| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/heat: Return template based class in list resource types https://review.openstack.org/79278 | 00:00 |
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| therve | skraynev, So do you have a patch in progress for that issue? | 15:10 |
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| pas-ha | therve: on the first glance could we move those lines 558-561 to the finally clause below? (if I'm not missing something important..) | 15:24 |
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| therve | pas-ha, I'd be surprised if it worked | 15:30 |
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| pas-ha | therve: yeah, thought that already too | 15:30 |
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| therve | I think the fix for now is just to change Pool.handle_update | 15:30 |
| pas-ha | yes, but will only fix get_resource usage | 15:31 |
| openstackgerrit | Pierre Padrixe proposed a change to openstack/heat: Remove auth_token condition in clients https://review.openstack.org/80605 | 15:32 |
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| therve | pas-ha, No I mean fix it completely. By storing the old monitors values for example | 15:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Hardy proposed a change to openstack/python-heatclient: Modify stack ID lookup to only use stacks:lookup https://review.openstack.org/80606 | 15:35 |
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| openstackgerrit | Steven Hardy proposed a change to openstack/heat: policy.json allow all users to do stacks:lookup https://review.openstack.org/80607 | 15:39 |
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| shardy | chmouel: Hi, do you plan to revive https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75383/? | 15:46 |
| shardy | chmouel: I've just posted a patch which I think ideally needs to be rebased on to those new tests | 15:46 |
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| chmouel | shardy: oh yeah sorry will do the rebase just now | 16:00 |
| pas-ha | therve: we could probably use what LoadBalancer does - it stores some values via db_api.resource_data_set in handle_create, and pulls, uses and updates them in handle_update | 16:02 |
| therve | Yep | 16:02 |
| sdake_ | jistr no prob | 16:05 |
| sdake_ | jistr try stevebaker re software config in about 4 hours or follow up on list | 16:05 |
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| sdake_ | I don't know if software config has file injection or not | 16:05 |
| sdake_ | I really need to block off a couple days to try it out | 16:05 |
| therve | It does | 16:09 |
| therve | You can pass files at stack creation now | 16:09 |
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| sdake_ | therve is there a 16kb limit? | 16:10 |
| sdake_ | (the nova metadata server limit) | 16:11 |
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| skraynev | therve: I am here | 16:13 |
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| skraynev | therve: I start find a fix for it, but still don't have any finished solution | 16:14 |
| jistr | sdake_: i need to read up on software config a bit. I wonder how much heavyweight solution would that be. Do you know what would we need running on the deployed node in order for the config to get applied? | 16:14 |
| shardy | sdake_: what I think we need to enable is for files to be injected via resource Metadata, but not to include the Metadata in the user-data passed to nova | 16:14 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/python-heatclient: Remove unused versions define in template_format.py https://review.openstack.org/79527 | 16:14 |
| jistr | i noticed software config can interface with puppet and stuff but that's probably not what we're looking for | 16:15 |
| shardy | sdake_: that is already possible via user_data_format=RAW, but we appear to still include Metadata for software config | 16:15 |
| therve | skraynev, So you should use resource_data_set/resource_data_get, as we mentioned with pas-ha | 16:15 |
| shardy | The stuff in the user-data would configure things so that e.g cfn-init can get the metadata via the API | 16:15 |
| shardy | then there is no size limit :) | 16:15 |
| sdake_ | jistr os-*-* tools | 16:16 |
| skraynev | Yeap, I looked back on discussion | 16:16 |
| jistr | sdake: cool, i think we have those in place | 16:16 |
| sdake_ | shardy user_data_format=raw still implies a 16kb limit no? | 16:16 |
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| sdake_ | the metadata would come from which api shardy? | 16:17 |
| skraynev | I agree, that cause of problem related with place which you mentioned above (in parser) | 16:17 |
| shardy | sdake_: the user-data would only contain the stuff to bootstrap connecting an agent to the API | 16:17 |
