relevant to this group :) | 18:32 |
| mspreitz | done some myself | 18:32 |
| mspreitz | It was great fun back when I worked in a real eat-your-own-dogfood place | 18:32 |
| mspreitz | (not to diss openstack, it's the closest I have come since) | 18:33 |
| sdake | i'm not totally sold on conditionals but the discussion needs to be had | 18:33 |
| sdake | at worst, i'll play devil's advocate :) | 18:33 |
| mspreitz | Yeah, I am not totally sold too | 18:34 |
| mspreitz | It can give me some grief | 18:34 |
| mspreitz | But that's part of a larger issue | 18:34 |
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| mspreitz | might as well mention it briefly now | 18:34 |
| sdake | would you ind mentining in review | 18:34 |
| sdake | so context isn't lost | 18:34 |
| mspreitz | OK. It's very vague at the moment, but I'll write something. | 18:34 |
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| openstackgerrit | Jason Dunsmore proposed a change to openstack/python-heatclient: Add option to show soft-deleted stacks in stack-list https://review.openstack.org/84520 | 18:40 |
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| kfox1111 | congrats on the rc. | 18:43 |
| kfox1111 | so... is hot considered complete enough to replace cfn or are there still gaps in functionality like some websites suggest? | 18:49 |
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| SpamapS | kfox1111: IMO we have to start pushing users to at least try to replace their CFN, or we won't know what is missing. | 18:58 |
| SpamapS | so "beta" seems appropriate | 18:58 |
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| SpamapS | win 17 | 19:04 |
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| kfox1111 | ok. well, the elasticsearch templates are pretty complicated and I am using them in production, so I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of work on them to get them to hot when its "beta". | 19:12 |
| kfox1111 | Someone who wants to push the limits of hot can take the cfn elasticsearch templates and "hotize" them though. | 19:12 |
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| sdake | hot is supported in icehouse kfox | 19:19 |
| sdake | but ya get you dont have time to spend reworking them :) | 19:19 |
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| kfox1111 | I'm still in havana too. | 19:20 |
| kfox1111 | some of the template bits can be reworked to work much nicer in icehouse I think. | 19:20 |
| kfox1111 | I'm really looking forward to the new autoscaling groups. Should simplify things a lot if I can figure out how they work and ensure they don't break things. | 19:21 |
| kfox1111 | Can you remove specific members of the group via an api? | 19:21 |
| therve | No | 19:22 |
| therve | I think that's somewhat defeat the purpose :) | 19:22 |
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| therve | Maybe in ResourceGroup though | 19:22 |
| kfox1111 | well, how would you be able to safely drain a member of the group before you have it deleted? | 19:23 |
| kfox1111 | or has that use case not been considered yet? | 19:23 |
| kfox1111 | I don't think yo ucan with a ResourceGroup either. | 19:23 |
| therve | You can (should) have notifications | 19:24 |
| kfox1111 | the notifications let you block the delete until its "ready"? | 19:24 |
| therve | But every member should be considered the same, so removing a specific one sounds like a bad idea | 19:24 |
| therve | Ultimately :). They don't exist right now | 19:25 |
| kfox1111 | Two examples, mongodb cluster. Each node has chunks of the database. You can delete any node, but only after you tell it to migrate its chunks to the other members of the cluster. | 19:25 |
| kfox1111 | the other one we want to do is ssh login nodes for our compute cluster. | 19:25 |
| kfox1111 | we don't want to scale down until the last user has logged off a login node. | 19:25 |
| kfox1111 | both can automatically scale up. | 19:26 |
| therve | Right, so it's not about removing a specific node | 19:26 |
| kfox1111 | both need a bit of help scaling down. it can be automated, but you need a hook of some kind that says when its safe to actually delete. | 19:26 |
| therve | Yes, we want to have that hook. This is a common need. We don't know how to do it yet though. | 19:27 |
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| kfox1111 | ah. bummer. ok. | 19:29 |
| kfox1111 | So icehouse autoscaling wont help me yet then. :( | 19:29 |
