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| csatari | I've corrected the comments collected in the previous two IRC reviews: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG | 12:40 |
|---|---|---|
| csatari | In the beginning of todays meeting I would like to discuss/promote a bit the forum sessions I proposed based on our discussions. | 12:41 |
| csatari | Possible edge architectures for Keystone / https://www.openstack.org/summit/vancouver-2018/summit-schedule/events/21737/possible-edge-architectures-for-keystone / https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-edge-keystone-brainstorming | 12:43 |
| csatari | Image handling in an edge cloud infrastructure / https://www.openstack.org/summit/vancouver-2018/summit-schedule/events/21768/image-handling-in-an-edge-cloud-infrastructure | 12:46 |
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| csatari | #startmeeting Review of Dublin edge notes 03 | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Fri May 11 13:00:40 2018 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is csatari. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'review_of_dublin_edge_notes_03' | 13:00 |
| csatari | Hi | 13:00 |
| esarault | Mornin' | 13:00 |
| csatari | #topic Roll Call | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:01 | |
| esarault | #info Eric Sarault - eric.sarault@kontron.com | 13:01 |
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| csatari | #info Gergely Csatari - gergely.csatari@nokia.com | 13:01 |
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| vrv_ | #info Vishnu Ram - vishnu.n@ieee.org | 13:02 |
| ianychoi | csatari, hello! I am just interested in here and watching your meeting :) | 13:02 |
| csatari | welcome | 13:02 |
| ianychoi | Thank u :) | 13:03 |
| csatari | Let's wait 2 more mins. I have ~5 accepted responses to the meeting invite. | 13:04 |
| * esarault runs to grab a coffee | 13:04 | |
| csatari | #topic Vancouver forum sessions | 13:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver forum sessions (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:05 | |
| * esarault is back | 13:06 | |
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| csatari | We will have two forum sessions in Vancouver related to edge requirements vs OpenStack projects. | 13:06 |
| esarault | Are the times and dates set? | 13:07 |
| csatari | #info Possible edge architectures for Keystone: Tuesday, May 22, 11:00am-11:40am - Room 224 | 13:07 |
| csatari | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/vancouver-2018/summit-schedule/events/21737/possible-edge-architectures-for-keystone | 13:08 |
| csatari | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-edge-keystone-brainstorming | 13:08 |
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| csatari | Please review the disucssion topics in the etherpad and add your own. | 13:08 |
| csatari | #action All to check the forum etherpads. | 13:09 |
| csatari | And the other one is | 13:09 |
| csatari | #info Image handling in an edge cloud infrastructure: Tuesday, May 22, 9:00am-10:30am - Room 221-222 | 13:10 |
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| csatari | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/vancouver-2018/summit-schedule/events/21768/image-handling-in-an-edge-cloud-infrastructure | 13:10 |
| csatari | This one has no etherpad yet. | 13:10 |
| csatari | #action csatari to add an etherpad to the Image handling session and/or discuss with Erno Kuvaja | 13:11 |
| csatari | This is the two Forum sessions I remember on the topic. | 13:12 |
| csatari | #topic Correction of previous comments | 13:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Correction of previous comments (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:12 | |
| csatari | #info I've corrected the comments received in the previous meetings. | 13:12 |
| csatari | Okay | 13:13 |
| csatari | Let's jump to the review part. | 13:13 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Due to a Zuul outage, patches uploaded to Gerrit between 09:00UTC and 12:50UTC, were not properly added to Zuul. Please recheck any patches during this window and apologies for the inconvenience. | 13:14 | |
| csatari | #topic Review of 5.2.2.7 Administration features | 13:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of 5.2.2.7 Administration features (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:14 | |
| csatari | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Administration_features | 13:14 |
| csatari | Does anyone know what is an rsc? | 13:14 |
| csatari | I copyed this from an therpad, but I have no idea what is it. | 13:15 |
| csatari | #action (5.2.2.7) csatari to figure out what an rsc is. | 13:16 |
| esarault | The only think i can think of is rack scale compute or something around that | 13:16 |
| esarault | a bare metal is a bare metal, can't get more basic than that | 13:17 |
| csatari | :) | 13:17 |
| csatari | Agreed | 13:17 |
| csatari | Any other comments to this section? | 13:17 |
| esarault | Negative | 13:18 |
| vrv_ | remote site controller i think | 13:18 |
| csatari | #topic Review of 5.2.2.8 Multiple cloud stacks | 13:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of 5.2.2.8 Multiple cloud stacks (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:18 | |
| csatari | Thanks vrv_ | 13:18 |
| csatari | I will run a google search to double check it :) | 13:19 |
| csatari | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Multiple_cloud_stacks | 13:19 |