| shardy | sdake_: the Heat API, e.g cfn-init can poll the heat-api-cfn DescribeStackResource action | 16:17 |
| shardy | sdake_: I believe e.g os-collect-config can do similar | 16:18 |
| skraynev | therve: Also I have checked, that simple moving lines after updating task does not work. | 16:18 |
| shardy | so we don't have to pass everything in the user-data payload (even though mostly we do atm) | 16:18 |
| therve | Yeah it's more involved than that | 16:18 |
| skraynev | therve: I agree, that we should use approach as you mentioned with pas-ha | 16:19 |
| sdake_ | shardy thats a good idea | 16:19 |
| shardy | sdake_: there is also the personality property of OS::Nova::Server which looks interesting, as it looks like nova can do the file injection for us directly into the instance | 16:19 |
| shardy | jistr: ^^ | 16:20 |
| randallburt | shardy jistr: careful with personality file injection though. I've seen cases on our cloud where that doens't happen in time for cloud init to see the files. Might have been fixed since the last time I tried it, so ymmv. | 16:21 |
| shardy | randallburt: that's useful info, thanks! :) | 16:22 |
| randallburt | not sure if its an issue with how we have nova configured if at all, tho. | 16:22 |
| shardy | I had assumed it'd be injected into the image before starting the instance | 16:22 |
| shardy | randallburt: any idea how it works? | 16:22 |
| randallburt | shardy: me too. IIRC its dependent on your nova virt driver and some config things, but TBH, I didn't pursue it too deeply. | 16:23 |
| shardy | randallburt: Ok cool, probably worth jistr trying anyway | 16:23 |
| randallburt | shardy: I can try and give it a shot a little later this afternoon time permitting. Things a little hectic around here the last couple of days ;) | 16:23 |
| pas-ha | therve, skraynev: so I will invalidate the bug/1291411 I've filed and probably file another, more general one, as this inconsistent behavior of self.properties in presence of get_param and without it should be at least documented somewhere | 16:24 |
| jistr | shardy, sdake_ , randallburt: thanks a lot. We have several options now to explore and things seem much less hopeless than today morning :) | 16:24 |
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| therve | pas-ha, Yeah I think it's not really inconsistent. We shouldn't expect self.properties to be able to access old properties in handle_update for now, that's it. | 16:25 |
| randallburt | shardy: do we need a metadata call or something akin to DescribeStackResource in the native API as well? Also, IIRC, stevebaker asked Thomas to remove resource metadata from the HOT spec. | 16:26 |
| skraynev | therve: so you offer use different way for getting old values? | 16:26 |
| randallburt | shardy: concerned that software config relies on resource metadata and suddenly not working in HOT. | 16:26 |
| shardy | randallburt: we already have a resource:metadata call | 16:26 |
| therve | skraynev, Store them manually in the resource | 16:26 |
| skraynev | therve: and then use it in update instead self.properties, right? | 16:27 |
| shardy | randallburt: I presume if it is removed it will just be the interface which changes, i.e it will be redefined so metadata is a resource property rather than a top-level template key | 16:27 |
| randallburt | shardy: k. thanks for the clarification. | 16:28 |
| therve | skraynev, correct | 16:28 |
| pas-ha | skraynev: look what OS::Neutron::LoadBalancer does for its members | 16:29 |
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| skraynev | therve: ok, agree | 16:29 |
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| pas-ha | in handle_create, handle_update and handle_delete | 16:29 |
| skraynev | pas-ha: open file... | 16:30 |
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| jistr | have a nice weekend all and thanks again | 16:30 |
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| skraynev | pas-ha: yes, it make sense and could solve our problems. | 16:31 |
| skraynev | pas-ha: do you plan to do it yourself? I mean fix it. | 16:32 |
| openstackgerrit | Chmouel Boudjnah proposed a change to openstack/python-heatclient: Add new tests to cover most of the requests port https://review.openstack.org/75383 | 16:32 |
| pas-ha | skraynev: I could if you don't mind | 16:34 |
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| pas-ha | but you should probably abandon your change as I will overwrite the same line you changed anyway | 16:36 |
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| skraynev | pas-ha: =) I don't see a problem if you do it, because you first find issue and solution. As I understand right it will be one patch? Also I plan to re-factore my patch with updating networks property | 16:37 |
| skraynev | pas-ha: sure. | 16:37 |