| kfox1111 | Juno it is. :) | 19:29 |
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| sdake | kfox we know about htis problem, we plan to solve it with server quesing | 19:30 |
| sdake | it is unclear to me if this is ready to go in icehouse with the os-*-* tools, or if further work is needed | 19:31 |
| sdake | stevebaker would be able to give a definitive answer | 19:31 |
| kfox1111 | maybe just a simple http address I can register with the template that does a post and allows the delete to happen when it returns 200 would work. I could make that work for both of my use cases. | 19:31 |
| kfox1111 | if its not ready yet, it can just return 503 | 19:32 |
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| kfox1111 | autoscaling would just pick a host, do the post to the url, then wait until it 200's. If it times out, it just tries the post again. | 19:34 |
| kfox1111 | is there a blueprint I can follow? | 19:35 |
| therve | You said "just" way too many times :) | 19:35 |
| stevebaker | morning | 19:36 |
| sdake | making sea salt ftw ;) | 19:36 |
| therve | kfox1111, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/auto-scaling-notifications is a good one | 19:36 |
| kfox1111 | hehe. yeah. that comes from only 4 hours of sleep I suppose. :/ | 19:36 |
| therve | I mean, you're right. It's "just" a matter of writing some code! | 19:37 |
| kfox1111 | ah. so using marconi. interesting. | 19:37 |
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| kfox1111 | hmm.... marconi still does not have a long poll. :/ | 19:40 |
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| arosen | Does heat use config drive as well by default? I have key_name in my heat template and it seems to be working though I don't the metadata agent stuff setup so I guess it must be using config drive to get that information? | 19:44 |
| kfox1111 | I guess part of this is, when is the timeline for doing notifications. If it depends on Marconi, that may be after Juno? | 19:45 |
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| therve | kfox1111, We can find an alternative. That blueprint is not tied to Marconi | 19:46 |
| therve | arosen, It depends on how your nova is setup AFAIU | 19:46 |
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| stevebaker | kfox1111: quiesing is possible now using software-config for resource/stack delete, but tripleo need it for server rebuild/reboot which will require some development | 19:48 |
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| sdake_ | stevebaker I think shadower is taking a look at that, might point him in the right direction | 19:53 |
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| stevebaker | sdake_: quiesing for rebuild/reboot? SpamapS is too | 19:54 |
| sdake_ | cool | 19:54 |
| sdake_ | maybe they can work together on it | 19:54 |
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| sdake__ | I think one problem we have (I have) is I don't know how to tell people to quiesce there servers | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: that actually isn't true | 19:55 |
| sdake__ | as there are no docs or examples I know of :) | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: it is not available now | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: you will quiesce on delete of the _deployment_ | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | but that isn't necessarily the delete of the server. | 19:55 |
| SpamapS | Unless I've missed some place where the server delete is tied in. | 19:56 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: but if a server is UpdateReplace that will trigger an UpdateReplace of the deployment first | 19:57 |
| SpamapS | stevebaker: what if I leave the deployment resource, but move it to another server and delete the old one? | 19:58 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: if the deployment has some DELETE config it will run on the old server first | 19:59 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: DELETE config ? | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: actions: DELETE | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/heat/template_guide/openstack.html#OS::Heat::SoftwareDeployment | 20:00 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: ah ok then I'm missing where that is hooked into the server delete. Will look again. :-P | 20:01 |