| csatari | #action (5.2.2.8) csatari to correct typo "instancesand" | 13:20 |
| csatari | Any comments to thie section? | 13:20 |
| esarault | Any targeted versions? | 13:20 |
| csatari | s/thie/this/ | 13:20 |
| esarault | 1.10 and Queens? | 13:20 |
| csatari | It would be too optimistic to talk about targeted versions I think :) | 13:21 |
| esarault | Here's assuming there's a line int he sand that needs to be drawn with the K8S 3-month release cycle | 13:21 |
| esarault | Given we're look at a 12 month update window at best for some fo the use cases | 13:21 |
| esarault | *looking | 13:21 |
| csatari | Should we build this limitation to the solution? | 13:22 |
| esarault | Not sure | 13:23 |
| esarault | Just wondering how that'll impact the upgrade process | 13:23 |
| csatari | I think it should be the edge cloud infrastructure administrators decision how close they would like to follow the new releases of their components. | 13:23 |
| esarault | True, it shouldn'T be built in | 13:24 |
| * ildikov is sneaking in to the room and lurking :) | 13:24 | |
| esarault | but then how do you ensure that capability remains viable when upgrading | 13:24 |
| esarault | Last thing they'll want to here is "Process update and good luck mate!" | 13:24 |
| csatari | The how we do not know yet. | 13:24 |
| esarault | *hear | 13:24 |
| esarault | Gotcha | 13:24 |
| csatari | Here the requirement is that the edge cloud infrastructure should work with non homogenous versions in the edge cloud instances. | 13:25 |
| csatari | The how we will figure out later ;) | 13:25 |
| esarault | And that's perfect. Dug into the details, my mistake :) | 13:25 |
| csatari | This part is about what do we want to solve and what not. | 13:26 |
| csatari | Okay | 13:26 |
| csatari | moving on then | 13:27 |
| csatari | #topic Review of 5.2.2.9 Multi operator scenarios | 13:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of 5.2.2.9 Multi operator scenarios (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:27 | |
| csatari | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OpenStack_Edge_Discussions_Dublin_PTG#Multi_operator_scenarios | 13:27 |
| csatari | In general I have a feeling that this section is a bit raw. | 13:28 |
| esarault | Yeah the content is light for the heavily implication it has | 13:29 |
| esarault | Connectivity should be a seperate sub-section and not under secuirty IMO | 13:29 |
| esarault | Connectivity is a rabbit hole all by itself | 13:29 |
| csatari | :) | 13:29 |
| csatari | This is about securing the communication of the VM-s/containers of one app. | 13:30 |
| vrv_ | newbie question: is federation for auth in scope of this? | 13:30 |
| csatari | vrv_: You mean that the user data is synched, so the same credentials can be used in all edge cloud instances? | 13:31 |
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| vrv_ | I didnt think that far, I was wondering such mechanisms could be discussed under this or not. | 13:32 |
| csatari | This is implicitly part of 5.2.2.2 Use of a remote site | 13:32 |
| csatari | Where we say this "Credentials are only present on the original site " | 13:32 |
| vrv_ | Okay, is that true for multi-operator scenarios too? | 13:33 |
| csatari | I think yes. | 13:33 |
| esarault | Are we saying each edge site has its own controllers for OpenStack and K8s? What if an operator wants to control multiple edge locations nearby out of one region and have a backup site within that "geo" to cut down on orchestration cost and have more compute resources available. You might have a site that has K8S and another site within the same "geo" that has OpenStack? | 13:33 |
| csatari | esarault: Yes, the idea is every edge cloud instance is a full OpenStack or Kubernetes instance. | 13:35 |
| csatari | The 2nd part of the question I could not get. | 13:35 |
| esarault | Train of thought is | 13:35 |
| esarault | and this comes from dealing with customers building 5G networks now | 13:35 |
| esarault | The issue at the base of radio towers and such as cabinet space | 13:36 |
| esarault | Some dont have more than 4-8U | 13:36 |
| esarault | So if you take half of that for orchestrators | 13:36 |
| esarault | that significantly reduce the amount of VNFs you can run there | 13:36 |
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| csatari | We should not use half of that for the control pane. | 13:36 |
| esarault | Depedns the hardware they have | 13:37 |
| esarault | if you go with COTS, it'll be hard | 13:37 |
| esarault | This means you'll need tailored hardware to run in those sites | 13:37 |
| vrv_ | I agree with that train of thought. | 13:37 |
| csatari | Or | 13:37 |
| csatari | We should be able to scale down OpenStack and Kubernetes to a reasonable scale. | 13:37 |
| esarault | Oh that would be lovely | 13:38 |
| esarault | Best example I can give is Wind River TitaniumM Cloud | 13:38 |
| esarault | For it to be considered at every site | 13:38 |
| esarault | It would need to shrink down to Titanium Cloud Edge/Edge SX type of scale | 13:38 |
| esarault | 1 or 2 servers max to run OpenStack | 13:38 |
| esarault | So we should definitely look at what'll be in Akraino Release A | 13:38 |
| esarault | Because that's the use case I'm seeing asked from 5G deployers right now | 13:39 |
| esarault | Shrinking that footprint for the orchestration is definitely the ideal solution here | 13:39 |
| esarault | But then how do you monitor all those sites into one single window pane? | 13:40 |
| parus | Aren't there single server instances of Openstack running today? | 13:40 |