| pas-ha | ok, cool | 16:37 |
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| skraynev | pas-ha: just a few questions: you plan to do write additional method for resource base class or only fix handle_update methods for LB? | 16:40 |
| shardy | anyone have any tips for getting horizon working on F20 (fresh devstack install) | 16:40 |
| shardy | I'm seeing this: http://paste.openstack.org/show/73514/ | 16:40 |
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| kfox1111 | are any tests being done with icehouse heat with havana everthing else? | 16:42 |
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| skraynev | zaneb: About validation outputs, could we discuss it after holidays (I mean some troubles, if I meet them during implementation)? | 16:45 |
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| skraynev | s/holidays/weekend | 16:45 |
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| zaneb | skraynev: sure can :) | 16:46 |
| skraynev | zaneb: cool =) | 16:46 |
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| skraynev | pas-ha: I forget mentioned, please mark bug 1292495 duplicate, when you create new bug about storing previous state of properties. | 16:49 |
| shardy | kfox1111: It should mostly work, except there are two keystone bugfixes which we need to get backported to havana | 16:49 |
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| shardy | kfox1111: bug #1269637 and bug #1259584 | 16:50 |
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| kfox1111 | shardy: Ok, thanks. So I'll probably do keystone first, then heat. | 16:54 |
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| shardy | kfox1111: good plan - until quite recently I had a box running havana RDO with just keystone and heat updated to master | 16:55 |
| shardy | can't say I tested everything, but most things I tried worked OK | 16:56 |
| kfox1111 | cool. I'm really looking forward to the new scaling features. | 16:57 |
| kfox1111 | I really wish I could get through the CLA mess. I really want to contribute more. :/ | 16:57 |
| kfox1111 | I'd write a resource for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/instance-group-api-extension today if I thought I could get it through. :/ | 16:58 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: could you reply on comments for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79592/ ? | 16:59 |
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| kfox1111 | can you use the unmanage feature from a stack? | 17:05 |
| pas-ha | skraynev: no, only fix handle_update for the Pool, as this is the only resource affected for now. | 17:05 |
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| skraynev | pas-ha: gotcha, AFAIK, you will do same for your commit with updating attachments? | 17:07 |
| pas-ha | skraynev: no, I turned to using self.resource_id there, as for detachment really an attachment_id is what's needed | 17:08 |
| pas-ha | that patch is already in working state and ready for review | 17:09 |
| pas-ha | ok, off to home, see you all Monday :) have a nice weekend everyone! | 17:10 |
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| skraynev | pas-ha: bye | 17:13 |
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| kfox1111 | I heard someone talking awhile ago about wanting an instance type that would delete the instance after it successfully completed its init work. (for formatting a new cinder volume for example). Did that get done for icehouse? | 17:20 |
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| openstackgerrit | Cyril Roelandt proposed a change to openstack/python-heatclient: Oslo: sync strutils https://review.openstack.org/78717 | 17:26 |
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| kfox1111 | hmm... actually, does DeletionPolicy work? That might get me where I want to be... | 17:27 |
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| sdake_ | https://github.com/cocaine/cocaine-core | 18:20 |
| sdake_ | crazy name for a PAAS | 18:20 |
| sdake_ | how do you go propose that to your co-workers :) | 18:20 |
| ryansb | sdake_: people don't realize how important a project name is | 18:20 |
| sdake_ | ryansb possible - some basic judgment can always be used to pick something that isn't offensive to some folks :) | 18:21 |
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| sdake_ | beyond avoiding offense, picking a project name shouldn't really be that hard :) | 18:22 |
| ryansb | sdake_: well, there's the basic "is this offensive" sanity check, but there's also a "does this name relate to my project at all?" test | 18:22 |
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| sdake_ | heat barely relates to orchestration | 18:23 |
| sdake_ | but it has stuck | 18:23 |
| ryansb | Fair enough. I thought it was picked because it was related (tangentially) to Cinder | 18:24 |