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| stevebaker | SpamapS: since we already have stack actions SUSPEND and RESUME which were only added for server resources, maybe we should have stack actions REBUILD and REBOOT too? | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | shardy_afk: ^ | 20:02 |
| SpamapS | well... | 20:03 |
| SpamapS | it's a server specific thing | 20:03 |
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| stevebaker | it is, a side-effect of UPDATE | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | oh well | 20:03 |
| SpamapS | suspend and resume is more for a stack wide suspend or resume, right? | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | yeah | 20:04 |
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| SpamapS | stevebaker: similar end-goal though.. so it might work to have them all work the same | 20:04 |
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| kfox1111 | so does quiesing with software-config work with icehouse or does it still need work? | 20:06 |
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| SpamapS | kfox1111: it looks like the DELETE quiesce should owrk | 20:10 |
| SpamapS | kfox1111: to be clear though, you should just have things quiesce themselves on shutdown.. because DELETE will be like a poweroff button on the machine usually. | 20:10 |
| SpamapS | which is actually why I'm not sure it needs a special case. | 20:10 |
| SpamapS | because Heat will spin until the node goes away before moving up the graph to the parent items. | 20:11 |
| kfox1111 | so it will ensure the system is shutdown before deleting the instance? | 20:11 |
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| kfox1111 | hmm... | 20:12 |
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| kfox1111 | what if Iwant to take an outage and don't want to migrate all the stuff back and forth, but simply shut down all the instances? | 20:13 |
| kfox1111 | I wouldn't be able to do that anymore? | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | arosen: that ubuntu image will have a new enough version of cloud-init, and should work with get.docker.io | 20:34 |
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| kfox1111 | can you do a parameter groups section in cfn in icehouse or is that just a hot feature? | 20:39 |
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| jay_t_c_2 | hello all | 20:43 |
| jay_t_c_2 | I am having some issues with autoscaling and heat and have been searching the web for days trying to figure out what i am doing wrong | 20:43 |
| jay_t_c_2 | is there anyone that may be able to give some advice | 20:44 |
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| jay_t_c_2 | it seems there is a problem with my alarm_action related to my scaling policy | 20:45 |
| jay_t_c_2 | i don't think i am getting a proper alarmurl back | 20:45 |
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| tspatzier | zaneb: are you there? | 20:47 |
| zaneb | o/ | 20:47 |
| tspatzier | hi | 20:47 |
| tspatzier | zaneb: this is re https://review.openstack.org/83984 -> I added a question to one of your review comments. Would be good if you could have a look, then I can go and change it. | 20:48 |
| tspatzier | But no hurry, it's already late here ;-) | 20:48 |
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| tspatzier | one thing I just thought: to not change the API, we could let the template class raise an exception and do the Error dict thing in EngineService? | 20:50 |
| stevebaker | kfox1111: that is HOT only. all the cool features are ;) | 20:51 |
| zaneb | tspatzier: yes, exactly. just left a comment to that effect ;) | 20:52 |
| tspatzier | zaneb: ah, then I got it :-) Thanks. | 20:52 |
| jay_t_c_2 | or should i be asking my question somewhere else? | 20:52 |
| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: what does your alarm url look like? | 20:52 |
| jay_t_c_2 | arn%3Aopenstack%3Aheat%3A%3A61aa7d6cb9f44ef59cfcfff1ed0b7f87%3Astacks%2FAutoScale2%2Fab8834d2-a156-4a3e-8d9f-c7fe252072e8%2Fresources%2FWebServerScaleUpPolicy?Timestamp=2014-04-01T19%3A56%3A33Z&SignatureMethod=HmacSHA256&AWSAccessKeyId=2195615de2ef42c5ac2fe2c4b58a7ee2&SignatureVersion=2&Signature=PJymyWPUWQkYx4km6Lo0xxUCJBvw3oQoBYgF2n87Qg8%3D (http://dmsosheat.dmlabs.verizon.com:8004/arn%3Aopenstack%3Aheat%3A%3A61aa7d6cb9f44ef59cfcfff1ed | 20:53 |