| csatari | Well I've sent you some Nokia marketing privately. | 13:41 |
| csatari | Back to business. I feel that we should formulate some non funcitional requirements. | 13:41 |
| csatari | I add an open question to the wiki about this, as this needs more discussion. | 13:42 |
| csatari | #action csatari Add a question to the wiki "What should be the sice of the all the OpenStack components in the different edge deployment scenarios in terms of CPU, memory, disk and hardware units". | 13:43 |
| csatari | Is this ok? | 13:43 |
| esarault | Looks good | 13:44 |
| csatari | Cool | 13:44 |
| esarault | My point is, not all those sites have 36" depth capability | 13:44 |
| csatari | Should we add this as a note to the Small edge chapter/ | 13:45 |
| csatari | ? | 13:45 |
| esarault | Yes that owuld be a good idea | 13:46 |
| esarault | I've seen requirements as small as 12" depth | 13:46 |
| csatari | #action (4.1) csatari add a note, that not all those sites have 36" depth capability, some even have only 12'' depth | 13:46 |
| parus | How can we relate depth to compute/storage resources? | 13:47 |
| parus | I suspect 12" means you would have one third of the capacity compared to 36". right? | 13:47 |
| esarault | It's more the type of processor and the amount of drives you can put there | 13:48 |
| esarault | With 12", you'll get two ARM or Xeon-D type processor | 13:48 |
| esarault | 4DIMM memmory at best | 13:48 |
| esarault | with 2x 2.5" if lucky | 13:48 |
| esarault | probably 2x M.2 SSD instead | 13:48 |
| esarault | Where as 36" you'll be able to get Xeon Scalable or AMD EPYCs with crazy storage and I/O | 13:49 |
| parus | That is great info... Why don't we express it this way? I hear there is a lot of interest in ARM today ... especially at the edge. | 13:50 |
| esarault | Problem is with "Edge washing" they get blended in the same smoothy and this means you'll always have a piece of the edge story that won't be covered | 13:50 |
| esarault | The challenge with ARM is the ecosystem | 13:51 |
| csatari | #action (4.1) csatari to add the hardware related info to the Deployment Scenarios. | 13:51 |
| csatari | Any (more) comments to 5.2.2.9? | 13:51 |
| esarault | No, all good, we're diverging form the meeting purpose here I believe :) | 13:51 |
| csatari | I would like to add a note, that the section is still under work or someting, but it is true to the whole wiki.... | 13:52 |
| csatari | Yes, a bit. | 13:52 |
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| csatari | But it is an interesting discussion ;) | 13:52 |
| esarault | I afgree :) | 13:52 |
| parus | Is there a need to include the operator name in the descriptor of the edge node? | 13:54 |
| csatari | I will add some text to 5.2.2.9 saying that it is even more draft then the other parts of the page. | 13:54 |
| csatari | parus: I do not think. | 13:54 |
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| csatari | what we need is an unique ID of everu edge cloud instance in the edge cloud infra and an unique id for every node in the edge cloud instance. | 13:55 |
| parus | Then somewhere central, we would need to map ID to operator. | 13:55 |
| csatari | #action (5.2.2.9) csatari add a text to the chapter saying that it is even more draft then the other parts of the page. | 13:56 |
| csatari | #topic Vancouver edge computing group gathering | 13:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver edge computing group gathering (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:56 | |
| parus | csatari: can we make a note that operator to Edg ID mapping needs consideration. | 13:56 |
| csatari | Do youhave any willingness to have an ad hoc meeting in vancouver? | 13:57 |
| csatari | parus: Sure, we can. | 13:57 |
| esarault | Sure thing | 13:57 |
| csatari | Which chapter? | 13:57 |
| parus | 5.2.2.9 | 13:57 |
| csatari | I will create a doodle for us. | 13:57 |
| parus | csatari: I would like to join. | 13:58 |
| csatari | #action (5.2.2.9) csatari to add a note that operator to Edge ID mapping needs consideration. | 13:58 |
| csatari | #action csatari to create a Doodle for a(not that) ad hoc edge computing group gatering in vancouver | 13:58 |
| csatari | #topic Next steps | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next steps (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes 03)" | 13:59 | |
| csatari | #info we will continue from 5.3 Requirements | 13:59 |
| csatari | #action csatari to organize the next meeting. | 13:59 |
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| parus | csatari: Thanks for leading this discussion !!! Great Job ! | 13:59 |
| csatari | Thanks for the discussion. | 13:59 |
| esarault | Thanks for organizing this csatari! | 14:00 |
| csatari | Thanks parus | 14:00 |
| vrv_ | thanks | 14:00 |
| esarault | Looking forward to see you guys in Vancouver | 14:00 |
| csatari | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Finishing up (Meeting topic: Review of Dublin edge notes II)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri May 11 14:00:23 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_03/2018/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_03.2018-05-11-13.00.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_03/2018/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_03.2018-05-11-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_03/2018/review_of_dublin_edge_notes_03.2018-05-11-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
| csatari | See you. | 14:00 |
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