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| kfox1111 | sdake_: I find naming a project is often harder then writing the code for it for some reason.... :) | 18:26 |
| ryansb | kfox1111: didn't Knuth say something about that? "the two hard problems in Computer Science are caching and naming things" | 18:28 |
| kfox1111 | hehe. Yeah, I think your right. | 18:29 |
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| mutex | Hi | 18:29 |
| kfox1111 | hello. | 18:30 |
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| mutex | I am having trouble with heat attempting to connect a instance to a port twice | 18:30 |
| openstackgerrit | A change was merged to openstack/python-heatclient: Python3: fix test_stack_list_with_args() https://review.openstack.org/78619 | 18:30 |
| mutex | I had a previously working template, but now no longer works | 18:30 |
| mutex | http://paste.openstack.org/show/73518/ | 18:30 |
| mutex | trying to figure out if this is a heat problem, or if the cluster has been misconfigured in some other way | 18:30 |
| kfox1111 | let me take a look... | 18:32 |
| mutex | I can create neutron networks, routers, ports, just fine | 18:34 |
| kfox1111 | Looks about right to me... | 18:34 |
| mutex | but soon as I create an instance I get an error | 18:34 |
| mutex | yeah that is the thing, this *used* to work | 18:34 |
| mutex | then I did a couple of things to the cluster, like hooked keystone up to LDAP | 18:34 |
| kfox1111 | It works for me. Here's one of my templates https://raw.github.com/EMSL-MSC/heat-templates/master/hot/MongoDB/MongoDB_ConfigSvr.yaml | 18:34 |
| kfox1111 | The only thing I dont do, | 18:34 |
| kfox1111 | is the fixed_ips: - subnet_id | 18:35 |
| kfox1111 | thing. | 18:35 |
| mutex | hmm | 18:35 |
| kfox1111 | If you don't put in the subnet, it allocates you one automatically, so you can skip that part. | 18:35 |
| mutex | any thoughts on the error from nova ? | 18:35 |
| kfox1111 | I'm guessing its the subnet_id thing? It maybe creating the port automatically with the subnet, then seeing the subnet and trying to create another one? | 18:37 |
| mutex | could be | 18:38 |
| mutex | doesn't make sense that it would have worked a month ago, and failed now | 18:38 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. | 18:38 |
| kfox1111 | Though I have never done it that way, it does look like a valid thing to do. | 18:38 |
| kfox1111 | It may be a bug was introduced. | 18:39 |
| mutex | I didn't upgrade my software from havanna though :-( | 18:41 |
| kfox1111 | are you using rdo? | 18:43 |
| mutex | no | 18:44 |
| mutex | fuel | 18:44 |
| mutex | BTW creating the instances manually works just fine | 18:49 |
| mutex | with nova | 18:49 |
| mutex | seems to be some interaction between heat and nova | 18:49 |
| sdake | ryansb the heat name was chosen because heat makes the clouds rise | 18:52 |
| sdake | atleast that is what asalkeld said | 18:52 |
| sdake | I found out later heat actually makes clouds fall | 18:52 |
| sdake | but by then, the magic was in motion :) | 18:52 |
| ryansb | hehe. That's pretty great | 18:53 |
| sdake | mutex which version of heat are you using | 18:54 |
| mutex | client or server ? | 18:58 |
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| mutex | I think I tracked down the problem | 18:58 |
| mutex | at least I found a related part | 19:02 |
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| zaneb | ryansb: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TwoHardThings.html | 19:04 |
| sdake | cache invalidation is trivial by comparison :) | 19:07 |
| ryansb | Wow, was not even close on that attribution. | 19:08 |
| sdake | but there is a difference between not creating a damaging name and creating a great name :) | 19:08 |
| sdake | my kid's names rhyme - Warren and Lauryn | 19:09 |
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| sdake | it was totally not intentional but its great | 19:09 |
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| sdake | when I yell at one, the other pays attention :) | 19:09 |
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| sdake | when they turn into teenagers it will probably come back to haunt me as they will both think I a mtalking to the other kiddo :) | 19:10 |
| sdake | or claim atleast :) | 19:11 |
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| flashgordon | so it looks like stable/havana heat is breaking in tempest http://logs.openstack.org/20/62820/4/gate/gate-tempest-dsvm-full/6a9f94a/logs/testr_results.html.gz | 19:15 |
| flashgordon | SpamapS: ^ | 19:17 |
| SpamapS | flashgordon: you say that like I acknowledge the usefulness of stable releases.. ;) | 19:18 |
| SpamapS | flashgordon: all kidding aside, I don't know what to make of that page | 19:19 |