| jay_t_c_2 | arn%3Aopenstack%3Aheat%3A%3A61aa7d6cb9f44ef59cfcfff1ed0b7f87%3Astacks%2FAutoScale2%2Fab8834d2-a156-4a3e-8d9f-c7fe252072e8%2Fresources%2FWebServerScaleUpPolicy?Timestamp=2014-04-01T19%3A56%3A33Z&SignatureMethod=HmacSHA256&AWSAccessKeyId=2195615de2ef42c5ac2fe2c4b58a7ee2&SignatureVersion=2&Signature=PJymyWPUWQkYx4km6Lo0xxUCJBvw3oQoBYgF2n87Qg8%3D | 20:54 |
| jay_t_c_2 | sorry | 20:54 |
| kfox1111 | stevebaker: hmm... so eventually I do want to get to hot. just gota figure out what features it lacks that I actually need. guess I won't know until I try. :/ | 20:54 |
| jpeeler | sdake__: were you just discussing, or is there something to consider about more core reviews necessary to modify the hot spec? | 20:54 |
| zaneb | lol | 20:54 |
| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: paste.openstack.org | 20:54 |
| jay_t_c_2 | for the template you mean? | 20:54 |
| arosen | stevebaker: thanks yup it does in fact work though unfortinately, at work there is a proxy that blocks the gpg key add command that the docker install script is trying. | 20:54 |
| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: just for the url for now | 20:55 |
| zaneb | they're longer than I remembered ;) | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | kfox1111: also, software-config is just resources, not HOT. So you have flexibility about which you move to first | 20:55 |
| arosen | stevebaker: if I reboot an instance does it rerun all the user-data commands again? | 20:56 |
| stevebaker | arosen: I assume so | 20:56 |
| jay_t_c_2 | zaneb: ok i was doing a alarm_actions: [{"Fn::GetAtt": [WebServerScaleDownPolicy, AlarmUrl]}] in template | 20:56 |
| jay_t_c_2 | will provide past of url returned by that | 20:56 |
| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: ta | 20:56 |
| kfox1111 | stevebaker: ok, cool. thanks. :) | 20:57 |
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| stevebaker | arosen: of course if you're embracing the docker image-based mindset you will use diskimage-builder to build an image which already has docker installed on it ;) | 20:59 |
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| jay_t_c_2 | zaneb: http://paste.openstack.org/show/vzqdIrChUSphHUsoZM74/ | 20:59 |
| arosen | stevebaker: I'd need to have that image already uploaded to glance though right? | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | arosen: yes | 21:00 |
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| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: the url starts with arn%3A... ? | 21:01 |
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| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: that's not a valid url, so something has definitely gone wrong in that case | 21:01 |
| jay_t_c_2 | yea | 21:01 |
| jay_t_c_2 | i am trying to figure out what is going wrong there | 21:01 |
| zaneb | your Fn::GetAtt looks correct | 21:01 |
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| arosen | stevebaker: I'm curious so: port_specs : List --- TCP/UDP ports mapping does that allow me to map my instances IP:PORT to within a port running in the docker container? | 21:02 |
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| stevebaker | arosen: I think so, but now you're getting into docker specific stuff - I haven't played with it much yet | 21:03 |
| jay_t_c_2 | zaneb: i was expecting something more like http://heatservername:8004/v1/blablabla/WebServerScaleUpPolicy | 21:04 |
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| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: I was expecting something like http://heatservername:8004/v1/something/arn%30... | 21:05 |
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| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: so you have the end of it, but are missing the beginning | 21:06 |
| zaneb | looking at the code now to see how that's possible | 21:06 |
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| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: what value is the heat_waitcondition_server_url option in your heat config file? | 21:07 |
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| jay_t_c_2 | zaneb: no value | 21:08 |
| jay_t_c_2 | it is commented out | 21:08 |
| jay_t_c_2 | zaneb: should there be something there? | 21:09 |
| zaneb | jay_t_c_2: just checked... there's no default, so yes you need something there | 21:09 |
| jay_t_c_2 | zaneb: what should be there | 21:10 |
| zaneb | http://heatservername.example:8000/v1/waitcondition | 21:12 |
| zaneb | where 8000 is the port number of heat-api-cfn | 21:12 |
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| jay_t_c_2 | zaneb: also there is metadata_server and watch_server | 21:14 |
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| zaneb | I don't believe either of those are used any more | 21:14 |
| zaneb | watch server was replaced by ceilometer | 21:14 |
| mattoliverau | Morning | 21:15 |
| jay_t_c_2 | ok | 21:15 |
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| zaneb | metadata server was replaced by this waitcondition thing iirc | 21:15 |
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| ruhe | zaneb: sdake__: hi (i'm ruslan from muranopl thread) | 21:17 |
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| zaneb | ruhe: o/ | 21:17 |
| ruhe | zaneb: i haven't seen your feedback on http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/031189.html | 21:18 |
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| ruhe | maybe it got lost, maybe you think it's not a good idea? | 21:18 |
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| yogesh | Hello, a quick question... | 21:19 |
| zaneb | ruhe: sorry, I never replied. I think it is mostly a good idea | 21:19 |
| ruhe | zaneb: we have a cross-project session for ATL summit http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/1 | 21:20 |
| zaneb | ruhe: at the moment it feels too open-ended IMO. We need someone to propose something concrete on the mailing list, and then we can discuss | 21:20 |
| yogesh | Is there a way to handle circular dependency within the heat template...scenario like one compute depends on other compute's IP address and and vice versa... | 21:20 |
| zaneb | ruhe: definitely support a summit session | 21:20 |
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| zaneb | ruhe: but I can imagine it would be helpful to y'all to kick something off sooner | 21:20 |
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| ruhe | zaneb: yes, usually people don't have much time at the summit. that's why i'd like to have a focused group of people to work and produce something before the summit | 21:21 |
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| ruhe | zaneb: will you be willing to participate from the Heat side? i feel that we need a representative from the heat team to be aligned with future plans in heat/software configuration | 21:23 |
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| ruhe | once we roll out something more concrete | 21:23 |
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| zaneb | ruhe: happy to participate, but I don't represent anyone ;) | 21:28 |
| ruhe | zaneb: ok. got it :) | 21:29 |
| zaneb | tbh I find the mailing list the best place for these discussions | 21:29 |
| zaneb | if an IRC meeting is required I can attend, assuming it is a meeting about something, not just a meeting ;) | 21:30 |
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| ruhe | zaneb: sometimes people get distracted by unnesecary details in the ML. but i tend to agree with you, that ML is one of the best options | 21:31 |
| ruhe | zaneb: thank you. i'll also ping sdake__ since he was also active in that thread; or he'll just read our conversation | 21:33 |
| sdake__ | ruhe hey reading scrollback | 21:33 |
| ruhe | sdake__: hi :) | 21:34 |
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| sdake__ | ruhe my general take it is important to figure out how heat, mistral, murano, solum, etc identify themselves, and do they identify as part of the orchestration program or some other program | 21:37 |
| sdake__ | if they identify as part of the orchestration program, then it makes sense to work toward cementing that | 21:37 |
| sdake__ | ruhe I think it would be a shame for there to be a whole bunch of competing efforts with alot of overlap that don't have a coherent organization behind them | 21:38 |
| sdake__ | but if they are not part of the orchestraition program, ideally they aren't my problem :) | 21:38 |
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| ruhe | sdake__: i couldn't agree more on aligning all these projects towards coherent solution | 21:39 |
| sdake__ | well you missed my conditional, the part about the orchestration pgoram | 21:40 |
| ruhe | i didn't :) | 21:40 |
| sdake__ | if these projects are not part of the orchestration program, then I don't really think we have much say in what happens | 21:40 |