| flashgordon | I need a patch to land in devstack stable/havana | 19:19 |
| flashgordon | good news is horizon broke too so your not alone | 19:19 |
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| flashgordon | SpamapS: oh wee its the same bug http://logs.openstack.org/20/62820/4/gate/gate-tempest-dsvm-full/6a9f94a/logs/screen-h-eng.txt.gz | 19:20 |
| SpamapS | flashgordon: so unstated reqs? | 19:21 |
| SpamapS | flashgordon: is that because of keystone middleware? | 19:21 |
| flashgordon | SpamapS: ohhh good guess | 19:21 |
| SpamapS | seems likely | 19:22 |
| kfox1111 | does DeletionPolicy: Retain affect bad stacks or only completed ones? | 19:22 |
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| flashgordon | SpamapS: you are correct | 19:23 |
| SpamapS | flashgordon: fantastic. I'll take a Palomino Pony. | 19:25 |
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| kfox1111 | Are there any plans for making a type/selector for things like "volume types" "ssh keys", "security groups", etc? | 19:39 |
| kfox1111 | IE, selectors in the web ui to allow you to choose things that already exist from a drop down rather then pasting in a uuid? | 19:39 |
| kfox1111 | It would be awesome to say this param is a network uuid in the stack, | 19:40 |
| kfox1111 | and the web ui just shows me which networks I have allocated to the tenant. | 19:40 |
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| kfox1111 | Finding, then pasting 68247c45-1360-4487-bc7f-5bfe472eba58 kinda sucks. :/ | 19:41 |
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| kfox1111 | I wonder if you could use the new function plugin system to get that to work... | 19:44 |
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| kfox1111 | So, to answer my own question from before, it looks like DeletionPolicy: Retain affects volumes even when the whole stack fails to create in the first place. Kind of a pain to clean up after. | 19:45 |
| sdake | http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/14/news/economy/us-millionaires-households/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 | 19:51 |
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| sdake | There were 1.24 million households with a net worth of $5 million or more last year, up from 840,000 in 2008. Those with $25 million and above climbed to 132,000 in 2013, up from 84,000 in 2008. | 19:53 |
| sdake | "Because of their levels of wealth, they increased their exposure to equities during the downturn and were making investments in real estate when the market was at the bottom," he said. "That's why now they've benefited the most from the return in the economy." | 19:53 |
| sdake | when the market hit 7k, my uncle invested my grandparents 3 mil estate in stocks - they just recently passed and it got sold off | 19:53 |
| sdake | eveyrone thought he was crazy, but he turned that into some serious change | 19:54 |
| sdake | he did something like triple it in 4 years | 19:55 |
| sdake | my grandfather dug ditches in his career | 19:56 |
| sdake | literrly dug ditches | 19:56 |
| sdake | and ended up with ~9 mil | 19:56 |
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| randallburt | hrm. https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat-templates/+bug/1279067 doesn't smell like a bug to me stevebaker ;) | 21:37 |
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| zaneb | lol | 21:44 |
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| zaneb | randallburt: "Affects: Heat Templates" | 21:45 |
| zaneb | I don't think we have a blueprint process for templates | 21:45 |
| zaneb | oh, I lied, we do https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat-templates | 21:45 |
| randallburt | zaneb: but won't the "fix" for this live in Heat? | 21:46 |
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| zaneb | randallburt: I know as much as you do, but I assume he wouldn't have raised the bug for heat-templates unless that is where the "fix" is going to live | 21:47 |
| randallburt | zaneb: perhaps. I'll hold shenanigans for the time being ;) | 21:47 |
| zaneb | ;) | 21:47 |
| andrew_plunk | zaneb, but this is a new feature within heat right? | 21:49 |
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| andrew_plunk | a feature that was unsupported before this patch? | 21:49 |
| zaneb | well, the bug says that it's a new feature in a template in the templates repo | 21:50 |
| zaneb | that may have been a mistake | 21:50 |
| zaneb | I only know what it says | 21:50 |
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| andrew_plunk | zaneb: here is the corresponding patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70639/ | 21:52 |
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| zaneb | so it wasn't a mistake | 21:53 |