| ruhe | i just didn't type it yet | 21:40 |
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| ruhe | i think our common goal is to build a good paas (or whatever they call it) on top of infrastructure layer of OpenStack. and the only way to do it and get a coherent solution is to work within the same program to ensure and enforce group work and collaboration between these projects | 21:42 |
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| sdake | typically paas is not the charter of the orchestration program | 21:42 |
| SpamapS | ruhe: so you're competing with Solum? | 21:43 |
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| ruhe | SpamapS: i don't think so | 21:43 |
| SpamapS | ruhe: so you're using Solum to get code into your PaaS? | 21:44 |
| sdake | i think if the goal is to get good cross-program execution, we are keen on that, as our commitment to tripleo has shown in the past | 21:44 |
| SpamapS | ruhe: I don't think competition at this level is bad _at all_ | 21:44 |
| sdake | and our overwhelming integration with other openstack projects | 21:45 |
| sdake | so both up the stack and down | 21:45 |
| ruhe | SpamapS: murano is not about code; it's about application which are ready to be used; | 21:45 |
| sdake | i think the issue is these projects mistral, murano, solum have not identified which program they want to be a part of, or if they should be a new program | 21:45 |
| SpamapS | ruhe: I think you're doing the same thing. | 21:46 |
| SpamapS | ruhe: You're focusing on the end more, and Solum is focusing on the beginning, but you are aiming at the same task. | 21:46 |
| sdake | spamaps solum is a git based model of deployment | 21:46 |
| sdake | murano is a gui based model of deployment | 21:46 |
| SpamapS | Solum has started with git, and is focused on supporting a typical medium scale development team. | 21:47 |
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| SpamapS | But the end is the same. You package something up and put it on the cloud. | 21:47 |
| sdake | workflow seems more up orchestration's alley imo | 21:47 |
| SpamapS | I wonder sometimes if Orchestration is the wrong term for the program. | 21:48 |
| SpamapS | What we really want to unite under is the banner of API control. | 21:48 |
| SpamapS | Whether it is in a workflow context, or an orchestration context, we are about giving the user tools to tie API's and their respective products together. | 21:49 |
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| ruhe | we approached TC to find out the best place for Murano - new or existing program. feedback was - speak with the Orchestration program. If Orchestration program welcomes project like Murano, then I don't see any problem being a part of this program. It's just a big plus | 21:57 |
| ruhe | SpamapS: i think that Solum and Murano will complement each other | 21:57 |
| sdake_1 | ruhe I must have missed that thread :) | 21:57 |
| ruhe | sdake_1: it was during TC IRC meeting | 21:57 |
| sdake_1 | first i've heard about it | 21:58 |
| sdake_1 | zaneb did you know that happened ? :) | 21:58 |
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| zaneb | I was at the meeting, yeah | 21:58 |
| sdake_1 | we should probably put something on the heat agenda to discuss it with the wider heat core | 21:59 |
| sdake_1 | i dont know if tc's goals were communicated to us | 21:59 |
| zaneb | sdake_1: stevebaker was there too | 22:00 |
| SpamapS | ruhe: yeah perhaps you two can meet in the middle :) | 22:00 |
| * sdake_1 always the last one to know :) | 22:00 | |
| sdake_1 | well 2 core doesn't equal broader heat core imo :) | 22:00 |
| sdake_1 | we talked on ml about it a bit but there wasn't much response from the heat core about the topic | 22:01 |
| zaneb | fwiw I would support something in the orchestration program to tie together Heat and workflows into an application bundle | 22:02 |
| sdake_1 | zaneb it is an accurate assessment that that is not what murano+taskflow do presently? | 22:03 |
| zaneb | but imo MuranoPL sounds too ambitious to achieve that successfully, so I will need to be persuaded that Murano specifically should be the answer | 22:03 |
| sdake_1 | caskflow/mistral i mean | 22:03 |
| stevebaker | my recollection was that Murano currently has components which should be incorporated into at least 3 programs (orchestration, glance, horizon). It could be that once that process is complete it will be more obvious whether whatever is left belongs in its own program or should merge with other pre-incubated projects into a new program | 22:04 |
| zaneb | there's no integration point between Heat and any workflow-like thing atm | 22:04 |
| zaneb | my recollection matches stevebaker's | 22:05 |
| SpamapS | so | 22:05 |
| SpamapS | glance and horizon are not programs | 22:05 |
| SpamapS | Images is a program. :) | 22:05 |
| sdake_1 | just like heat isn't a program ;-) | 22:05 |
| ruhe | glance part is already discussed and aggreed on with the glance team | 22:06 |
| SpamapS | correct | 22:06 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: yes, I couldn't be bothered looking them up :p | 22:06 |
| SpamapS | But here's the thing | 22:06 |
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| SpamapS | TripleO pushes things into all the other _projects_ | 22:06 |
| SpamapS | I think Murano and Solum and ... should be focused on defining their program, and then moving forward. If they need to put features into existing projects, so be it. | 22:06 |
| SpamapS | I don't want to expand our focus to be all that Murano is | 22:07 |
| SpamapS | but I'm happy to expand our focus _to facilitate Murano_ | 22:07 |
| sdake_1 | we are having this discussoin with only 4 heat cores, there are 12 heat cores, think everyone deserves a voice in this sort of change | 22:08 |
| sdake_1 | already zaneb and spamaps are at odds ;) | 22:09 |
| SpamapS | I'm just pontificating. | 22:09 |
| zaneb | I actually couldn't give a rat's what program it ends up in ;) | 22:09 |
| ruhe | sdake_1: i support putting this on the Heat meeting agenda | 22:09 |
| sdake_1 | cool anyone can add to the agenda | 22:09 |
| SpamapS | I prefer more distributed-ness | 22:09 |
| ruhe | sdake_1: i'll do it then | 22:10 |
| sdake_1 | although i think this next wednesday meeting is usualy more sparsly attended because of hte time zone | 22:10 |
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| sdake_1 | so next meeting (the one at 2000utc) is probably the best to get the most heat core folks together | 22:10 |
| stevebaker | I don't see facilitating Murano as a change. we facilitate anyone who wants to orchestrate | 22:11 |
| sdake_1 | agree | 22:11 |
| sdake_1 | i think murano is thinking more along zaneb's lines? | 22:11 |
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| sdake_1 | or did the tc suggest sorting out facilitation? | 22:11 |
| SpamapS | Right that seems like its own thing. | 22:12 |
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| SpamapS | Unlike autoscaling, which is a fundamental block to build orchestration on top of, Murano is more of a leaf in the dependency tree. | 22:12 |
| sdake_1 | ya to me autoscaling seems natural, and workflow a possibility for scope expansion in the orchestration program | 22:13 |
| sdake_1 | but I am just 1 of the 12 heat cores :) | 22:13 |
| sdake_1 | so as you see, we can all speculate, but we need to come to a group decision im o:) | 22:13 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: what I want Murano to be is a layer so thin it doesn't make sense to have its own program. But that is not at all what Murano authors want Murano to be. | 22:14 |
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| sdake_1 | is ironic part of the compute program? | 22:16 |
| zaneb | hence discussion of which program it should go into is premature | 22:16 |
| zaneb | sdake_1: no | 22:16 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: a program can have a very thin software layer. | 22:18 |
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| SpamapS | zaneb: I don't think you can have an application packaging format and not have a program for it. | 22:18 |
| SpamapS | sdake_1: Ironic is its own program. | 22:18 |
| sdake_1 | i guess it would be interesting to understand why ironic is not part of copmute | 22:19 |
| zaneb | SpamapS: ok, then I'm fine with that too | 22:19 |
| SpamapS | and is useful without any other openstack components | 22:19 |
| sdake_1 | since they kind of do the same thing | 22:19 |
| zaneb | this whole discussion is just bikeshedding imho | 22:19 |
| SpamapS | Realistically tripleo has very "thin" software. diskimage-builder, tripleo-image-elements, os-*-config, tripleo-heat-templates .. all really small. | 22:19 |
| SpamapS | But it is the "Deployment" program. | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: we're not.. supposed.. to .. bikeshed? ;-) | 22:20 |