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| andrew_plunk | those are in instance scripts that make software config work with puppet | 21:54 |
| zaneb | andrew_plunk, randallburt: so y'all's objection is that this is after Feature Freeze? | 21:54 |
| andrew_plunk | that is my objection yes | 21:54 |
| zaneb | heat-templates is not part of the co-ordinated release, and therefore not subject to feature freeze | 21:55 |
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| randallburt | zaneb: not an "objection" more of a request for clarification | 21:55 |
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| randallburt | its a little misleading | 21:55 |
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| randallburt | actually, though its not about ff since those were in-flight since before FF | 21:55 |
| zaneb | randallburt: andrew_plunk -1'd the patch | 21:56 |
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| andrew_plunk | some of them were submitted just the other day | 21:56 |
| zaneb | it doesn't matter | 21:56 |
| zaneb | feature freeze is irrelevant here | 21:56 |
| zaneb | Heat is the only project in the Orchestration program subject to feature freeze | 21:56 |
| randallburt | zaneb: which is his perogative. I'm speaking for myself. So to clarify, FF only applies to the Launchpad project and not to the repository where the code lands? | 21:57 |
| zaneb | no | 21:57 |
| zaneb | FF only applies to projects that are Integrated | 21:57 |
| zaneb | which is to say, part of the co-ordinated release | 21:57 |
| randallburt | zaneb: their blueprints or their code repositories? | 21:58 |
| andrew_plunk | this code won't effect a running heat instance? | 21:58 |
| randallburt | andrew_plunk: from the looks of it, no | 21:58 |
| randallburt | unless one tries to use software_config with these elements, that is | 21:58 |
| zaneb | andrew_plunk: it's a template. how can it effect anything unless you use it? | 21:58 |
| andrew_plunk | that could be said about any resource in heat | 21:59 |
| zaneb | but this isn't in Heat | 21:59 |
| zaneb | AWS also publish templates that can be used in Heat. Should we call them up and ask them for a feature freeze also? | 22:00 |
| randallburt | zaneb: actually, I see it now. I was under the impression these were patches against the heat repository | 22:00 |
| randallburt | but I looked again and their not, so nbd. | 22:00 |
| andrew_plunk | I thought there was a hot folder in the root of heat? | 22:00 |
| randallburt | that being said, they still aren't bugs ;) | 22:00 |
| randallburt | andrew_plunk: nope | 22:01 |
| zaneb | randallburt: agreed, it should really be a blueprint against heat-templates | 22:01 |
| andrew_plunk | If it is not in the same repo as heat, it does not really bother me either | 22:02 |
| zaneb | andrew_plunk: up the top is the place to look: Projectopenstack/heat-templates | 22:03 |
| andrew_plunk | thanks zaneb. would you suggest that I remove my objection? | 22:03 |
| zaneb | yes, I think it's a little bit academic ;) | 22:03 |
| zaneb | there is a blueprint page for heat-templates, but I think I saw some tumbleweeds when I looked at it | 22:04 |
| zaneb | probably the bugs are a more visible way to track anyway | 22:04 |
| andrew_plunk | I was just trying to follow the rules. I mis-understood the rules apparently | 22:04 |
| andrew_plunk | misunderstood* | 22:05 |
| zaneb | np, you'd have been correct if it were in the Heat project | 22:05 |
| zaneb | but the rules are considerably looser for heat-templates | 22:06 |
| zaneb | (for good reason, imo) | 22:06 |
| andrew_plunk | If these in instance hooks were part of heat it would be easier to install them with heat... I am thinking about a possible agent-less feature | 22:07 |
| zaneb | andrew_plunk: sounds like a new feature ;) | 22:09 |
| andrew_plunk | yes yes I am talking about juno zaneb ;) | 22:10 |
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| zaneb | it's really hard to jam a lot of stuff into 16kB of UserData :/ | 22:11 |
| andrew_plunk | very true | 22:12 |
| andrew_plunk | some things may have to be downloaded from the internet | 22:12 |
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| andrew_plunk | does config drive deal with the same limitation zaneb? | 22:13 |
| zaneb | I don't believe so, but you guys are the experts ;) | 22:14 |
| zaneb | I thought config drive was going away though? | 22:14 |
| andrew_plunk | at Rackspace? | 22:14 |
| andrew_plunk | not to my knowledge | 22:16 |
| andrew_plunk | bbl, I have a thing with a dog to take care of... | 22:17 |
| andrew_plunk | feeding it specifically | 22:17 |
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| kfox1111 | Is there a way to attach a cinder volume by name to an instance rather then id? | 23:22 |
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