| sdake_1 | agree on bikeshed, a bikeshed with the heat core preesent would be more valuable :) | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | sdake_1: ironic is nothing like compute. :) | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | compute chops computers up into pieces and ties networking to the pieces | 22:20 |
| zaneb | deciding what we should actually do is interesting. deciding which program to put the project in is a trivial detail | 22:20 |
| sdake_1 | and murano is nothing like orchestratoin :) | 22:20 |
| SpamapS | baremetal provisioning has to deal with whole computers, and real wires. | 22:21 |
| SpamapS | sdake_1: well, _I_ agree. :) | 22:21 |
| sdake_1 | but workflow is like orchestration | 22:21 |
| sdake_1 | i can see a parallel | 22:21 |
| sdake_1 | zaneb I think its not a trivial detail because the projects already have code written | 22:22 |
| SpamapS | workflow and orchestration are siblings of the same parent, which is "control" | 22:23 |
| sdake_1 | if they didn't have code written it would be as simple as figuring out what to actually do :) | 22:23 |
| SpamapS | siblings _with_ the same parent | 22:23 |
| zaneb | sdake_1: we're not obliged to incubate a project just because they have written code | 22:23 |
| sdake_1 | this is why having the "which program does it go into" discussion could have been had first, and the proper problem of figuring out whta it should be could have been addressed :) | 22:24 |
| sdake_1 | so just assuming we were starting from scratch, makes sense to have that conversation now | 22:25 |
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| sdake_1 | well long day for me been rolling since 5am and have a cold - so heading out for the day | 22:34 |
| sdake_1 | enjoy | 22:34 |
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| mspreitz | stevebaker: are you there? | 22:37 |
| stevebaker | mspreitz: I am | 22:38 |
| ruhe | thank you guys for this discussion! and sorry for distracting from your day-by-day activities; i'll add an item for Heat meeting on the next week | 22:38 |
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| stevebaker | ruhe: next meeting is tomorrow | 22:38 |
| mspreitz | Thomas Herve pointed out that there is validation code, as well as a schema constraint, saying the list length is just 1 | 22:38 |
| mspreitz | Should I remove the validation check too? | 22:39 |
| ruhe | stevebaker:sdake_1 said that the one at 2000utc is preferrable to get the most heat core folks together | 22:39 |
| stevebaker | ruhe: true, lets do it next week | 22:40 |
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| stevebaker | mspreitz: since the validation check gives a more specific error message, and has a bug comment, I would prefer the schema constraint was removed | 22:41 |
| mspreitz | It was clear you wanted the schema constraint removed, I just wondered about removing the validation too. I will just remove the schema constraint on length. | 22:42 |
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| stevebaker | mspreitz: if the validation is already there and hasn't caused issues then lets leave it there | 22:42 |
| stevebaker | hmm, although | 22:43 |
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| stevebaker | with a constraint it will be auto-documented | 22:43 |
| mspreitz | validation complaint is better than random crash later | 22:43 |
| mspreitz | I am editing text in schema | 22:44 |
| mspreitz | text will document length limit | 22:44 |
| mspreitz | Really, there is a length limit. | 22:44 |
| mspreitz | Unless and until the impl is changed. | 22:45 |
| stevebaker | ok | 22:45 |
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| mspreitz | `tox -e pep8` says I need to run toos/config/generate_sample.sh, but that complains "No handlers could be found for logger "heat.common.config"" | 22:51 |
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| stevebaker | we need a separate change which syncs heat.conf.sample again :/ | 22:53 |
| mspreitz | so I just skip `tox -e pep8` for now? | 22:53 |
| stevebaker | mspreitz: our gating will fail until we fix it. Don't worry about it. | 22:54 |
| mspreitz | `tox -e py27` is not happy either | 22:54 |
| mspreitz | OK, I'll just submit | 22:54 |
| mspreitz | hmm, I'll have to fix the test too, back to old failure mode. | 22:56 |
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